BTCD is no more

[bitkokos2]

Would the BTCD dev team consider updating the staking algorithm to PoSP used with Cryptogenic Bullion CBX?

With PoSP (PoS participation) only wallets that are open and staking actually earn any stakes, so if you never open your wallet you never earn any stake interest. With BTCD I open my wallet once a week or so, sync up, get my stake coins, then close my wallet. I earn the same stake interest (almost) as a guy running a wallet 24/7. With PoSP the guy running 24/7 gets A LOT more stakes as reward for his efforts, and I'd get nothing, zip, ziltch! Why reward people who don't help secure the network by running their wallet long enough to contribute?

With CBX the stake rate is usually 8-14%, BUT the inflation is set in stone at 2%. The incentive is obvious, STAKE, or get nothing, and the more you stake the greater your overall % of coin cap becomes. Aging coins earning interest in offline wallets has terrible incentives compared to PoSP.

IMO PoSP is fair, and encourages coin holders to stake and secure the chain. Would BTCD devs consider a switch?

I like this idea as well.

Nice post and thanks for bringing this to the forum!  

Being that I stake 24/7, I'd support PoSP as well, as it does appear to be fair and seems that it would drive true loyal hodlers to stake and support their network. Those of us actually strengthening the network should be rewarded accordingly.


NWweight:61,399

This would also disappoint early holders who wanted to invest with what they saw at the beginning.
I also support the network by staking but I don't like the idea of not receiving the 5% if I am not staking.
Perhaps if you increase the dividents or even add an extra % for those who stake could be better.
Incentive drives more people "in" than punishment
"If you don't stake we will remove your 5%" is a punishment.
This is based on human psychology.
If everything started like this from the beginning I wouldn't mind. But, 2 years later it's like a punishment.

I'm a holder since July 2014 and the BTCD landscape has completely changed since it's inception. I have to disagree

I am also a miner and holder since 14 July 2014. I have to disagree too.

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[ethought]

Does anyone know if there is a problem with the following block explorer:

http://explorebtcd.info/

It is showing me the incorrect balance for an address - the balance shown on the explorer is significantly more than has been sent to the address in question.

Check in coin control you may have another BTCD address which does not appear in your "Receive coins" list.
This happened to me last week too.

To see coin control you have to go to settings, then options, and then click Display tab. Then check Display coin control features.
After you finish go back to your wallet and click the Send coins button.
Click inputs and check there if all of your coins are in the address you are looking or if there is another address with the rest of the coins you don't see in the block explorer.

Thank you for your reply.

However I am actually seeing the opposite problem.

The explorer is showing a higher balance for a single address than it should be - NOT a lower balance. Was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this.

[clovis A.]

Would the BTCD dev team consider updating the staking algorithm to PoSP used with Cryptogenic Bullion CBX?

With PoSP (PoS participation) only wallets that are open and staking actually earn any stakes, so if you never open your wallet you never earn any stake interest. With BTCD I open my wallet once a week or so, sync up, get my stake coins, then close my wallet. I earn the same stake interest (almost) as a guy running a wallet 24/7. With PoSP the guy running 24/7 gets A LOT more stakes as reward for his efforts, and I'd get nothing, zip, ziltch! Why reward people who don't help secure the network by running their wallet long enough to contribute?

With CBX the stake rate is usually 8-14%, BUT the inflation is set in stone at 2%. The incentive is obvious, STAKE, or get nothing, and the more you stake the greater your overall % of coin cap becomes. Aging coins earning interest in offline wallets has terrible incentives compared to PoSP.

IMO PoSP is fair, and encourages coin holders to stake and secure the chain. Would BTCD devs consider a switch?

I like this idea as well.

Nice post and thanks for bringing this to the forum!  

Being that I stake 24/7, I'd support PoSP as well, as it does appear to be fair and seems that it would drive true loyal hodlers to stake and support their network. Those of us actually strengthening the network should be rewarded accordingly.


NWweight:61,399

This would also disappoint early holders who wanted to invest with what they saw at the beginning.
I also support the network by staking but I don't like the idea of not receiving the 5% if I am not staking.
Perhaps if you increase the dividents or even add an extra % for those who stake could be better.
Incentive drives more people "in" than punishment
"If you don't stake we will remove your 5%" is a punishment.
This is based on human psychology.
If everything started like this from the beginning I wouldn't mind. But, 2 years later it's like a punishment.

