decentralized Bitcoin are highly centralized to mtgox!11

[bitcoinex]

Do not you think that a decentralized currency Bitcoin a highly centralized to mtgox? So that users are more profitable to move all his bitcoins into mtgox.

Yes, dammit, I resent, because paying for the work with bitcoins!

Confess that you simply draw exchange rates!

[1714052705]

1714052705

[1714052705]

1714052705

[1714052705]

1714052705

[Nefario]

Yes it's a weakpoint of bitcoin, as are all the exchanges.

Until someone implements the anonymous exchange idea found here http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/anonymous-money-needs-an-anonymous-exchange it will remain so.

Also the arrival of OTC exchanges.

[Prze_koles]

We need more local exchanges in every country, because bank transfer is almost free if you send in the same currency.

[kiba]

Digital hawala network. Somebody is working on it.

[bitcoinex]

In Russia was such thing.

This company states daily declaratively prices for their shares. I think that mtgox stands as such company now. (Is not charge. just someone who has an opportunity cost manipulate widely in their interests for a long time. I do not know how.)  Bitcoin turned into a pyramid?

No, I'm certainly interested as bitcoiny used to pay for and now I will have to pay 3 times more.

Yes, I resent is the second time since the previous race. Such jumps put a cross on the distribution of bitcoin as a means of payment. I will not use them as such in the near future.

[gigi]

We need more local exchanges in every country, because bank transfer is almost free if you send in the same currency.

Moreover, if all such exchanges implement free transfers between accounts on the exchange than it would be possible to transfer/convert fiat money to any country in the world.

1. Transfer fiat money to your local exchange.
2. Convert to BTC.
3. Transfer to an exchange local to payee.
4. Convert BTC into payee's currency.
5 Transfer money in payee's currency to payee account.
6. Payee withdraws fiat currency to his local bank account.
7. Banks and other middle men do not profit. (some fees to exchanges would apply, though)

Transacting in BTC still seems to be so much easier.

That wouldn't be as easy as you said. You would need to create an account on two different exchanges (one in each country), and you would be exposed to bitcoin value fluctuations between steps 2-4.

BTW, it won't be long before exchanges will start requiring ID.

[jkminkov]

seems that you are helping mtgox with introducing stupid fees to btcex...

[bitcoinex]

We need more local exchanges in every country, because bank transfer is almost free if you send in the same currency.

I tried to convey that message to the community.

But people are much more interesting to play a game of chance, using bitcoins not as money but as chips at the casino, which are purchased by the LR

[bitcoinex]

Patience!

Ne-a.

Without external influence young economy would collapse, since it dominates the positive feedback.

[MagicalTux]

We need more local exchanges in every country, because bank transfer is almost free if you send in the same currency.

I tried to convey that message to the community.

But people are much more interesting to play a game of chance, using bitcoins not as money but as chips at the casino, which are purchased by the LR

I like how this DDoS comes right in time to prove your point~

[bitcoinex]

We need more local exchanges in every country, because bank transfer is almost free if you send in the same currency.

I tried to convey that message to the community.

But people are much more interesting to play a game of chance, using bitcoins not as money but as chips at the casino, which are purchased by the LR

I like how this DDoS comes right in time to prove your point~

Yes, I really do not like mtgox. (But you're a new owner - you have a chance to change it)

mtgox really builds a pyramid!

I put a lot of effort is to make a good exchanger and another starts to actually paint rate and turn it all into the game.

The day before yesterday I was owed 100 BTC = $160 but today it $320 and it is too much for me. And it continues to grow simply because everyone is looking for people who cabal draw their own exchange rate on mtgox.

Perhaps that centralization is a basic property of commerce and then bitcoin are doomed. Instead of the central bank to manage the rates will mtgox.

mtgox took on greater responsibility and must stop trades when the exchange rate changes dramatically. Just because some people sometimes sleep, for example.

mtgox must do so at least 4 times for past half year. I and my friends who enjoyed bitcoin very badly affected.

I welcome this attack or slashdot! It is 'assassination politics' where the victim is the monopolistic exchange site, not human.

(we're a little familiar - there is no personal animosity)

huh, now I relax and feel good.

[MagicalTux]

We need more local exchanges in every country, because bank transfer is almost free if you send in the same currency.

I tried to convey that message to the community.

But people are much more interesting to play a game of chance, using bitcoins not as money but as chips at the casino, which are purchased by the LR

I like how this DDoS comes right in time to prove your point~

Yes, I really do not like mtgox. (But you're a new owner - you have a chance to change it)

mtgox really builds a pyramid!

I put a lot of effort is to make a good exchanger and another starts to actually paint rate and turn it all into the game.

The day before yesterday I was owed 100 BTC = $160 but today it $320 and it is too much for me. And it continues to grow simply because everyone is looking for people who cabal draw their own exchange rate on mtgox.

Perhaps that centralization is a basic property of commerce and then bitcoin are doomed. Instead of the central bank to manage the rates will mtgox.

mtgox took on greater responsibility and must stop trades when the exchange rate changes dramatically. Just because some people sometimes sleep, for example.

mtgox must do so at least 4 times for past half year. I and my friends who enjoyed bitcoin very badly affected.

I welcome this attack or slashdot! It is 'assassination politics' where the victim is the monopolistic exchange site, not human.

(we're a little familiar - there is no personal animosity)

huh, now I relax and feel good.

Well, as long as someone somewhere wants to buy bitcoins, the price will increase, would it be on mtgox or anywhere else. People who mine bitcoin want to sell at the best price, and if there is enough demand, would it be on mtgox or anywhere else, the price will increase anyway.

On the contrary, unavailability of mtgox may make bitcoins harder to obtain, and cause an extra increase of the bitcoin value...

[bitcoinex]

We need more local exchanges in every country, because bank transfer is almost free if you send in the same currency.

I tried to convey that message to the community.

But people are much more interesting to play a game of chance, using bitcoins not as money but as chips at the casino, which are purchased by the LR

I like how this DDoS comes right in time to prove your point~

Yes, I really do not like mtgox. (But you're a new owner - you have a chance to change it)

mtgox really builds a pyramid!

I put a lot of effort is to make a good exchanger and another starts to actually paint rate and turn it all into the game.

The day before yesterday I was owed 100 BTC = $160 but today it $320 and it is too much for me. And it continues to grow simply because everyone is looking for people who cabal draw their own exchange rate on mtgox.

Perhaps that centralization is a basic property of commerce and then bitcoin are doomed. Instead of the central bank to manage the rates will mtgox.

mtgox took on greater responsibility and must stop trades when the exchange rate changes dramatically. Just because some people sometimes sleep, for example.

mtgox must do so at least 4 times for past half year. I and my friends who enjoyed bitcoin very badly affected.

I welcome this attack or slashdot! It is 'assassination politics' where the victim is the monopolistic exchange site, not human.

(we're a little familiar - there is no personal animosity)

huh, now I relax and feel good.

Well, as long as someone somewhere wants to buy bitcoins, the price will increase, would it be on mtgox or anywhere else. People who mine bitcoin want to sell at the best price, and if there is enough demand, would it be on mtgox or anywhere else, the price will increase anyway.

On the contrary, unavailability of mtgox may make bitcoins harder to obtain, and cause an extra increase of the bitcoin value...

You're an idealist.

Real exchanges (from wallstreets) halt trading when the rate jumps dramatically. This is because exchange is a most good way of purchase of goods which are sold. (As I know, this technique has worked for centuries.)

[bitcoinex]

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AvGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

[Stefan Thomas]

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AwGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

If this is a joke, it's a bad one.

It sounds credible enough to be serious (with bitcoin address and email) for me to remove btcex from WeUseCoins until this is cleared up.

[cypherdoc]

i don't really mind the fees mtgox charges; what i do mind is the lack of service.  i've emailed Mag Tux a half a dozen times this week to do something for me but he has yet to perform.  i think its either too much work for him alone or he doesn't care.  i don't know which.

[cypherdoc]

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AwGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

If this is a joke, it's a bad one.

It sounds credible enough to be serious (with bitcoin address and email) for me to remove btcex from WeUseCoins until this is cleared up.

so bitcoinex owns btcex.com?  not to professional to advocate DDoS against a competitor...

[bitcoinex]

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AwGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

If this is a joke, it's a bad one.

It sounds credible enough to be serious (with bitcoin address and email) for me to remove btcex from WeUseCoins until this is cleared up.

I'm sorry but I'm afraid so is serious. It would cost less than to be owed +$100 every day.

Maybe I even feel sorry about it. But we want anarchy and autoregulation? This is it is.

Just in case, say goodbye in advance. With you it was good, bitcoiners is a great community!

[Luke-Jr]

But we want anarchy and autoregulation? This is it is.

