World Bank Report: Bitcoin is a ‘Naturally Occurring’ Ponzi

[franky1]

world bank has no clue, they believe that bitcoins are worth under 1c and people are making over $600 profit..
im sorry world bank but thats what bank notes are...

wont they realise that there are costs involved in making bitcoins, which give it the high price.. meaning if it costs hundreds to make a bitcoin, no on will sell for less (unless they are panicking idiots). the true cost of bitcoin is nearing $550 right now on average (yes there is some variances) so the "speculation" aspect is only about 10%-20%(bringing it over the $600 mark).... not 100%

gold is the same they have true costs and "speculative" profit area above it too..

if world bank has that mindset, then biggest ponzi is bank notes as it costs pennies to make the paper bank notes yet costs people alot of money to get..

as for bubble. bitcoin is not a bubble.. bitcoin is a bathtub of water, yes there are lots of bubbles and the more people jump in and splash about the more bubbles there are, and even if the bubbles die down,,, the bathtub still holds water and does its job. the good thing about bitcoin is that even if the amount of people jumping in and out may raise or lower the water level in the bath, the bitcoin protocol does NOT have a water plug that can be pulled. no single person can empty the water out, but bank notes get decommissioned all the time. just look at banks attempting to get rid of bank notes and be pure electronic transactions.

[Cred]

It's government bonds that are the ponzi. To save the dollar from collapse after the default from the gold standard early investors were promised 15% returns which would magically come from somewhere. Somewhere being the increasing debts of later entrants who have to borrow more and more to buy the same house. They only keep that ponzi going by offering less and less return with the threat of inflation.

Bitcoin now offers an alternative and will bring an end to their scam.

[adoni]

The clown that wrote the article is a clown and has no grasp of fiat currency and trust factors.

Here's a fiat currency example which is what the USD and Bitcoin is, something you accept in trade that has no inherent value but the parties in the fiat transaction agree the fiat  has a value.

So we live on a remote island filled with coconuts, I'm the big dog of the island and I have a harem of chicks.

My chicks like coconuts, so my harem agrees to perform services to the little dogs on the island in trade for coconuts.

Now my harem brings me in all the coconuts on the island, I'm the king of coconuts.

Do coconuts have value, they actually have more intrinsic value than say the USD or even Bitcoin, you can eat a coconut, drink it's milk and refine it into oil.

So coconuts may be a bad example of fiat, since by definition it has to have NO INTRINSIC VALUE but the parties in the trade agree it has value.

But the point I was trying to make, was the guys climbing trees to get the nuts are doing work to take the trade of the chicks making them happy.

So the chicks agree to perform services for coconuts since their big dog daddy pimp likes the juice.

If everyone in the network didn't agree the coconuts had value, the chicks wouldn't be servicing the guys and the guys wouldn't be climbing trees.

Now if the big dog pimp liked shrimp, then shrimp would be the currency, but since food has intrinsic value, it's technically not fiat.

More of a barter system.

Now once we move that trade network into say sea shells, what value has a sea shell, none really, so shells were one of the first real fiat systems.

Then some learned to use metals and currency took value in metals, primarily silver and gold due to scarcity, but what value really was metal to humans with no tech, it was for jewelry maybe.

Now maybe the humans were influenced by the ancient astronauts in Sumeria who created them to mine metals like gold and silver as ancient texts say.

So ancient cultures adopted GOLD as having value since their tech master slave owners aliens needed it in their tech.

Absolutely no reason existed for humans to become so enamored with GOLD 5,000 years ago unless an outside agent influenced their value of it.

So real currency systems evolved using metals and coinage.

Then some kingdoms debased their coins by adding lesser metals.

Then this paper crap called currency with NO INTRINSIC VALUE was created and the aliens are now laughing.

Through it all the network or commerce group AGREED to something they exchange for goods and services had value.

Food is probably the best currency but then it's barter, you can eat food.

Gold? Well with tech today it has industrial value.

US Dollars NO INTRINSIC VALUE
Bitcoin NO INTRINSIC VALUE

Yet a network of people are agreeing to take bitcoin in exchange for goods and services so as that user base GROWS its TRUST FACTOR GROWS

Bitcoin Algorithm of TRUST shows user base or trust factor is the only thing propelling the value.

7K users 5 bucks
70K users 50 bucks
700K users 500 bucks
7M users 5K bucks
70M users 50K bucks
700M users 500k
7B users 5M

So the size of the trade network of users AGREEING something of NO INTRINSIC VALUE is why bitcoin has value

Now you can understand where bitcoin is going

AS LONG AS TRUST FACTOR OR USERS INCREASE

The limited supply of bitcoin is a simple fraction of the user percentage of the GWP population of 7 Billion people

[beetcoin]

world bank, of all the organizations, calling bitcoin a scam? what.. the fuck? world bank is a scam in itself.. their business model is about giving big loans at ridiculous interest rates, and then fleecing the 3rd world country.

[odolvlobo]

The Coin Desk article's title is wrong. The paper never says that Bitcoin is a bubble or a "naturally-occurring" Ponzi scheme.

Here is where Bitcoin is mentioned.

One of the most recent cases of bubbles occurred in the new ‘Bitcoin’ experiment. Bitcoin is a crypto currency, the main and original attraction of which is the low transactions cost associated with its use. One can buy Bitcoin the way one can buy euros and trade freely with others having euros. Trouble started when  people began speculating that the value of Bitcoin would rise, thereby raising the demand for Bitcoin and making the value-rise a self-fulfilling prophesy. In other words, what we witnessed recently in the Bitcoin phenomenon fits the standard definition of a speculative bubble.

