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Author Topic: Anyone know what happened to knightmb and his 371,000 BTC?  (Read 50505 times)
Anonymous
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April 30, 2011, 12:32:48 AM
#1

https://www.bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=564.0;attach=167

https://www.bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=564.0

Last Active:    December 31, 2010, 12:21:02 pm

That was a whole bunch of bitcoins. MIA 4 months. Last posts were all the way from August. Wonder if he knows he has a million dollars.

371,067.36 BTC @ 2.95 = $1,094,648.71
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April 30, 2011, 12:34:32 AM
#2

Holy mother...

He's gonna have a nice surprise when he comes back then.

And he had a nice production rate too!  15k MH/s?  Dang...

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April 30, 2011, 12:45:46 AM
#3

https://www.bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=564.0;attach=167

https://www.bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=564.0

Last Active:    December 31, 2010, 12:21:02 pm

That was a whole bunch of bitcoins. MIA 4 months. Last posts were all the way from August. Wonder if he knows he has a million dollars.

371,067.36 BTC @ 2.95 = $1,094,648.71



Well, doesn't quite have $1M, since if he actually tried to sell them, he'd drive the price down to like $.25/BTC.
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April 30, 2011, 12:52:29 AM
#4

I was wondering the same thing.  I sent him a PM a while back but no response.  I think he wants to keep his identity a secret.
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April 30, 2011, 09:09:12 AM
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I think he wants to keep his identity a secret.

If so he hasn't done a very good job.

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April 30, 2011, 09:37:34 AM
#6

Holy mother...

He's gonna have a nice surprise when he comes back then.

And he had a nice production rate too!  15k MH/s?  Dang...

I believe it shows 15 MH/s

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April 30, 2011, 10:00:20 AM
#7

Well, doesn't quite have $1M, since if he actually tried to sell them, he'd drive the price down to like $.25/BTC.

Probably lower than that.

Only fool would sell 350+ kBTC in one day...
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April 30, 2011, 02:01:18 PM
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https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=564.0;attach=167

https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=564.0

Last Active:    December 31, 2010, 12:21:02 pm

That was a whole bunch of bitcoins. MIA 4 months. Last posts were all the way from August. Wonder if he knows he has a million dollars.

371,067.36 BTC @ 2.95 = $1,094,648.71



Well, doesn't quite have $1M, since if he actually tried to sell them, he'd drive the price down to like $.25/BTC.

Perhaps, though I think yesterday MtGox did close to 160k in volume, with the price continuing to rise.  Perhaps he could dump a significant percentage of his holdings over a week's time...
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April 30, 2011, 02:13:33 PM
#9

He could slowly unload like 500-1000 a week and essentially give himself a decent paycheck
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April 30, 2011, 03:05:40 PM
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He could slowly unload like 500-1000 a week and essentially give himself a decent paycheck

Or he can wait a year and a half and be in the Forbes list of billionaires Smiley
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April 30, 2011, 03:20:06 PM
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He could slowly unload like 500-1000 a week and essentially give himself a decent paycheck

Or he can wait a year and a half and be in the Forbes list of billionaires Smiley

If he is a billionaire in a year in a half he will need to reside away from us jurisdiction and diplomatic influence or at least keep his fortune secret through offshore accounts.     By the time market value of btc represents $100 billion the us will have realized the threat btc represents to usd.
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April 30, 2011, 04:59:55 PM
#12

He could slowly unload like 500-1000 a week and essentially give himself a decent paycheck

Or he can wait a year and a half and be in the Forbes list of billionaires Smiley

If he is a billionaire in a year in a half he will need to reside away from us jurisdiction and diplomatic influence or at least keep his fortune secret through offshore accounts.     By the time market value of btc represents $100 billion the us will have realized the threat btc represents to usd.

And then there will be more than just one btc millionaire missing.
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April 30, 2011, 05:12:50 PM
#13

What if he died in a car accident? Whole economy has 370kBTC less...
But if he's alive, I'm pretty sure that he sold most of his bitcoins already.
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April 30, 2011, 06:49:25 PM
#14

Holy mother...

He's gonna have a nice surprise when he comes back then.

And he had a nice production rate too!  15k MH/s?  Dang...

I believe it shows 15 MH/s
Don't mind me, I'm just failing miserably here...

What if he died in a car accident? Whole economy has 370kBTC less...
But if he's alive, I'm pretty sure that he sold most of his bitcoins already.
Lol, or his computer crashed and he's still raging about it.


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April 30, 2011, 07:31:41 PM
#15

I'm pretty sure he switched his nick and he's still among us.

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April 30, 2011, 10:58:51 PM
#16

Oh, I'm still alive and kicking.  Grin

Yeah, still have them, though like was said, it would not be possible to sell them all at once and become an instant millionaire.  No one is going to buy that many at once. I have kept my client running 24/7 since then though, managed to generate a bit more before the collective mining groups took over  Wink

Without the massive server farm I had going before, I'm just down to my personal desktop, so it's never gotten over the 371k since.

I do keep many, many backups though just in case  Cool

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April 30, 2011, 11:04:46 PM
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Oh, I'm still alive and kicking.  Grin

Yeah, still have them, though like was said, it would not be possible to sell them all at once and become an instant millionaire.  No one is going to buy that many at once. I have kept my client running 24/7 since then though, managed to generate a bit more before the collective mining groups took over  Wink

Without the massive server farm I had going before, I'm just down to my personal desktop, so it's never gotten over the 371k since.

I do keep many, many backups though just in case  Cool
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April 30, 2011, 11:33:49 PM
#18

Oh, I'm still alive and kicking.  Grin

Can you explain how it feels to be a potential billionaire? Do you plan to buy a ticket to ISS? Smiley
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May 01, 2011, 05:21:22 AM
#19

You should probably consider setting up some sort of arrangement in case you die, perhaps setting up some sort of geekier version of the Nobel prize?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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May 01, 2011, 05:29:21 AM
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You should probably consider setting up some sort of arrangement in case you die, perhaps setting up some sort of geekier version of the Nobel prize?


How about the X Prize for Immortality?

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May 01, 2011, 06:14:40 AM
#21

They've already cured aging in lab mice, so that actually isn't all that farfetched...

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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May 01, 2011, 06:20:48 AM
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They've already cured aging in lab mice, so that actually isn't all that farfetched...


Kind to elaborate what this mean?

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May 01, 2011, 06:28:48 AM
#23

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-11/harvard-creates-mice-grow-younger-which-could-lead-human-anti-aging-treatments

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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May 01, 2011, 06:34:59 AM
#24

wow... this thread derailed
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May 01, 2011, 06:52:50 AM
#25

Can you explain how it feels to be a potential billionaire?

Yes, I can. Everyone is a potential Billionaire, with or without Bitcoins.
It feels good!   Grin

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May 01, 2011, 07:23:07 AM
#26

Are people who are actual billionaires also potentional billionaires?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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May 01, 2011, 08:32:18 AM
#27


knightmb:

How much?

PM me if you want to move large amounts.

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May 01, 2011, 02:19:28 PM
#28

Oh, I'm still alive and kicking.  Grin

Yeah, still have them, though like was said, it would not be possible to sell them all at once and become an instant millionaire.  No one is going to buy that many at once. I have kept my client running 24/7 since then though, managed to generate a bit more before the collective mining groups took over  Wink

Without the massive server farm I had going before, I'm just down to my personal desktop, so it's never gotten over the 371k since.

I do keep many, many backups though just in case  Cool

from someone who has alot of btc to lose from a hacker; do u keep a separate client and wallet online with minimal to no btc in it?  if so, how do i split off a separate wallet as well?
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May 02, 2011, 03:00:46 PM
#29

Oh, I'm still alive and kicking.  Grin

Yeah, still have them, though like was said, it would not be possible to sell them all at once and become an instant millionaire.  No one is going to buy that many at once. I have kept my client running 24/7 since then though, managed to generate a bit more before the collective mining groups took over  Wink

Without the massive server farm I had going before, I'm just down to my personal desktop, so it's never gotten over the 371k since.

I do keep many, many backups though just in case  Cool

from someone who has alot of btc to lose from a hacker; do u keep a separate client and wallet online with minimal to no btc in it?  if so, how do i split off a separate wallet as well?

Yes, the wallet file sits a (2) CD-R and (1) flash drive (was just curious how long that flash drive would stay good) in a safe deposit box at the local bank.  The wallet file on my PC is not the same one that has all the BTC in it for security reasons.  Wink

While it is fun to fantasize about being rich, I know realistically, the BTC would work better as a monthly paycheck than a lotto ticket.

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May 02, 2011, 03:01:52 PM
#30

You should probably consider setting up some sort of arrangement in case you die, perhaps setting up some sort of geekier version of the Nobel prize?
Well, I do actually, but it would end up going to family members. I don't know if I would have enough to setup something as large as the Nobel prize unless it really did turn into a billions of value.

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May 02, 2011, 03:04:03 PM
#31


knightmb:

How much?

PM me if you want to move large amounts.

Hehe  Grin

It's just going to sit at the bank for now until the investors decide what to do with it. The irony is, they think the project is a bust, so I've requested to take over ownership of it but never mentioned anything about it's current value because they have never bothered to check since last year. Can you believe all the "smart business" people that told them that BTC was just a waste of time for them? Shows how smart they were.

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May 02, 2011, 03:09:27 PM
#32

Putting on 2 CD-R and Flash doesn't seem to be enough for 300,000K bitcoins.  Maybe you can tease us by encrypting the wallet with TrueCrypt, give it a 20 char password, and post it here.  You can be sure the wallet will continue to exist on the Internet and it will be safe.
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May 02, 2011, 03:27:57 PM
#33

I also just thought about that. Or not public but for some people only.
Backups should not be close to each other physically. I think it is risky.

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May 02, 2011, 04:20:59 PM
#34

You could always send me a copy... I'll keep it nice and safe for you.  Cheesy

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May 02, 2011, 04:45:42 PM
#35

Oh, I'm still alive and kicking.  Grin

Yeah, still have them, though like was said, it would not be possible to sell them all at once and become an instant millionaire.  No one is going to buy that many at once. I have kept my client running 24/7 since then though, managed to generate a bit more before the collective mining groups took over  Wink

Without the massive server farm I had going before, I'm just down to my personal desktop, so it's never gotten over the 371k since.

I do keep many, many backups though just in case  Cool

from someone who has alot of btc to lose from a hacker; do u keep a separate client and wallet online with minimal to no btc in it?  if so, how do i split off a separate wallet as well?

Yes, the wallet file sits a (2) CD-R and (1) flash drive (was just curious how long that flash drive would stay good) in a safe deposit box at the local bank.  The wallet file on my PC is not the same one that has all the BTC in it for security reasons.  Wink

While it is fun to fantasize about being rich, I know realistically, the BTC would work better as a monthly paycheck than a lotto ticket.

how does one create a 2nd wallet for spending?
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May 02, 2011, 04:47:40 PM
#36

Oh, I'm still alive and kicking.  Grin

Yeah, still have them, though like was said, it would not be possible to sell them all at once and become an instant millionaire.  No one is going to buy that many at once. I have kept my client running 24/7 since then though, managed to generate a bit more before the collective mining groups took over  Wink

Without the massive server farm I had going before, I'm just down to my personal desktop, so it's never gotten over the 371k since.

I do keep many, many backups though just in case  Cool

from someone who has alot of btc to lose from a hacker; do u keep a separate client and wallet online with minimal to no btc in it?  if so, how do i split off a separate wallet as well?

Yes, the wallet file sits a (2) CD-R and (1) flash drive (was just curious how long that flash drive would stay good) in a safe deposit box at the local bank.  The wallet file on my PC is not the same one that has all the BTC in it for security reasons.  Wink

While it is fun to fantasize about being rich, I know realistically, the BTC would work better as a monthly paycheck than a lotto ticket.

what about updating those wallets?  doesn't this have to be done from time to time?
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May 02, 2011, 08:05:31 PM
#37



how does one create a 2nd wallet for spending?

If you move wallet.dat out of it's folder a new empty wallet is created automatically.

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May 02, 2011, 08:27:00 PM
#38



how does one create a 2nd wallet for spending?

If you move wallet.dat out of it's folder a new empty wallet is created automatically.

but then u can't send btc to that 2nd wallet from the 1st wallet on the same computer.  my goal is to save the majority of my btc on a flash drive in my safe and not have to pull it out for several months.  then i'd have a 2nd wallet with spending money on my computer.   should i just send the btc to a client on another computer?  is the wallet.dat file interchangeable btwn mac and pc clients?
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May 02, 2011, 11:57:58 PM
#39



how does one create a 2nd wallet for spending?

If you move wallet.dat out of it's folder a new empty wallet is created automatically.

but then u can't send btc to that 2nd wallet from the 1st wallet on the same computer. 
You can, by very careful file renaming while the Bitcoin client is closed.  I wouldn't make a habit of it though, doing it only as necessary.  Some people say they've made custom tools to help with easy wallet-switching, but I don't know if any of them have been released publicly.
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May 03, 2011, 12:44:52 AM
#40

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

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May 03, 2011, 12:53:40 AM
#41


I'm not sure that safe deposit at the bank is such a good idea given the rate of collapse of the banks these days. Sometimes Federal rules have been know to over-ride the custody agreements involved with safe-deposit boxes and customers lose everything inside them.

Might be better off in vault at a private security company or something. Or if you have the option, in a safe under your own control. Banks are too heavily regulated by the govt. to trust that anybody knows what will happen when they lock their doors, even the best lawyers in town couldn't tell you definitely where you stand.

