How to stop FUD campaigns with bought accounts?

[dewdeded]

How to stop FUD campaigns with bought accounts?
All Monero-threads are full of bought and previous months unused, forum accounts spreading FUD against Monero. It's an big campaign, going over weeks now. It's a big problem, really destroying most serious discussion and all the other bad things coming with it.
It's absolutely enough now. How can this be stoped?

To whom I report these accounts? What "evidence" is needed with the report?
Who is going to delete them?

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[Relnarien]

FUD is part of the altcoin package though. If Monero is indeed a completely independent coin intent on establishing an economic and social infrastructure capable of sustaining itself, then it would have its own discussion board instead of piggybacking on Bitcoin's effective consumer base. And this isn't FUD. As it stands right now, Monero is just another altcoin -- susceptible to all altcoin problems.

If a post is abusive or offensive, then all you need to do is to report it. Spreading FUD isn't a legitimate BCT issue though. If it was, then spreading false hype would be as well, and that would pretty much get most of the altcoin threads deleted.

[dnaleor]

The only solution I see it that the "monero" dev account creates a new thread, this time self moderated...

[dewdeded]

If these accounts get deleted in time, these attacks would stop.

Simple as that. It's just needs a stuff member to click on the "Delete Account" button.
Dont act like this would be impossible, it's possible on any other forum in this universe.

[onemorebtc]

If these accounts get deleted in time, these attacks would stop.

Simple as that. It's just needs a stuff member to click on the "Delete Account" button.
Dont act like this would be impossible, it's possible on any other forum in this universe.

personally i think all moderators should have done that to the hole altcoin-subforum.

but: here is free-speech honored and this is good.
if monero would move to a self-moderated thread i'd continue reading at bitcointa.lk. i just dont like censorship.
free-speech always comes with a price....

[othe]

Registering fake accounts to spread lies and offtopic nonsense has absolutely nothing todo with free speech.

Btw. that this comes from someone who has sold his account to Bytecoin...

[acs267]

Registering fake accounts to spread lies and offtopic nonsense has absolutely nothing todo with free speech.

Btw. that this comes from someone who has sold his account to Bytecoin...

You must be mentally challenged (I don't use that lightly. I try to sway away from it), or you're too good at sarcasm. I'm going to go with the latter.

If these accounts get deleted in time, these attacks would stop.

Simple as that. It's just needs a stuff member to click on the "Delete Account" button.
Dont act like this would be impossible, it's possible on any other forum in this universe.

It's useless. People can still get on, anyway. What's really the point? If they want to spread FUD, they're going to do it. If you're not stupid enough to listen, don't even try to tell anyone else not to. It's like loaning someone fifty grand, and they only have a penny to their name.

[AT101ET]

FUD always happens. If you're threads are constantly being bombarded by people spreading FUD, you can make a self moderates thread. However, people may question your reason for doing so and may accuse you of all other sorts of things by fring to cover up stuff etc.
To be honest, the best way if dealing with FUD is by ignoring it. Keep posting good stuff and let people do the math for themselves. If people here only believe what they read, then this isn't the right place for them. They need to invest in wha they believe is good and what suits them after doing their own research.

[othe]

Registering fake accounts to spread lies and offtopic nonsense has absolutely nothing todo with free speech.

Btw. that this comes from someone who has sold his account to Bytecoin...

You must be mentally challenged (I don't use that lightly. I try to sway away from it), or you're too good at sarcasm. I'm going to go with the latter.

If these accounts get deleted in time, these attacks would stop.

Simple as that. It's just needs a stuff member to click on the "Delete Account" button.
Dont act like this would be impossible, it's possible on any other forum in this universe.

It's useless. People can still get on, anyway. What's really the point? If they want to spread FUD, they're going to do it. If you're not stupid enough to listen, don't even try to tell anyone else not to. It's like loaning someone fifty grand, and they only have a penny to their name.

I have no idea what you mean, but onemorebtc is someone who has sold his bitcointalk account: http://k1024.de/accountsold.txt

So yes, i find it ironic that someone like that replies in this thread.

I also have no idea why you felt offended by my post?

[spidergoat]

Simple solution, remove all the alt coin section. 99.9% of alt coins are fud promoted by multi accounts.

[David Latapie]

As it stands right now, Monero is just another altcoin -- susceptible to all altcoin problems.

Bitcoin is not immune to fudding either. Fudders are just of a higher grade (think Warren Buffet).

