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Author Topic: [ANN][XCN] Cryptonite | 1st mini-blockchain coin | M7 PoW | No Premine  (Read 517097 times)
mmmaybe
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August 03, 2014, 12:19:27 AM
 #881

Cpuminer on xcn.1gh.com updated now, 40%+ speedup.

Thanks  Smiley I think I have less booo's too now

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cubydu
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August 03, 2014, 12:33:42 AM
 #882

coinmarketcap.com added XCN

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August 03, 2014, 12:34:42 AM
 #883

okay so i'm trying out http://xcn.1gh.com/ with the CPU miner D program

seem to be getting a lot of rejects, is there a list of arguments i can toy with? never done cpu mining before

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dga
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August 03, 2014, 01:15:07 AM
 #884

I'm rather a fan of the PoW, seeing as how i wrote it and all. I think nobody has really sat down to think about how hard that "silly multiplication" is for GPU's and ASIC, and there is no evidence that a GPU miner has been created. I'm working on one in spare time to prove how much it will suck. I mean it will work, but won't be massively faster than CPU. Especially if someone sits down to optimize CPU for AVX. The ultimate combination is probably GPU for hashing and CPU for multiply. Might get somewhere doing that but it's a whole new kind of rig to have that kind of balance.

Lemme give you some numbers:

750ti = 160 32x32 bit multipliers @ 1gz = 160B 32bit per second
4770k = 16 64x64 bit multiplication per clock @ 3.6ghz = 57.6B 64bit muls ~= 330.4B 32bit per second

Theres no fighting that. It is raw ALU power.

You're underestimating the fraction of time spent in the hashes vs the multiply.  Less than 12% of the current execution time is in gmp bignum functions with your current code, with 88% in hashing (22% of that in one hash function -- easy target for optimization, which I'm sure wolf or someone else has already done).  The one saving grace there is that gmp is avx2 optimized on my platform already, and none of your hashes are yet.  But that leaves things at still < 30% of time in bignum once everything's on an equal optimization footing.  And it's likely that there's some low-hanging optimization possible, given that 6.7% of the time is spent in __gmpz_export and that there's no effort taken to avoid unnecessary allocation and deallocation of the mpzs.  Hint:  there are faster ways to get the data out of gmp if you don't care about portability.

Taking that all together, I'd guess that at most 15-20% of the eventual optimized runtime will be in the multiplication.  The GPUs will win.  You've created a *great* target for Claymore, though, with his pre-built library of bignum routines from writing the XPM miner. Smiley

(And to those reading this, no, I don't have an optimized miner - I ran it through a profiler to see what it was, but decided I was bored of miner tweaking this week.)

((p.p.s - no, GPU for hashing and CPU for multiply would be horrible.  You'll just saturate your PCIe bandwidth.))


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wzsaou
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August 03, 2014, 01:45:27 AM
 #885

New Mining Pool  1% Fees!

http://pool.minichain.info pays out once a day proportional to the number of shares (share difficulty = 512)
Also check out the blockexplorer at http://minichain.info It might be down sporadically over the next few days if I'm working on it more

If I get enough interest, I'll release the source code for both

That's nice. But could you change the payout to every hour or at least 3, 4hours. Once per day just taking too long for every miners.

I'll change it to 4 hours

The use of Windows Miner, CPU why not working at full speed?
catia
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August 03, 2014, 02:01:59 AM
 #886

I'm rather a fan of the PoW, seeing as how i wrote it and all. I think nobody has really sat down to think about how hard that "silly multiplication" is for GPU's and ASIC, and there is no evidence that a GPU miner has been created. I'm working on one in spare time to prove how much it will suck. I mean it will work, but won't be massively faster than CPU. Especially if someone sits down to optimize CPU for AVX. The ultimate combination is probably GPU for hashing and CPU for multiply. Might get somewhere doing that but it's a whole new kind of rig to have that kind of balance.

Lemme give you some numbers:

750ti = 160 32x32 bit multipliers @ 1gz = 160B 32bit per second
4770k = 16 64x64 bit multiplication per clock @ 3.6ghz = 57.6B 64bit muls ~= 330.4B 32bit per second

Theres no fighting that. It is raw ALU power.