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May 03, 2011, 01:03:36 AM
#42

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

I wouldn't trust a CD-R, they are not designed to last that long.  I'd much more likely put it in some service that backs things up with tape every night or has huge redundancy.  Having it physically sit somewhere is silly.  If anything, put a note in a safe deposit box with your encryption key and the location where it's at.  Put it stored electronically with a few different companies.
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May 03, 2011, 01:08:18 AM
#43

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

I wouldn't trust a CD-R, they are not designed to last that long.  I'd much more likely put it in some service that backs things up with tape every night or has huge redundancy.  Having it physically sit somewhere is silly.  If anything, put a note in a safe deposit box with your encryption key and the location where it's at.  Put it stored electronically with a few different companies.

The problem with creating many back-ups is that every back-up copy must be ultimately deletable, down to the bits deletable or wiped, or else you leave it open for reading by disc recovery means and it can get stolen.

Yes back-up but not too much and carefully or else there will be lots of copies of your wallet floating around all over the place waiting to be discovered by some disc recovery software.

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May 03, 2011, 01:18:37 AM
#44

Leave a copy with your will at your lawyers office Smiley
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May 03, 2011, 03:31:33 AM
#45

Leave a copy with your will at your lawyers office Smiley

That makes about as much sense as leaving a billion dollars cash with a lawyer. Sheeesh, of all the people to trust, why not just let a congressman hold onto it.

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May 03, 2011, 08:19:49 AM
#46

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

this strategy intrigues me the most.  what you're basically saying is that if i have a million btc in my wallet today i could send 999,999 of them to one of my receiving addresses right now but before i receive them i can close the btc client, disconnect my computer from the internet, back up my wallet.dat and encrypt it, go and stick multiple copies of it everywhere,but the bottom line is that all 999,999 btc will be stored in the block chain out on the network ready and waiting for me to download them to my wallet.dat when i want to recover them in 10 yrs or so.  is that about right?  yes or no answers please.
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May 03, 2011, 08:55:32 AM
#47

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

this strategy intrigues me the most.  what you're basically saying is that if i have a million btc in my wallet today i could send 999,999 of them to one of my receiving addresses right now but before i receive them i can close the btc client, disconnect my computer from the internet, back up my wallet.dat and encrypt it, go and stick multiple copies of it everywhere,but the bottom line is that all 999,999 btc will be stored in the block chain out on the network ready and waiting for me to download them to my wallet.dat when i want to recover them in 10 yrs or so.  is that about right?  yes or no answers please.

Yep.

Get 1M coins.
Get another computer.
Load Bitcoin on it. Do not connect to internet. Do not download blocks.
Write down an address from this wallet.
Encrypt wallet. Delete original.
Send coins to the address.
Wait.....
Unencrypt. Spend.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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May 03, 2011, 08:56:04 AM
#48

yes,

Bitcoin is that awesome!


so why'd the hell did u write that long backup piece and then have the nerve to ask for donations? Cheesy  this would seem to be the best, non hassle, easiest strategy of all.  forget the USB flash drives, holes in the ground, beds, po boxes, friends, wills, lawyers, safes, vaults, Truecrypt, 7zip, archives, keyloggers, media cards, email attachments.  why do we keep self flaggelating ourselves about this topic.  If btc survives you're a billionaire, if it crashes, all those btc's in cyberspace aren't worth beans anyways. Undecided
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May 03, 2011, 09:05:06 AM
#49

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

this strategy intrigues me the most.  what you're basically saying is that if i have a million btc in my wallet today i could send 999,999 of them to one of my receiving addresses right now but before i receive them i can close the btc client, disconnect my computer from the internet, back up my wallet.dat and encrypt it, go and stick multiple copies of it everywhere,but the bottom line is that all 999,999 btc will be stored in the block chain out on the network ready and waiting for me to download them to my wallet.dat when i want to recover them in 10 yrs or so.  is that about right?  yes or no answers please.

Yep.

WAIT A MINUTE!

Get 1M coins. ON COMPUTER #1?
Get another computer.  ON COMPUTER #2?
Load Bitcoin on it. ON COMPUTER #2?  Do not connect to internet. Do not download blocks.  ONTO COMPUTER #2?
Write down an address from this wallet. FROM COMPUTER #2?
Encrypt wallet. Delete original.  AGAIN ON COMPUTER #2?
Send coins to the address. FROM COMPUTER #1?
Wait.....
Unencrypt. FROM COMPUTER #2?  Spend.  FROM WHICH COMPUTER?
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May 03, 2011, 09:14:40 AM
#50

yes,

Bitcoin is that awesome!


so why'd the hell did u write that long backup piece and then have the nerve to ask for donations? Cheesy  this would seem to be the best, non hassle, easiest strategy of all.  forget the USB flash drives, holes in the ground, beds, po boxes, friends, wills, lawyers, safes, vaults, Truecrypt, 7zip, archives, keyloggers, media cards, email attachments.  why do we keep self flaggelating ourselves about this topic.  If btc survives you're a billionaire, if it crashes, all those btc's in cyberspace aren't worth beans anyways. Undecided

Why not?

nah, just joking with you!!  see smiley face?
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May 03, 2011, 09:18:30 AM
#51

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

this strategy intrigues me the most.  what you're basically saying is that if i have a million btc in my wallet today i could send 999,999 of them to one of my receiving addresses right now but before i receive them i can close the btc client, disconnect my computer from the internet, back up my wallet.dat and encrypt it, go and stick multiple copies of it everywhere,but the bottom line is that all 999,999 btc will be stored in the block chain out on the network ready and waiting for me to download them to my wallet.dat when i want to recover them in 10 yrs or so.  is that about right?  yes or no answers please.

Yep.

Get 1M coins.
Get another computer.
Load Bitcoin on it. Do not connect to internet. Do not download blocks.
Write down an address from this wallet.
Encrypt wallet. Delete original.
Send coins to the address.
Wait.....
Unencrypt. Spend.

are you saying this is a way to double spend?
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May 03, 2011, 09:27:19 AM
#52

this strategy intrigues me the most.  what you're basically saying is that if i have a million btc in my wallet today i could send 999,999 of them to one of my receiving addresses right now but before i receive them i can close the btc client, disconnect my computer from the internet, back up my wallet.dat and encrypt it, go and stick multiple copies of it everywhere,but the bottom line is that all 999,999 btc will be stored in the block chain out on the network ready and waiting for me to download them to my wallet.dat when i want to recover them in 10 yrs or so.  is that about right?  yes or no answers please.

Yep.

Get 1M coins.
Get another computer.
Load Bitcoin on it. Do not connect to internet. Do not download blocks.
Write down an address from this wallet.
Encrypt wallet. Delete original.
Send coins to the address.
Wait.....
Unencrypt. Spend.

are you saying this is a way to double spend?
Nope, they're saying that a wallet doesn't need to be online to send bitcoins to it :-)

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May 03, 2011, 09:36:20 AM
#53

this strategy intrigues me the most.  what you're basically saying is that if i have a million btc in my wallet today i could send 999,999 of them to one of my receiving addresses right now but before i receive them i can close the btc client, disconnect my computer from the internet, back up my wallet.dat and encrypt it, go and stick multiple copies of it everywhere,but the bottom line is that all 999,999 btc will be stored in the block chain out on the network ready and waiting for me to download them to my wallet.dat when i want to recover them in 10 yrs or so.  is that about right?  yes or no answers please.

Yep.

Get 1M coins.
Get another computer.
Load Bitcoin on it. Do not connect to internet. Do not download blocks.
Write down an address from this wallet.
Encrypt wallet. Delete original.
Send coins to the address.
Wait.....
Unencrypt. Spend.

are you saying this is a way to double spend?
Nope, they're saying that a wallet doesn't need to be online to send bitcoins to it :-)

ok, i get it.  takes me alittle while sometimes.  basically he was stating the same thing i was about storing your btc in the block chain in the network except he is saying you can send ALL of them up there and use a different wallet.  and theoretically you can wait an infinite time if btc survives.  have any of you had the  balls to save your btc this way?
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May 03, 2011, 09:58:34 AM
#54

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

this strategy intrigues me the most.  what you're basically saying is that if i have a million btc in my wallet today i could send 999,999 of them to one of my receiving addresses right now but before i receive them i can close the btc client, disconnect my computer from the internet, back up my wallet.dat and encrypt it, go and stick multiple copies of it everywhere,but the bottom line is that all 999,999 btc will be stored in the block chain out on the network ready and waiting for me to download them to my wallet.dat when i want to recover them in 10 yrs or so.  is that about right?  yes or no answers please.

Yep.

Get 1M coins.
Get another computer.
Load Bitcoin on it. Do not connect to internet. Do not download blocks.
Write down an address from this wallet.
Encrypt wallet. Delete original.
Send coins to the address.
Wait.....
Unencrypt. Spend.

are you saying this is a way to double spend?

Nope. Just restating the coolness.

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May 03, 2011, 12:59:32 PM
#55

ok, i get it.  takes me alittle while sometimes.  basically he was stating the same thing i was about storing your btc in the block chain in the network except he is saying you can send ALL of them up there and use a different wallet.  and theoretically you can wait an infinite time if btc survives.  have any of you had the  balls to save your btc this way?
With 999,999 BTC? Not just "no", but "heck, no"! I've not actually tried it with toy money, either, though I've always assumed it's (a) possible, and (b) very cool ;-) Might give it a go later - but with 0.00999999 BTC, not 999,999 BTC...

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May 03, 2011, 01:59:31 PM
#56

but then u can't send btc to that 2nd wallet from the 1st wallet on the same computer.
 my goal is to save the majority of my btc on a flash drive in my safe and not have to pull it out for several months.  then i'd have a 2nd wallet with spending money on my computer.   should i just send the btc to a client on another computer?  is the wallet.dat file interchangeable btwn mac and pc clients?

just use multiple accounts to send between them, each user have wallet created in different place

flash drive is not good idea, if it fails there is small chance of recovery of wallet, backup on 3-4 different mediums and two locations is minimum that you have to do to be safe

personally i have backup of savings wallet on three separate disks in my pc (all with full disk encryption) and copy on external drive and attachment on email account

after i found out that my bitcoins are worth over 6k usd i added dvd-ram, microsd card and base64 copy printed on laser printer on another location

all of course with heavy encryption Tongue i know it is a bit paranoid, but different mediums at different locations is a must have for long term backup
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May 03, 2011, 03:30:31 PM
#57

but then u can't send btc to that 2nd wallet from the 1st wallet on the same computer.
 my goal is to save the majority of my btc on a flash drive in my safe and not have to pull it out for several months.  then i'd have a 2nd wallet with spending money on my computer.   should i just send the btc to a client on another computer?  is the wallet.dat file interchangeable btwn mac and pc clients?

just use multiple accounts to send between them, each user have wallet created in different place

flash drive is not good idea, if it fails there is small chance of recovery of wallet, backup on 3-4 different mediums and two locations is minimum that you have to do to be safe

personally i have backup of savings wallet on three separate disks in my pc (all with full disk encryption) and copy on external drive and attachment on email account

after i found out that my bitcoins are worth over 6k usd i added dvd-ram, microsd card and base64 copy printed on laser printer on another location

all of course with heavy encryption Tongue i know it is a bit paranoid, but different medium, different location is a must have for long term backup
A printed copy isn't a bad idea either... I mean, heck, you can always OCR it back in, and convert it from whatever base you put it in.  And if the OCR fails, you could hand-type it all.  It'd probably be worth whatever is in your wallet at that point...

Just in case all your electronic media fails.

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May 03, 2011, 09:12:08 PM
#58

What's cool about having your savings account on a CD-R in a safety deposit box at the bank is that you can STILL send bitcoins to that wallet!

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.
you have to use -rescan for the magic to work, though, afaik.

If I ever have lots of bitcoins, that's what I'll do Smiley

I only have some, but also entertain an extra savings-account.

The wallet.dat does not exist in unencrypted form. The encrypted one I emailed to lots of friends and also put on some removable media.

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May 04, 2011, 12:07:15 AM
#59

When you go to the bank and get your CD-R and set the wallet up again, all your bitcoins that you sent to that wallet will magically appear.
you have to use -rescan for the magic to work, though, afaik.

Bitcoin 0.3.21 puts a 'bestblock' entry in the wallet so it will automatically -rescan if you restore an old wallet (and it only rescans the blocks necessary to get up-to-date).

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May 04, 2011, 01:32:51 AM
#60

Putting on 2 CD-R and Flash doesn't seem to be enough for 300,000K bitcoins.  Maybe you can tease us by encrypting the wallet with TrueCrypt, give it a 20 char password, and post it here.  You can be sure the wallet will continue to exist on the Internet and it will be safe.

I've always thought it'd be cool to have a torrent going with a bunch of wallets just in case governments make it a strategy to identify and destroy all the backups that a person might have, or in the case that someone goes into a comma for like a decade and after waking up realizes that all the other backups are gone for some reason.
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May 04, 2011, 06:53:00 AM
#61

Putting on 2 CD-R and Flash doesn't seem to be enough for 300,000K bitcoins.  Maybe you can tease us by encrypting the wallet with TrueCrypt, give it a 20 char password, and post it here.  You can be sure the wallet will continue to exist on the Internet and it will be safe.

I've always thought it'd be cool to have a torrent going with a bunch of wallets just in case governments make it a strategy to identify and destroy all the backups that a person might have, or in the case that someone goes into a comma for like a decade and after waking up realizes that all the other backups are gone for some reason.

sort of like a wallet blockchain?
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May 04, 2011, 11:20:27 AM
#62

sort of like a wallet blockchain?

I guess? Just a simple torrent that gets updated with new wallets once or twice a year would do. Maybe there's a better way of doing it.
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May 05, 2011, 10:02:18 AM
#63

What will keep people seeding the torrent?