Everything that succeeds is prone to FUD. Gold, real estate, Internet, science, even mankind. Everything.

[onemorebtc]

I have no idea what you mean, but onemorebtc is someone who has sold his bitcointalk account: http://k1024.de/accountsold.txt

yes i sold... is this a crime now?
i did not sell to bcn btw... just to an account-trader here

i just lost too much btc on this forum to scams and need that 1btc i got.

[Lauda]

I'm guessing you are a Monero supporter? 
This happens to literally every altcoin, self-moderated thread is the only solution.

[BigMac]

To whom I report these accounts? What "evidence" is needed with the report?
Who is going to delete them?

Accounts trading is allowed here on bitcointalk, so as using multiple accounts (only exception is ban evading).
So, you don't need to report those accounts.

[Hazir]

They only way is to gather more people on your side and scream louder. You can't do anything to stop them, you just may outshout them.

[smooth]

I largely agree that FUD can't be stopped.

However, sometimes it does go too far. For example, a few of these accounts have recently been making false accusations of operating a botnet (a criminal act).

I'd argue such false accusations of criminal activity justifies a ban, and other multiple accounts under common control that continue to post would be evading such a ban.

[onemorebtc]

the problem is that there is no way to prohibit or detect it.
how to proof someone has multiple accounts?
how to proof someone has sold his account?

its just fairer to allow it: at least anybody can be aware then.

to be honest: i am very sure that most of the altcoin forum users are all socket accounts...thats one reason i consider nearly ANY alt a scam... not sure about CN-family  (esp. the two biggest). only time will tell i guess....

[kbm]

I largely agree that FUD can't be stopped.

However, sometimes it does go too far. For example, a few of these accounts have recently been making false accusations of operating a botnet (a criminal act).

I'd argue such false accusations of criminal activity justifies a ban, and other multiple accounts under common control that continue to post would be evading such a ban.

Yeah, plus now they're throwing around claims of actual racism in addition to the botnets. they're literally onto personal attacks of character now, there's not much more you can do with FUD from there. The next step is actual attacks, or a massively broad campaign .. there seems to have already been one escalation, and it would be miserable to see it be elevated further.

I'd agree with banning, specifically temporary IP banning would be a large step in the right direction. Consider the amount of work that would be involved if this forum were to be subpoena'd regularly because these criminal acts were allowed to continue?

[Rias]

I largely agree that FUD can't be stopped.

However, sometimes it does go too far. For example, a few of these accounts have recently been making false accusations of operating a botnet (a criminal act).

I'd argue such false accusations of criminal activity justifies a ban, and other multiple accounts under common control that continue to post would be evading such a ban.

There are confirmed botnets in XMR (re-check our recent discussion in XMR thread), which is the issue for the currency development. It's very weird of you to dismiss this fact and put the blame on the accounts concerned with it.

[smooth]

I largely agree that FUD can't be stopped.

However, sometimes it does go too far. For example, a few of these accounts have recently been making false accusations of operating a botnet (a criminal act).

I'd argue such false accusations of criminal activity justifies a ban, and other multiple accounts under common control that continue to post would be evading such a ban.

There are confirmed botnets in XMR (re-check our recent discussion in XMR thread), which is the issue for the currency development. It's very weird of you to dismiss this fact and put the blame on the accounts concerned with it.

The accusation was that xmr devs were running botnets, not that botnets exist. That is a false accusation of criminal activity directed at specific individuals

[MisO69]

I wouldn't worry about the bullshit these guys are spreading. Most people are smart enough to figure out the lies these sock puppets purport.

Like someone said in another thread. Monero; still alpha software, no GUI wallet, no services, no merchants, etc.. Yet still in the top 20 market cap. That alone says enough to investors.

[Kruncha]

Evil trolls have attacked poor Monero which has nobody protecting it but righteous moderators and their mighty banhammers. Everyone is attacking them with bought drones and FUD, while they endure all the suffering. To be brutally honest I think you’re deluding yourself here, good sir.

There are people on both sides of the barricades who engage in the kind of activities like this. There are even open claims of buying people for Monero promotion purposes. We have no clue if anything in this is actually true and whether those people are bots, and that’s exactly why you can’t just spout random accusations and hope to achieve anything rational. I recommend you to just accept it, because, as people have already said, FUD seems to be an essential part of almost every altcoin’s marketing efforts, no matter how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ it seems to you. Sad really but these are the facts.


