51% problem still existant after all coins have been mined ?

[Soappa]

I dont hink it will be a problen once all coins are mined.

Not really, people with a majority of network hashrate can still launch double spend attacks on casinos and exchanges, even when there is no block reward at all.

[1714024797]

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[kingama]

The key defence to problems of miner concentration is keeping the hashrate distributed among unrelated pools. People cite 40% or 30% as a threshold but really it should be lower. That is you need to ensure that n parties cannot collude to do this attack. For the case of n = 3, you get 100/6 or 16.7% as a threshold value. I suppose as the mining community matures even lower thresholds will be seen as prerequisite policy. Things also tend to settle down when hashrate isn't increasing like a mofo.

Whether tx fees will be enough remains to be seen but if enough commerce will ever support it, 30-100 years should be enough time to get there. It's only been 20 or so years since the Internet started to become widely used.

[littlewizard]

Yes, of course it exist, as long as there is POW, their is 51% attack, it doesn't matter if there is block reward or not.

[MilesJohan]

Someday all Bitcoins will have been mined.

Is mining then still necessary ?

And is the 51% problem still in existance ?

Actually, it is easiest to 51% attack after all bitcoins have been mined due to the decrease in difficulty...

[ranochigo]

Someday all Bitcoins will have been mined.

Is mining then still necessary ?

And is the 51% problem still in existance ?

Actually, it is easiest to 51% attack after all bitcoins have been mined due to the decrease in difficulty...

Difficulty may not decrease since no new coins are released to the trading market. There would be much more demands. Miners can still earn from transaction fees which is probably around $10-100. I don't think much people would stop mining since even advanced ASICs would have came out. If everyone stops mining, many would turn on their machine again to profit pushing the difficulty up.

[lynn_402]

Someday all Bitcoins will have been mined.

Is mining then still necessary ?

And is the 51% problem still in existance ?

Actually, it is easiest to 51% attack after all bitcoins have been mined due to the decrease in difficulty...

Difficulty may not decrease since no new coins are released to the trading market. There would be much more demands. Miners can still earn from transaction fees which is probably around $10-100. I don't think much people would stop mining since even advanced ASICs would have came out. If everyone stops mining, many would turn on their machine again to profit pushing the difficulty up.

Since this will be in so many years, I think it's safe to say that the developpers will find a way to adapt so 51% attacks are not a concern.

A new algorithm perhaps?

[ranochigo]

Someday all Bitcoins will have been mined.

Is mining then still necessary ?

And is the 51% problem still in existance ?

Actually, it is easiest to 51% attack after all bitcoins have been mined due to the decrease in difficulty...

Difficulty may not decrease since no new coins are released to the trading market. There would be much more demands. Miners can still earn from transaction fees which is probably around $10-100. I don't think much people would stop mining since even advanced ASICs would have came out. If everyone stops mining, many would turn on their machine again to profit pushing the difficulty up.

Since this will be in so many years, I think it's safe to say that the developpers will find a way to adapt so 51% attacks are not a concern.

A new algorithm perhaps?

A new algorithm may be incompatible for ASICs. It isn't easy for developers to just make a fork and make all the users and miners to switch to a new client. It doesn't benefit those with big ASIC farms since all their hardware would be wasted.

[Fenriswolf]

A new algorithm may be incompatible for ASICs. It isn't easy for developers to just make a fork and make all the users and miners to switch to a new client. It doesn't benefit those with big ASIC farms since all their hardware would be wasted.

And that is really bad? If the new algorithm is incompatible with asics, maybe many of the users (who are far from mining because of the dificulty and costs) will start to mine themselves for the stability and safety of the network...

[lynn_402]

Someday all Bitcoins will have been mined.

Is mining then still necessary ?

And is the 51% problem still in existance ?

Actually, it is easiest to 51% attack after all bitcoins have been mined due to the decrease in difficulty...

Difficulty may not decrease since no new coins are released to the trading market. There would be much more demands. Miners can still earn from transaction fees which is probably around $10-100. I don't think much people would stop mining since even advanced ASICs would have came out. If everyone stops mining, many would turn on their machine again to profit pushing the difficulty up.

Since this will be in so many years, I think it's safe to say that the developpers will find a way to adapt so 51% attacks are not a concern.

A new algorithm perhaps?

A new algorithm may be incompatible for ASICs. It isn't easy for developers to just make a fork and make all the users and miners to switch to a new client. It doesn't benefit those with big ASIC farms since all their hardware would be wasted.

Perhaps a PoW-like system would be made, which makes 51% attacks impossible, and would still be compatible with ASICs. It's so far in the future that there's no way to know what kind of developpment will happen

[nwfella]

Most people wont live that long to see all this mined.

There isn't a person alive today that will be alive the day the last Bitcoin is mined.

Last bitcoin won't be mined til 2140 so unless your thinking medical technology is going to extend lifespan's pretty significantly in the next 120 some odd years or so I don't think anybody on these forums will ever witness the last coin being mined.

[adaryian]

Really the best way to keep from the 51% is to not mine at pools above 40%.  That way it keeps the protocol decentralized.

[Peter882]

A new algorithm may be incompatible for ASICs. It isn't easy for developers to just make a fork and make all the users and miners to switch to a new client. It doesn't benefit those with big ASIC farms since all their hardware would be wasted.

And that is really bad? If the new algorithm is incompatible with asics, maybe many of the users (who are far from mining because of the dificulty and costs) will start to mine themselves for the stability and safety of the network...

It is not easy to implement such change as it will be a hard fork.
The core devs will need to get a certain degree of consensus from bitcoin users, merchants and miners.

[ranochigo]

A new algorithm may be incompatible for ASICs. It isn't easy for developers to just make a fork and make all the users and miners to switch to a new client. It doesn't benefit those with big ASIC farms since all their hardware would be wasted.

And that is really bad? If the new algorithm is incompatible with asics, maybe many of the users (who are far from mining because of the dificulty and costs) will start to mine themselves for the stability and safety of the network...

Yes. For people who invested a lot of money into mining, they don't have any chances of getting ROI. If the new algorithm can be CPU mined effectively, botnet mining would resurface. Botnet mining are most probably stopped now since the difficulty is so high.

[Fenriswolf]

Understood, guess there's much into it

Thanks ranochigo and Peter882 for the info!

[lynn_402]

A new algorithm may be incompatible for ASICs. It isn't easy for developers to just make a fork and make all the users and miners to switch to a new client. It doesn't benefit those with big ASIC farms since all their hardware would be wasted.

And that is really bad? If the new algorithm is incompatible with asics, maybe many of the users (who are far from mining because of the dificulty and costs) will start to mine themselves for the stability and safety of the network...

Yes. For people who invested a lot of money into mining, they don't have any chances of getting ROI. If the new algorithm can be CPU mined effectively, botnet mining would resurface. Botnet mining are most probably stopped now since the difficulty is so high.

I'm guessing they are still quite present, since they cost nothing for the operator. And they are most likely very profitable with X11 or X13 or whatever.