Perhaps you could encrypt your wallet and hide it steganographicly into something that people are interested in inside Freenet.

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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May 05, 2011, 01:40:00 PM
#64

Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time. For legal reasons I can't blurt out who the investors were or the banks, companies, etc. they were representing basically (unless I won't to land in court forever), but I think I made a wise investment. It's still going to take a while to get my wife on board as she still doesn't understand the whole BTC concept, but everyone here knows and I know what it means. She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

I'll probably take some of the backup advise here too, why have a few backup copies when you can have many on different media types spread around everywhere (all encrypted of course this time).

Thanks for the advise everyone!

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May 05, 2011, 02:01:51 PM
#65

Get 1M coins.
Get another computer.
Load Bitcoin on it. Do not connect to internet. Do not download blocks.
Write down an address from this wallet.
Encrypt wallet. Delete original.
Send coins to the address.
Wait.....
Unencrypt. Spend.
I'm wondering though. Huh Couldn't someone make a custom client that rather than generate a random address create the address you are sending the money to? No public key would exist for it yet in the network so when someone else who is connected creates the address their public key would be the one for that address. I guess if that was true, it would still work as long as you didn't tell anyone what that address was as someone randomly creating the same address would be highly unlikely.

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May 05, 2011, 03:57:22 PM
#66

What will keep people seeding the torrent?

Now that you ask I'm not sure lol, didn't think it through. I guess some people would just feel good seeding, either because they are helping others or because they are sticking it to the government. A more reliable incentive I can think of is to track the upload rates of people so that they could potentially be used as a measure of reputation.

Perhaps you could encrypt your wallet and hide it steganographicly into something that people are interested in inside Freenet.

I'm very ignorant about Freenet. Would it be safe to leave the wallet there and come back to it after getting out of prison 3 years later or would it be gone by then?


Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time

Nice! I'm shocked that they didn't spend all of 30 seconds checking the price of bitcoins before selling.
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May 05, 2011, 04:45:47 PM
#67

Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time. For legal reasons I can't blurt out who the investors were or the banks, companies, etc. they were representing basically (unless I won't to land in court forever), but I think I made a wise investment. It's still going to take a while to get my wife on board as she still doesn't understand the whole BTC concept, but everyone here knows and I know what it means. She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

I'll probably take some of the backup advise here too, why have a few backup copies when you can have many on different media types spread around everywhere (all encrypted of course this time).

Thanks for the advise everyone!
Grin

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May 05, 2011, 05:21:03 PM
#68

The more people access somthing on Freenet the more it gets copied around, and there are some tricks to put things together so if people access one thing they actually copy everything (like if you put the stuff inside a zipfile, or add your file into an image with steganography)


But AFAIK, if no one tries to access it for too long the storage space will eventually be used to store somthing else.

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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May 05, 2011, 09:21:05 PM
#69


knightmb:

How much?

PM me if you want to move large amounts.

Hehe  Grin

It's just going to sit at the bank for now until the investors decide what to do with it. The irony is, they think the project is a bust, so I've requested to take over ownership of it but never mentioned anything about it's current value because they have never bothered to check since last year. Can you believe all the "smart business" people that told them that BTC was just a waste of time for them? Shows how smart they were.

Far out. So let me get this straight. You have just secured the ownership of the keys to 371k btc for USD$5k because the initial investors wanted out and can't be bothered to check current trading value of BTC .... and your wife is skeptical!?

That's epic.

As I said earlier, if you need to move large amounts contact me ... or have your wife contact me if she is still skeptical.

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May 05, 2011, 11:07:32 PM
#70

She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

You are my hero.

Definitely consider an encrypted printout. With the proper inks and paper it could last 100 years and survive a fire in a firesafe. Magnetic and optical media are too fragile to store value.
http://www.ollydbg.de/Paperbak/index.html

You can build your own algorithm and tool even.

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May 05, 2011, 11:27:09 PM
#71


Better yet, engrave the key to a high value address/wallet in a good sized gold ingot and bury the whole damn thing somewhere.

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May 16, 2011, 02:02:32 PM
#72

Far out. So let me get this straight. You have just secured the ownership of the keys to 371k btc for USD$5k because the initial investors wanted out and can't be bothered to check current trading value of BTC .... and your wife is skeptical!?

That's epic.

As I said earlier, if you need to move large amounts contact me ... or have your wife contact me if she is still skeptical.
The initial investors never got the concept really. When I first started, when 1 BTC was basically $0.0001, the idea was to generate/buy as many as possible, then use it for payments. So if someone wanted a credit card that could buy $100 worth of stuff, they would insert X number of bitcoins to get that value loaded on the card. To keep the bank current, the credit card would be backed by Bitcoins at the bank basically. They initially though that 1 BTC would never get above maybe $0.20 per BTC, at least that's what I go from them. So they invested about $12k to either generated or buy bitcoins for the first part of 2010.

My part was to simply compile some versions of bitcoin that could run on the Amazon cloud service. They rented a ton of CPU time and basically generated BTC non-stop for a while. At the same time, I was buying from members here (they probably remember me buying a ton from them) and then funnel everything into one massive wallet file. After funds ran out, so did the Amazon CPU time and me bugging members to buy what they had generated from the start.

Then things sat in limbo for a while, long while. The project went bust and the people I was working with really still had no idea how BTC worked really. Soon, the project turned into zombie status and the initial investors (remember these aren't technical people in the least) though it was worthless or maybe just a fade that was dieing a quick death. Who am I to argue? That's when I offered a buy out back in Feb of this year and they took it finally.

I think after a few more stories make it in the news about the BTC value, they will kick themselves for sure.

Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin

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May 16, 2011, 03:43:39 PM
#73

Quote from: knightmb link=topic=6825.msg123739#msg123739

I think after a few more stories make it in the news about the BTC value, they will kick themselves for sure.

[/quote

They're going to do more than kick themselves.  If their is a kink in any of your contractual armor expect to be sued.

send btc --> 1F1avjWuBy1Ah8vuEkyVDPJ93ev3unfC3J
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May 16, 2011, 03:48:53 PM
#74

Quote from: knightmb link=topic=6825.msg123739#msg123739

I think after a few more stories make it in the news about the BTC value, they will kick themselves for sure.

[/quote

They're going to do more than kick themselves.  If their is a kink in any of your contractual armor expect to be sued.

Yea, almost 0% chance they don't sue when Bitcoin pops up in the Economist. Hopefully you received decent advice from a lawyer when setting up the contract.
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May 16, 2011, 04:08:45 PM
#75

Far out. So let me get this straight. You have just secured the ownership of the keys to 371k btc for USD$5k because the initial investors wanted out and can't be bothered to check current trading value of BTC .... and your wife is skeptical!?

That's epic.

As I said earlier, if you need to move large amounts contact me ... or have your wife contact me if she is still skeptical.
The initial investors never got the concept really. When I first started, when 1 BTC was basically $0.0001, the idea was to generate/buy as many as possible, then use it for payments. So if someone wanted a credit card that could buy $100 worth of stuff, they would insert X number of bitcoins to get that value loaded on the card. To keep the bank current, the credit card would be backed by Bitcoins at the bank basically. They initially though that 1 BTC would never get above maybe $0.20 per BTC, at least that's what I go from them. So they invested about $12k to either generated or buy bitcoins for the first part of 2010.

My part was to simply compile some versions of bitcoin that could run on the Amazon cloud service. They rented a ton of CPU time and basically generated BTC non-stop for a while. At the same time, I was buying from members here (they probably remember me buying a ton from them) and then funnel everything into one massive wallet file. After funds ran out, so did the Amazon CPU time and me bugging members to buy what they had generated from the start.

Then things sat in limbo for a while, long while. The project went bust and the people I was working with really still had no idea how BTC worked really. Soon, the project turned into zombie status and the initial investors (remember these aren't technical people in the least) though it was worthless or maybe just a fade that was dieing a quick death. Who am I to argue? That's when I offered a buy out back in Feb of this year and they took it finally.

I think after a few more stories make it in the news about the BTC value, they will kick themselves for sure.

Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin

knightmb, this is an amazing story...can I post this in my blog?
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May 16, 2011, 04:46:33 PM
#76

If this download saved you time, consider sending a donation of any amount to 1JpLBb3S9PEdft2SsB3ZT6YnwwNWqupYTJ

Considering the fact that you are likely to own more BTC than all the other forum users combined I think it's time to update the signature Smiley
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May 16, 2011, 06:34:51 PM
#77

Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time. For legal reasons I can't blurt out who the investors were or the banks, companies, etc. they were representing basically (unless I won't to land in court forever), but I think I made a wise investment. It's still going to take a while to get my wife on board as she still doesn't understand the whole BTC concept, but everyone here knows and I know what it means. She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

I'll probably take some of the backup advise here too, why have a few backup copies when you can have many on different media types spread around everywhere (all encrypted of course this time).

Thanks for the advise everyone!

Michael Brown (knightmb), you have not told the full story here, and this is not the first time you have screwed an employer. If you do not do the right thing now, this will come back to haunt you.

You are also in over your head. Has it occurred to you that you owe $850,000 of federal income tax on this "deal"? Fortunately for you, we do not have state tax in Tennessee, but you will still owe business taxes, and you haven't even applied for the right licenses.

You have one chance to do the right thing here. You know what it is.
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May 16, 2011, 06:51:55 PM
#78

Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time. For legal reasons I can't blurt out who the investors were or the banks, companies, etc. they were representing basically (unless I won't to land in court forever), but I think I made a wise investment. It's still going to take a while to get my wife on board as she still doesn't understand the whole BTC concept, but everyone here knows and I know what it means. She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

I'll probably take some of the backup advise here too, why have a few backup copies when you can have many on different media types spread around everywhere (all encrypted of course this time).

Thanks for the advise everyone!

Michael Brown (knightmb), you have not told the full story here, and this is not the first time you have screwed an employer. If you do not do the right thing now, this will come back to haunt you.

You are also in over your head. Has it occurred to you that you owe $850,000 of federal income tax on this "deal"? Fortunately for you, we do not have state tax in Tennessee, but you will still owe business taxes, and you haven't even applied for the right licenses.

You have one chance to do the right thing here. You know what it is.
You never have federal income tax on items you buy.  Tax is recovered in the form of "gain on sale" for any assets purchased at lower than market value.  Unless/until he sells the bitcoins, he owes nothing to the US government.

State laws might be a bit more complicated, but aside from sales tax (which only applies to end consumers anyway, not sales of business transactions), I can't think of any reason a state would tax this particular situation.

I agree that knightmb didn't really take the moral high ground on this, but that's his decision to make, not mine.

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May 16, 2011, 07:01:36 PM
#79

Thank goodness!

knightmb is in the perfect position to start selling Bitcoins in a physical store.  Even at high markups, cash to BTC on Android or to a specific address has the potential to sell like gangbusters.
The high markups would be necessary to ensure profitability while finding someone else who'll take USD for BTC.
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May 16, 2011, 07:03:11 PM
#80

For your own sake knightmb, I hope you spent roughly triple that on iron-tight mutual indemnifications. If not, here is my advice (I'm not a lawyer, btw):

1. Get a lawyer, right now
2. On review, figure out if you need to get a settlement in place which covers all mutual indemnifications.
3. Get those things locked down. You will likely have to pay some of your $3m USD in earnings to get that sorted.

When you have a technical partner knowingly buying assets from non-technical partners for pennies on the dollar, there may well be significant repercussions. And, as someone here mentioned, it's also just kind of shitty.

Food for thought.

For those mentioning taxes -- unless he's selling his BTC, he likely doesn't have a requirement to mark his BTC to market; this is no doubt a gray area in the tax law right now. I wouldn't say he owes right now unless he's liquidating.

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May 16, 2011, 07:32:45 PM
#81

Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time. For legal reasons I can't blurt out who the investors were or the banks, companies, etc. they were representing basically (unless I won't to land in court forever), but I think I made a wise investment. It's still going to take a while to get my wife on board as she still doesn't understand the whole BTC concept, but everyone here knows and I know what it means. She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

I'll probably take some of the backup advise here too, why have a few backup copies when you can have many on different media types spread around everywhere (all encrypted of course this time).

Thanks for the advise everyone!

Michael Brown (knightmb), you have not told the full story here, and this is not the first time you have screwed an employer. If you do not do the right thing now, this will come back to haunt you.

You are also in over your head. Has it occurred to you that you owe $850,000 of federal income tax on this "deal"? Fortunately for you, we do not have state tax in Tennessee, but you will still owe business taxes, and you haven't even applied for the right licenses.

You have one chance to do the right thing here. You know what it is.

Beacon, is a newbie with one post.  Could be fake.  Beacon, do you know the full story?  Sounds like knightmb just pulled off a Louisiana Purchase.  The U.S. did it to France and I don't see what knightmb did wrong...unless there is more to the story...
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May 16, 2011, 07:39:02 PM
#82

For your own sake knightmb, I hope you spent roughly triple that on iron-tight mutual indemnifications. If not, here is my advice (I'm not a lawyer, btw):

1. Get a lawyer, right now
2. On review, figure out if you need to get a settlement in place which covers all mutual indemnifications.
3. Get those things locked down. You will likely have to pay some of your $3m USD in earnings to get that sorted.

When you have a technical partner knowingly buying assets from non-technical partners for pennies on the dollar, there may well be significant repercussions. And, as someone here mentioned, it's also just kind of shitty.

Food for thought.

For those mentioning taxes -- unless he's selling his BTC, he likely doesn't have a requirement to mark his BTC to market; this is no doubt a gray area in the tax law right now. I wouldn't say he owes right now unless he's liquidating.
Good point on the knowingly buying assets without revealing information.  I believe there are laws against doing this, which would mean that knightmb is kind of screwed if/when the other company partners find out.