Don't assume everyone has the same goals for Bitcoin that you do. I am a monarchist, and accept that regulation is good and necessary.

Also, your DDoS may be anarchy, but you will soon see the effects of autoregulation: it seems everyone is going to boycott BTCex over this.

[PLATO]

Also, your DDoS may be anarchy, but you will soon see the effects of autoregulation: it seems everyone is going to boycott BTCex over this.

God, I love free markets

[cypherdoc]

i get the gist of whats he's trying to say but man is it an effort!

[kiba]

Dude, WTF?

Why are you engaging in stereotypical Russian evilness behavior?

[Stefan Thomas]

I'm sorry but I'm afraid so is serious. It would cost less than to be owed +$100 every day.

Maybe I even feel sorry about it. But we want anarchy and autoregulation? This is it is.

Just in case, say goodbye in advance. With you it was good, bitcoiners is a great community!

Pretty unbelievable.

[proudhon]

But we want anarchy and autoregulation? This is it is.

You obviously know nothing about anarchism in the philosophical sense.  This DDoS attack is anarchy only in common use of that word, and it's far, far from the philosophical meaning of anarchism.  Anarchism in the political-philosophy sense has nothing to do with such a childish and idiotic thing.  Anarchist are in favor of organization and order, but happen to believe that it ought to come from the bottom up.  Anarchist are not in favor of harming others or causing the kind of disruption this DDoS represents.

[mewantsbitcoins]

Guys look at the bright side - now mtgox will have better protection against DDoS when the real threat comes along. It's like practice

[chris200x9]

https://github.com/NewEraCracker/LOIC/wiki/How-to-run-LOIC-using-Mono

Oh look LOIC works on linux *hint hint* accepting donations in my https://btcex.com/ ddos attempt 1CBvDM2M37ExZjWjJDKEED7c9KGNEHY46k

[Garrett Burgwardt]

Incredibly childish, I've never used btcex but I certainly won't now.

[bitcoinex]

https://github.com/NewEraCracker/LOIC/wiki/How-to-run-LOIC-using-Mono

Oh look LOIC works on linux *hint hint* accepting donations in my https://btcex.com/ ddos attempt 1CBvDM2M37ExZjWjJDKEED7c9KGNEHY46k

It is pointless - all of our clients took mtgox week ago.

But on this forum for such posts you will be baned wherever possible - I've learned the hard way right now.

[kiba]

It is pointless - all of our clients took mtgox week ago.

But on this forum for such posts you will be baned wherever possible - I've learned the hard way right now.

Please return the light side!

[chris200x9]

https://github.com/NewEraCracker/LOIC/wiki/How-to-run-LOIC-using-Mono

Oh look LOIC works on linux *hint hint* accepting donations in my https://btcex.com/ ddos attempt 1CBvDM2M37ExZjWjJDKEED7c9KGNEHY46k

It is pointless - all of our clients took mtgox week ago.

But on this forum for such posts you will be baned wherever possible - I've learned the hard way right now.

maN i USED TO LIKE YOU, i LOST LIKE 50 BTC TO PROBIWON AND HAD A GOOD TIME DOING IT BUT YOU JUST SUCK! whats the problem with mount gox, they make money u mad?

ITT: bitcoinex is massive butthurt

[bitcoinex]

https://github.com/NewEraCracker/LOIC/wiki/How-to-run-LOIC-using-Mono

Oh look LOIC works on linux *hint hint* accepting donations in my https://btcex.com/ ddos attempt 1CBvDM2M37ExZjWjJDKEED7c9KGNEHY46k

It is pointless - all of our clients took mtgox week ago.

But on this forum for such posts you will be baned wherever possible - I've learned the hard way right now.

maN i USED TO LIKE YOU, i LOST LIKE 50 BTC TO PROBIWON AND HAD A GOOD TIME DOING IT

Thank you! very nice to hear actually. All that money went to pay for hosting and all these things, not for purchase weapons of mass destruction.

[HostFat]

This is the stupiest thing that you could do.

[demonofelru]

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AwGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

If this is a joke, it's a bad one.

It sounds credible enough to be serious (with bitcoin address and email) for me to remove btcex from WeUseCoins until this is cleared up.

I'm sorry but I'm afraid so is serious. It would cost less than to be owed +$100 every day.

Maybe I even feel sorry about it. But we want anarchy and autoregulation? This is it is.

Just in case, say goodbye in advance. With you it was good, bitcoiners is a great community!

Most of us are good.  Then of course there are always asses like you.

[kiba]

Now the Russian can't exchange Russian rubes for bitcoin anymore. This is bad for the bitcoin economy. 

[PLATO]

bitcoinex - I'm not as pissed at you as most people in this thread are. There was a $4.15 trade on 'gox this morning, personally that seems pretty inflated to me.Exchanges are the obvious weak points in the bitcoin economy, a motivated entity could take down all the exchanges if they devoted enough effort.

Instead of squabbling let's integrate some of the cool stuff that the Cypherpunkd podcast talks about, and create a much less centralized exchange network.

Is there open source exchange software, for users who want to create their own exchanges? (edit: yes, unmaintained code here) Does it work well? Is there a way to sync it with the web of trust, so users can have some measure of confidence in new exchanges?

Users should have good ways to contribute to local exchange and trade if they're unwilling to meet face to face - e.g. they can mail or receive cashiers' checks or money orders.  (edit - see Ubitex)

We can extend the OTC web of trust (or rather, import it) into the physical realm for such transactions. The 'Black and Yellow pages' mentioned in one of those podcasts seemed to embody this idea (note that it's not fully implemented yet)

There was something else called Open Transactions that seemed to be a standard for online transactions, including but not limited to Bitcoins - I haven't looked into that yet.

I don't know if bitcoinex is being a dick or if he is trying to help Bitcoin or both, but this at least should drive some great discussion!

[kiba]

bitcoinex - I'm not as pissed at you as most people in this thread are. There was a $4.15 trade on 'gox this morning, personally that seems pretty inflated to me.Exchanges are the obvious weak points in the bitcoin economy, a motivated entity could take down all the exchanges if they devoted enough effort.

Instead of squabbling let's integrate some of the cool stuff that the Cypherpunkd podcast talks about, and create a much less centralized exchange network.

Is there open source exchange software, for users who want to create their own exchanges? Does it work well? Is there a way to sync it with the web of trust, so users can have some measure of confidence in new exchanges?

Somebody is on it: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6584.0

[Anonymous]

The code to bitcoin central is open source. All it requires is more support than is currently being offered.

Someone could fork it and run a successful exchange if they had the resources and support.

[bitcoinex]

bitcoinex - I'm not as pissed at you as most people in this thread are. There was a $4.15 trade on 'gox this morning, personally that seems pretty inflated to me.Exchanges are the obvious weak points in the bitcoin economy, a motivated entity could take down all the exchanges if they devoted enough effort.

Instead of squabbling let's integrate some of the cool stuff that the Cypherpunkd podcast talks about, and create a much less centralized exchange network.

Oh, yes, exactly, well, then I turn off my ddos and start writing p2p exchange!

This divestment debate aside, man.

Is there open source exchange software, for users who want to create their own exchanges? Does it work well? Is there a way to sync it with the web of trust, so users can have some measure of confidence in new exchanges?

Users should have good ways to contribute to local exchange and trade if they're unwilling to meet face to face - e.g. they can mail or receive cashiers' checks or money orders.

We can extend the OTC web of trust (or rather, import it) into the physical realm for such transactions. The 'Black and Yellow pages' mentioned in one of those podcasts seemed to embody this idea (note that it's not fully implemented yet)

There was something else called Open Transactions that seemed to be a standard for online transactions, including but not limited to Bitcoins - I haven't looked into that yet.

I don't know if bitcoinex is being a dick or if he is trying to help Bitcoin or both, but this at least should drive some great discussion!

Thanks for a sane post - 200% profit per 15 minutes for most people here are veiled eyes because we are all already members of the pyramid!

I think going construction of the financial pyramid or something like it. Mtgox condone this now because it is while beneficial to all except for people who enjoy bitcoin for its intended purpose.

Bitcoin oligarchs will not help us to regulate prices - now they were not advantageous to intervene but will collapse when they first try to exchange bitcoins for money. Price collapses and you're staying out of money. So will this really the law of the markets in which there are only speculators and no regulation.

Tomorrow they will draw (allegory) you to a higher rates and so on to infinity. And they will tell that once published an article in the Times and have very good expectations. While FBI don't knocking into door

(One guy in the Russian section, said he would ask the FBI (according to you) because of what we do. I laughed at him but I think it's actually right - without regulation it is now a pyramid scheme. I would not be surprised if the authorities ignore the essence of bitkoinov and just see the kind of strange firm in which people put money and ... get a little money sometimes. )

Therefore, the erosion of the exchange by the ddoses etc is the only one humane method. (oh, maybe there are still methods but I only know this and it is readed from article and not invented by me)

[bitcoinex]

The code to bitcoin central is open source. All it requires is more support than is currently being offered.

