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Author Topic: Argentina defaults  (Read 1785 times)
Cranky4u
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July 30, 2014, 11:22:53 PM
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In breaking news, a US hedge fund has refused a deal with the Argentina Government thereby forcing them into a debt default. Consequences are that a handful of businessmen are forcing  several million people into a deeper recession.

I smell a chance for BTC to push ahead in a similar manner as to Cyprus.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/argentina-in-selective-default-as-talks-fail-to-reach-a-resolution/story-e6frfm30-1227008204606

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July 31, 2014, 12:33:50 AM
 #2

In breaking news, a US hedge fund has refused a deal with the Argentina Government thereby forcing them into a debt default. Consequences are that a handful of businessmen are forcing  several million people into a deeper recession.

I smell a chance for BTC to push ahead in a similar manner as to Cyprus.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/argentina-in-selective-default-as-talks-fail-to-reach-a-resolution/story-e6frfm30-1227008204606

A handful of authoritarian politicians in Argentina are forcing several million people into a deeper recession.

FTFY.  :-)

Hopefully it helps bitcoin, but there is a thread somewhere on here talking about the difficulty getting bitcoins in Argentina.
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July 31, 2014, 12:34:19 AM
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In breaking news, a US hedge fund has refused a deal with the Argentina Government thereby forcing them into a debt default. Consequences are that a handful of businessmen are forcing  several million people into a deeper recession.

I smell a chance for BTC to push ahead in a similar manner as to Cyprus.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/argentina-in-selective-default-as-talks-fail-to-reach-a-resolution/story-e6frfm30-1227008204606

As if Argentina had nothing to do with it.

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July 31, 2014, 04:12:49 AM
 #4

...

Argentina has always been a place that fleeces foreigners, and for the past 100 years it has fleeced it own citizens.  100 years ago Argentina was about as rich (GDP / capita) as the USA or France...

An above poster is right about tough exchange controls.  A dollar brings (numbers approximate) some 13 pesos vs. the official rate of about eight.  Think about that, Americans.  Bring enough US dollars with you, change them right (quietly), and you pay for your trip.  Cheap great steaks and wine too.

A BTC guy I know goes Argentina somewhat regularly, including to meet-ups there.  He told me that among the technology-aware that BTC is growing strongly and fetches a HUGE premium vs. here.  Bring that flash drive, your laptop or your mobile phone w/ BTC...!  And Happy Trails!

 Cool
theonewhowaskazu
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July 31, 2014, 04:31:20 AM
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Worst case scenario, Argentina actually pays everyone everything they need to pay, lol. Then Argentina's foreign reserves become totally shot and the currency inflates to 0.

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July 31, 2014, 04:58:02 AM
 #6

When hard working Argentinians once again have their savings confiscated (outright theft or through hyperinflation) they'll see the merit in bitcoin and its unrivaled ability to transfer wealth across borders regardless of laws and regulations.

Bitcoin is highly volatile and risky as an investment, but right now the chances of the average Argentinian losing their life savings is looking pretty certain.  Pity, it's almost ironic in a country named after silver.
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July 31, 2014, 05:49:50 AM
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Quote
A BTC guy I know goes Argentina somewhat regularly, including to meet-ups there.  He told me that among the technology-aware that BTC is growing strongly and fetches a HUGE premium vs. here.  Bring that flash drive, your laptop or your mobile phone w/ BTC...!  And Happy Trails!

Yeah, but who wants to sell their BTC for Argentinian pesos?
I guess it depends on the spread, but would you trade  your BTC for worthless paper?
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July 31, 2014, 05:54:13 AM
 #8

...

Argentina has always been a place that fleeces foreigners, and for the past 100 years it has fleeced it own citizens.  100 years ago Argentina was about as rich (GDP / capita) as the USA or France...

An above poster is right about tough exchange controls.  A dollar brings (numbers approximate) some 13 pesos vs. the official rate of about eight.  Think about that, Americans.  Bring enough US dollars with you, change them right (quietly), and you pay for your trip.  Cheap great steaks and wine too.

A BTC guy I know goes Argentina somewhat regularly, including to meet-ups there.  He told me that among the technology-aware that BTC is growing strongly and fetches a HUGE premium vs. here.  Bring that flash drive, your laptop or your mobile phone w/ BTC...!  And Happy Trails!