K.

[onemorebtc]

Evil trolls have attacked poor Monero which has nobody protecting it but righteous moderators and their mighty banhammers. Everyone is attacking them with bought drones and FUD, while they endure all the suffering. To be brutally honest I think you’re deluding yourself here, good sir.

There are https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673203.msg7646086#msg7646086 people https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338158;sa=showPosts on both sides of the barricades who engage https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338550;sa=showPosts in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338171;sa=showPosts the kind of activities like this. There are https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg7529644#msg7529644 even open claims of buying people for Monero promotion purposes. We have no clue if anything in this is actually true and whether those people are bots, and that’s exactly why you can’t just spout random accusations and hope to achieve anything rational. I recommend you to just accept it, because, as people have already said, FUD seems to be an essential part of almost every altcoin’s marketing efforts, no matter how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ it seems to you. Sad really but these are the facts.


K.

damn.. i was pretty sure to end up on such a list
but i am not trolling or fudding... just stating my opinion as usual

EDIT: btw the only thing you can do about trolls is laugh about them.. you know that you did something right when others are jelous

[smooth]

Evil trolls have attacked poor Monero which has nobody protecting it but righteous moderators and their mighty banhammers. Everyone is attacking them with bought drones and FUD, while they endure all the suffering. To be brutally honest I think you’re deluding yourself here, good sir.

There are https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673203.msg7646086#msg7646086 people https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338158;sa=showPosts on both sides of the barricades who engage https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338550;sa=showPosts in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338171;sa=showPosts the kind of activities like this. There are https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg7529644#msg7529644 even open claims of buying people for Monero promotion purposes. We have no clue if anything in this is actually true and whether those people are bots, and that’s exactly why you can’t just spout random accusations and hope to achieve anything rational. I recommend you to just accept it, because, as people have already said, FUD seems to be an essential part of almost every altcoin’s marketing efforts, no matter how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ it seems to you. Sad really but these are the facts.

You found four cheerleader accounts with two posts each (one of which on the Monero thread itself, one of which on another coin's thread, but no no way attacking the other coin), all posted on exact same day a month and a half ago (and never since), and somehow you think this is equivalent of hundreds of troll and FUD posts over a period of months, including false accusations of criminal activity?

You are very confused.

[Kruncha]

Evil trolls have attacked poor Monero which has nobody protecting it but righteous moderators and their mighty banhammers. Everyone is attacking them with bought drones and FUD, while they endure all the suffering. To be brutally honest I think you’re deluding yourself here, good sir.

There are https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673203.msg7646086#msg7646086 people https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338158;sa=showPosts on both sides of the barricades who engage https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338550;sa=showPosts in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338171;sa=showPosts the kind of activities like this. There are https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg7529644#msg7529644 even open claims of buying people for Monero promotion purposes. We have no clue if anything in this is actually true and whether those people are bots, and that’s exactly why you can’t just spout random accusations and hope to achieve anything rational. I recommend you to just accept it, because, as people have already said, FUD seems to be an essential part of almost every altcoin’s marketing efforts, no matter how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ it seems to you. Sad really but these are the facts.

You found four cheerleader accounts with two posts each (one of which on the Monero thread itself, one of which on another coin's thread, but no no way attacking the other coin), all posted on exact same day a month and a half ago (and never since), and somehow you think this is equivalent of hundreds of troll and FUD posts over a period of months, including false accusations of criminal activity?

You are very confused.

I think these examples are more than enough to demonstrate the behaviour which is occurring - at any rate, the OP included no evidence at all, but we all agree that it is happening. Anyhow, these people have zero effect on the success of the coins - popularity is achieved by smart marketing and the inherent value of the underlying technology, not hype men.


K.

[bitgeek]

They spam in the threads and IMO can impact the overall opinion on the topic. Would you be happy if your relevant post was overwhelmed by multiple spam posts written by sock puppets? It's just hard to find anything in this mess.

[onemorebtc]

They spam in the threads and IMO can impact the overall opinion on the topic. Would you be happy if your relevant post was overwhelmed by multiple spam posts written by sock puppets? It's just hard to find anything in this mess.

this can be solved with local thread rules.
for research purposes a wiki is better than a forum thread...a forum thread is sadly always hard to search through (but you are right, that many fud posts are making it even harder and its more boring too)

[keithers]

Wouldn't it be best for people to kind of just self moderate, and ignore the people they don't want to hear from?