Someone could fork it and run a successful exchange if they had the resources and support.

(By the way, who still doubt my intentions: I am advocating this idea for a long time in the Russian section. Yes, to the detriment of btcex.com, it will be a competitor. Nevertheless, it is necessary.)

[mweather]

Oh, yes, exactly, well, then I turn off my ddos and start writing p2p exchange!

I wouldn't bother if I were you. Nobody will trust anything you write.

Better to leave it to someone who is respected by the community.

[bitcoinex]

Oh, yes, exactly, well, then I turn off my ddos and start writing p2p exchange!

I wouldn't bother if I were you. Nobody will trust anything you write.

Better to leave it to someone who is respected by the community.

You turn into these idiot, who with a smile advertise all sorts of earnings on the net.

[mweather]

Oh, yes, exactly, well, then I turn off my ddos and start writing p2p exchange!

I wouldn't bother if I were you. Nobody will trust anything you write.

Better to leave it to someone who is respected by the community.

You turn into these idiot, who with a smile advertise all sorts of earnings on the net.

Do you honestly not realize that your name is mud now? Did you honestly expect people to be happy about your actions? Sorry to disappoint you, but that's simply not the case.

[doomcup]

You turn into these idiot, who with a smile advertise all sorts of earnings on the net.

I just registered to say:

You have pretty much confessed to DDOSing mtgox. In order to drive people to your exchange.

If you can't see the problem with this, you deserve everything you get. It'll be a miracle if anyone in the know ever willingly visits your exchange again.

[Rawr1337]

Bitcoinex, although your intentions may be good, I believe your actions have permanently tarnished your name with the bitcoin community. I for one will make sure that my acquaintances and I will never use your service. If this was a stint for more traffic, you sir have failed miserably.

[mweather]

The ironic thing is that all he managed to do was give Mt.Gox more publicity. The entire bitcoin world is talking about Mt.Gox right now. I'd imagine they're seeing a huge traffic increase aside from the DDoS. This will definitely drive prices even higher.

[bitcoinex]

Bitcoinex, although your intentions may be good, I believe your actions have permanently tarnished your name with the bitcoin community. I for one will make sure that my acquaintances and I will never use your service. If this was a stint for more traffic, you sir have failed miserably.

How do I stain my name? I advertise heroin trafficking for bitcoin? Or someone else?

Bitcoiny is not money but above all an experiment. You have forgotten about it.

Of course, I sounded terrible idea for you and by coincidence that someone else carried it, and you have decided that it was me. That's all my fault.

[mweather]

If it makes you feel better, you can pretend the drop in traffic on your site is a "coincidence", too. Lol.

[demonofelru]

Bitcoinex, although your intentions may be good, I believe your actions have permanently tarnished your name with the bitcoin community. I for one will make sure that my acquaintances and I will never use your service. If this was a stint for more traffic, you sir have failed miserably.

How do I stain my name? I advertise heroin trafficking for bitcoin? Or someone else?

Bitcoiny is not money but above all an experiment. You have forgotten about it.

Of course, I sounded terrible idea for you and by coincidence that someone else carried it, and you have decided that it was me. That's all my fault.

Oh shut up!  The answer to not liking mtgox is to provide an alternative and I know you are think of doing that now, that's great, but that doesn't excuse a malicious attack against him you lowlife.

[doomcup]

How do I stain my name? I advertise heroin trafficking for bitcoin? Or someone else?

Bitcoiny is not money but above all an experiment. You have forgotten about it.

Of course, I sounded terrible idea for you and by coincidence that someone else carried it, and you have decided that it was me. That's all my fault.

Again, just in case you didn't get it the first time:

You have pretty much confessed to DDOSing mtgox. In order to drive people to your exchange.

I don't know how the hell they do things in Russia, but it is *not* the way people behave.

[demonofelru]

How do I stain my name? I advertise heroin trafficking for bitcoin? Or someone else?

Bitcoiny is not money but above all an experiment. You have forgotten about it.

Of course, I sounded terrible idea for you and by coincidence that someone else carried it, and you have decided that it was me. That's all my fault.

Again, just in case you didn't get it the first time:

You have pretty much confessed to DDOSing mtgox. In order to drive people to your exchange.

I don't know how the hell they do things in Russia, but it is *not* the way people behave.

I don't even know why you would say "pretty much"  he said this just a few posts ago "Oh, yes, exactly, well, then I turn off my ddos and start writing p2p exchange!"

[doomcup]

EDIT: Blagh, my eyes are not functional yet, too early

[demonofelru]

I know doomcup I was saying it shouldn't be pretty much he admitted so unless he's lying he's definitely taken responsibility for it.

[mweather]

Lying or telling the truth, it doesn't really matter. Either way he's shown himself to be untrustworthy.

[demonofelru]

Lying or telling the truth, it doesn't really matter. Either way he's shown himself to be untrustworthy.

Couldn't agree more worst is he seems to think he is justified in his actions.

[bitcoinex]

Lying or telling the truth, it doesn't really matter. Either way he's shown himself to be untrustworthy.

Couldn't agree more worst is he seems to think he is justified in his actions.

C'mon, people need a witch for a burning!

[demonofelru]

Lying or telling the truth, it doesn't really matter. Either way he's shown himself to be untrustworthy.

Couldn't agree more worst is he seems to think he is justified in his actions.

C'mon, people need a witch for a burning!

Yeah I think they found him!

[Anth0n]

bitcoinex - I'm not as pissed at you as most people in this thread are. There was a $4.15 trade on 'gox this morning, personally that seems pretty inflated to me.Exchanges are the obvious weak points in the bitcoin economy, a motivated entity could take down all the exchanges if they devoted enough effort.

What you perceive as a high exchange price does not justify an attack on someone else's property, in my opinion. Mt. Gox is the most popular exchange because it offers superior service to the other exchanges on the market. Otherwise, we would all be using a different exchange. The tarnishing of bitcoinex's reputation is the appropriate free-market response, acting as a voluntary police system of a fragile, yet growing economy. However, I will not pass judgment on those who continue to do business with bitcoinex. The beauty of not having an official police force punishing this moral infraction is that people can still voluntarily do business with bitcoinex as they please, but those who remain skeptical of bitcoinex's business practices will have no part in his/her business.

Also, I disagree that exchanges are the weak point in the Bitcoin economy. How would the layman be able to use Bitcoins without an easy way to exchange for them?

[skittixch]

Let's consider some options:

1) Bitcoinex is a competitor who doesn't understand he's just ended his career in this marketplace by engaging in dangerous vigilante cyber-warfare against an important piece of bitcoin infrastructure (too important).

2) Bitcoinex is actually tied to govt and this stunt is being used to take the spotlight off the fact that paypal has frozen coinpal's acct

3) other more nefarious dealings *dons tin foil hat*

All I'm saying is that it's important that we get an "official" story before we start pointing fingers angrily.  Even if Bitcoinex has "admitted" to it, there's some shady stuff going on here, and I think we should be cognizant of how easily heresay can impact our community.

[Orbijx]

How do I stain my name? I advertise heroin trafficking for bitcoin? Or someone else?

Bitcoiny is not money but above all an experiment. You have forgotten about it.

Of course, I sounded terrible idea for you and by coincidence that someone else carried it, and you have decided that it was me. That's all my fault.

The how:

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

<redacted - You do not need more coin. - this editor>

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

The result:
I distrust you so intensely that I will make it my effort to avoid doing any sort of transaction that directly involves you, influence those inside my sphere to avoid your business, and those that are outside my sphere should hear the word.

Trust.

You have none.

[mweather]

Lying or telling the truth, it doesn't really matter. Either way he's shown himself to be untrustworthy.

Couldn't agree more worst is he seems to think he is justified in his actions.

Yep, and he seems intent on digging himself into a deeper and deeper hole.

[Bruce Wagner]

How do I stain my name?

You are a total freaking idiot and moron.  Learn how to use Google Translate.  Your English is almost as bad as your logic.  You are simply an idiot.   If I believed in banning people from anything.... I would start with asswipes like you.

[mewantsbitcoins]

In my opinion everybody is too emotional. We should lock this thread for some time and come back to it when everybody calms down

[cypherdoc]

mtgox back up boys.  RALLY BACK ON!

[alkor]

It's still not back up for me.

[Bruce Wagner]

What we need to do...  is make absolutely CERTAIN that every newbie KNOWS that they cannot use sites like BTC-asswipe.com because he is a criminal who cannot be trusted.