Contrary to a widely-held opinion, Bitcoin is not a deliberate Ponzi. And there is little to learn by treating it as such. The main value of Bitcoin may, in retrospect, turn out to be the lessons it offers to central banks on the prospects of electronic currency, and on how to enhance efficiency and cut transactions cost.

Nobody would deny that there have been speculative bubbles in the Bitcoin market, and the author of the paper does consider these bubbles to be "naturally-occurring" Ponzi schemes (wrongly in my opinion), but the paper never says that Bitcoin itself is a bubble or a "naturally-occurring" Ponzi scheme.

[aztecminer]

world bank, of all the organizations, calling bitcoin a scam? what.. the fuck? world bank is a scam in itself.. their business model is about giving big loans at ridiculous interest rates, and then fleecing the 3rd world country.

... with debt slavery called infinite interest .. one day we will look back on their schemes as a form of slavery .

[BitcoinTraders]

Bitcoins by their definition, are simply a measure of currency, saying "Bitcoin is a naturally occurring ponzi" is like saying "Dollars are a natural occurring ponzi"

[Justine]

Bitcoins by their definition, are simply a measure of currency, saying "Bitcoin is a naturally occurring ponzi" is like saying "Dollars are a natural occurring ponzi"

Fractional reserve system is a natural occurring ponzi is more accurate.

[fonenumba]

Sure, if you stretch the definition of ponzi to include market bubbles...

They stretched the definition too far and produced statements with no intellectual honesty. It is much more accurate to say that "Bitcoin is a popular vehicle for excess speculation" or "Bitcoin is not a Ponzi, but does have some fascinating similarities".

bitcoin has had several market bubbles in the past but has not had any in roughly 9 months now. I would argue that even speculation in bitcoin is decreasing.

There is 0 evidence that bitcoin is anything close to a ponzi

[Cicero2.0]

Bitcoins by their definition, are simply a measure of currency, saying "Bitcoin is a naturally occurring ponzi" is like saying "Dollars are a natural occurring ponzi"

I think of dollars like a pyramid scheme. The average people do all the work and the people at the top reap the big rewards simply because they happen to be at the top. They are always whipping us into a frenzy to go out there and make more, borrow more, and spend more. 

[cbeast]

The main value of Bitcoin may, in retrospect, turn out to be the lessons it offers to central banks on the prospects of electronic currency, and on how to enhance efficiency and cut transactions cost.

They already are using the best security they can for an obsolete system. The only way they can push that pig to make it fly is off a cliff.

[KimNam]

World Bank just like some people who doesn't understand how bitcoin works, they will think this is ponzi
or they just afraid bitcoin will destroy their scum system?

Bitcoins by their definition, are simply a measure of currency, saying "Bitcoin is a naturally occurring ponzi" is like saying "Dollars are a natural occurring ponzi"

Fractional reserve system is a natural occurring ponzi is more accurate.

couldn't agree more!
and they still ignore that fact and still using it
LOL to world bank

[mercistheman]

All bitcoiners should put a comment on this P.O.S. "paper"...
Banks that are loaning your money without gold backing have zero room to be talking about Ponzi schemes.

[RepublicSpace]

I think Naturally Occurring’ Ponzi thesis is somewhat correct. However, bitcoin has interesting/valuable features. The last citation is very interesting. Will cash vanish in the near future?

[FUR11]

Well, describing Bitcoin as a naturally occurring Ponzi is somewhat interesting, because it actually describes some of its facts and reasons, why bitcoin is successful to begin with. A lot of people would never start investing in bitcoin if they didn't have the chance of gaining some money by doing so. Why would just put their money in Jeopardy. Early adopters do profit, yes. This part looks like a Ponzi. But Bitcoin doesn't need any new people to join the system in order to work. That's the key difference form a Ponzi!

[odolvlobo]

I think Naturally Occurring’ Ponzi thesis is somewhat correct.

The problem with the "naturally-occurring Ponzi" thesis is that a "naturally-occurring" Ponzi scheme isn't even a Ponzi scheme. Plus, the term describes all commodity investments.

[Lauda]

I think Naturally Occurring’ Ponzi thesis is somewhat correct.

The problem with the "naturally-occurring Ponzi" thesis is that a "naturally-occurring" Ponzi scheme isn't even a Ponzi scheme. Plus, the term describes all commodity investments.

Exactly, how can there be a naturally-occurring Ponzi?
When the definition is:"a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a non-existent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.".
So fraud happens naturally? 

[Bitcoinpro]

the Bitcoin price stability has debunked the ponzi/bubble theory already

how are they basing their story

and i haven't clicked on the link yet is anyone able to explain it?

[Bit_Happy]

Bitcoin is clean and wholesome:
Hey, are most alt coins "Naturally Occurring’ Ponzi" schemes?   

[Bitcoinpro]

Bitcoin is clean and wholesome:
Hey, are most alt coins "Naturally Occurring’ Ponzi" schemes?   

fundamentally they are actually quite sound investment ideas though the fact they replicate

bitcoin means they have weaker network strength and are vulnerable to attack and destabilization

bitcoin still has weaknesses associated with exchange manipulation and leverage though

it does have a fixed number which prevents much larger downswings,