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May 16, 2011, 07:46:24 PM
#83

This is amazing. It's probably best your wife doesn't get it or she might insist on getting some of those paper dollars.

I can't believe you didn't even give them their 12k back! Maybe you can't offer too much without making them suspicious? How did you ever talk these people into putting up money for something they had no interest in?

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May 16, 2011, 07:50:52 PM
#84

For your own sake knightmb, I hope you spent roughly triple that on iron-tight mutual indemnifications. If not, here is my advice (I'm not a lawyer, btw):

1. Get a lawyer, right now
2. On review, figure out if you need to get a settlement in place which covers all mutual indemnifications.
3. Get those things locked down. You will likely have to pay some of your $3m USD in earnings to get that sorted.

When you have a technical partner knowingly buying assets from non-technical partners for pennies on the dollar, there may well be significant repercussions. And, as someone here mentioned, it's also just kind of shitty.

Food for thought.

For those mentioning taxes -- unless he's selling his BTC, he likely doesn't have a requirement to mark his BTC to market; this is no doubt a gray area in the tax law right now. I wouldn't say he owes right now unless he's liquidating.
Good point on the knowingly buying assets without revealing information.  I believe there are laws against doing this, which would mean that knightmb is kind of screwed if/when the other company partners find out.

Bitcoins were also worth a lot less in Feb when knightmb did the deal.  I hope everything works out for everyone.
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May 16, 2011, 07:53:41 PM
#85

Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time. For legal reasons I can't blurt out who the investors were or the banks, companies, etc. they were representing basically (unless I won't to land in court forever), but I think I made a wise investment. It's still going to take a while to get my wife on board as she still doesn't understand the whole BTC concept, but everyone here knows and I know what it means. She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

I'll probably take some of the backup advise here too, why have a few backup copies when you can have many on different media types spread around everywhere (all encrypted of course this time).

Thanks for the advise everyone!

Michael Brown (knightmb), you have not told the full story here, and this is not the first time you have screwed an employer. If you do not do the right thing now, this will come back to haunt you.

You are also in over your head. Has it occurred to you that you owe $850,000 of federal income tax on this "deal"? Fortunately for you, we do not have state tax in Tennessee, but you will still owe business taxes, and you haven't even applied for the right licenses.

You have one chance to do the right thing here. You know what it is.

Since you're here, want to tell us the full story?

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May 16, 2011, 07:56:17 PM
#86


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May 16, 2011, 07:57:39 PM
#87



Bitcoins were also worth a lot less in Feb when knightmb did the deal.  I hope everything works out for everyone.

That's not the impression I get. I think this deal just happened.

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May 16, 2011, 08:03:14 PM
#88

Since you're here, want to tell us the full story?

I'll just point out that Beacon has said nothing so far that isn't publicly available info.

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May 16, 2011, 08:47:15 PM
#89

without commenting on this particular case, much of what people are saying about united states taxes in bitcoin-forum discussions is wrong.

in the united states, you owe income taxes on property you acquire from any source (except gifts and a small number of other exclusions). you don't get to wait until you convert it into cash. people who say that are confusing capital-gain-realization rules for income rules.

for example, if you find treasure in your backyard, you have taxable income. if you mine gold, you have taxable income, unless there are special mining laws that tax it differently. if you install linux for someone and they pay you in sdram, you have taxable income. taxes are computed at the fair market value (in dollars) at the time you acquire the property. you don't have to sell it in any of these cases to have federal income tax.

see http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch12.html

states in the us often have transfer taxes for business sales, and the transfer taxes may depend on the fair market value of the assets.

update: to be clear, i'm not commenting on this case or saying that anyone said anything wrong here. i just wanted to provide general information to correct what i've perceived as a general mistake in forum discussions. if i had to guess about this particular case, i'd think it's possible someone does owe taxes on the mining 'income' regardless of sale, based on the value when it was mined. i don't know if it's the buyer or the seller of the business, and i agree that it's all probably a grey area.
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May 16, 2011, 08:51:42 PM
#90

Since you're here, want to tell us the full story?

I'll just point out that Beacon has said nothing so far that isn't publicly available info.

Clearly not. But maybe he will.

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May 16, 2011, 08:52:59 PM
#91

without commenting on this particular case, much of what people are saying about united states taxes in bitcoin-forum discussions is wrong.

in the united states, you owe income taxes on property you acquire from any source (except gifts and a small number of other exclusions). you don't get to wait until you convert it into cash. people who say that are confusing capital-gain-realization rules for income rules.

for example, if you find treasure in your backyard, you have taxable income. if you mine gold, you have taxable income, unless there are special mining laws that tax it differently. if you install linux for someone and they pay you in sdram, you have taxable income. taxes are computed at the fair market value (in dollars) at the time you acquire the property. you don't have to sell it in any of these cases to have federal income tax.

see http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch12.html

states in the us often have transfer taxes for business sales, and the transfer taxes may depend on the fair market value of the assets.
I think you're confusing income taxes from gain of assets in the course of doing business vs the purchasing of a business (which is what, I believe, knightmb did).

http://www.unclefed.com/AuthorsRow/Daily/fwdbuybusiness.html

Quote
While there is no federal tax on the purchase of a business, states and localities may impose transfer taxes. Check it out before you make the deal, especially if real estate is part of the deal.


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May 16, 2011, 08:53:15 PM
#92

Good point on the knowingly buying assets without revealing information.  I believe there are laws against doing this, which would mean that knightmb is kind of screwed if/when the other company partners find out.

i really doubt that - basing on his story he did not used any kind of 'insider trading', all information about btc to usd rate are easily accessible
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May 16, 2011, 08:59:02 PM
#93

without commenting on this particular case, much of what people are saying about united states taxes in bitcoin-forum discussions is wrong.

in the united states, you owe income taxes on property you acquire from any source (except gifts and a small number of other exclusions). you don't get to wait until you convert it into cash. people who say that are confusing capital-gain-realization rules for income rules.

for example, if you find treasure in your backyard, you have taxable income. if you mine gold, you have taxable income, unless there are special mining laws that tax it differently. if you install linux for someone and they pay you in sdram, you have taxable income. taxes are computed at the fair market value (in dollars) at the time you acquire the property. you don't have to sell it in any of these cases to have federal income tax.

see http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch12.html

states in the us often have transfer taxes for business sales, and the transfer taxes may depend on the fair market value of the assets.
I think you're confusing the acquisition of assets vs the purchasing of a business (which is what, I believe, knightmb did).

http://www.unclefed.com/AuthorsRow/Daily/fwdbuybusiness.html

Quote
While there is no federal tax on the purchase of a business, states and localities may impose transfer taxes. Check it out before you make the deal, especially if real estate is part of the deal.



Either way, both parties seem to be acknowledging that bitcoins is, indeed, real.  At least there is a positive in all of this. :-P
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May 16, 2011, 09:38:14 PM
#94

Either way, both parties seem to be acknowledging that bitcoins is, indeed, real.  At least there is a positive in all of this. :-P

Oh, it's even better than that.  The party that acknowledged the reality of Bitcoins seems to have made out like a bandit.  While the party that had every opportunity to do so, and didn't, ends up looking like fools.

And that's exactly the way capitalism is supposed to work.  Risk brings reward.  All trades are not equal trades.  Information is not universal.  Stupidity is punished.  No one bails out the losers.

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May 16, 2011, 10:10:22 PM
#95

without commenting on this particular case, much of what people are saying about united states taxes in bitcoin-forum discussions is wrong.

in the united states, you owe income taxes on property you acquire from any source (except gifts and a small number of other exclusions). you don't get to wait until you convert it into cash. people who say that are confusing capital-gain-realization rules for income rules.

for example, if you find treasure in your backyard, you have taxable income. if you mine gold, you have taxable income, unless there are special mining laws that tax it differently. if you install linux for someone and they pay you in sdram, you have taxable income. taxes are computed at the fair market value (in dollars) at the time you acquire the property. you don't have to sell it in any of these cases to have federal income tax.

see http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch12.html

states in the us often have transfer taxes for business sales, and the transfer taxes may depend on the fair market value of the assets.

update: to be clear, i'm not commenting on this case or saying that anyone said anything wrong here. i just wanted to provide general information to correct what i've perceived as a general mistake in forum discussions. if i had to guess about this particular case, i'd think it's possible someone does owe taxes on the mining 'income' regardless of sale, based on the value when it was mined. i don't know if it's the buyer or the seller of the business, and i agree that it's all probably a grey area.

Aside from the case, I'm curious.

Do I owe taxes on the things I create? For example. I buy a saw (pay tax on that), and buy some wood (pay tax on that). I use the tool and the material to create a chair. Do I owe tax on the chair, or only if I sell the chair?

How would my example compare to mining Bitcoins? I buy hardware (pay tax on that), and internet service (pay tax on that). I download an open source program (no tax?). I use my hardware, internet connection, and the program to find the next block in the chain and I reward myself 50 BTC for doing it. Do I owe taxes on the BTC, or only if I sell them?

Do BTC equate to the chair or have I made some error?
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May 16, 2011, 10:16:10 PM
#96

Regarding taxes,

A simple purchase is never taxable for the purchaser unless there are specific asset-transfer taxes (think registration for a car) in the US, or any state in the US. Period, end of story.

BitCoins paid for services rendered or goods are certainly taxable, and they would likely be marked to market at end of year, or at time of exercise to USD on recommendation from a CPA.

BitCoins 'mined' with your computer are a little harder, and I don't think there's good indication here as to what they are, or if they should be taxed yet -- do you have to pay taxes on a piece of art you made, and haven't sold yet? (The answer is no, even if your paintings are worth millions). In any event, I think it unlikely that BTC mined will be reported and taxable in the near future for a combination of reporting and other reasons.

----- Now, for a more personal perspective ----

Regarding "this is how capitalism works", unless you're a sort of weird objectivist type who's come to love robber barons, anytime a business party knowingly misrepresents the value of something and makes significant gains, there may well be civil or criminal liability. Capitalism involves helping people transfer assets around for cash, build jobs and wealth, and keeping people from getting screwed doing so.

I don't know if KnightMB misrepresented, nor do I know if his agreements are solid, but I do know if he wrote a note that said "Hey, I'll take those computers and hard drives off your hands for $5k" and they said "OK," he will CERTAINLY be getting a nastygram one day, and his counsel is going to recommend settling, not fighting.

On the other hand, if he wrote up a proper asset purchase including everything, hardware and data, and made no warranties, and they also acknowledged they were getting out and signed proper indemnifications, seller beware. That's an all's fair in business sort of moment, and they should have looked more closely at what they were doing.

Of course, if this was a bunch of grandmas that KnightMB pitched originally, that will play differently than if it were some forex trading hedge fund managers; lots depends on the context. I don't think we've heard the last of this story, or the facts of it yet.

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May 16, 2011, 10:42:01 PM
#97

@rezin777: very nice questions, in my opinion.

manufacturers may have income as a result of manufacture. for example, see

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/industries/article/0,,id=100355,00.html

which says 'To figure taxable income, you must value your inventory at the beginning and end of each tax year'.

inventory rules are complicated, however, and involve many line-drawing problems. but it's very possible for a business to be required to include goods purchased below market in 'inventory' at fair market value before sale. for example, the same document i linked above directs taxpayers to include in taxable inventory all 'purchased merchandise if title has passed to you, even if the merchandise is in transit or you do not have physical possession for another reason'.

in general, there isn't a tax difference between 'making' and 'mining'. making gold from atomic processes (or more realistically at today's level of technology, making a diamond from conventional industrial processes for planned sale) would almost definitely have the same tax treatment as mining it, unless there are specific statutes that differentiate the two. what may be leading to an intuition that 'making' something isn't taxable is that if you just make something for yourself, not for sale or for its financial value, then it is likely not taxable.

but of course, i'm not commenting on this case or giving tax advice!

@vess, it is not correct to say 'a simple purchase is never taxable for the purchaser' under federal law in the united states. that is usually true, but there are many situations that require marking to market even if there is a purchase but no sale. it's 'for most ordinary taxpayers, trading most securities', not 'period, end of story'. i agree with you about what 'capitalism' is, however. it's hard to find people who actually engage in business in the modern world who have the extreme 'robber baron' view of nondisclosure norms. nor would those norms be economically productive in most situations.
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May 16, 2011, 10:55:36 PM
#98

@unk, agreed.

I would expect professional miners to pay inventory taxes, although probably not hobbyists, (again, the line is tough here) hobbyists I would expect to pay income tax on sale.


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May 16, 2011, 10:56:01 PM
#99

but of course, i'm not commenting on this case or giving tax advice!

Understood.  Smiley

Thanks for the reply. I look forward to seeing exactly how it all plays out.  
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May 16, 2011, 11:02:24 PM

BitCoins 'mined' with your computer are a little harder, and I don't think there's good indication here as to what they are, or if they should be taxed yet -- do you have to pay taxes on a piece of art you made, and haven't sold yet? (The answer is no, even if your paintings are worth millions). In any event, I think it unlikely that BTC mined will be reported and taxable in the near future for a combination of reporting and other reasons.

This is a complicated question.  Assuming we're talking about someone who mines bitcoins directly (no pools, mining contracts, etc.), mined bitcoins come from two sources: the block reward (currently 50 BTC) and transaction fees.

Transaction fees seem very much like payment for the service of including the transaction in a block.  As such, they would be taxable.

The block reward is trickier.  Are they like a manufactured product, in which case they would not be taxable until sold?  It's not so clear.  There are a finite number of them, and they are granted to you for following a set of rules enforced by everyone else in the network.  I think the case could be made that the block reward is also a form of payment for the service of generating a block, though it is not clear exactly who the payment is from.