I'm a holder since July 2014 and the BTCD landscape has completely changed since it's inception. I have to disagree

I am also a miner and holder since 14 July 2014. I have to disagree too.

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree, in that case 

Although, to support my argument, let me remind you that in the early stages of BTCD that you referenced, there was no teleport, no telepathy, no supernet, no iguana, no web based wallet......need I continue?

So, to say that holders would be dissappointed with change is somewhat laughable, since there has only been change since btcd began.  But, like i said, I'm content with respectfully agreeing to disagree.

peace,
clovis

[criptix]

Would the BTCD dev team consider updating the staking algorithm to PoSP used with Cryptogenic Bullion CBX?

With PoSP (PoS participation) only wallets that are open and staking actually earn any stakes, so if you never open your wallet you never earn any stake interest. With BTCD I open my wallet once a week or so, sync up, get my stake coins, then close my wallet. I earn the same stake interest (almost) as a guy running a wallet 24/7. With PoSP the guy running 24/7 gets A LOT more stakes as reward for his efforts, and I'd get nothing, zip, ziltch! Why reward people who don't help secure the network by running their wallet long enough to contribute?

With CBX the stake rate is usually 8-14%, BUT the inflation is set in stone at 2%. The incentive is obvious, STAKE, or get nothing, and the more you stake the greater your overall % of coin cap becomes. Aging coins earning interest in offline wallets has terrible incentives compared to PoSP.

IMO PoSP is fair, and encourages coin holders to stake and secure the chain. Would BTCD devs consider a switch?

I like this idea as well.

Nice post and thanks for bringing this to the forum! 

Being that I stake 24/7, I'd support PoSP as well, as it does appear to be fair and seems that it would drive true loyal hodlers to stake and support their network. Those of us actually strengthening the network should be rewarded accordingly.


NWweight:61,399

This would also disappoint early holders who wanted to invest with what they saw at the beginning.
I also support the network by staking but I don't like the idea of not receiving the 5% if I am not staking.
Perhaps if you increase the dividents or even add an extra % for those who stake could be better.
Incentive drives more people "in" than punishment
"If you don't stake we will remove your 5%" is a punishment.
This is based on human psychology.
If everything started like this from the beginning I wouldn't mind. But, 2 years later it's like a punishment.

I'm a holder since July 2014 and the BTCD landscape has completely changed since it's inception. I have to disagree

I am also a miner and holder since 14 July 2014. I have to disagree too.

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree, in that case 

Although, to support my argument, let me remind you that in the early stages of BTCD that you referenced, there was no teleport, no telepathy, no supernet, no iguana, no web based wallet......need I continue?

So, to say that holders would be dissappointed with change is somewhat laughable, since there has only been change since btcd began.  But, like i said, I'm content with respectfully agreeing to disagree.

peace,
clovis

Well btcd was once traded at x10 the price we had for the last 1 year or something around that line.
And at that time we didnt had all that features ( do we have it now?)  except teleport and supernet maybe?

Just some food for thought.

Edit
Typos

[clovis A.]

Very true criptix, but it's not my fault if traders didn't take a little profit along the way.  That's why I'm happy to buy low once again.....because I know the prices we saw in the early days will return.  

I should have said, only if you held all of your coins this entire time would you be disappointed. Can't please everyone, but if you were smart and took some profit, your perspective may be different

[bitkokos2]

Would the BTCD dev team consider updating the staking algorithm to PoSP used with Cryptogenic Bullion CBX?

With PoSP (PoS participation) only wallets that are open and staking actually earn any stakes, so if you never open your wallet you never earn any stake interest. With BTCD I open my wallet once a week or so, sync up, get my stake coins, then close my wallet. I earn the same stake interest (almost) as a guy running a wallet 24/7. With PoSP the guy running 24/7 gets A LOT more stakes as reward for his efforts, and I'd get nothing, zip, ziltch! Why reward people who don't help secure the network by running their wallet long enough to contribute?