For example, in my upcoming "Bitcoin for Dummies"-type site I am working on, I will definitely include a section of the Master Directory called,  "Known Scams & Fraud Sites to Avoid" ...and be sure to list his sites there...  so the entire Bitcoin Community knows to stay away from ever doing business with him.

It's VERY important to spread the word about scammers like him.... who give all of Bitcoin a bad name...

And, in fact, give all RUSSIANS a bad name.

Once again I say, if I were Russian, I would be be so ashamed and embarrassed to admit that this evil asswipe with the intelligence of a pea is a fellow countryman of mine.

Just Tweeted to 12,000+ Followers:

Criminal Owner of Russian Bitcoin Exchange site, BTCex Admits to orchestrating DDos Attack on Number One Bitcoin Exchange, http://MtGox.com

[bitcoinex]

What we need to do...  is make absolutely CERTAIN that every newbie KNOWS that they cannot use sites like BTC-asswipe.com because he is a criminal who cannot be trusted.

For example, in my upcoming "Bitcoin for Dummies"-type site I am working on, I will definitely include a section of the Master Directory called,  "Known Scams & Fraud Sites to Avoid" ...and be sure to list his sites there...  so the entire Bitcoin Community knows to stay away from ever doing business with him.

It's VERY important to spread the word about scammers like him.... who give all of Bitcoin a bad name...

And, in fact, give all RUSSIANS a bad name.

Once again I say, if I were Russian, I would be be so ashamed and embarrassed to admit that this evil asswipe with the intelligence of a pea is a fellow countryman of mine.

Just Tweeted to 12,000+ Followers:

Criminal Owner of Russian Bitcoin Exchange site, BTCex Admits to orchestrating DDos Attack on Number One Bitcoin Exchange, http://MtGox.com

Do not be an asshole, I have nothing to do with it. Bitcoin in Russia just a very well known so there problems came from it: http://www.google.com/trends?q=bitcoin

Most likely you bought recently bitcoins and now are experiencing. This is understandable but I'm not here to blame and even Russian indirectly. ddos are from Vietnam mtgox wrote

[Bruce Wagner]

I have nothing to do with it.

You are a liar.   You already admitted that you are behind the DDoS attack.    And by the way, LEARN ENGLISH.   This is the English language section.   No one can understand anything you say.    Better yet, just go away.   No one CARES about anything you have to say.   You have successfully DESTROYED your own reputation in the Bitcoin world.

[demonofelru]

I have nothing to do with it.

You are a lier.   You already admitted that you are behind the DDoS attack.    And by the way, LEARN ENGLISH.   This is the English language section.   No one can understand anything you say.    Better yet, just go away.   No one CARES about anything you have to say.   You have successfully DESTROYED your own reputation in the Bitcoin world.

Dude don't worry about it he's just trolling you now.  He knows he admitted it and so does every one else don't waste your time on him.

[Noitev]

What we need to do...  is make absolutely CERTAIN that every newbie KNOWS that they cannot use sites like BTC-asswipe.com because he is a criminal who cannot be trusted.

For example, in my upcoming "Bitcoin for Dummies"-type site I am working on, I will definitely include a section of the Master Directory called,  "Known Scams & Fraud Sites to Avoid" ...and be sure to list his sites there...  so the entire Bitcoin Community knows to stay away from ever doing business with him.

It's VERY important to spread the word about scammers like him.... who give all of Bitcoin a bad name...

And, in fact, give all RUSSIANS a bad name.

Once again I say, if I were Russian, I would be be so ashamed and embarrassed to admit that this evil asswipe with the intelligence of a pea is a fellow countryman of mine.

Just Tweeted to 12,000+ Followers:

Criminal Owner of Russian Bitcoin Exchange site, BTCex Admits to orchestrating DDos Attack on Number One Bitcoin Exchange, http://MtGox.com

Do not be an asshole, I have nothing to do with it. Bitcoin in Russia just a very well known so there problems came from it: http://www.google.com/trends?q=bitcoin

Most likely you bought recently bitcoins and now are experiencing. This is understandable but I'm not here to blame and even Russian indirectly. ddos are from Vietnam mtgox wrote

What in gods name are you talking about? BTC dropped slightly to 3.5 when mtgox went down, the current price is 3.57, so if you have btc you made a little money.... not to mention everyone who couldn't buy today will buy tomorrow. BTC holders will make a killing when the US wakes up tomorrow

[mweather]

Do not be an asshole, I have nothing to do with it

So you were accepting donations for something you had nothing to do with? You don't see how that is unethical? All the more reason for people to avoid doing business with you.

[Noitev]

I feel like we should take down his gambling sites like probiwon off the wiki

[Bruce Wagner]

I feel like we should take down his gambling sites like probiwon off the wiki

Yes.  In fact, could you please list all of his sites --- and sites he is affiliated with in any way.   Please post them here, and please email that list to me.  I want to make certain that all of those sites are banned from the Directory I am in the process of creating.

[cypherdoc]

bitcoinex, you have the right to remain silent...

he would have been much better off if he had

[cypherdoc]

I have nothing to do with it.

You are a lier.   You already admitted that you are behind the DDoS attack.    And by the way, LEARN ENGLISH.   This is the English language section.   No one can understand anything you say.    Better yet, just go away.   No one CARES about anything you have to say.   You have successfully DESTROYED your own reputation in the Bitcoin world.

Dude don't worry about it he's just trolling you now.  He knows he admitted it and so does every one else don't waste your time on him.

even if he didn't admit it, he certainly tried to take advantage of it, which is just as bad

[bitcoinex]

Do not be an asshole, I have nothing to do with it

So you were accepting donations for something you had nothing to do with? You don't see how that is unethical? All the more reason for people to avoid doing business with you.

I have no relationship with the attack on the site. I just wrote on the forum for what and how it can be successfully applied.

Can assume that I have found a vulnerability in the mechanism of exchange and reported on it.

You are a victim of its own greed. Sooner or later I or someone else would have said the same thing and the rate is collapse.

It hurts me to see that savvy in technology and economy are people whom I know almost like a family for six months already think I'm guilty of it.

[Garrett Burgwardt]

You had no relation with the attack, but you were soliciting donations, said you'd stop, and said that everything was "all according to plan".

Sure, and I have 22 million BTC in my wallet.

[LightRider]

The old Cold War heating up with a Vietnamese proxy.

What is that thing they say about history?

[Yurock]

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!
1AvGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

This address is invalid, I also checked it with the program.

[bitcoinex]

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!
1AvGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

This address is invalid, I also checked it with the program.

it was valid before I change it

[Yurock]

Well, I'm sorry to hear about such dissension in bitcoin community. I think that a number of independent exchange tools is needed for stability and firmness. Creating (maybe essentially) new services is a way to go, and arguing with established ones is not, IMHO. I hope, though, that in the end Mt. Gox in particular, and bitcoin economy in whole will only become stronger, which will be to everyone's benefit.

[LZ]

bitcoinex does not represent views of all Russian part of the Bitcoin Community.

Please close this topic. I am shocked.

[Anonymous]

* is disappointed.

This looks like a case of someone yelling 'fire' in a crowded cinema. It is very foolish to do something like that and people dont take kindly too it.

[Anonymous]

bitcoinex does not represent views of all Russian part of the Bitcoin Community.

Please close this topic. I am shocked.

I dont think anyone has come to that conclusion. This is about one person not about where he comes from.

[Timo Y]

But we want anarchy and autoregulation? This is it is.

I must admit he has a point there.

DDoS attacks do not violate the non-aggression principle, so in an anarchy they are fair game.

But just because you're not violating the non-aggression principle doesnt mean you are not being a huge asshole.

DDoS attacks are an exploitation of the website owner's generosity and violation of the good faith principles that keep the internet running. (the tragedy of the commons that allows spam and DDoS  is an inherent design flaw of the internet but that is a different topic)


This attack was a minor inconvenience for the community, but his ruined reputation is real autoregulation in action.

[jkminkov]

  seems that ALL of you FAIL to understand eastern europeans' sarcasm

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AvGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

[error]

seems that ALL of you FAIL to understand eastern europeans' sarcasm

Perhaps. But sarcasm is a very bad idea when you have brought your reputation into question, as btcex did here.

[da2ce7]

Dear friends please treat this as a case of psychosocially unstable immature idiot who does not understand what he is doing. Just read his posts, obviously bad command of English in combination with some kind of cultural misunderstanding (though even I fail to understand that BS differently as compared to everyone else here).

We know some traders do jump out of the window occasionally. Maybe it is just like that. It certainly looks like the dude bet a farm (worth 160$) shorting bitcoin and got burned. So he went mad and it looks like he got 2 or 3 lunatics to post BS in his name. Moreover, based on his follow up posts in russian forum, he still does not understand how his actions look like to a normal person.