Pooled mining seems like offering computing services to the pool operator in exchange for payment in bitcoins, and thus may be taxable as well.

I'd be careful about assuming that no taxes are due when mining bitcoins that have not yet been sold.
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May 16, 2011, 11:07:24 PM

@rezin777: very nice questions, in my opinion.

manufacturers may have income as a result of manufacture. for example, see

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/industries/article/0,,id=100355,00.html

which says 'To figure taxable income, you must value your inventory at the beginning and end of each tax year'.

inventory rules are complicated, however, and involve many line-drawing problems. but it's very possible for a business to be required to include goods purchased below market in 'inventory' at fair market value before sale. for example, the same document i linked above directs taxpayers to include in taxable inventory all 'purchased merchandise if title has passed to you, even if the merchandise is in transit or you do not have physical possession for another reason'.

in general, there isn't a tax difference between 'making' and 'mining'. making gold from atomic processes (or more realistically at today's level of technology, making a diamond from conventional industrial processes for planned sale) would almost definitely have the same tax treatment as mining it, unless there are specific statutes that differentiate the two. what may be leading to an intuition that 'making' something isn't taxable is that if you just make something for yourself, not for sale or for its financial value, then it is likely not taxable.

but of course, i'm not commenting on this case or giving tax advice!

@vess, it is not correct to say 'a simple purchase is never taxable for the purchaser' under federal law in the united states. that is usually true, but there are many situations that require marking to market even if there is a purchase but no sale. it's 'for most ordinary taxpayers, trading most securities', not 'period, end of story'. i agree with you about what 'capitalism' is, however. it's hard to find people who actually engage in business in the modern world who have the extreme 'robber baron' view of nondisclosure norms. nor would those norms be economically productive in most situations.
You are taking things completely out of context.

Quote
An inventory is necessary to clearly show income when the production, purchase, or sale of merchandise is an income-producing factor. If you must account for an inventory in your business, you must use an accrual method of accounting for your purchases and sales
This means that if you keep an inventory of finished goods on hand, available for sale, you must know the value of said goods.  It doesn't mean that producing the goods themselves is taxable, only that you must know the value of your inventory so that when you sell it, you have proper accounting for your cost of goods sold, so you know what your income is after expenses.

NOWHERE does it say that you are taxed for income when you produce goods.  You are ONLY taxed when you sell the goods you produce!

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May 16, 2011, 11:10:42 PM

What if bitcoins are not produced for sale but as a long term investment?
Or if they end up becoming unsalable?

This is exactly why there is no tax on product manufactured, only a tax on when it is sold.

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May 16, 2011, 11:34:40 PM

NOWHERE does it say that you are taxed for income when you produce goods.  You are ONLY taxed when you sell the goods you produce!

Agreed.  I looked at the rules for inventories when trying to figure out bitcoin taxation.  I didn't see an indication that inventories are taxable prior to sale.  Rather, it seems that tax is due on income when goods are sold.  The income is reduced by the "cost of goods sold".  For a retailer, that would primarily be the amount paid for the goods, and for a manufacturer, the cost of manufacturing and raw materials.

That said, the first question is whether bitcoins are inventory or a capital asset.  That affects whether they are eligible for the more favorable capital gains tax rate and whether there is a limit on deducting losses.  I found an interesting discussion of the distinction in the context of real estate: http://www.nysscpa.org/cpajournal/2007/707/essentials/p42.htm

Property is a capital asset unless it meets one of the specific definitions of a noncapital asset, one of which is "Stock in trade, inventory, and other property you hold mainly for sale to customers in your trade or business."

If you mine bitcoins and sell them all on Mt. Gox, it may be true that they are held "mainly for sale" but I would question whether they are for sale "to customers".  If you sell via an exchange or market without even knowing who bought them, and without any advertising, salespeople, etc., it hardly seems that you are in the business of selling to customers.  I found some discussion of what constitutes a "customer" in this article (search for "customer"): http://www.chapman.com/media/news/media.858.pdf

If you are running a business like Bitcoin4Cash (in the U.S.), it's a different story and the bitcoins are likely inventory.  If you advertise bitcoins for sale on #bitcoin-otc, it's more of a gray area.  If you mine coins and hold them as an investment, they do not seem to be held "mainly for sale".  If you sell some and hold some, it's another gray area.

Information is for entertainment purposes only, this is not tax advice, etc.
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May 16, 2011, 11:45:04 PM

As long as the US does not recognize bitcoins as a currency, there will be no taxation of mining or taxation of valuation gains until the bitcoins are sold.

If bitcoins are ever considered a "foreign currency" under US law, they would likely be subject to tax laws on ordinary or capital gains BEFORE being sold, and maybe tax on foreign currency transactions is what unk was trying to get at.  Hard to say whether currency produced out of thin air would be considered a gain on a currency transaction though.  Tongue

http://www.maximadvisors.com/knowledge-library/US-Taxation-Foreign-Currency-Gains-Losses.html

But, in order to be taxed in this manner, the US would be forced to recognize bitcoins as a legitimate currency.  Cheesy

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May 16, 2011, 11:50:22 PM

What if bitcoins are not produced for sale but as a long term investment?

What if the bitcoins are destroyed?  Are you burning legal or illegal tender?
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May 16, 2011, 11:53:10 PM

What if bitcoins are not produced for sale but as a long term investment?

What if the bitcoins are destroyed?  Are you burning legal or illegal tender?
You're not burning tender at all, according to the US.  Wink

Unless they recognize it as a currency.  Then they'll throw you in jail for it.

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May 16, 2011, 11:54:23 PM

Is it actually a crime to literally burn money?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
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May 16, 2011, 11:56:19 PM

Is it actually a crime to literally burn money?
Yes, but I don't think anyone has ever been prosecuting for doing so.

It's also a crime to deface money in any way (i.e. writing on it, etc).

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May 17, 2011, 12:25:26 AM

It's also a crime to deface money in any way (i.e. writing on it, etc).

Actually that's not true.  See WheresGeorge; they've been around for over ten years and the entire point is to write on money.  It's only illegal if you're mutilating the currency to the point where it's no longer fit for recirculation, but even that is only "technically" illegal, i.e. you're not going to get prosecuted for it even if you do it.  The only thing you're realistically going to get in trouble for is defacing currency with the intent to commit fraud, e.g. taking a $5 bill, bleaching the ink out, and printing a $100 on it.

http://www.wheresgeorge.com/
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May 17, 2011, 12:33:13 AM

I don't know where in the law it says that I have to pay tax just for having chickens, gold or otherwise. If it does exist, they can pry said tax from my dead cold fingers.

Damn statists and their tax pedantry.
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May 17, 2011, 12:47:39 AM

it's not a crime in the us just to write on money. the crime requires an 'intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued'. i've never understood the point of even that, because someone burning their own money seems to be doing everyone else a favour, modulo the carbon emissions. (similarly, outrage at flag burning in the us has always struck me as silly: you didn't burn my flag. you burned your own flag.)

as for taxes on manufacturing, inventories, and sale, the problem is that we're deep into a grey area, and the various classifications are difficult. i may have misspoken about us law on manufactured goods. you seem to be right that mere manufacture of goods does not result in taxable income. traditional mining (which might have nothing to do with bitcoin mining) can, however, but it's complicated. see for example 26 CFR 1.613-4.
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May 17, 2011, 12:51:37 AM

as for taxes on manufacturing, inventories, and sale, the problem is that we're deep into a grey area, and the various classifications are difficult. i may have misspoken about us law on manufactured goods. you seem to be right that mere manufacture of goods does not result in taxable income. traditional mining (which might have nothing to do with bitcoin mining) can, however, but it's complicated. see for example 26 CFR 1.613-4.

It's a wonder that people wouldn't become disgusted with such extensive tax laws and simply refuse to produce anything at all. Unless of course, they had strong incentive to believe in what those taxes were being use for.
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May 17, 2011, 01:19:30 AM

Removed: Statist found it "too objectionable" ... read below if you can be bothered.

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"Disarming money as a tool for tyranny."
"Disintermediating the State."
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May 17, 2011, 01:31:49 AM

It is sad, sad statement of the mindset of society that a thread about a glorious win by an enterprising, far-sighted individual gets turned into a sordid discussion of taxes and various other leeches wanting to bleed him of his new found wealth. You should all be ashamed ... in fact some of you are probably on the gubmint teat and this is your angle to get hold of something you were never entitled to, i.e. a slick form of theft.

You guys are all just so far gone and fucked up by the statist brainwashing that it is too late, I fear .... even bitcoins will not save you if you are not prepared to stand up to the looters ... and Just Say No! ... hands off my wealth fuckers.

I only discuss taxes because I try to avoid being "under the gun" of the government with the biggest guns on the planet. If that makes me a coward, so be it. I'd rather be a grey man (even though I do a poor job) than a dead man.
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May 17, 2011, 01:41:31 AM

Oh my god, Moa, would you give it a rest? When was the last time you had an original thought or did something productive for society? Is all you're capable of doing criticizing people who have even a small interest in the law? You've probably turned off more dozens of people to Bitcoin through your deranged rants than all the government regulators ever will. Are you really as uncreative and narrow as you pretend, or are you just trolling? Most of us here could write a computer program whose posts to the forum would be better than yours.

Or maybe you're just trying to kiss up to the person you perceive to be the new rich guy. How noble and intelligent of you. What a clever idea. Knight, if you're reading, stay far away from Moa.

Seriously, what have you ever done for anyone? I'm a long-time user of this forum and I was finally motivated to create a special anonymous account just to trash you. Your understanding of technology is facile. Your understanding of economics and politics is juvenile. You strike me as some sort of incompetent bond trader (or maybe gold or currency?) who's down on his luck. Your conception of the government is idiotic at best. You make me, an avid libertarian, want to become a totalitarian statist with your smug condescension at anything you don't understand. Go fuck yourself in the backwater nanny state where you live and leave the rest of us alone.
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May 17, 2011, 01:46:11 AM

Oh my god, Moa, would you give it a rest? When was the last time you had an original thought or did something productive for society? Is all you're capable of doing criticizing people who have even a small interest in the law? You've probably turned off more dozens of people to Bitcoin through your deranged rants than all the government regulators ever will. Are you really as uncreative and narrow as you pretend, or are you just trolling? Most of us here could write a computer program whose posts to the forum would be better than yours.

Or maybe you're just trying to kiss up to the person you perceive to be the new rich guy. How noble and intelligent of you. What a clever idea. Knight, if you're reading, stay far away from Moa.

Seriously, what have you ever done for anyone? I'm a long-time user of this forum and I was finally motivated to create a special anonymous account just to trash you. Your understanding of technology is facile. Your understanding of economics and politics is juvenile. You strike me as some sort of incompetent bond trader (or maybe gold or currency?) who's down on his luck. Your conception of the government is idiotic at best. You make me, an avid libertarian, want to become a totalitarian statist with your smug condescension at anything you don't understand. Go fuck yourself in the backwater nanny state where you live and leave the rest of us alone.

Well that particular truth must have got you off your arse to do something ... a new account huh? How creative, some nice big words in there though, thanks for your thoughts. (A simple "tone it down" would probably have sufficed.)

Edit: Statist is most probably "noagendamarket" or someone who he has revealed my location too ... thanks mate.

Monetary Freedom - a basic human right
"Disarming money as a tool for tyranny."
"Disintermediating the State."
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May 17, 2011, 01:55:46 AM

It is sad, sad statement of the mindset of society that a thread about a glorious win by an enterprising, far-sighted individual gets turned into a sordid discussion of taxes and various other leeches wanting to bleed him of his new found wealth. You should all be ashamed ... in fact some of you are probably on the gubmint teat and this is your angle to get hold of something you were never entitled to, i.e. a slick form of theft.

You guys are all just so far gone and fucked up by the statist brainwashing that it is too late, I fear .... even bitcoins will not save you if you are not prepared to stand up to the looters ... and Just Say No! ... hands off my wealth fuckers.
Or, we could just discuss existing tax laws like adults, until someone like you comes along.  Huh  And I'm not a leech of the government teat.  I am a working individual who abhors the absurd amount of welfare dollars we give away every day, all the while going into deeper and deeper national debt.  I would like nothing more than to see all of the welfare-driven programs abolished, and the tax rate halved because of it.

Apparently, trickery, cheating other people, and tax evasion is ok in your book.  Remind me never to do business with you.

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May 17, 2011, 02:02:27 AM

Or, we could just discuss existing tax laws like adults, until someone like you comes along.  Huh  And I'm not a leech of the government teat.  I am a working individual who abhors the absurd amount of welfare dollars we give away every day, all the while going into deeper and deeper national debt.  I would like nothing more than to see all of the welfare-driven programs abolished, and the tax rate halved because of it.

Apparently, trickery, cheating other people, and tax evasion is ok in your book.  Remind me never to do business with you.

None of those things are necessary. As unrealistic as it might sound to you, if you disagree with the way taxes are being spent, live your life in a way that will ensure that you pay as few taxes as possible. I know this is difficult for most, but it's hypocritical to claim you disagree with the welfare/warfare state while continuing to pay for it.
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May 17, 2011, 02:15:03 AM

It is sad, sad statement of the mindset of society that a thread about a glorious win by an enterprising, far-sighted individual gets turned into a sordid discussion of taxes and various other leeches wanting to bleed him of his new found wealth. You should all be ashamed ... in fact some of you are probably on the gubmint teat and this is your angle to get hold of something you were never entitled to, i.e. a slick form of theft.