With CBX the stake rate is usually 8-14%, BUT the inflation is set in stone at 2%. The incentive is obvious, STAKE, or get nothing, and the more you stake the greater your overall % of coin cap becomes. Aging coins earning interest in offline wallets has terrible incentives compared to PoSP.

IMO PoSP is fair, and encourages coin holders to stake and secure the chain. Would BTCD devs consider a switch?

I like this idea as well.

Nice post and thanks for bringing this to the forum!  

Being that I stake 24/7, I'd support PoSP as well, as it does appear to be fair and seems that it would drive true loyal hodlers to stake and support their network. Those of us actually strengthening the network should be rewarded accordingly.


NWweight:61,399

This would also disappoint early holders who wanted to invest with what they saw at the beginning.
I also support the network by staking but I don't like the idea of not receiving the 5% if I am not staking.
Perhaps if you increase the dividents or even add an extra % for those who stake could be better.
Incentive drives more people "in" than punishment
"If you don't stake we will remove your 5%" is a punishment.
This is based on human psychology.
If everything started like this from the beginning I wouldn't mind. But, 2 years later it's like a punishment.

I'm a holder since July 2014 and the BTCD landscape has completely changed since it's inception. I have to disagree

I am also a miner and holder since 14 July 2014. I have to disagree too.

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree, in that case 

Although, to support my argument, let me remind you that in the early stages of BTCD that you referenced, there was no teleport, no telepathy, no supernet, no iguana, no web based wallet......need I continue?

So, to say that holders would be dissappointed with change is somewhat laughable, since there has only been change since btcd began.  But, like i said, I'm content with respectfully agreeing to disagree.

peace,
clovis

I strongly agree with you. Those were additions to the coin and nobody had a reason to complain.
Removing the PoS is not an addition lets say for me who bought most of my BTCD at 0.014BTC with fiat and I am down by 600% or to my decision to sell other coins in order to buy more BTCD. Now what? Should I pay electricity to get the 5% I was told at the beginning I should be getting for free (PoS)?

[criptix]

Very true criptix, but it's not my fault if traders didn't take a little profit along the way.  That's why I'm happy to buy low once again.....because I know the prices we saw in the early days will return.  

I should have said, only if you held all of your coins this entire time would you be disappointed. Can't please everyone, but if you were smart and took some profit, your perspective may be different

Yeah i totaly agree there it is a matter of perspective and your buy-in price

[clovis A.]

@bitkokos: I'll say it one more time.....you can't please everyone

If you bought high, of course you're most likely going to be disappointed no matter what changes are brought to the table.  

If you choose to truly support this coin and stake 24/7, then PoSP is an interesting and viable option.

[bitkokos2]

@bitkokos: I'll say it one more time.....you can't please everyone

If you bought high, of course you're most likely going to be disappointed no matter what changes are brought to the table.  

If you choose to truly support this coin and stake 24/7, then PoSP is an interesting and viable option.

That's what I say too. You can't please everyone and I am sorry if you are disappointed too.
And if there is any such change, no, I will not keep staking. Everybody knows that you can not only make 5% but multiples of that just by buying and selling BTCD.

[criptix]

I think it would be better to look at vericoins PoST because active staker get more % while not active staking still gives interest.

[bitkokos2]

I think it would be better to look at vericoins PoST because active staker get more % while not active staking still gives interest.

That's what I previously said. If they want to make change they should keep the 5% PoS and give additional % for stakers.

[clovis A.]

I'm not disappointed in any way @bitkokos......just happy to be taking part in this conversation

Most likely, the PoS will remain the same, but it was fun chatting either way. We're all hodlers, so we're on the same team.  It's good to be part of this community with you dudes!!

Take care guys, gotta run for now.

peace!

[bitkokos2]

I'm not disappointed in any way @bitkokos......just happy to be taking part in this conversation

Most likely, the PoS will remain the same, but it was fun chatting either way. We're all hodlers, so we're on the same team.  It's good to be part of this community with you dudes!!

Take care guys, gotta run for now.

peace!

Keep hodling my friend 

[kennyP]

Thanks for the open discussion of my PoSP suggestion guys!