I am not trying to defend the idiot. He has commited a political suicide and deserves to live with consequences. I, personally, will not ever have any biz with anyone or anything ever remotely related to this guy, simply because having biz with lunatics is way too risky a  proposition.

The reason I am writing this is because I am very sad and embarrassed by this incident and very angry at this stupid immature idiot for tarnishing the name of Russian people.

Also please note he is not necessarily Russian, we only know that he is a Russian speaking person and there are hundreds of millions people who are Russian speaking but not Russian.

+1  It was reputation suicide.

[bitcoinex]

seems that ALL of you FAIL to understand eastern europeans' sarcasm

Perhaps. But sarcasm is a very bad idea when you have brought your reputation into question, as btcex did here.

Rather, half of the community present themselves as animals when rate passes $2.5. Read what they write some famous people here.

soundtrack

[Mahkul]

seems that ALL of you FAIL to understand eastern europeans' sarcasm

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AvGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

I am from Eastern Europe and I still don't get it, тoвapищ.

[jkminkov]

seems that ALL of you FAIL to understand eastern europeans' sarcasm

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AvGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

I am from Eastern Europe and I still don't get it, тoвapищ.

it was either sarcasm* or self irony**

* - running exchange IMHO is easiest way to profit from bitcoins, get bitcoin offers from idiots and supply bitcoins to fools, tax both
** - an Irish person might say - I haven't been back here since we bombed it in 1976.

[caveden]

Bitcoinex,

I hope it was just misunderstood sarcasm and you really aren't behind such a childish action.

And using the opportunity, if you want to know why MtGox is much more successful than your site: your fees are too high!
At least last time I checked they were above 3% while MtGox was below 1%.

Have you considered a fixed fee per transaction? That would attract all the large sums of money to your exchange, making it have maybe even more volume than MtGox. Actually, constant fees make more sense than relative ones, as the costs of the exchange site don't really change concerning the amount of value but rather the amount of transactions.

[bitcoinex]

Bitcoinex,

I hope it was just misunderstood sarcasm and you really aren't behind such a childish action.

And using the opportunity, if you want to know why MtGox is much more successful than your site: your fees are too high!
At least last time I checked they were above 3% while MtGox was below 1%.

Have you considered a fixed fee per transaction? That would attract all the large sums of money to your exchange, making it have maybe even more volume than MtGox. Actually, constant fees make more sense than relative ones, as the costs of the exchange site don't really change concerning the amount of value but rather the amount of transactions.

Thank you for your message.

The fact that we do not use automation in the processing of payments. Unfortunately, the vast majority of available banks and payment systems are not allow that or prohibit exchange for anonymous currency.

We never have large volumes of trades, so we do not charge a commission for trades - it is pointless.

I think the trades itself tends toward centralization, so mtgox will always have more attractive offers.

[romanoza]

Once again I say, if I were Russian, I would be be so ashamed and embarrassed to admit that this evil asswipe with the intelligence of a pea is a fellow countryman of mine.

Man, you looking fool, when you say that 1 man or 1 bad joke describe all nation.

[SmokeTooMuch]

Ok, maybe I will pull a massive amount of hatred on me now ...

Let's get our facts straight:

There is one person (bitcoinex) who thinks that the current market is much too centralized.
Which is right in my opinion.

He start's a DDoS-attack to prove his point and brings the site down for several hours.

What's so wrong about that ?

If he'd stayed anonymous nobody would be so stressed about the whole thing.
But instead he made his intentions publicly available so people can discuss about it. At least that's what I am thinking.
And instead of discussing, everybody is just like "herp derp, idiot, herp derp".

So, my message to all of you is:
Calm down, think about it and let's discuss in an open and mannered way.

So far,

~Smoke

[PLATO]

Smoke - I agree, I would rather gox gets ddos'd  now, instead of in a few months when our userbase and bitcoin value is higher. This gives us a chance to talk about it and fix what's wrong.

MagicalTux now has some data that he can use to make Mt. Gox more resilient. The community has a lot to discuss, like how to implement a decentralized exchange network. Btcex has tarnished his reputation and should have probably remained anonymous.

See my previous post ITT for ideas on a decentralized exchange.

[LZ]

What's so wrong about that ?

DDoS attacks (or threats of DDoS attacks) and an honest business environment are incompatible things.

[mewantsbitcoins]

I personally haven't read anywhere bitcoinex admitting that he was involved, so my suggestion is not to jump to conclusions. Money at stake is getting bigger and bigger and IMO it was just clouded judgement at an emotional moment to write what he wrote. Plus, from his previous posts it's clear that he, as anybody else on this site, wants bitcoin to succeed.

Whatever the came maybe, there is a bigger issue on the table. We all saw what this attack did, so instead of arguing who's wrong and who's right, lets concentrate on solving the problem how we could be more decentralized.

If 1/few guys ground the whole market to a standstill, I'm afraid we stand no chance when the real crack down happens

[dust]

https://btcex.com/ claims:

"We are under DDoS attack"

I question the truth of that statement.

[Mashuri]

The market will work work itself out.  As mtgox grows and becomes more profitable, more and better competitors will start materializing.  In other words, so long as Bitcoin continues to climb in demand, mtgox won't be the only game in town for long.

[imanikin]

...cпoкoйcтвиe, мyжики! Лyчшe нe caдитьcя нa TPOЛЛeйбycы c тaким кoличecтвoм вcякиx вёдep...  

Дaвaйтe лyчшe тaк: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Pj2r94CDM

[mewantsbitcoins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1d_RuiH1o4

[chris200x9]

https://btcex.com/ claims:

"We are under DDoS attack"

I question the truth of that statement.

I don't doubt it

https://github.com/NewEraCracker/LOIC/wiki/How-to-run-LOIC-using-Mono

Oh look LOIC works on linux *hint hint* accepting donations in my https://btcex.com/ ddos attempt 1CBvDM2M37ExZjWjJDKEED7c9KGNEHY46k

I'm a l33t haxxor, maybe if you pay me 100000000000000000000000 btc I'll stop.

edit: I don't want this to tarnish my reputation so I felt obligated to tell all of you who can't tell this is a joke. I'm not ddosing him, that post was written out of anger and I find it quite funny now he claims someone is doing it.

[JohnDoe]

Could be wrong but I think bitcoinex is the first ever winner of a Bitcoin Darwin Award. Congrats!

[bitcoinex]

I just registered to say that most of you, especially morons vladimir and bruce wagner-dick, doesn`t even suspect how RETARDED you are )))) Bitcoin is for freedom, my including, not only for you, you selfish hypocritical bastards. If someone orders ddos, drugs and other "bad, unfair" things, you must live with it. But when life beats your stupid heads without brain you always show your immature sense of reality. Carry on,  lol )))

И пoчeмy мyдaкa вaгнepa нe зaбaнили зa pycoфoбию? lzsaver , тeбe пoxyю, чтo нa Russian гoвнo вeдpaми льют? Чe ты oпpaвдывaeшьcя? Пepeд кeм? Oтcocи eмy eщe. Кaкoй ты мoдepaтop нaxyй, paз тeбe вce пoxyй?

BHEЗAПHO

[LZ]

Бpюc Baгнep cдeлaл для cooбщecтвa бoльшe, чeм вcя poccийcкaя чacть cooбщecтвa. Taк чтo нe тpoгaть eгo.

Please ban rus moroz!

[rus moroz]

Бpюc Baгнep cдeлaл для cooбщecтвa бoльшe, чeм вcя poccийcкaя чacть cooбщecтвa. Taк чтo нe тpoгaть eгo.

Кaкoгo cooбщecтвa?? 90% здecь oтпиcaвшиxcя - cтaдo тyпopылыx oбeзьян. И я oчeнь paд, чтo "poccийcкaя чacть cooбщecтвa" к этoмy циpкy ypoдoв oтнoшeния нe имeeт.

Please ban rus moroz!

It turned out that you are even more hypocritical than most stupid shithead marked in this topic. You`re pathetic.

[rus moroz]

vladimir, thank you! We have finally found the profit of your presence here

[SmokeTooMuch]

Ok, maybe I will pull a massive amount of hatred on me now ...

Let's get our facts straight:

There is one person (bitcoinex) who thinks that the current market is much too centralized.
Which is right in my opinion.

He start's a DDoS-attack to prove his point and brings the site down for several hours.

What's so wrong about that ?

If you can't see what is wrong with what he did, you clearly live in bizarro world.

That being said, let me explain things from a slightly different angle: this asswipe
operates an exchange.

This basically means that he's relying on his customers trusting him to handle
their money in an honest manner (I'm hoping I won't have to explain that part).

As to that, he's just given us a rather clear and resounding example of the
kind of business ethics he's ready to resort to.