You guys are all just so far gone and fucked up by the statist brainwashing that it is too late, I fear .... even bitcoins will not save you if you are not prepared to stand up to the looters ... and Just Say No! ... hands off my wealth fuckers.
Apparently, trickery, cheating other people, and tax evasion is ok in your book.  Remind me never to do business with you.

There is no trickery or cheating involved when it comes to the vilification of theft.
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May 17, 2011, 02:16:50 AM

Oh my god, Moa, would you give it a rest? When was the last time you had an original thought or did something productive for society? Is all you're capable of doing criticizing people who have even a small interest in the law? You've probably turned off more dozens of people to Bitcoin through your deranged rants than all the government regulators ever will. Are you really as uncreative and narrow as you pretend, or are you just trolling? Most of us here could write a computer program whose posts to the forum would be better than yours.

Or maybe you're just trying to kiss up to the person you perceive to be the new rich guy. How noble and intelligent of you. What a clever idea. Knight, if you're reading, stay far away from Moa.

Seriously, what have you ever done for anyone? I'm a long-time user of this forum and I was finally motivated to create a special anonymous account just to trash you. Your understanding of technology is facile. Your understanding of economics and politics is juvenile. You strike me as some sort of incompetent bond trader (or maybe gold or currency?) who's down on his luck. Your conception of the government is idiotic at best. You make me, an avid libertarian, want to become a totalitarian statist with your smug condescension at anything you don't understand. Go fuck yourself in the backwater nanny state where you live and leave the rest of us alone.
Argumentum ad hominem.
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May 17, 2011, 02:18:59 AM

People, mind the civility or I will start using my banhammer.  Wink

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May 17, 2011, 02:19:57 AM


Edit: Statist is most probably "noagendamarket" or someone who he has revealed my location too ... thanks mate.

You got no evidence to prove either way.

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May 17, 2011, 02:22:35 AM

Oh my god, Moa, would you give it a rest? When was the last time you had an original thought or did something productive for society? Is all you're capable of doing criticizing people who have even a small interest in the law? You've probably turned off more dozens of people to Bitcoin through your deranged rants than all the government regulators ever will. Are you really as uncreative and narrow as you pretend, or are you just trolling? Most of us here could write a computer program whose posts to the forum would be better than yours.

Or maybe you're just trying to kiss up to the person you perceive to be the new rich guy. How noble and intelligent of you. What a clever idea. Knight, if you're reading, stay far away from Moa.

Seriously, what have you ever done for anyone? I'm a long-time user of this forum and I was finally motivated to create a special anonymous account just to trash you. Your understanding of technology is facile. Your understanding of economics and politics is juvenile. You strike me as some sort of incompetent bond trader (or maybe gold or currency?) who's down on his luck. Your conception of the government is idiotic at best. You make me, an avid libertarian, want to become a totalitarian statist with your smug condescension at anything you don't understand. Go fuck yourself in the backwater nanny state where you live and leave the rest of us alone.

Well that particular truth must have got you off your arse to do something ... a new account huh? How creative, some nice big words in there though, thanks for your thoughts. (A simple "tone it down" would probably have sufficed.)

Edit: Statist is most probably "noagendamarket" or someone who he has revealed my location too ... thanks mate.

Thats an outlandish allegation. Ive never accused you of fucking sheep.

 Tongue
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May 17, 2011, 02:23:14 AM

noagendamarket is too awesome to be wasting his energy making ad hominems.
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May 17, 2011, 02:38:38 AM

Never trust an aussie.

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"Disintermediating the State."
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May 17, 2011, 02:41:21 AM

Regarding taxes,

Washington State in America has an annual 'inventory tax' which would likely apply to BTC, whether or not sold. I'm out of my depth applying US state tax concepts to BTC though, even my federal tax law knowledge is workmanlike at best.

I'm the CEO of CoinLab (www.coinlab.com) and the Executive Director of the Bitcoin Foundation, I will identify if I'm speaking for myself or one of the organizations when I post from this account.
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May 17, 2011, 02:47:37 AM

Never trust an aussie.

You are delusional. Clearly Im not the only one that thinks so.  Smiley
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May 17, 2011, 02:49:42 AM

Or, we could just discuss existing tax laws like adults, until someone like you comes along.  Huh  And I'm not a leech of the government teat.  I am a working individual who abhors the absurd amount of welfare dollars we give away every day, all the while going into deeper and deeper national debt.  I would like nothing more than to see all of the welfare-driven programs abolished, and the tax rate halved because of it.

Apparently, trickery, cheating other people, and tax evasion is ok in your book.  Remind me never to do business with you.

None of those things are necessary. As unrealistic as it might sound to you, if you disagree with the way taxes are being spent, live your life in a way that will ensure that you pay as few taxes as possible. I know this is difficult for most, but it's hypocritical to claim you disagree with the welfare/warfare state while continuing to pay for it.
Does anyone live their lives in a way that doesn't minimize taxes?

I'm not one that is going to dabble in tax evasion and risk getting huge fines.  It's in my own self interest to pay taxes.  Not the best thing for the community as a whole, and maybe you're right, in that I am somewhat hypocritical, but I'm not interested in going head to head with the IRS.  I DO take every deduction I can put my hands on (even though I hate deductions, and would much rather see a flat tax).  This last tax season, my effective tax rate ended up at a paltry 0.66%.

I like to voice my opinion on matters to hopefully listening ears, and I'll cast my vote in the ballot box, but in the end, I'm going to do what is best for me and my family.  And that includes paying taxes so I don't get my rear handed to me on a silver platter by the IRS later on in life.

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May 17, 2011, 02:51:04 AM

I'd say that it is quite possible that lots of 'early adopters' will end up in New Zealand. The last time I checked for new immigrants during first 4 years foreign source income is tax free there.

If you are from the US, even if you renounce citizenship, you might still be required to pay taxes if you leave the country for a few years.  It's pretty absurd.
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May 17, 2011, 03:37:21 AM

I'm a long-time user of this forum and I was finally motivated to create a special anonymous account just to trash you.

why so pussy dawg?
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May 17, 2011, 04:25:01 AM

I'm not one that is going to dabble in tax evasion and risk getting huge fines.  It's in my own self interest to pay taxes.

I would never suggest tax evasion. And I agree that it is in your self interest to pay taxes. But only due to fear of the repercussions from not paying them. Not because you agree with what they are use for.

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May 17, 2011, 04:30:16 AM

I'm not one that is going to dabble in tax evasion and risk getting huge fines.  It's in my own self interest to pay taxes.

I would never suggest tax evasion. And I agree that it is in your self interest to pay taxes. But only due to fear of the repercussions from not paying them. Not because you agree with what they are use for.
Ah, ok.  Sounds like we are in agreement then.  Wink

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May 18, 2011, 09:27:51 PM

Either way, both parties seem to be acknowledging that bitcoins is, indeed, real.  At least there is a positive in all of this. :-P

Oh, it's even better than that.  The party that acknowledged the reality of Bitcoins seems to have made out like a bandit.  While the party that had every opportunity to do so, and didn't, ends up looking like fools.

And that's exactly the way capitalism is supposed to work.  Risk brings reward.  All trades are not equal trades.  Information is not universal.  Stupidity is punished.  No one bails out the losers.

except in the USSA
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May 18, 2011, 11:04:50 PM

@knightmb:

Can you please consider helping to secure the future of Bitcoin with a little of that money? You could, say, pledge a little money on an Android Bitcoin Client. See the thread:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=1812.0

I think the android client would be massively useful to increase Bitcoin stability. This might be one of the easiest ways to get real, widespread usage of the coins, not just speculation that might end every minute. If I were to own a ridiculous amount of BTC, like you, I would spend a part of it to fix the most important weaknesses that endanger BTC value. Some changes might really make a difference. Usability on mobile phones! Acceptance in shops! You might be able to do the latter by just buying something very expensive and requesting to pay in BTC. With just a fraction of that money, many things could be set in motion; for example encouraging people to fix protocol issues the general public isn't managing to work out. *cough* we have no mining equilibrium after minting *cough*

Okay, the latter part might be asking too much. But supporting the android client in some way might really do something. Any kind of bounty or price should help to get this rolling. Or directly pay one of the programmers on here to finish that android Bitcoin client -- it's likely someone would work at low prices on this kind of project.

I'd really like to see a congress of rich Bitcoin early adopters, or something of the sort. Just discuss methods to use your current purchasing power to make Bitcoin a global scale currency. It might be the smart thing to do; it doesn't matter much whether you have 200k or 300k BTC. It matters whether they're worth 0.1 USD or 100 USD. And from what I know, values in between aren't all that likely to remain stable; Bitcoin looks like an all-or-nothing bet. If used in the right place, a few of those coins you have might increase chances in that bet.

I know I look like some beggar here, and I won't blame anyone, no matter how rich, for not doing something. I'm just suggesting these things since I honestly believe they would be in the own best interest of any early adopter.
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May 19, 2011, 09:50:36 AM

That's something I've been wondering, too.

Obviously, I wouldn't presume to advise the elder Bitcoiners.  They're rich and I'm not.
But it might be worth a thread for people to discuss how they might maximise the overall value of their Bitcoins by spending a small percentage appropriately, and how best to go about profiting personally from their assets without crashing the market.

Collusion by those who hold more than 10,000BTC would be valuable.
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May 19, 2011, 05:30:02 PM

Far out. So let me get this straight. You have just secured the ownership of the keys to 371k btc for USD$5k because the initial investors wanted out and can't be bothered to check current trading value of BTC .... and your wife is skeptical!?

That's epic.

As I said earlier, if you need to move large amounts contact me ... or have your wife contact me if she is still skeptical.
The initial investors never got the concept really. When I first started, when 1 BTC was basically $0.0001, the idea was to generate/buy as many as possible, then use it for payments. So if someone wanted a credit card that could buy $100 worth of stuff, they would insert X number of bitcoins to get that value loaded on the card. To keep the bank current, the credit card would be backed by Bitcoins at the bank basically. They initially though that 1 BTC would never get above maybe $0.20 per BTC, at least that's what I go from them. So they invested about $12k to either generated or buy bitcoins for the first part of 2010.

My part was to simply compile some versions of bitcoin that could run on the Amazon cloud service. They rented a ton of CPU time and basically generated BTC non-stop for a while. At the same time, I was buying from members here (they probably remember me buying a ton from them) and then funnel everything into one massive wallet file. After funds ran out, so did the Amazon CPU time and me bugging members to buy what they had generated from the start.

Then things sat in limbo for a while, long while. The project went bust and the people I was working with really still had no idea how BTC worked really. Soon, the project turned into zombie status and the initial investors (remember these aren't technical people in the least) though it was worthless or maybe just a fade that was dieing a quick death. Who am I to argue? That's when I offered a buy out back in Feb of this year and they took it finally.

I think after a few more stories make it in the news about the BTC value, they will kick themselves for sure.

Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin

knightmb, this is an amazing story...can I post this in my blog?
Sure, go right ahead.

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May 19, 2011, 05:30:46 PM

Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time. For legal reasons I can't blurt out who the investors were or the banks, companies, etc. they were representing basically (unless I won't to land in court forever), but I think I made a wise investment. It's still going to take a while to get my wife on board as she still doesn't understand the whole BTC concept, but everyone here knows and I know what it means. She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

I'll probably take some of the backup advise here too, why have a few backup copies when you can have many on different media types spread around everywhere (all encrypted of course this time).

Thanks for the advise everyone!

Michael Brown (knightmb), you have not told the full story here, and this is not the first time you have screwed an employer. If you do not do the right thing now, this will come back to haunt you.

You are also in over your head. Has it occurred to you that you owe $850,000 of federal income tax on this "deal"? Fortunately for you, we do not have state tax in Tennessee, but you will still owe business taxes, and you haven't even applied for the right licenses.

You have one chance to do the right thing here. You know what it is.
LOL, how many seconds did it take you google that? Yeah, my sig is in no way connected to that wallet file.  Tongue

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May 19, 2011, 05:33:03 PM

For your own sake knightmb, I hope you spent roughly triple that on iron-tight mutual indemnifications. If not, here is my advice (I'm not a lawyer, btw):

1. Get a lawyer, right now
2. On review, figure out if you need to get a settlement in place which covers all mutual indemnifications.
3. Get those things locked down. You will likely have to pay some of your $3m USD in earnings to get that sorted.

When you have a technical partner knowingly buying assets from non-technical partners for pennies on the dollar, there may well be significant repercussions. And, as someone here mentioned, it's also just kind of shitty.

Food for thought.

For those mentioning taxes -- unless he's selling his BTC, he likely doesn't have a requirement to mark his BTC to market; this is no doubt a gray area in the tax law right now. I wouldn't say he owes right now unless he's liquidating.
Actually I had something better than a lawyer, I had a legal CPA Attorney do it for me. Truthfully, anyone can sue you for anything, but I'm not worried.

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May 19, 2011, 05:34:47 PM

Good news for me anyway  Tongue , they sold me the project for $5k to recover some of their cost. I now technically own the wallet files and other software I was working on with them at the time. For legal reasons I can't blurt out who the investors were or the banks, companies, etc. they were representing basically (unless I won't to land in court forever), but I think I made a wise investment. It's still going to take a while to get my wife on board as she still doesn't understand the whole BTC concept, but everyone here knows and I know what it means. She was really skeptical about my purchase this week.

I'll probably take some of the backup advise here too, why have a few backup copies when you can have many on different media types spread around everywhere (all encrypted of course this time).

Thanks for the advise everyone!

Michael Brown (knightmb), you have not told the full story here, and this is not the first time you have screwed an employer. If you do not do the right thing now, this will come back to haunt you.