 Cool

I've also read about the premium on Bitcoins in Argentina on the forum but had no idea someone could make such profit.  That is a really interesting idea to travel and use coins to pay for your trip, thanks for the tip!  How ironic that Argentina used to fleece foreigners and now finds itself in the same position.  I hope this is good for bitcoin and Argentinians of lesser means can acquire btc without being fleeced because they will be under the most pressure.
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July 31, 2014, 06:57:13 AM
 #9

...

Argentina has always been a place that fleeces foreigners, and for the past 100 years it has fleeced it own citizens.  100 years ago Argentina was about as rich (GDP / capita) as the USA or France...

An above poster is right about tough exchange controls.  A dollar brings (numbers approximate) some 13 pesos vs. the official rate of about eight.  Think about that, Americans.  Bring enough US dollars with you, change them right (quietly), and you pay for your trip.  Cheap great steaks and wine too.

A BTC guy I know goes Argentina somewhat regularly, including to meet-ups there.  He told me that among the technology-aware that BTC is growing strongly and fetches a HUGE premium vs. here.  Bring that flash drive, your laptop or your mobile phone w/ BTC...!  And Happy Trails!

 Cool

I've also read about the premium on Bitcoins in Argentina on the forum but had no idea someone could make such profit.  That is a really interesting idea to travel and use coins to pay for your trip, thanks for the tip!  How ironic that Argentina used to fleece foreigners and now finds itself in the same position.  I hope this is good for bitcoin and Argentinians of lesser means can acquire btc without being fleeced because they will be under the most pressure.

How easy is it to bring the money out?

virtfund
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July 31, 2014, 07:31:05 AM
 #10

Well this is what happens when people give into greed.
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July 31, 2014, 08:35:56 AM
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And no one here mentioned the true culprit in the Argentinian disaster of the recent years, that is the IMF and the role it played in the default of this country. The IMF in Argentina turned from "being a lender for development to a creditor demanding privileges" (as per Argentina's president Kirchner). And obviously not only there, now we see Ukraine treading the same path.
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July 31, 2014, 10:50:08 AM
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And no one here mentioned the true culprit in the Argentinian disaster of the recent years, that is the IMF and the role it played in the default of this country. The IMF in Argentina turned from "being a lender for development to a creditor demanding privileges" (as per Argentina's president Kirchner). And obviously not only there, now we see Ukraine treading the same path.

I had forgotten that the IMF showed up with tanks, guns, biological weapons and nuclear weapons that forced the Argentinian government to borrow money (repeatedly), agree to having disputes litigated in US courts, pretty high interest rates and then try to avoid doing what they agreed when paying it back.  Face it, after the default ~13 years ago, no sane person would lend them money without specific guarantees (and ditto before the 13 years ago default, they wanted specific guarantees then too).  Argentina keeps making agreements and then failing to live up to them.  Each time the requirements get tougher - frankly though I am surprised anyone would loan them any money at all.

I am no fan of the IMF and its policies, most are stupid and just encourage the same bad behavior that leads to the crises in the first place, but blaming the IMF for Argentina's default is like blaming the drug manufacturer for your drug problem.  Argentina's government has been profligate for many decades, each time getting worse, trying to live at someone else's expense. Until they realize they can't live beyond their means, this will keep happening.  (And the same thing is happening all over: Greece, US, Portugal, Italy, Spain, France, many other places.  Everyone thinks they can borrow, borrow, and borrow and never have to repay it because money just grows on trees.)

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July 31, 2014, 12:50:12 PM
 #13

I am no fan of the IMF and its policies, most are stupid and just encourage the same bad behavior that leads to the crises in the first place, but blaming the IMF for Argentina's default is like blaming the drug manufacturer for your drug problem.  Argentina's government has been profligate for many decades, each time getting worse, trying to live at someone else's expense. Until they realize they can't live beyond their means, this will keep happening.  (And the same thing is happening all over: Greece, US, Portugal, Italy, Spain, France, many other places.  Everyone thinks they can borrow, borrow, and borrow and never have to repay it because money just grows on trees.)

I couldn't have said it better myself. Excessive spending leads to default. But people still vote for politicians that promise things that they can't afford.