Would you be ready to transfer any kind of money to btcex after he pulled
a stunt liked that ?

I most certainly am not, and I'm willing to bet that once people understand
better how he operates/thinks, very few will.

In other words, he's probably just destroyed any chance for btcex to become
any kind of successful.

How does that not make him a complete idiot ? Or do you think the only goal
of setting up the whole btcex affair was only to troll people on the bitcoin
forums ?

Please enlighten me.

Well, for me this whole thing looks very different.
But to make one thing clear: I do not know bitcoinex nor do I know his real intentions or idealogies.

I can't see any links between DDoS-ing and business so I don't know what business ethics you mean.
I also never heard of bitcoinex stealing money from his customers or something so TO ME he seems like a legit business man.
I've never traded at btcex, though.
Since btces charges no fees (afaik) I don't think he tried to steal mtgox's userbase.
I got the impression that BECAUSE he's also running an exchange he has seen the problems coming with centralized exchanges and especially the focus on mtgox.com.
But hey, who knows, maybe he is just a total douchebag, I don't really care and I don't need to defend his doings.
Just keep in mind that never attracted any negative attention before that thing.

For me DDoS is a matter of free speach, just like a digital sit-in blockade.
Sure, as soon as it becomes a financial issue (which it is, because MtGox chrges fees) it gets really difficult to judge.
But in my opinion bitcoin exchanges should be free of any fees. We do not have to make the same mistakes that other currencies/systems/communites have done before.
(centralized market/market monopol + fees <-> government + taxes  )


Aw man, feels great in bizarro world  

[Binford 6100]

For me DDoS is a matter of free speach, just like a digital sit-in blockade.

+.9

This looks like a case of someone yelling 'fire' in a crowded cinema.

premiere of new star trek movie, the crowded cinema full of nerds, no one moves and all watch the screen

what is so wrong with pointing loud to a critical weakness?

[xf2_org]

DDoS is the opposite of free speech.  You are silencing someone else's speech, by brute force.

[epii]

DDoS is the opposite of free speech.  You are silencing someone else's speech, by brute force.

Amen.  Freedom to criticize someone isn't freedom to hobble them however you see fit.  DDoS is more akin to corporate espionage than free speech.

[Littleshop]

For me DDoS is a matter of free speach, just like a digital sit-in blockade.
Sure, as soon as it becomes a financial issue (which it is, because MtGox chrges fees) it gets really difficult to judge.
But in my opinion bitcoin exchanges should be free of any fees. We do not have to make the same mistakes that other currencies/systems/communites have done before.
(centralized market/market monopol + fees <-> government + taxes  )


Aw man, feels great in bizarro world  

A DDOS is almost always committed with stolen computers and it is nothing like a digital sit in. It is more akin to stealing 100 cars and parking them in a businesses parking lot and right up against the doors so no one can get in or out.  The name alone says it all, DENIAL OF SERVICE.   That is very much an aggressive act, not a passive act.

DDoS is the opposite of free speech.  You are silencing someone else's speech, by brute force.

Agreed.  It is a use of force.

[SmokeTooMuch]

DDoS is the opposite of free speech.  You are silencing someone else's speech, by brute force.

DDoSing a website/server does not remove the owner's ability to speak elsewhere on the net.
But I see what you are pointing at.
Maybe I should have chosen a better expression.

A DDOS is almost always committed with stolen computers

It's always wrong to abuse other people's property.
But I can't see a problem when everybody is using his own machines to participate in a DDoS. (But most likely that is not the case here)

[BitterTea]

@free speech
Is it immoral to follow someone around in public places and yell louder than they can, drowning them out?

I'm really not sure how I feel about denials of service. I opposed the one on Wikileaks, supported the one on Visa/Mastercard, and oppose the one on MtGox. Depending on the target and motivation of the denying party, I can go either way...

[Littleshop]

@free speech
Is it immoral to follow someone around in public places and yell louder than they can, drowning them out?

I'm really not sure how I feel about denials of service. I opposed the one on Wikileaks, supported the one on Visa/Mastercard, and oppose the one on MtGox. Depending on the target and motivation of the denying party, I can go either way...

If you don't like MtGox or Visa, do not use it.  Tell your friends.  Post web pages.  Do not break other peoples things. 

[pjwaffle]

Do not you think that a decentralized currency Bitcoin a highly centralized to mtgox? So that users are more profitable to move all his bitcoins into mtgox.

Yes, dammit, I resent, because paying for the work with bitcoins!

Confess that you simply draw exchange rates!

I agree, but at this point the community is DEPENDENT on mtgox...

Most USD trades are through it, and the most trading volume (by far) occurs on it.

Unfortunately, this will continue until people see reason to stop (eg. more ddos attacks, or a government attack on it)

[BitterTea]

If you don't like MtGox or Visa, do not use it.  Tell your friends.  Post web pages.  Do not break other peoples things. 

At what point does visiting a web site become immoral? If I visit it once per minute, second, millisecond? A denial of service is fundamentally no different than normal web traffic, just at a much higher volume.

[pjwaffle]

If you don't like MtGox or Visa, do not use it.  Tell your friends.  Post web pages.  Do not break other peoples things. 

At what point does visiting a web site become immoral? If I visit it once per minute, second, millisecond? A denial of service is fundamentally no different than normal web traffic, just at a much higher volume.

I disagree, a ddos attack is a large amount of visits (often from compromised systems) with the intent to deny the service of a website.

Now, making an API check every millisecond isn't a DDoS, because you have a legitamite use for the site, and you certainly don't want to have it shut down.

[SmokeTooMuch]

For the protocol:
After reading the whole thread again, I'm not even sure whether it was bitcoinex behind the DDoS or not.

Please don't discuss this comment Just want to make myself clear because when I've written my previous posts I was sure he did it.

[FooDSt4mP]

If you don't like MtGox or Visa, do not use it.  Tell your friends.  Post web pages.  Do not break other peoples things. 

At what point does visiting a web site become immoral? If I visit it once per minute, second, millisecond? A denial of service is fundamentally no different than normal web traffic, just at a much higher volume.

False.. MtGox is experiencing a SYN flood, which is very different from normal web traffic.  It is a specific attack designed to overload the server's ability to establish TCP connections.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SYN_flood

[Mahkul]

Going back to the subject, we simply need a decentralized solution, as the topic says. If Wikileaks can have their servers everywhere - why can't Bitcoin? There are so many geeks here we surely could come up with something. Besides, the more exchanges the better; some people blame mtgox for being a monopolist (I know this is an exaggeration). Why don't they go ahead and create their own exchange? Instead of complaining just do something.

All these attacks only prove how much we depend on mtgox, we should learn from this and get ourselves together to come up with a decentralized system.

[mewantsbitcoins]

Going back to the subject, we simply need a decentralized solution, as the topic says. If Wikileaks can have their servers everywhere - why can't Bitcoin? There are so many geeks here we surely could come up with something. Besides, the more exchanges the better; some people blame mtgox for being a monopolist (I know this is an exaggeration). Why don't they go ahead and create their own exchange? Instead of complaining just do something.

All these attacks only prove how much we depend on mtgox, we should learn from this and get ourselves together to come up with a decentralized system.

The other night I was thinking about it and come to a conclusion that we need something portable and universal, so that anybody can download it and run it. This piece of software would connect and sync to other nodes and anybody wanting to trade could connect to any of these nodes. Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to implement such system. Is it even feasible?

[Mahkul]

Going back to the subject, we simply need a decentralized solution, as the topic says. If Wikileaks can have their servers everywhere - why can't Bitcoin? There are so many geeks here we surely could come up with something. Besides, the more exchanges the better; some people blame mtgox for being a monopolist (I know this is an exaggeration). Why don't they go ahead and create their own exchange? Instead of complaining just do something.

All these attacks only prove how much we depend on mtgox, we should learn from this and get ourselves together to come up with a decentralized system.

The other night I was thinking about it and come to a conclusion that we need something portable and universal, so that anybody can download it and run it. This piece of software would connect and sync to other nodes and anybody wanting to trade could connect any of these nodes. Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to implement such system. Is it even feasible?

Satoshi! Come back, man.

[Mahkul]

It would be very difficult. While it is possible to code an exchange using a distributed database system (although pretty difficult imo) and just spread this code onto a number of servers, the bank account accepting funds would have to be central. Such a system perhaps would solve the DDoS problem, but not the future problem where the bank account gets shut down by government or something. Hm, maybe it wouldn't have to be central, but the withdrawals would be pretty difficult to organize I think.

[BitterTea]

There's always the cutout method. Each exchange customer opens a bank account, sends one ATM card to the exchange operator and keeps the other. To send money to the exchange, the customer deposits into the account and notifies the exchanger. To withdraw money, the customer notifies the exchanger and then withdraws from the account.