You are also in over your head. Has it occurred to you that you owe $850,000 of federal income tax on this "deal"? Fortunately for you, we do not have state tax in Tennessee, but you will still owe business taxes, and you haven't even applied for the right licenses.

You have one chance to do the right thing here. You know what it is.
LOL, how many seconds did it take you google that? Yeah, my sign is in no way connected to that wallet file.  Tongue
Besides, we all know that Lieutenant Hubert Astley Knight, M.B, died in 1906!

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May 19, 2011, 06:25:03 PM

Beacon: yeah, warpig statists need more money.  kill yourself.
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May 19, 2011, 06:53:48 PM

Wow dude.

If I where you. I'd sell 1000 BTC every month for that current prize and fuck my day job. I'd happily pay taxes on that and life my life for the next 31 years in peace and riches..

I'd just set up some company that makes 7k profit a month, pay taxes and be left with 3.5k every darn month. Easiest job ever. And who knows, by the time your 31 years older those last 1000 BTC's are worth 10000$ each.

Say worth of BTC doubles every year. 7, 14, 21, ... 7.5 billion a coin. Meh. That won't happen :') But still :p

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May 20, 2011, 12:25:44 AM

BitCoins 'mined' with your computer are a little harder, and I don't think there's good indication here as to what they are, or if they should be taxed yet -- do you have to pay taxes on a piece of art you made, and haven't sold yet? (The answer is no, even if your paintings are worth millions). In any event, I think it unlikely that BTC mined will be reported and taxable in the near future for a combination of reporting and other reasons.
Mining is a hobby for many miners, and that is treated very differently from a business.
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May 20, 2011, 12:38:42 AM

Wow dude.

If I where you. I'd sell 1000 BTC every month for that current prize and fuck my day job. I'd happily pay taxes on that and life my life for the next 31 years in peace and riches..

I'd just set up some company that makes 7k profit a month, pay taxes and be left with 3.5k every darn month. Easiest job ever. And who knows, by the time your 31 years older those last 1000 BTC's are worth 10000$ each.

Say worth of BTC doubles every year. 7, 14, 21, ... 7.5 billion a coin. Meh. That won't happen :') But still :p

This sounds terrible.

I would pay whatever was required to have all my needs met for bitcoin directly. I bet it would be easy and hardly cost extra in about 3 months. To never touch another dollar would be sweet.

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May 20, 2011, 12:52:47 AM

If I where you. I'd sell 1000 BTC every month for that current prize and fuck my day job. I'd happily pay taxes on that and life my life for the next 31 years in peace and riches..

This sounds terrible.

I would pay whatever was required to have all my needs met for bitcoin directly. I bet it would be easy and hardly cost extra in about 3 months. To never touch another dollar would be sweet.

+1

Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme. The end goal of bitcoin is to create a self-contained economy.
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May 20, 2011, 12:53:27 AM

Wow dude.

If I where you. I'd sell 1000 BTC every month for that current prize and fuck my day job. I'd happily pay taxes on that and life my life for the next 31 years in peace and riches..


I would sell the 1000 BTC a month as well as that would not effect the volume at mtgox substantially as 1 million were traded last month.  But I would keep my day job and bank the money in stocks, real estate and gold.  If bitcoin continued at similar prices after a few years THEN I would consider retiring.
 

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May 20, 2011, 09:48:19 AM

I would have to agree that knight would be a fool to leave all his gains unrealized when bitcoin is so vulnerable to threats from USG.
He'd also be a fool to talk about realizing gains on a public forum.
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May 22, 2011, 03:35:43 PM

If I where you. I'd sell 1000 BTC every month for that current prize and fuck my day job. I'd happily pay taxes on that and life my life for the next 31 years in peace and riches..

This sounds terrible.

I would pay whatever was required to have all my needs met for bitcoin directly. I bet it would be easy and hardly cost extra in about 3 months. To never touch another dollar would be sweet.

+1

Bitcoin is not a get-rich-quick scheme. The end goal of bitcoin is to create a self-contained economy.

Why so modest? Let's make it the most trusted global currency.

Of course I agree having even a small economy is a step in the right direction Wink

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June 03, 2011, 11:53:09 PM

Holy,

How does it feel to be worth 5.3 million $ :p ?

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June 04, 2011, 12:37:52 AM

A better question is

What is is like to make $1.5M in a single day without doing anything?

This is a truly awesome BTC story
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June 04, 2011, 03:57:50 AM

371,000?

Surely you can spare this not so wealthy first time father a couple hundred coins?

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June 04, 2011, 04:28:19 AM

knightmb, you should use a portion of your fortune to make a big time transaction.  Maybe buy a Tesla Roadster.  Maybe you could talk to Elon Musk directly about it.  I mean hey you've got 5 million right now and the sky is the limit.  Some big purchase would get lots of attention.  You'll probably be a billionaire within the year.

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June 04, 2011, 04:46:14 AM

knightmb, you should use a portion of your fortune to make a big time transaction.  Maybe buy a Tesla Roadster.  Maybe you could talk to Elon Musk directly about it.  I mean hey you've got 5 million right now and the sky is the limit.  Some big purchase would get lots of attention.  You'll probably be a billionaire within the year.

He might not want that kind of attention though I love the idea and love the Tesla.  I wish I had one!

Today, besides bitcoin.....  Real estate is a steal in many places.   That is what I would buy.  Not lots.  Just some cherry picked good deals. 


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June 04, 2011, 05:23:02 AM

Hey now your worth $5 million...

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June 04, 2011, 10:51:42 AM

And today you are worth 6.3 million. Fuck. He earns 1 million $'s in one day :p

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June 04, 2011, 12:16:35 PM

well, his last 360K coins or so would get him $0 if he sold it all in one fell swoop but yeah kind of
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June 08, 2011, 02:51:29 AM

approaching $10m, good sir!
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June 08, 2011, 04:30:02 AM

...and hit it a few hours later...
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June 08, 2011, 05:07:58 AM

who is this guy and will he pls stand up!  Lips sealed
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June 08, 2011, 07:39:45 AM

if he's smart he's destroyed all evidence linking him to his online persona.
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June 09, 2011, 03:51:15 AM

knightmb is either scared for his life right now, hired a top-notch security crew/bodyguard(s), or fled the country with backup encrypted flash drives.  Who knows, maybe he bought an island and named it Bitcoin Island  Grin

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June 09, 2011, 05:06:13 AM

knightmb is either scared for his life right now, hired a top-notch security crew/bodyguard(s), or fled the country with backup encrypted flash drives.  Who knows, maybe he bought an island and named it Bitcoin Island  Grin

This ^^

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June 09, 2011, 05:55:20 AM

Oh, I'm still alive and kicking.  Grin

Yeah, still have them, though like was said, it would not be possible to sell them all at once and become an instant millionaire.  No one is going to buy that many at once. I have kept my client running 24/7 since then though, managed to generate a bit more before the collective mining groups took over  Wink

Without the massive server farm I had going before, I'm just down to my personal desktop, so it's never gotten over the 371k since.

I do keep many, many backups though just in case  Cool

In my view, you'll be a multi-millionaire in about 20+ years, if it all goes according to 'plan'... not before.
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June 09, 2011, 10:13:07 AM

Dude,

Spend it !
Keeping money only gives you more headaches...
Take the family for a trip around the world have a good time.
Convert the money into fun experience and good for others.
When nothing is left, the experiences and good feelings remain - and no one can/will sue you for those (especially if you are broke and back to where you were 2 years ago).
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June 09, 2011, 12:39:28 PM

Or form a foundation which owns a bunch of offshore companies and cook island trusts which own bitcoins and bitcoin funded businesses.

Nobody can take those money than BK or not.

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June 09, 2011, 02:14:16 PM

Think of all the sockless children you could outfit in a new pair of Alpaca wools!!
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June 09, 2011, 03:52:37 PM

I agree that people should use some of them to buy tangible things.  If the market (btc or USD or any market) crashes, then they can't take away your house if it's paid for, your car, etc, etc.
 
I'm not saying spend a ton, just whatever your comfortable with. 
 
If I was sitting on 300k btc, I'd totally buy a boat Smiley

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June 09, 2011, 04:10:54 PM

I think he can take out about 50.000$ a day without crashing the market. Would last him 8-9 months, a good timeline to liquidate and after that just live your life to the fullest as a multimillionaire Smiley

Too bad for all the poor souls ending up with worthless bits. Meh, just feed some hungry African children, those fat capitalistic geeks had it to good anyway. The Bitcoin Robin Hood !
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June 11, 2011, 08:15:01 PM

Folks like knightmb are actually the kind of people I'd love to hear most about.

The ones who were there, whether out of cleverness or idealism, when it all was still < 1$ stuff and a day of CPU cycles netted you double digits of BTC.

They are very much like lottery winners, but with a twist.
Basically they have been given immense opportunity to be "someone else" simply for "having been there" (sponsored by anyone gullible enough to help drive prices up hundredfold since then), and I have always been curious about the giant "what if" of money vs no money plus people.

These are the real stories imho. Not blah will regulators shut it down, blubb how high can we go, blerp bubblecrashworldrevolutionwhatevs.


More of these individuals should come forward and put forth their stories, be it here or on IAMA(BTC millionaire, e.g.) / reddit or something.

knightmb, congrats.
You have my best of well-wishes. I hope you manage to create as much real cash and accordingly cool real life experience out of this as at all possible.

Ho-Hum.
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June 18, 2011, 04:09:22 PM

haha knightmb,

you were very lucky and still are. know what? i would be very happy about 10k btc.
and because you really are not happier with 371k then with 361k (you know it!), you should really send 10k btc to me at 1AWqSp8zh1BPYaN96UE8KxLzKg7Kd9SoTn Smiley

I don't expect anything, but I am listening at 18WN5YRGaBKGPus4n8QHuF7YnyzyDxMRQ6 Wink
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June 18, 2011, 04:51:06 PM

haha knightmb,

you were very lucky and still are. know what? i would be very happy about 10k btc.
and because you really are not happier with 371k then with 361k (you know it!), you should really send 10k btc to me at 1AWqSp8zh1BPYaN96UE8KxLzKg7Kd9SoTn Smiley

Your asking for Sixteen Thousand Dollars. And your putting it in such a way asif it's nothing to him.
Ask a multimillionare why they dont go around down giving the homeless money, And see what they say.
It's probly gonna something amung the lines of "a penny saved is a penny earned, Do it 100times, And you got yourself a dollar"

160THOUSAND dollars is still ONE HUNDRED SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS, It Doesnt matter how much you have, If people just passed out cash like your asking then he wouldnt have money

It's undeniable that anyone would ask for some money from a multimillionare if they themselves werent doing so well.

Your asking for 160k, and saying "oh you wont notice a difference, this is meager to you, Make me happy"

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June 18, 2011, 04:52:06 PM

I think it was mostly a joke...

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June 18, 2011, 05:27:01 PM

Damn, you are set for life Tongue

I barely have one bitcoin Sad

You're standing on a flagstone running with blood, alone and so very lonely because you can't choose but you had to

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June 18, 2011, 05:29:50 PM

Damn, you are set for life Tongue

I barely have one bitcoin Sad
me too :[[

Tip me?
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June 21, 2011, 07:41:01 AM

Sure hope he didnt have it all sitting on MTgox!  lol
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June 21, 2011, 09:21:55 AM

damn

you are one lucky and smart bastard





i would not come back to respond knowing my ip would be tracked
i would hire some security experts and get the fuck out of America

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June 21, 2011, 09:23:28 AM

No, last time I read the guy had it offline and backed up in multiple locations...

Still though if the value of btc crashes to 0 he's still screwed...


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June 23, 2011, 05:24:21 PM

No, last time I read the guy had it offline and backed up in multiple locations...

Still though if the value of btc crashes to 0 he's still screwed...


Not more screwed than the rest of us, though.

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June 24, 2011, 12:12:59 AM

No, last time I read the guy had it offline and backed up in multiple locations...

Still though if the value of btc crashes to 0 he's still screwed...


Not more screwed than the rest of us, though.

Yep..I'm willing to bet some BTC that he already cashed out a decent chunk of that. Tis all wild speculation, but I salute him for managing to carry the torch till the end.

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June 25, 2011, 06:39:18 PM

No, last time I read the guy had it offline and backed up in multiple locations...

Still though if the value of btc crashes to 0 he's still screwed...


Not more screwed than the rest of us, though.

Yep..I'm willing to bet some BTC that he already cashed out a decent chunk of that. Tis all wild speculation, but I salute him for managing to carry the torch till the end.

What end?

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June 25, 2011, 09:40:36 PM

No, last time I read the guy had it offline and backed up in multiple locations...

Still though if the value of btc crashes to 0 he's still screwed...


Not more screwed than the rest of us, though.

Yep..I'm willing to bet some BTC that he already cashed out a decent chunk of that. Tis all wild speculation, but I salute him for managing to carry the torch till the end.

What end?

The end of bitcoin (assuming such an eventuality)....

You think he can cash out that gigantic stash in case of a panick!? He's going down with the ship and there isn't one damn thing he can do about it. The big holders know that at least for now they're sort of stuck. They have to be long term bitcoin bulls. They can't sell out any time soon that is for sure.

But let's not think such negative thoughts.

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June 26, 2011, 05:08:22 AM


Sell out why? .... they can just trickle them in over a long period of time ... as and when is needed.

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"Disintermediating the State."
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June 26, 2011, 05:11:28 AM


Sell out why? .... they can just trickle them in over a long period of time ... as and when is needed.
This.

The big holders are probably the ones responsible for not letting the price get up too high.  Many of them are probably trickling themselves a nice $10k/month or so.

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June 26, 2011, 05:14:18 AM


Sell out why? .... they can just trickle them in over a long period of time ... as and when is needed.

