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Author Topic: #1 RATINGS of BITCOIN SPORTSBOOKS : poster book discussion  (Read 222394 times)
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June 04, 2016, 03:21:55 PM
 #2041

Waylon James

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My Gawd.

Just shut the fuck up, Direct Bet. You are embarrassing yourself. Go jack off on Skype or do something else that might help keep your dignity.

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June 04, 2016, 04:36:56 PM
 #2042

i can send emails from that address only cloudbet sees a scrambled address so they have started ignoring me.  How is it that i have all the emails they sent me if it is not my email address?  How hard is this to understand?  i hate to just give up here. 
i am no stranger to being screwed over by offshore bookies.  i lost $1500 when Betislands went down.


Hi FastEddie

I'm looking into this for you. Cheers.

Apologies for the inconvenience and thanks for your patience and understanding.

Cloudbet

Bet graded today.  Thank you. 
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June 04, 2016, 10:09:21 PM
 #2043

DirectBet uses many ghost accounts to shill for DirectBet and bash competitors... DirectBet uses ghost accounts in all polls...

Proof?
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June 04, 2016, 10:18:48 PM
 #2044

directbet, still waiting on you send payment.
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June 05, 2016, 01:34:24 AM
 #2045

directbet, still waiting on you send payment.

hungerstyle - In their thread, Directbet states (I'm numbering the claims, the rest I've copied and pasted):


1) "You will notice the transaction was double spent in the exact same manner he planned to double spend his bet in case it loses.

He deliberately sent it as a big sized transaction with significantly low fees at first, and later double spent it in a transaction with excessive fees, much higher fees than required to ensure the double spend is executed immediately on the next block."




2) "If you look at his posts you will see that for several days he tried to avoid posting the payout address of his bet, because he knew this would be an evidence of his fraudulent activity, and not just towards DirectBet."




3) "When we first confronted him with our findings he did not deny his double spend attempt. Moreover, he agreed not to do it again if we return his original wager. However, when we asked him to sign a formal agreement he refused."



4) "Later on he informed us that he is not the person who sent this bet transfer and that he does not own the payout address used for this bet."



5) "When we asked to get in touch with the person who actually sent this bet transfer and who owns the payout address, he said that this person is "not available". "



I assume Directbet has evidence of all of these claims using emails and pm's in your mutual correspondence.
If so, it seems clear that they have a solid case against you.

Under each numbered quote, can you state what you disagree with if anything, and post any proof of your disagreements if you have any.
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June 05, 2016, 04:12:51 AM
 #2046

gogo - You've been around the block. Players take shots at books all the time playing bad numbers or after games have been started. None of the books confiscate deposits as a punishment. They cancel winnings. DirectBet confiscated a deposit and that should never be done.

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June 05, 2016, 05:33:19 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2016, 06:30:28 AM by Gogo ppp
 #2047

gogo - You've been around the block. Players take shots at books all the time playing bad numbers or after games have been started. None of the books confiscate deposits as a punishment. They cancel winnings. DirectBet confiscated a deposit and that should never be done.

You mention two situations where the book has made an error, or in the case of a "bad number" at least claims to have made an error.
In those situations, a player could legitimately not know the start time or not know the market line (many only use 1 book), and so I have pretty much always sided with the player in those circumstances and generally have felt that the bet and deposit should be paid unless a serious attempt was made to notify the player and the book is also going to refund losing bets that were also made after the game started or losing bets on the other side of the "bad" number (and the book can then 86 the player after they pay him if they don't want to deal with him any longer).


As you may recall, when a new book appears, several times I've posted in this thread pointing out language in their T&C which is questionable, such as "We can confiscate funds if a player is part of a betting syndicate" and other such egregious language (which to me is simply scamming/free rolling on the book's part).
In the case of Anonibet, I persisted on trying to get them to clarify a vague statement that if a player deposits and doesn't bet and then withdraws, they can keep 5% if they wish. Etc.

And in a number of cases, books did then modify their T&C to make them more "player friendly".

So I am or have been opposed to anything that can allow a book to take a shot at a player.




Btc books have a circumstance that is new with bitcoins.

Double spend presents a new way to scam, as in the case which Directbet alleges.

If a person tries to commit credit card fraud or bank fraud with checks, etc., this will ultimately result in criminal charges by the bank or the cc company.


But with btc, a player can takes shots at businesses accepting btc all day long.
Perhaps, as you feel, the correct thing is for the business that catches an attempt at a doublespend to simply state "We caught you. Here's your btc back."

But it seems then the scammer has nothing to lose, and for that matter may as well try again.

If the business instead states "We caught you. We're keeping your funds because you tried to cheat us", this would be a strong incentive for scammers not to mess with them.