Doesn't scale super well, but it could be that the "exchanger" is a BIG exchanger and the "customer" is a more regional exchanger, who then deals with individuals.

[PLATO]

New thread for discussion of decentralized and/or distributed exchange networks:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7096

[mennoman]

bitcoinex, could you just tell us how old you are please?

[allinvain]

He is 5 years old

[Anonymous]

He is 5 years old

lol.

[mennoman]

hey,

I was asking bitcoinex and I wasn't joking! It is clear how old you guys are!

[molecular]

DDoS is the opposite of free speech.  You are silencing someone else's speech, by brute force.

In my mind it has the same legitimacy as - say - a demonstration stopping an atomic waste transport.

When anonymous attacked sites of corporations linked to cutting off wikileaks funding, I was happily smiling, so I can't say, DDOS is bad per se. Neither is it silencing speech in my mind (at least not in this case, MagilTux is still talking as far as I can tell)

But: The point was made 2 days ago and publicity gained. Continuing the ddos now is just incurring damage (possibly to a competitor) and not legitimate in my moral understanding. The people that stop castor transports let it pass after a while, point made, they're in the news. Continuing would just burden society with uneccessary policing cost and would also be dangerous.

---

Also: While I can understand people are getting a little emotional, I have a problem with the tone of speech of posts here. I'm not defending bitcoinex, but putting your ass where your mouth should be is just not how we should talk to each other, even the most evil wrongdoers, and helps noone. It's also feeding the trolls.

[SmokeTooMuch]

But: The point was made 2 days ago and publicity gained. Continuing the ddos now is just incurring damage (possibly to a competitor) and not legitimate in my moral understanding. The people that stop castor transports let it pass after a while, point made, they're in the news. Continuing would just burden society with uneccessary policing cost and would also be dangerous.

Well, actually they try to block them as long as they can but usually get evacuated by the police.
At least that's how it works in Germany.
Nobody would go to a castor transport stop attempt without having the goal to really stop it.
If it wasn't for the police, these people would build small towns right on the castor transport rails.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

By the way, I am announcing collecting donations for the ddos of mtgox for decreasing exchange rates!

1AvGzvwCxELCaJsxdzunhYTzTL6GVa2xvR

haxorz! please send letter to support@btcex.com and give your money for that work!

This is insanity what you just did.

You have made yourself look childish, unprofessional & simply immoral.
Also, you completely & totally undermined reputation of your exchange !

I will never trade anything on btcex.com after this has happened...  And i will tell all of my friends to never use it.

As of now, I view btcex.com as a FRAUD site.

----
Also, WTF ? :

Site will be opened on 5th may. Please, be patient.

All your money are saved.
You can withdraw your money right after site will be opened.

You can contacts us on any questions by support@btcex.com

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Where is the REASON for closure ?

[Darth Severus]

The other night I was thinking about it and come to a conclusion that we need something portable and universal, so that anybody can download it and run it. This piece of software would connect and sync to other nodes and anybody wanting to trade could connect to any of these nodes. Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to implement such system. Is it even feasible?

Simply a tradingsite inside Tor and using Tor browser. Or everything to Syndie (lol, their website is also offline), it´s dezentral and works over different anonnetworks.

[LZ]

As of now, I view btcex.com as a FRAUD site.

But it is not the fraud site. There are fewer users than on Mt.Gox but no one was deceived.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

But it is not the fraud site.

It is for me.

I do not view a site of which owner coordinates DDoSes as a honest business. Therefore it is fraud. As far as i care.

[LZ]

Okay. As for me I can not be sure was it his DDoS attack or not. Read this.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Okay. As for me I can not be sure was it his DDoS attack or not.

Doesn't matter.
He encouraged people/hackers to attack a rival exchange. That is enough. This is far from honest business.

[BitterTea]

Doesn't matter.
He encouraged people/hackers to attack a rival exchange. That is enough. This is far from honest business.

I agree, but technically, there is nothing fraudulent about it. He was quite open with his support for the DoS.

[mewantsbitcoins]

Okay. As for me I can not be sure was it his DDoS attack or not.

Doesn't matter.
He encouraged people/hackers to attack a rival exchange. That is enough. This is far from honest business.

Get over yourself. He might not be the nicest guy in the world, but there's nothing wrong with his site

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Doesn't matter.
He encouraged people/hackers to attack a rival exchange. That is enough. This is far from honest business.

I agree, but technically, there is nothing fraudulent about it. He was quite open with his support for the DoS.

Hmmm....

–noun
1.
deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.
2.
a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds.
3.
any deception, trickery, or humbug: That diet book is a fraud and a waste of time.

Close enough for me. Fraud it is.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

I am not sure how law would qualify his actions and words. One thing I know for sure, ethic is not something this guy is even familiar with, let alone using it as a guide in his everyday actions.
That is exactly why I will not have any biz with him ever.

Exactly.

I try to be honest myself, so I am not doing business with straightly unethical characters.

[Timo Y]

He encouraged people/hackers to attack a rival exchange. That is enough. This is far from honest business.

He was perfectly honest about it, though!

He may be a nihilist but I don't believe he is dishonest. Not until I see evidence that he has broken a mutual agreement of some sort.

[epii]

He encouraged people/hackers to attack a rival exchange. That is enough. This is far from honest business.

He was perfectly honest about it, though!

He may be a nihilist but I don't believe he is dishonest. Not until I see evidence that he has broken a mutual agreement of some sort.

I believe he was using "honest" here to mean, well...

honest
adj.
1. honorable in principles, intentions, and actions; upright and fair: an honest person.
2. showing uprightness and fairness: honest dealings.
3. gained or obtained fairly: honest wealth.

...all of the above.  It's a matter of opinion whether btcex's business practices are "fair", but for those who believe they are not, a boycott is the best course of action.  "Fairness" aside, I'd certainly not describe his actions and attitudes as "honorable".

[mewantsbitcoins]

Are your egos really that big and offended that you can not see what damage you are doing? He may be an idiot or an outright cunt altogether - why do you care so much? He means well to bitcoin and we all have common goals. If you don't wanna deal with him - that's fine, but do you think making false claims about his site will make a positive contribution to our economy? Get your shit together, stop fighting with each other and move on. If you wanna fight, I'm sure there's plenty coming in the near future from real enemies

[LZ]

Let's live amicably! And without DDoS!

[fetokun]

About the initial statement "decentralized Bitcoin are highly centralized to mtgox"... is there anyone working on a opensource php exchange solution?

[bitdragon]

I love all of you 

[marcus_of_augustus]

... centralised exchange problem is only going to be around during the monetising phase of bitcoin ... after a majority of users have got out of fiat and into crypto-currencies the exchanges will only be between the crypto-money flavours ... and by that time who'll care what business the exchanges are doing?

[ribuck]

I am not sure how law would qualify his actions and words...

That is exactly why I will not have any biz with him ever.

Exactly. Ostracism is usually stronger than law anyway.

[mizerydearia]

sony == evil; ddos sony == good
mtgox != evil; ddos mtgox == bad

However...

Simply by admitting to affiliating with or triggering the distributed denial of service attack does not imply that the ddoser is evil.

Expanding upon the simplicity of the two lines above, it appears that btcex had a partial good (or nonevil) motive, whether it is accepted or agreed upon by one or more community members or not, that may have been misunderstood by an initial "ohnoes, you're ddosing something I use... you're evil now." (hint: "ohnoes, you're ddosing playstation network that I use to play games... you're evil now.")  In the case of ddos against sony, there is a kind of established consensus amongst intelligent critical thinkers that ddosing sony is good and therefore there are many acceptant participants.  In the case of ddos against mtgox, there is not yet any kind of established consensus amongst intelligent critical thinkers that ddosing mtgox is good and therefore there is currently only such known efforts by one individual.

The particular individual that ddosed mtgox is Russian, and that is an additional stereotypical negative reputation factor, however, not all Russians are evil by default.  And some supposed evilnesses of Russians are assumed and perpetuated.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is, and although I will probably never use btcex (as well as most likely never use any physical currency to bitcoin exchange market because I have intention of working for bitcoins instead of working for us dollar), I am not immediately convinced that the supposed ddos attack is guaranteed negative reputation for btcex.  People make mistakes and cause drama (e.g. my mom is horrendously wrong, crazy and evil and blatantly denies it as well as responds oppositionally and retaliatorily in quite nonsensical ways), however, such efforts do not necessarily affect their reputations directly.  e.g. Just because my mom is drama queen, behaves irrationally, causes much frustration, aggravates and frustrates others, whines, complains, hissy fits, interrupts, verbally assaults, excuses herself (e.g. hypocrite), etc. does not mean that I trust her any more or less.  Actually, I just recently vacationed in San Francisco, and she was quite reliable or trustworthy in regards to being there to assist me in responsible and helpful ways.  So, just because she does something that I do not agree with (e.g. triggers a ddos or complains about the Noisebridge community) does not mean she is any more or less reputable, trustworthy, reliable, etc.