You're underestimating the fraction of time spent in the hashes vs the multiply.  Less than 12% of the current execution time is in gmp bignum functions with your current code, with 88% in hashing (22% of that in one hash function -- easy target for optimization, which I'm sure wolf or someone else has already done).  The one saving grace there is that gmp is avx2 optimized on my platform already, and none of your hashes are yet.  But that leaves things at still < 30% of time in bignum once everything's on an equal optimization footing.  And it's likely that there's some low-hanging optimization possible, given that 6.7% of the time is spent in __gmpz_export and that there's no effort taken to avoid unnecessary allocation and deallocation of the mpzs.  Hint:  there are faster ways to get the data out of gmp if you don't care about portability.

Taking that all together, I'd guess that at most 15-20% of the eventual optimized runtime will be in the multiplication.  The GPUs will win.  You've created a *great* target for Claymore, though, with his pre-built library of bignum routines from writing the XPM miner. Smiley

(And to those reading this, no, I don't have an optimized miner - I ran it through a profiler to see what it was, but decided I was bored of miner tweaking this week.)

((p.p.s - no, GPU for hashing and CPU for multiply would be horrible.  You'll just saturate your PCIe bandwidth.))



I don't disagree with any of this in principle. There is just no thorough analysis of exactly how it will end up on GPU. Sure maybe multiplication is 20% on CPU but that means what 60-80% on GPU? we know it will slow down there and a lot of it depends on how things are implemented. XPM has lamo big integer, the things almost always can be fit in registers. These are too large. And i think 2048bit * 32*256 is way too large for local memory. So where CPU is doing some fast 64bit multiplies in registers and has that nice data cache, GPU is executing handful of operations and having to hit global memory to do the same work. Implementing on GPU is quite difficult if you do it the GMP way which is karatsuba i believe.

Keep in mind X11 is not so much faster on GPU. Maybe 3x. Throw a wrench into the works that takes 60% of time and I think that metric will suffer. I can't guarantee it. Maybe not so much, maybe a little. Not even sure it matters. It's just a PoW. People will work it with whatever they have.



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August 03, 2014, 02:19:12 AM
 #887

New Mining Pool  1% Fees!

http://pool.minichain.info pays out once a day proportional to the number of shares (share difficulty = 512)
Also check out the blockexplorer at http://minichain.info It might be down sporadically over the next few days if I'm working on it more

If I get enough interest, I'll release the source code for both

That's nice. But could you change the payout to every hour or at least 3, 4hours. Once per day just taking too long for every miners.

I'll change it to 4 hours

The use of Windows Miner, CPU why not working at full speed?

Make sure you use --threads 16 or set it to whatever gives you the best result.  Generally, you want to set the threads to be the number of CPU's you have

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djslick
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August 03, 2014, 02:20:23 AM
 #888

hey i just saw this:

https://twitter.com/CoinJesus/status/495755688006938624

i just wish the price was lower, i'd grab some

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dga
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August 03, 2014, 02:28:36 AM
 #889


I don't disagree with any of this in principle. There is just no thorough analysis of exactly how it will end up on GPU. Sure maybe multiplication is 20% on CPU but that means what 60-80% on GPU? we know it will slow down there and a lot of it depends on how things are implemented. XPM has lamo big integer, the things almost always can be fit in registers. These are too large. And i think 2048bit * 32*256 is way too large for local memory. So where CPU is doing some fast 64bit multiplies in registers and has that nice data cache, GPU is executing handful of operations and having to hit global memory to do the same work. Implementing on GPU is quite difficult if you do it the GMP way which is karatsuba i believe.

Keep in mind X11 is not so much faster on GPU. Maybe 3x. Throw a wrench into the works that takes 60% of time and I think that metric will suffer. I can't guarantee it. Maybe not so much, maybe a little. Not even sure it matters. It's just a PoW. People will work it with whatever they have.


X11 nvidia is 6x cpu, just to keep the record straight, though it's always possible that some of C&C's groestl optimizations could be applied to avx2 as well.  That's not the magic of nvidia, it's good programming and optimization.

There's no way a good implementation of this would hit global in a non-streaming way -- such a design would be silly and doing it wrong.  Yes, it might be optimal to stream all of the result hashes to memory, read them back in a different kernel with fewer threads per block, do the 2048 bit math, and then stuff them back into global for the final sha256, but two full streams of the hashes is well within the bandwidth capacity of the GPU for the speed of hashing and math we're talking about.