I've never thought about this until now, and wasn't even aware of doublespend until now, but these are my initial thoughts on this type of situation. So I'm basically stating that I can see the book's point of view on this issue in a case where it is demonstrable that the doublespender was scamming.
Apparently in this case due to all Directbet has stated, this person has a history of this, he didn't deny it at first and agreed not to do it again, the way the doublespend attempt was made seems to be demonstrable, etc.

In this case, Directbet is willing to return the funds, conditionally. So it appears to me they're making a compromise and their primary goal with this incident is not to steal the btc.


I realize that this rule opens the door for books to take shots at players if there is an accidental doublespend. I don't understand how that happens but if it does occur, it could create potential future conflicts.



What would you do if you were a book and someone tried an obvious doublespend?
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June 05, 2016, 08:03:02 AM
 #2048

gogo - attempted double spend doesn't mean that you tried to double spend. It means that you may have tried to double spend. It may have already shown up on a couple of your bets.

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June 05, 2016, 08:09:52 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2016, 08:40:13 AM by Peeps Place
 #2049

Sometimes attempted double spend show without a person trying to double spend.

That's true, but we have developed extensive knowledge, experience and tools that allow us to tell the difference..........


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June 05, 2016, 08:19:08 AM
 #2050

This is a self moderated thread. Books will be censored if they post about another book. No posters will be censored unless posts become overly repetitive.

All of DirectBet's posts, as well as posts that quote DirectBet will be deleted. Thread rules state that books must only talk about their own book.

Books should not have to come into this thread to defend themselves from attacks by DirectBet.

DirectBet may post about the individual case at hand but nothing else.

New posters may also have their posts deleted to prevent DirectBet from ghosting.

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June 05, 2016, 08:31:47 AM
 #2051

author=TwitchySeal link=topic=717790.msg15038754#msg15038754 date=1464741285]
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Not all double spend attempts are intentional.  It could happen to anyone.

Many sites require at least one confirmation (or more) to prevent being exploited by double spend attempts.  

I assume DirectBet knows this and chooses not to require 1 confirm in hopes it will attract more players.  

If a site is going to accept 0 confirm deposits they should expect players to try and exploit this.  They should also expect innocent double spends to happen.  There are two ways of handling these situations.

A)Make sure they are never scammed and seize any bets with suspicious double spend attempts.
Result: Scammers will never succeed but inevitable innocent players will not be paid causing damage to DB reputation.

B) Pay out every bet unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a wager was made with the intention of exploiting the house.
Result:  They will end up losing funds to scammers, which will encourage more scammers to scam more, but DB will maintain their exceptional reputation for being trustworthy.

Of course, there could be other ways to prevent these situations (accepting action from 0 confirm deposits from only established players for example)  .  If I were them, that's what I would be focusing on.

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June 05, 2016, 09:10:39 AM
 #2052

gogo - attempted double spend doesn't mean that you tried to double spend. It means that you may have tried to double spend.

We posted evidence that the double spend was made on purpose.

When you send out a transaction with extremely low fees and a few hours later double spend it with extremely high fees, and you then repeat on the same pattern over and over again, that can not possibly be wallet "misconfiguration" or "user error". That's fraud.

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June 05, 2016, 09:16:45 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2016, 08:24:48 PM by robinH
 #2053

directbet.eu would have rejected the bet anyway or should have, double spend attempt or not. I've been placing small bets there in the past few hours and the one thing that struck me as very odd is the fact that their maximum bets for any selection/event is anything between 1btc and 4 btc.

Take the final match today between Djokovic and Murray... We are talking about the finals here, of the same tournament (French Open) the max bet permitted (for me at least) - Djokovic @ 1.26 is 3.782btc , and 1btc for Murray @ 3.05. I checked out their lines for every selection/sport and the maximum bet allowed is 4btc.

My question to directbet.eu is what happens when a bettor sends you an amount in excess of your maximum bet? Do you reject the bet automatically, or deduct the maximum permitted then refund the rest? Double spend attempt or not, would you have honoured the bet if it won, considering the stake involved is approximately 10 times  the size of your maximum bet?

It smacks of hypocrisy and serious double standards that directbet.eu would seize an amount/bet size that they would never have accepted or honoured in the first place. But they are happy to confisticate the said amount. This is clear scammy behaviour from directbet.eu.

I wonder why hungerstyle placed a bet size that would not have being accepted anyway. And I have pm'ed him to ask. However from my previous communication with him it is obvious that English is not a language he understands well and communicating is difficult.

Nowhere on directbet.eu bet confirmation page does it state clearly that bet stakes can be confisticated for whatever reason. This clause is nicely tucked away/hidden somewhere in their terms and conditions.  How many of us read these terms and conditions before betting? It takes away all the fun right? Then imagine how  difficult it would ve been for someone that  barely understands English.  Could this also be the reason why he sent more than the maximum bet permitted? 10 times more?