True, but time carries risk.

@SgtSpike, that could be true..but in that case it will turn into a game of who can hold out the longest / resist the urge to sell. Honestly if I had 300K I'd sell half and keep the other in a paper wallet and just forget about it for several years. It's a pretty big gamble but it could pay off huge in the end - assuming that you don't need to sell BTC to survive or sustain your lifestyle.


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June 26, 2011, 05:26:05 AM


Sell out why? .... they can just trickle them in over a long period of time ... as and when is needed.

True, but time carries risk.

@SgtSpike, that could be true..but in that case it will turn into a game of who can hold out the longest / resist the urge to sell. Honestly if I had 300K I'd sell half and keep the other in a paper wallet and just forget about it for several years. It's a pretty big gamble but it could pay off huge in the end - assuming that you don't need to sell BTC to survive or sustain your lifestyle.



ah no ... you had 25,000 and you left them lying around on an insecure computer that is what you would do .... mouthing off about what big holders of BTC are doing is not such a good look given your purported circumstances.

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June 26, 2011, 05:36:25 AM

WoW you guys are necros but this is a good post Smiley

makes me wonder what I'd ever do If I had that kinda of power!
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June 26, 2011, 05:37:11 AM

Quote
ah no ... you had 25,000 and you left them lying around on an insecure computer that is what you would do ....


 Grin
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June 27, 2011, 04:40:32 AM

har har..laught it up, but if you bothered to actually read my post you'd understand that I was saying what I would do if I had that much in hindsigh of the experience I've went through. Obviously I would not repeat that mistake.

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June 16, 2012, 06:48:06 AM

Anything new on knightmb and his 371 kBTC?
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June 16, 2012, 11:05:47 AM

Anything new on knightmb and his 371 kBTC?

wow, you just remembered him? what did trigger that memory?

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June 16, 2012, 12:18:59 PM

I was just wondering about him, too.  Anyone know anything?
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June 16, 2012, 04:30:07 PM

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June 16, 2012, 09:29:04 PM

I still lurk around the forums   Wink

Someone did send me a message asking to come out and say hi.  Smiley

When I get more time later, I'll put up a good long post about what has been going on all this time. As most can imagine, I try to avoid the the spotlight, although my name seems to come up in bitcoin articles from time to time. Overall, just like to keep my privacy. As I said though, when I get more time later I'll type up a nice long "what the heck has been going on" post.  Grin

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June 16, 2012, 09:36:03 PM

I still lurk around the forums   Wink

Someone did send me a message asking to come out and say hi.  Smiley

When I get more time later, I'll put up a good long post about what has been going on all this time. As most can imagine, I try to avoid the the spotlight, although my name seems to come up in bitcoin articles from time to time. Overall, just like to keep my privacy. As I said though, when I get more time later I'll type up a nice long "what the heck has been going on" post.  Grin
You're probably sticking your head out more than a healthy person would, which is admirable. Stay safe!
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June 16, 2012, 09:46:09 PM

I still lurk around the forums   Wink

Someone did send me a message asking to come out and say hi.  Smiley

When I get more time later, I'll put up a good long post about what has been going on all this time. As most can imagine, I try to avoid the the spotlight, although my name seems to come up in bitcoin articles from time to time. Overall, just like to keep my privacy. As I said though, when I get more time later I'll type up a nice long "what the heck has been going on" post.  Grin

Ill love to read it!
Also, stories like yours are those, that give Bitcoin a charming character.
When there are amiable tales about soldiers of fortune like you in the news,
people like to read it just for fun. So please stay on the news and spread the word as a bitcoin icon! (anonymously if you like)

★☆★BITCOIN -The Documentary- The first feature-length docu on Bitcoin!★☆★
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June 17, 2012, 10:10:46 AM

I still lurk around the forums   ;)

Someone did send me a message asking to come out and say hi.  :)

When I get more time later, I'll put up a good long post about what has been going on all this time. As most can imagine, I try to avoid the the spotlight, although my name seems to come up in bitcoin articles from time to time. Overall, just like to keep my privacy. As I said though, when I get more time later I'll type up a nice long "what the heck has been going on" post.  ;D

Can't wait for that story :)
Stay safe.
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June 19, 2012, 05:09:43 AM

Well, here goes a long spiel.

Probably the last that anyone had heard from me before a few days ago was dated September, 2011 according to my profile stats. So it has been a long time of me just lurking around from time to time.

I can't remember exactly when, but some story broke on the Internet about my bitcoin collection and shortly afterwards things got crazy.

The first thing that happened was my inbox here at the forum exploded with people asking for a loan of anywhere from 10k to 100k bitcoins to start the next big market place. I had a few people message me here that they had been burned by a hacker or some website that had their wallet information and asked for anywhere from 100 to 1k bitcoins as a way to help them recover their loss. I always wanted to help people, but there is no well to tell if these were sincere request or just someone out to make a quick bitcoin scam. Some of those I did help people I did help just to be nice, but word must have gotten around quick.

I had to step back from the forums for a while as it was a good place for people to chase me down. All the questions of what I would do with it or how did I get it, was I the one that hacked XYZ website and that's why I have so many, etc. Somewhere in this topic I think, is a another long explanation of how I came into possession of it all. Long story short, I was in bitcoin early when the network was small and basically used a lot of Amazon processing power to load up a ton of bitcoin miners all at once in their clusters (Amazon) using a custom compiled version of the CentOS bitcoind source files. Amazon had a big price difference between running a lot of windows sessions and running a lot of Linux sessions. Turns out, the Linux sessions were running kind of an old version of CentOS as well as I couldn't even get the compiled binaries to run.

Well, a lot of money was spent to generate that chunk of bitcoins, but not so I could posses it all, there were plans to use it as a backing for re-loadable credit cards like service that had bitcoin powering it in the background. Needless to say, that project fell out due to (at least in hindsight) very inept investors. The project floundered and then finally as a way to get out, they (investors) wanted to see what they could sell everything for. It had cost a lot of real money to produce that pile of bitcoins, so I ended up buying it for dirt cheap (at least in terms that bitcoins really had no value to them). Maybe after the 7 year NDS I signed expires, the world will know who it was, but for now I can't name anyone or business.

Once the market value was shooting up to space, the pile of bitcoins was worth a small fortune in theory at least.

A lot of bitcoins were spread around the community to help people at first, but it kind of got out of hand.
Ultimately, a large portion ended up being donated to wikileaks.org, so I'm certainly not the person sitting up top a large pile of bitcoins anymore. The rest went to paying off small debts and the very last of it was just recently donated to wikileaks.org again. I never had any intention of trying to crash the bitcoin market with a large sell-off as many theorized I would do. So sleep safe that there is one less person like me in the bitcoin kingdom.  Grin

So, no matter what legend has built up, nothing amazing or exciting has happened to the bitcoins I once had. No buying a Country or purchasing Islands of the sort. Just trying to help out where I could instead. The only thing I have left is old screenshots and empty wallet files now.

A large portion of my past time has actually been invested in the creation of an alternate digital currency for the last few years because I always thought there was a better way to do it. So that's where I spend all my time now, at timekoin.org

I was great to catch up with everyone though, hopefully the story wasn't too boring. Maybe not as exciting as some had hoped.

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June 19, 2012, 05:25:51 AM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.
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June 19, 2012, 05:40:50 AM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that he gave up that much money.

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June 19, 2012, 05:53:16 AM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that he gave up that much money.

A lot of early users gave up a  lot of their bitcoins. Most of mine went to the weusecoins video for example. Maybe we just liked the idea of bitcoin more than the idea of being a tycoon Smiley

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June 19, 2012, 06:51:34 AM

Just curious knightmb, to quiet all the naysayers, can you point us to the transaction of the donation to wikileaks?

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June 19, 2012, 07:48:11 AM

A large portion of my past time has actually been invested in the creation of an alternate digital currency for the last few years because I always thought there was a better way to do it. So that's where I spend all my time now, at timekoin.org

Wait, this whole thing was just an advert for a Bitcoin alternative? Genius Smiley

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June 19, 2012, 11:49:12 AM

So that's where I spend all my time now, at timekoin.org

This is a quote from the site:
Quote
The Timekoin economy runs on very simple rules. These rules are enforced by all peers participating in the network.
No hard limit on currency. The only restraint is math itself.

If this means that there is no upper limit on the total amount of "coins" that can be generated - i.e. infinite inflation, than this will fail unfortunately.
All currencies must be inherently scarce, otherwise failure is guaranteed.
.
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June 19, 2012, 11:55:18 AM

So that's where I spend all my time now, at timekoin.org

This is a quote from the site:
Quote
The Timekoin economy runs on very simple rules. These rules are enforced by all peers participating in the network.
No hard limit on currency. The only restraint is math itself.

If this means that there is no upper limit on the total amount of "coins" that can be generated - i.e. infinite inflation, than this will fail unfortunately.
All currencies must be inherently scarce, otherwise failure is guaranteed.
.

There is only so many hours in a day Im guessing Smiley

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June 19, 2012, 02:00:28 PM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that he gave up that much money.

Exactly ! This story is BS and this guy is just waiting to cash out when we reach $10 in Dec.

Hope I do it before him, though !
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June 19, 2012, 02:07:57 PM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that he gave up that much money.

Exactly ! This story is BS and this guy is just waiting to cash out when we reach $10 in Dec.

Hope I do it before him, though !

Cash out? Why would he? Start spending some of his BTC, or converting some into fiat, perhaps... but cash out makes no sense at all.
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June 19, 2012, 02:11:08 PM

Well, that was disappointing. If it's true, that is :p
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June 19, 2012, 02:25:38 PM

Just curious knightmb, to quiet all the naysayers, can you point us to the transaction of the donation to wikileaks?

oh come on, are you serious? Cut him some slack. This guy is in no position to have to prove anything. Believe what you want and give him the benefit of the doubt so he can play a "normal" part in this community again.

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June 19, 2012, 02:27:01 PM

A large portion of my past time has actually been invested in the creation of an alternate digital currency for the last few years because I always thought there was a better way to do it. So that's where I spend all my time now, at timekoin.org

Wait, this whole thing was just an advert for a Bitcoin alternative? Genius Smiley

No, bitcoin was just a market research test baloon for timekoin that accidentally got out of hand.

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June 19, 2012, 02:28:18 PM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that he gave up that much money.

Exactly ! This story is BS and this guy is just waiting to cash out when we reach $10 in Dec.

Hope I do it before him, though !

Like he said before, it's his retirement funding. He's too smart to sell it for a measly $10 in crappy fiat this year.

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June 19, 2012, 04:02:36 PM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that he gave up that much money.

Exactly ! This story is BS and this guy is just waiting to cash out when we reach $10 in Dec.

Hope I do it before him, though !

Like he said before, it's his retirement funding. He's too smart to sell it for a measly $10 in crappy fiat this year.

Retirement funding ?

371 000 * 10 = 3 710 000 USD would suit 3 retirements for a normal human lifetime ! Is this guy a shapeshifting alien that is going to live 300 years ?
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June 19, 2012, 04:03:17 PM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that he gave up that much money.

Wikileaks seems to have received ~2989 BTC from 994 transactions to their current address.
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June 19, 2012, 04:03:59 PM

That's a nice attempt.
Either way, I'm keeping my BTC in several secure places and the wallet files I'll make sure never touch my PC for security reasons. I look at it as a retirement fund, when I finally get tired of working the 9 to 5 grind, I can tell my boss to shove it with a smile  Grin
"Just kidding; I donated it all to Wikileaks" isn't going to hold, although I do see why you would want to get all that heat off your back.

Yeah, I find it very hard to believe that he gave up that much money.

Wikileaks seems to have received ~2989 BTC from 994 transactions to their current address.
They also hand out addresses on request if you join IRC and talk to the bot.

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June 19, 2012, 04:07:57 PM

They also hand out addresses on request if you join IRC and talk to the bot.

Oh ok. Smiley Good thing. Thanks for letting me know.
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June 19, 2012, 05:40:19 PM

Just curious knightmb, to quiet all the naysayers, can you point us to the transaction of the donation to wikileaks?

oh come on, are you serious? Cut him some slack. This guy is in no position to have to prove anything. Believe what you want and give him the benefit of the doubt so he can play a "normal" part in this community again.

@ knightmb:

As much as I wish you to pursue happiness in your own chosen way, playing the "normal" part in this community is over.
With all your money and background comes a lot of power and responsibility. You can step up to it, take it in your own hands and build something meaningful, or abandon the chances destiny gave you. Its your choice. But with regards to Bitcoin things will never go back to normal for you.

★☆★BITCOIN -The Documentary- The first feature-length docu on Bitcoin!★☆★
Be part of it! Be creative! Give us your best ideas, personal contributions and maybe a little donationWink
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June 19, 2012, 09:14:32 PM

Just curious knightmb, to quiet all the naysayers, can you point us to the transaction of the donation to wikileaks?

oh come on, are you serious? Cut him some slack. This guy is in no position to have to prove anything. Believe what you want and give him the benefit of the doubt so he can play a "normal" part in this community again.

@ knightmb:

As much as I wish you to pursue happiness in your own chosen way, playing the "normal" part in this community is over.
With all your money and background comes a lot of power and responsibility. You can step up to it, take it in your own hands and build something meaningful, or abandon the chances destiny gave you. Its your choice. But with regards to Bitcoin things will never go back to normal for you.

Depends what normal was .... sleeping under an Interstate flyover and cradling a bottle of cheap red to sleep is normal for some folks ... before (and after?) bitcoin.

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June 21, 2012, 07:56:23 AM

wow, you just remembered him? what did trigger that memory?

This: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87408.0
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June 21, 2012, 07:58:23 AM