[smooth]

I think these examples are more than enough to demonstrate the behaviour which is occurring - at any rate, the OP included no evidence at all, but we all agree that it is happening. Anyhow, these people have zero effect on the success of the coins - popularity is achieved by smart marketing and the inherent value of the underlying technology, not hype men.

I'm not sure the original concern was even about the success of a coin.

It was more about behavior of purchased and sock puppet accounts spreading lies. The examples you came up with were cheerleading (though minimal in volume -- looks to me like something a single immature participant did in one day and then lost interest) but were not lies. Other than the one claiming I worked for him as a shill, which was in fact a lie (and a good example of the type of post cited by OP).

My concern specifically is fraudulent and abusive (and likely libelous, possibly in some places criminal) behavior of making false accusations of criminal acts, racism, and other unethical or disreputable behavior or characteristics. If you think that is just fine because it happens to involve an altcoin, we disagree.

I would actually like to hear from forum mods and/or admin whether false accusations of criminal acts or racism are acceptable uses.

[mprep]

I think these examples are more than enough to demonstrate the behaviour which is occurring - at any rate, the OP included no evidence at all, but we all agree that it is happening. Anyhow, these people have zero effect on the success of the coins - popularity is achieved by smart marketing and the inherent value of the underlying technology, not hype men.

I'm not sure the original concern was even about the success of a coin.

It was more about behavior of purchased and sock puppet accounts spreading lies. The examples you came up with were cheerleading (though minimal in volume -- looks to me like something a single immature participant did in one day and then lost interest) but were not lies. Other than the one claiming I worked for him as a shill, which was in fact a lie (and a good example of the type of post cited by OP).

My concern specifically is fraudulent and abusive (and likely libelous, possibly in some places criminal) behavior of making false accusations of criminal acts, racism, and other unethical or disreputable behavior or characteristics. If you think that is just fine because it happens to involve an altcoin, we disagree.

I would actually like to hear from forum mods and/or admin whether false accusations of criminal acts or racism are acceptable uses.

Regarding false accusations of any kind, we can't really be sure if it's true: more often than not we have nor the power, nor the time to find if the info is true or not so we don't usually remove them, same with avoiding moderation of (real or not) scams. A different reason regarding racism - according to the forum policy, it's allowed since it's considered a person's opinion, even if it's offensive, and the forum prides itself on free speech.

[smooth]

Regarding false accusations of any kind, we can't really be sure if it's true: more often than not we have nor the power, nor the time to find if the info is true or not so we don't usually remove them, same with avoiding moderation of (real or not) scams. A different reason regarding racism - according to the forum policy, it's allowed since it's considered a person's opinion, even if it's offensive, and the forum prides itself on free speech.

Racism itself isn't the same as accusing someone else of racism, but that likely falls within the first category.

Thank you for the answer.

[dewdeded]

Just a reminder:

The thread is about FUD from "bought accounts", not from "fresh regged accounts" (who no1 is taking seriously).

[ajareselde]

To whom I report these accounts? What "evidence" is needed with the report?
Who is going to delete them?

Accounts trading is allowed here on bitcointalk, so as using multiple accounts (only exception is ban evading).
So, you don't need to report those accounts.

 believe account sales are allowed, just not encouraged (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0)
quote : "18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged."


cheers

[Panthers52]

To whom I report these accounts? What "evidence" is needed with the report?
Who is going to delete them?

Accounts trading is allowed here on bitcointalk, so as using multiple accounts (only exception is ban evading).
So, you don't need to report those accounts.

 believe account sales are allowed, just not encouraged (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0)
quote : "18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged."


cheers

That is not an official list of forum rules. I believe that account selling is allowed as if they tried to stop it then sales would be done via PMs, IRC, on other sites, ect.

[Justin00]

Buy your own accounts to counteract any FUD

BAM! Problem solved...

[dewdeded]

Buy your own accounts to counteract any FUD

BAM! Problem solved...

[Hazir]

Buy your own accounts to counteract any FUD

BAM! Problem solved...

No, it is serious. It is actually valid strategy. It is always better to has bigger crowd shouting that others are wrong.

[DMeeks]

From what I know about this forum policy through my short stay is not to interfere with topics or delete posts even the absolute- 2 day old troll accounts. Also Multi-account is allowed as far as I can understand "and I suppose posting with them is allowed as well" . following the old way and making a self-moderated topic is the best solution (though that might cause some doubts for users).