Was this a genuine double  spend attempt? I don't know and I have no idea. I am not a blockchain expert. But more knowledgeable members like TwitchySeal and RHaver have demonstrated that it may not be. The only ones that are absolutely sure are directbet. And they are the only ones profiting from it.

The problem with bitcoin sportbooks and casinos is they are unregulated. This is the wild west of online gambling. Books disappearing with deposits. Some needing days to grade bets (cloudbet) , not honouring bonuses (Jetwin), citing outrageous reasons + many other examples. It is left to us the community to police them. The very least we can do is shoot straight and be honest at all times. After all tomorrow it could be you or me on the receiving end.

directbet.eu should do the right thing and refund the stake back to hungerstyle. Think of how much goodwill this would buy you. Until then a mod should red trust them as a warning to others
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June 05, 2016, 09:34:05 AM
Last edit: June 05, 2016, 10:06:35 AM by DirectBet
 #2054

My question to directbet.eu is what happens when a bettor sends you an amount in excess of your maximum bet?

If your bet size is over the limit, your bet will be rejected and refunded instantly and automatically.

In this case the bet was within the limits. For the higher profile events the max bet size is bigger.

For example, if you want to bet on Djokovic now, the max bet size is 60 BTC, you can see it here :

N Djokovic v A Murray

In our FAQ we explain in more details about the max bet size :

https://directbet.eu/FAQ.cshtml#MaxBet

Was this a genuine double  spend attempt? I don't know and I have no idea. I am not a blockchain expert. But more knowledgeable members like TwitchySeal and RHaver have demonstrated that it may not be.

RHaver and TwitchySeal remarks were made while they did not have all the information and we were unable to contribute since the investigation was still in progress.

Look at the additional evidence that we posted above. When you send out a transaction with extremely low fees and a few hours later double spend it with extremely high fees, and you then repeat on the same pattern over and over again, that can not possibly be wallet "misconfiguration" or "user error". That's fraud.

directbet.eu should do the right thing and refund the stake back to hungerstyle.

Since day 1 we informed hungerstyle that we are willing to return the coins as a goodwill gesture provided that he signs an agreement that will assure us that he will not attempt to defraud us again.

hungerstyle agreed he will not do it again. We wanted to make a formal agreement and he provided us with his contact information for that.

We suspected the contact information that he provided was faked, so we asked him to prove it, but he refused.

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June 05, 2016, 10:24:06 AM
 #2055

My question to directbet.eu is what happens when a bettor sends you an amount in excess of your maximum bet?

If your bet size is over the limit, your bet will be rejected and refunded instantly and automatically.

In this case the bet was within the limits. For the higher profile events the max bet size is bigger.

For example, if you want to bet on Djokovic now, the max bet size is 60 BTC, you can see it here :

N Djokovic v A Murray

In our FAQ we explain in more details about the max bet size :

https://directbet.eu/FAQ.cshtml#MaxBet

Was this a genuine double  spend attempt? I don't know and I have no idea. I am not a blockchain expert. But more knowledgeable members like TwitchySeal and RHaver have demonstrated that it may not be.

RHaver and TwitchySeal remarks were made while they did not have all the information and we were unable to contribute since the investigation was still in progress.

Look at the additional evidence that we posted above. When you send out a transaction with extremely low fees and a few hours later double spend it with extremely high fees, and you then repeat on the same pattern over and over again, that can not possibly be wallet "misconfiguration" or "user error". That's fraud.

directbet.eu should do the right thing and refund the stake back to hungerstyle.

Since day 1 we informed hungerstyle that we are willing to return the coins as a goodwill gesture provided that he signs an agreement that will assure us that he will not attempt to defraud us again.

hungerstyle agreed he will not do it again. We wanted to make a formal agreement and he provided us with his contact information for that.

We suspected the contact information that he provided was faked, so we asked him to prove it, but he refused.

Lol Lol  Lol!!!!  Grin

Now I am convinced more than ever that you are a corrupt theiving book. Those amounts were adjusted a few minutes ago for the sake of this argument/thread. Anybody with brains between their ears can see through you. How come you have 60 btc on Djokovic but only 7 btc on Murray.  How come all of a sudden you have 60btc available on the one selection I quoted in my previous post? How come every other line still has low max bets and only this 1 selection accepts 60 btc? Do the right thing directbet.eu. people see through your underhand tactics

And please don't speak for TwitchySeal and RHaver,  they are yet to say otherwise.  The only ones adamant it is a double spend is you.the only ones benefiting here is you.
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June 05, 2016, 10:57:37 AM
 #2056

How come you have 60 btc on Djokovic but only 7 btc on Murray.

We have not made any manual adjustment to the max bet size, it's completely automatic.

The max bet size fluctuates based on various factors and it usually increases as we approach the event start time.