I agree that changing to a PoSP system where coins in closed wallets don't earn stake interest would upset people who don't stake often ... but would that be a problem? You could always have a long lead time to give people plenty of warning to sell out of BTCD if they wanted to. CBX has been around since 2013 and they only converted to PoSP in Jan 2016.

I've never had the hardware for PoW mining, and I am convinced that the wasted electricity of PoW is a BIG adoption problem for btc, but I've always believed that the incentives for unknown parties to work together to secure the decentralised system built into PoW by satoshi are pure genius - the blockchain tech combined with the decentralised incentives of miners is the genius invention.

Unfortunately, you can't say the same about conventional staking. The incentives don't encourage people to support the network by staking because coins in offline wallets earn the same stake as coins in online wallets. There's a very slight compounding advantage gained by 24/7 wallets, but it's negligible.

In a competitive world the rational multi-coin owner like myself will stake for the minimum time required to earn their stake, then they'll close that wallet and open the next one. That's what I do anyway. I love BTCD for all it offers, but I don't stake 24/7, I can't.

I've been interested in PoS since Peercoin, and I've probably downloaded and staked nearly every PoS coin around, but I've never had the resources to stake coins 24/7, so I rotate the wallets I'm syncing at any point in time, but I never run wallets 24/7 ... until I discovered CBX and PoSP that is. PoSP incentives make me want to run CBX 24/7, so I increase my overall stake in the coin - I earn 8-14%, but inflation is only 2%. No other PoS coin I know of has this incentive.

Conventional staking where coins age in closed offline wallets is a zero sum game. You stake to tread water. It's like a standard bank account earning X% interest when the CPI inflation is X% also - the real return is ZERO! It's like methodone, there's no 'hit' as such, you just stake to not fall behind.

After 3 years of staking coins I'm convinced PoSP is the best algorithm to secure a PoS coin like BTCD. With PoSP you don't stake for a real return of ZERO, the real return is actually positive, and the overall effect is a lot more staking wallets, and a much more secure network.

I think it's a no-brainer!


edit: Here's the CBX PoSP whitepaper http://cryptobullion.io/white-paper/

[bitkokos2]

Thanks for the open discussion of my PoSP suggestion guys!

I agree that changing to a PoSP system where coins in closed wallets don't earn stake interest would upset people who don't stake often ... but would that be a problem? You could always have a long lead time to give people plenty of warning to sell out of BTCD if they wanted to. CBX has been around since 2013 and they only converted to PoSP in Jan 2016.

I've never had the hardware for PoW mining, and I am convinced that the wasted electricity of PoW is a BIG adoption problem for btc, but I've always believed that the incentives for unknown parties to work together to secure the decentralised system built into PoW by satoshi are pure genius - the blockchain tech combined with the decentralised incentives of miners is the genius invention.

Unfortunately, you can't say the same about conventional staking. The incentives don't encourage people to support the network by staking because coins in offline wallets earn the same stake as coins in online wallets. There's a very slight compounding advantage gained by 24/7 wallets, but it's negligible.

In a competitive world the rational multi-coin owner like myself will stake for the minimum time required to earn their stake, then they'll close that wallet and open the next one. That's what I do anyway. I love BTCD for all it offers, but I don't stake 24/7, I can't.

I've been interested in PoS since Peercoin, and I've probably downloaded and staked nearly every PoS coin around, but I've never had the resources to stake coins 24/7, so I rotate the wallets I'm syncing at any point in time, but I never run wallets 24/7 ... until I discovered CBX and PoSP that is. PoSP incentives make me want to run CBX 24/7, so I increase my overall stake in the coin - I earn 8-14%, but inflation is only 2%. No other PoS coin I know of has this incentive.

Conventional staking where coins age in closed offline wallets is a zero sum game. You stake to tread water. It's like a standard bank account earning X% interest when the CPI inflation is X% also - the real return is ZERO! It's like methodone, there's no 'hit' as such, you just stake to not fall behind.

After 3 years of staking coins I'm convinced PoSP is the best algorithm to secure a PoS coin like BTCD. With PoSP you don't stake for a real return of ZERO, the real return is actually positive, and the overall effect is a lot more staking wallets, and a much more secure network.

I think it's a no-brainer!


edit: Here's the CBX PoSP whitepaper http://cryptobullion.io/white-paper/

What was the PoS % of CBX before PoSP?