So you may conclude: Most people are either dumb or simply don't give a sh*t about the future.

ya.ya.yo!
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July 31, 2014, 01:41:47 PM
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I am no fan of the IMF and its policies, most are stupid and just encourage the same bad behavior that leads to the crises in the first place, but blaming the IMF for Argentina's default is like blaming the drug manufacturer for your drug problem.  Argentina's government has been profligate for many decades, each time getting worse, trying to live at someone else's expense. Until they realize they can't live beyond their means, this will keep happening.  (And the same thing is happening all over: Greece, US, Portugal, Italy, Spain, France, many other places.  Everyone thinks they can borrow, borrow, and borrow and never have to repay it because money just grows on trees.)

I couldn't have said it better myself. Excessive spending leads to default. But people still vote for politicians that promise things that they can't afford.

So you may conclude: Most people are either dumb or simply don't give a sh*t about the future.

ya.ya.yo!

The problem is all the resources in the country are privatized while all outstanding debt have to be paid back by the taxpayers.

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devphp
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July 31, 2014, 02:42:03 PM
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Excessive spending leads to default. But people still vote for politicians that promise things that they can't afford.

Perfect definition of what US is doing, but hey, they print the currency they owe everyone debt in, so that doesn't count Smiley
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July 31, 2014, 02:50:49 PM
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Excessive spending leads to default. But people still vote for politicians that promise things that they can't afford.

Perfect definition of what US is doing, but hey, they print the currency they owe everyone debt in, so that doesn't count Smiley

And the system would work even better, if there are countries like Argentina which can be safely looted by the IMF and the likes whenever there is an opportunity (by the way, I don't excuse or defend Argentina here).
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August 01, 2014, 01:03:33 AM
 #17

Excessive spending leads to default. But people still vote for politicians that promise things that they can't afford.

Perfect definition of what US is doing, but hey, they print the currency they owe everyone debt in, so that doesn't count Smiley

And the system would work even better, if there are countries like Argentina which can be safely looted by the IMF and the likes whenever there is an opportunity (by the way, I don't excuse or defend Argentina here).
The IMF really does not loot developing countries. They really do quite the opposite. They lend to countries that cannot otherwise borrow are very attractive rates and will often forgive debt that really should not be forgiven.

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August 02, 2014, 03:36:40 AM
 #18

...

Argentina has always been a place that fleeces foreigners, and for the past 100 years it has fleeced it own citizens.  100 years ago Argentina was about as rich (GDP / capita) as the USA or France...

An above poster is right about tough exchange controls.  A dollar brings (numbers approximate) some 13 pesos vs. the official rate of about eight.  Think about that, Americans.  Bring enough US dollars with you, change them right (quietly), and you pay for your trip.  Cheap great steaks and wine too.

A BTC guy I know goes Argentina somewhat regularly, including to meet-ups there.  He told me that among the technology-aware that BTC is growing strongly and fetches a HUGE premium vs. here.  Bring that flash drive, your laptop or your mobile phone w/ BTC...!  And Happy Trails!

 Cool

I've also read about the premium on Bitcoins in Argentina on the forum but had no idea someone could make such profit.  That is a really interesting idea to travel and use coins to pay for your trip, thanks for the tip!  How ironic that Argentina used to fleece foreigners and now finds itself in the same position.  I hope this is good for bitcoin and Argentinians of lesser means can acquire btc without being fleeced because they will be under the most pressure.

How easy is it to bring the money out?


That is a very good question and I'd like to know myself. 
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August 02, 2014, 05:22:15 AM
 #19

In breaking news, a US hedge fund has refused a deal with the Argentina Government thereby forcing them into a debt default. Consequences are that a handful of businessmen are forcing  several million people into a deeper recession.

I smell a chance for BTC to push ahead in a similar manner as to Cyprus.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/argentina-in-selective-default-as-talks-fail-to-reach-a-resolution/story-e6frfm30-1227008204606

What is Argentina's credit rating? Anyone know how this will afftect their credit? I mean, its obvious it cant be good, but I'm just curious how bad it can get.
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August 02, 2014, 10:09:35 AM
 #20

Excessive spending leads to default. But people still vote for politicians that promise things that they can't afford.

Perfect definition of what US is doing, but hey, they print the currency they owe everyone debt in, so that doesn't count Smiley

And the system would work even better, if there are countries like Argentina which can be safely looted by the IMF and the likes whenever there is an opportunity (by the way, I don't excuse or defend Argentina here).
The IMF really does not loot developing countries. They really do quite the opposite. They lend to countries that cannot otherwise borrow are very attractive rates and will often forgive debt that really should not be forgiven.

There are behind the scene deal which let international companies getting the country resources at huge discount.
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