The reason why the max bet size on Murray is lower is because the odds are higher. The max bet size is determined based on how much you can net profit from the bet up to a maximum of 17.75 BTC. Currently the Match Odds bet on Djokovic and Murray is on the maximum, allowing a net profit of 17.75 BTC (this results in a max bet size of approx. 60 BTC for Djokovic and 7.4 BTC for Murray).

If you are still unconvinced you can check on future high profile events and see that it will be the same. The max bet size increases as we approach the event start time up to a maximum net profit of 17.75 BTC per bet.

How come every other line still has low max bets and only this 1 selection accepts 60 btc?

The max bet size on Match Odds is usually much bigger than other types of bets.

DirectBet is the most popular and trusted Crypto Currency Sportsbook.

We pay out hundreds of Bitcoins in winnings every day and have been voted the # 1 Sportsbook of the year by Bitcointalk members for two years in a row.

https://directbet.eu/

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June 05, 2016, 11:20:09 AM
 #2057

How come you have 60 btc on Djokovic but only 7 btc on Murray.

We have not made any manual adjustment to the max bet size, it's completely automatic.

The max bet size fluctuates based on various factors and it usually increases as we approach the event start time.

The reason why the max bet size on Murray is lower is because the odds are higher. The max bet size is determined based on how much you can net profit from the bet up to a maximum of 17.75 BTC. Currently the Match Odds bet on Djokovic and Murray is on the maximum, allowing a net profit of 17.75 BTC (this results in a max bet size of approx. 60 BTC for Djokovic and 7.4 BTC for Murray).

If you are still unconvinced you can check on future high profile events and see that it will be the same. The max bet size increases as we approach the event start time up to a maximum net profit of 17.75 BTC per bet.

How come every other line still has low max bets and only this 1 selection accepts 60 btc?

The max bet size on Match Odds is usually much bigger than other types of bets.

DirectBet is the most popular and trusted Crypto Currency Sportsbook.

We pay out hundreds of Bitcoins in winnings every day and have been voted the # 1 Sportsbook of the year by Bitcointalk members for two years in a row.

https://directbet.eu/

Spare me the lecture directbet.eu, as discussed in my pms with you, Ive been in this business for many years.That is not how to make a book, not with those figures you've quoted (topic for another day folks). You might fool the majority here, but not me and not everyone.
 
But to risk your business and brand the way you have just now smacks of desperation and shows how irresponsible you are. I hope you have the funds for payouts when Djokovic eventually wins lol! Oh yeah I forgot. You've got hungers 38 btc to ease the pain.

Mods, I implore you to look into this case. This was a forum that battered quickseller for self escrowing, even though he did not steal a penny (not that I support self escrowing). But it was done on moral grounds. This same forum red trusted members that asked for loans without collateral. So how come you all sit silently and watch directbet.eu walk all over hungerstyle? Is it because he cannot express himself properly? Maybe because he is a newbie? Or is directbet.eu being protected by the powers that be? Fair is fair, the same rules should apply to everyone regardless of rank or stature.

Directbet.eu should be negative trusted until this issue with hungerstyle is sorted.  Someone higher up should step in and take a proper look into this case... With directbet.eu's co -operation off course.

 Directbet.eu cannot and should not be both plaintiff,  judge and jury in a case that it is involved in. This case should be arbitrated by a neutral party and until then directbet.eu should send the 38btc to a trusted escrow on this forum until it is proven beyond doubt that hungerstyle is a scammer and hacker and tried to dupe directbet.eu.



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June 05, 2016, 11:40:25 AM
 #2058

Hi ,

I am having an issue with cloudbet.com withdrawals.

I have 5 pending withdrawals for more than an hour , usually I got the withdrawals instant.

Anyone can help me?

Thanks

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June 05, 2016, 11:52:38 AM
 #2059

and the one thing that struck me as very odd is the fact that their maximum bets for any selection/event is anything between 1btc and 4 btc.

We are booking lots of big bets on a daily basis.

robinH, since you still seem unconvinced here I found for you an example of a 64 BTC winning Tennis bet that was posted on our thread :

https://directbet.eu/BetStatus.cshtml?BetID=1Ef6pGXuXpyipwCx7DUxvTrQExYwziHbU4

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June 05, 2016, 12:02:20 PM
 #2060

Quote
DirectBet is the most popular and trusted Crypto Currency Sportsbook.

We pay out hundreds of Bitcoins in winnings every day and have been voted the # 1 Sportsbook of the year by Bitcointalk members for two years in a row.

https://directbet.eu/

In case of volume, Saturday is usually “the biggest day” of the week for bookies. Show us some proof that you have transacted even ONE hundred BTC yesterday or keep your “most popular and trusted Crypto Currency Sportsbook” within your SCAMy thread for non-educated micro-players and micro free-prize lovers from India, Philippines and Iran.

And of course, directbet should be A+ in the ratings - they just steal approx. 20K USD, but that’s just such a little thing.


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