[cmg777]

What was the PoS % of CBX before PoSP?

I also stake CBX and since PoSP has been implemented I am getting a consistent stake of 0.04 every hour and half or so (I have little over 400 CBX). Before PoSP was implemented the rates of stake were pretty inconsistant sometimes I would get as high as 0.15 but I would have to wait sometimes days for CBX to stake. In other words, CBX's implementation of PoSP gives hodlers incentive to stake 24/7 with consistency.   

@kennyP

How many PoS wallets do you have what are your favorites besides PPC, BTCD, and CBX?

[kennyP]

What was the PoS % of CBX before PoSP?

afaik CBX launched in June 2013 with a hybrid PoW & PoS emission. After the initial 12 month PoW high inflation stage finished, the long term 2% inflation rate was split between adjustable rates for PoW & PoS, and PoS rate ended up at ~1.3% when PoW finished on 1 Jan 2016. Rather than continue forever with a perpetual staking rate of 1.3% (and the risk of low network nodes/security with such a small stake incentive) they revised to PoSP with 2%. I might have some of those details wrong, but that's basically the CBX back story as I know it. I can remember CBX launching in June 2013 as the coin cap stood out as being very low compared to other coins (less than 1M, currently only 960K), but I only bought in recently when I discovered the details of PoSP, and what that meant to real interest rate return compared to other PoS coins.

I also stake CBX and since PoSP has been implemented I am getting a consistent stake of 0.04 every hour and half or so (I have little over 400 CBX). Before PoSP was implemented the rates of stake were pretty inconsistant sometimes I would get as high as 0.15 but I would have to wait sometimes days for CBX to stake. In other words, CBX's implementation of PoSP gives hodlers incentive to stake 24/7 with consistency.   

@kennyP

How many PoS wallets do you have what are your favorites besides PPC, BTCD, and CBX?

I'm a PoS junkie, so I've got literally over 30 active PoS wallets, probably more. Without PoW hardware, PoS is the natural playground for crypto noobs to learn. My favorites are BTCD, VPNcoin, Fibre, HBN, TEK, Vericoin, Shadowcash, NOBL, BLITZ, but there's plenty of other decent ones around with low marketcaps that might do well in the future.

This is the 'Stakehunter' thread that first introduced me to staking as an alternative to PoW:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=458726.0


The thread I follow now to keep up to date is BitcoinNational's TALKcoin thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864994.0 - most of BN's threads are jam packed with great info for the PoS connoisseur.

BN's TALK is a sentimental favorite of mine also, mainly because he bought it back from the dead single handed, just for the love of crypto I suspect, and I really dig his commitment.

The PoS coin I have most invested in is BTCD, which as we all know, is much more than a conventional PoS coin.

[bitkokos2]

What was the PoS % of CBX before PoSP?

afaik CBX launched in June 2013 with a hybrid PoW & PoS emission. After the initial 12 month PoW high inflation stage finished, the long term 2% inflation rate was split between adjustable rates for PoW & PoS, and PoS rate ended up at ~1.3% when PoW finished on 1 Jan 2016. Rather than continue forever with a perpetual staking rate of 1.3% (and the risk of low network nodes/security with such a small stake incentive) they revised to PoSP with 2%. I might have some of those details wrong, but that's basically the CBX back story as I know it. I can remember CBX launching in June 2013 as the coin cap stood out as being very low compared to other coins (less than 1M, currently only 960K), but I only bought in recently when I discovered the details of PoSP, and what that meant to real interest rate return compared to other PoS coins.

As far as I see the PoSP now is 6%-12% so there is a good incentive for staking. It's 3-6 times more.
If I was getting 12% with BTCD of course I would be staking 24/7

[bitkokos2]

Bleutrade goxed too

Deposits/withdrawals (temporarily) paused!

Chatbox removed

[jl777]

u.2026 b.2025 v.2025/2026 (8 1st.2027) to 2027 N[2028] Q.21684 h.1013508 r.1013508 c.0.000kb s.1013508 d.2027 E.2027:1585544 M.1013507 L.1013776 est.128 0.000kb 0:43:17 3.348 peers.22/128 Q.(0 0)