You could imagine some fun ways of parallelizing it, given that the multiplication is commutative - that sha256 and haval would combine nicely in one big parallel multiply across nonces to produce a 512 bit next operand.  Fun thought experiment. :-)

GPU would likely just use schoolbook.  GMP's multiplication algorithm used depends a little on the bit sizes involved, but it's probably Toom-Cook at these sizes.  (It's a little tricky because you know that one of the operands is always <= 512 bits, and I don't know how gmp optimizes that case.)  Karatsuba and TC are tricky, but they're not magic, just code.

(I have no philosophical or financial horse in this race -- I think the excessive pursuit of CPU-only coins is silly, and I do agree with you that the large bit size is a deterrent;  I haven't seen, e.g., any public gpu miners for riecoin, and the bit size is one of the big reasons.  But if the coin goes moonward, it'll be done, and I think it'll put the CPUs out to pasture.)

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August 03, 2014, 02:48:53 AM
 #890

New Mining Pool  1% Fees!

http://pool.minichain.info pays out once a day proportional to the number of shares (share difficulty = 512)
Also check out the blockexplorer at http://minichain.info It might be down sporadically over the next few days if I'm working on it more

If I get enough interest, I'll release the source code for both

That's nice. But could you change the payout to every hour or at least 3, 4hours. Once per day just taking too long for every miners.

I'll change it to 4 hours

The use of Windows Miner, CPU why not working at full speed?

Make sure you use --threads 16 or set it to whatever gives you the best result.  Generally, you want to set the threads to be the number of CPU's you have

Set the --threads MAX, but CPU use rate was only 10%
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https://monero.stackexchange.com/a/1203


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August 03, 2014, 03:08:25 AM
 #891

coinmarketcap.com added XCN



Too soon?

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August 03, 2014, 03:11:14 AM
 #892

How many coins are being mined per day? And this amount will be half in ten years correct?
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August 03, 2014, 03:12:24 AM
 #893

hey i just saw this:

https://twitter.com/CoinJesus/status/495755688006938624

i just wish the price was lower, i'd grab some

Just be patient. It will be.

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August 03, 2014, 03:13:14 AM
 #894

How many coins are being mined per day? And this amount will be half in ten years correct?

1440 blocks per day, about 243 coins per block, and yes 10 years.
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August 03, 2014, 03:36:37 AM
 #895

coinmarketcap.com added XCN



Too soon?

Please.  No hoax photographs.  Thank you.

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August 03, 2014, 04:38:23 AM
 #896

Don't have xubuntu, but on ubuntu:

mkdir ~/.cryptonite

cat > ~/.cryptonite/cryptonite.conf << EOF
#----
rpcuser=rpcuser
rpcpassword=rpcpw
EOF

./cryptonite-qt

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August 03, 2014, 05:01:46 AM
 #897

Do you have all of this stuff?

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin
sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get install libboost-all-dev libdb4.8-dev libdb4.8++-dev libminiupnpc-dev libqt4-dev libprotobuf-dev protobuf-compiler libgmp-dev
apt-get install git ntp make g++ gcc autoconf cpp ngrep iftop sysstat

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August 03, 2014, 05:56:30 AM
 #898

Cpuminer on xcn.1gh.com updated now, 40%+ speedup.

Tried to compile the updated cpuminer. I encounter error:

Making all in m7
make[2]: Entering directory `/root/cpuminer-cryptonite/m7'
make[2]: *** No rule to make target `haval.cpp', needed by `haval.o'.  Stop.
make[2]: Leaving directory `/root/cpuminer-cryptonite/m7'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/root/cpuminer-cryptonite'
make: *** [all] Error 2


What is the fix?

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wenjiannin
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NO zuo NO die why you try


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August 03, 2014, 06:06:47 AM
 #899

is solo>xcn.pool.com  by 120 E3V3 erevy 440K/H?HuhHuh?

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August 03, 2014, 07:11:01 AM
 #900

Cpuminer on xcn.1gh.com updated now, 40%+ speedup.

Tried to compile the updated cpuminer. I encounter error:

Making all in m7
make[2]: Entering directory `/root/cpuminer-cryptonite/m7'
make[2]: *** No rule to make target `haval.cpp', needed by `haval.o'.  Stop.
make[2]: Leaving directory `/root/cpuminer-cryptonite/m7'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/root/cpuminer-cryptonite'
make: *** [all] Error 2


What is the fix?

A dependency missing?
What do you get after ./autogen.sh and what after ./configure?
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