[error]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. How do you think we got such things as government?

[Bruce Wagner]

Someone posted that bitcoin withdrawals from BTCex are temporarily disabled... "due to technical issues".

However, bitcoin deposits are still working fine...    Miraculously.   

Anyone who uses this exchange site --- knowing the information presented here --- deserves what they get.

Never do business with scammers and people of no ethics.

NEVER.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Someone posted that bitcoin withdrawals from BTCex are temporarily disabled... "due to technical issues".

However, bitcoin deposits are still working fine...    Miraculously.   

Anyone who uses this exchange site --- knowing the information presented here --- deserves what they get.

Never do business with scammers and people of no ethics.

NEVER.

Agreed, however...

Closed for maintenance

Sorry for any inconvenience.

How do you do withdrawals on a closed site anyway ?

[molecular]

Agreed, however...

Closed for maintenance

Sorry for any inconvenience.

How do you do withdrawals on a closed site anyway ?

pffff. I read the google translation of the referenced forum post.

Obviously btcex closed the exchange because some user threatens to drag him to court in Serbia for not receiving a withdrawal.

Why that makes closing the exchange necessary is beyond me, I suspect other reasons.

[Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza]

I would like to try to solve this problem!
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8078.0

[Bruce Wagner]

Here's what I want to know...
Can anyone please give me a LIST of all the sites, businesses, etc. that are owned by  "bitcoinex"  or his exchange site,  "btcex"....?
I want to be certain to ban them from our directory (as he is a known liar / scammer).

Please reply HERE:  http://bitcoinme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=16#p16

Thanks!     

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Here's what I want to know...
Can anyone please give me a LIST of all the sites, businesses, etc. that are owned by  "bitcoinex"  or his exchange site,  "btcex"....?
I want to be certain to ban them from our directory (as he is a known liar / scammer).

Haha i called him a fraud before and people told me that btcex.com is "not strictly fraud".

Oh the irony.

[BitterTea]

Here's what I want to know...
Can anyone please give me a LIST of all the sites, businesses, etc. that are owned by  "bitcoinex"  or his exchange site,  "btcex"....?
I want to be certain to ban them from our directory (as he is a known liar / scammer).

Please reply HERE:  http://bitcoinme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=16#p16

Thanks!     

Bruce, I understand that you're on a crusade against btcex, but is this all stemming from the DDoS thing? Could you at least refer to him as a "unscrupulous businessman" or point to some evidence that he scammed somebody? Using an attack to generate publicity for an important cause (decentralization of exchanges) is not scamming. Neither is actually funding or planning/executing a DDoS. He may be a douche (I don't have enough information to tell for sure), but I don't see how he's a scammer.

[BitterTea]

Ok, criticism rescinded.

[ribuck]

Here's an angle I haven't seen discussed. I may be misinterpreting this, in which case someone please put me straight. The Russian-English sometimes makes it hard for me to understand.

At the top of this thread, bitcoinex said:

Yes, dammit, I resent, because paying for the work with bitcoins! Confess that you simply draw exchange rates!

My English interpretation is: "Dammit, I resent having to pay people (for work done) with Bitcoins! Confess that you (i.e. MtGox) are fixing the exchange rate!"

Perhaps bitcoinex contracted with someone to do some work, and set a price in BTC (e.g. 100BTC per week). It's now costing too much to buy the BTC to pay for the work being done.

A bit later in this thread:

I'm certainly interested as bitcoiny used to pay for and now I will have to pay 3 times more ... Such jumps put a cross on the distribution of bitcoin as a means of payment.

Interpretation: "I like the idea of Bitcoin as a means of payment, but now I have to pay three times as much (because of the rate increase). These jumps (in the exchange rate) are a black mark against the use of Bitcoin as a means of payment."

Perhaps bitcoinex is financially desperate due to the three-times increase in his costs (measured in fiat), and he can't meet the payments due.

MagicalTux said that the ransom demand associated with the DDOS asked for two things: a sum of money, and for the MtGox exchange rate to be reduced. Now who might want those two particular things?

Then bitcoinex's exchange stops paying out, but for a short time keeps accepting deposits. These things make one wonder.

I'm not making any kind of allegation here. I'm just painting how the material already out there already looks, and inviting bitcoinex to clear his name.

[MagicalTux]

On a side note I should note that while I have contracted people in bitcoins, I always add a condition stating that either party can request a re-evaluation of the paid amount should the bitcoin rate change too much (I usually define "too much" as +/- 10% BTC/USD rate). This is a fair condition, both for me (should the rate incrase too much I can buy additionnal bitcoins easily) and for the other party (should the rate get too low, they can request re-evaluation too, and not continue working for crap).

As for the DDoS itself, it seems that the now installed protections are doing their job as expected. The rate ended going quite high because of people hurrying to buy before the site goes down again instead of buying bits per bits to avoid too large impact on the market, so our russian guys had the exact reverse effect of what they wanted. I'd say it's sad for them, and the fact the rate doesn't seem to be dropping again means everyone trust bitcoins has - or will have - at least the value it has now.

Anyway may this serve as a lesson to everyone: do not make contracts based on a value that can buy a cake one day, and a car the next day.

[FreeMoney]

Here's an angle I haven't seen discussed. I may be misinterpreting this, in which case someone please put me straight. The Russian-English sometimes makes it hard for me to understand.

At the top of this thread, bitcoinex said:

Yes, dammit, I resent, because paying for the work with bitcoins! Confess that you simply draw exchange rates!

My English interpretation is: "Dammit, I resent having to pay people (for work done) with Bitcoins! Confess that you (i.e. MtGox) are fixing the exchange rate!"

Perhaps bitcoinex contracted with someone to do some work, and set a price in BTC (e.g. 100BTC per week). It's now costing too much to buy the BTC to pay for the work being done.

A bit later in this thread:

I'm certainly interested as bitcoiny used to pay for and now I will have to pay 3 times more ... Such jumps put a cross on the distribution of bitcoin as a means of payment.

Interpretation: "I like the idea of Bitcoin as a means of payment, but now I have to pay three times as much (because of the rate increase). These jumps (in the exchange rate) are a black mark against the use of Bitcoin as a means of payment."

Perhaps bitcoinex is financially desperate due to the three-times increase in his costs (measured in fiat), and he can't meet the payments due.

MagicalTux said that the ransom demand associated with the DDOS asked for two things: a sum of money, and for the MtGox exchange rate to be reduced. Now who might want those two particular things?

Then bitcoinex's exchange stops paying out, but for a short time keeps accepting deposits. These things make one wonder.

I'm not making any kind of allegation here. I'm just painting how the material already out there already looks, and inviting bitcoinex to clear his name.

I think you are right. It's hard for people to deal when they haven't experienced anything like this. It's just not safe to agree to pay coins you don't have or to do your accounting in one currency and promise to pay another and not hedge properly.

If I promise to pay someone in coins I have the coins and consider them gone. If I want to protect my feelings about how costly work or goods are I can buy more coins so that the spend was essentially in fiat.

Be sure in your own mind what you are doing. Don't think "I promised to pay 3BTC, that is $24. Oh, shit now it's $58." You never promised to pay $24. You promised 3BTC and nothing has changed about that.

[Justsomeforumuser]

IMHO the guy is scum.


However, it should also be pointed out that anyone making any kind of arrangements in BTC is an idiot. How many currencies of normal countries(Zimbabwe aside, okay?) do you know that have 600% fluctuations in their currency?

Anyone with half an awake central bank fluctuates between -50% - +100% of a certain mean over years(EURUSD: 0.82-1.6 range since around the inception, last 8 years: 1.17-1.6 = less than 40% change). And that is over several months/years, not within 6 weeks.


BTC is like a penny stock, not a currency.
People need to start waking up and put ideology and fantasy aside when it comes to real money, real obligations.

Other than that, what kind of guy has liquidity problems with < $1000 amounts? You should not be doing _ANY_ kind of business if $1000 is a lot of money for you.

[Justsomeforumuser]

Why? A one man shoe-shining business could strive with such amount of startup capital. 

My bad, I thought we were being serious for a second.

[dacoinminster]

MtGox now has a real competitor, so it is now far less decentralized: http://www.tradehill.com/

More features, lower fees (and a 10% discount on all fees if you use this code: TH-R1168)

[molecular]

MtGox now has a real competitor, so it is now far less decentralized: http://www.tradehill.com/

More features, lower fees (and a 10% discount on all fees if you use this code: TH-R1168)

or just use this link to go there: http://tradehill.com/?r=TH-R11543, that's even simpler