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arklan
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August 02, 2014, 04:18:41 PM
 #21

while i agree the financial system is close to collapse, i highly doubt it will happen overnight. no repeat of the great depression. more like slowly rising prices and unemployment as people get laid off and jobs get harder to find.
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August 02, 2014, 06:25:57 PM
 #22

It's a nice thought, but economically speaking, even if massively adopted, BTC couldn't save a country from bankruptcy. A currency that they cannot control wouldn't become the primary currency of a failing economy

Bitcoin will not save countries.

It will save people.

Wow! I think you're a bit optimistic. I'd say BTC can help, but some people won't understand how BTC can help them, or they might not want to be helped.

If you're looking for a trading/lending place,
better avoid Poloniex, as it socializes losses.
Learn more about it on this topic.
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August 02, 2014, 06:31:33 PM
 #23

Why isn't USA on the list?

Because US debt is denominated in USD. Can always print more to pay back the creditors.
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August 02, 2014, 07:36:10 PM
 #24

It's a nice thought, but economically speaking, even if massively adopted, BTC couldn't save a country from bankruptcy. A currency that they cannot control wouldn't become the primary currency of a failing economy
A currency that's actually useable & trusted by the people is better than the debasement of banks & greed of government officials.

I agree that its better, but unless there is some massive revolution with a government overhaul, they will still be in charge
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August 03, 2014, 05:56:14 AM
 #25


It was interesting watching what Argentina did to the markets in one day.  I think we are nearing a interesting time where new superpowers will step forward and maybe even a transition from the petro dollar. But then again we could keep slugging away the same way we always have.
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August 03, 2014, 06:08:26 AM
 #26

When the next debt crisis hits it is gonna be a masterpiece!  Blah Blah Blah.. wait and see
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August 03, 2014, 06:28:39 AM
 #27

I disagree.  The Government isn't the Borg Queen, it's a collection of individuals & agencies who are motivated by their individual goals and wishes.  The Federal Reserve for instance is distinct from the other arms of the government.

Bitcoin can be used as a national currency, no reason why it couldn't.  Governments can collect their revenue from taxation and then spend the funds accordingly.



There ain't no Revolution like a NEMolution.  The only solution is Bitcoin's dissolution! NEM!
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August 03, 2014, 07:16:11 AM
 #28

I disagree.  The Government isn't the Borg Queen, it's a collection of individuals & agencies who are motivated by their individual goals and wishes.  The Federal Reserve for instance is distinct from the other arms of the government.

Bitcoin can be used as a national currency, no reason why it couldn't.  Governments can collect their revenue from taxation and then spend the funds accordingly.




Bitcoin will never be used as the USA National currency  as someone will want/need to control ...either Banks or Govt. but would probably co exist with a new National crypto currency.

The USA ( and a few others) Govt did not used to be the Borg Queen  a long time ago..but now it is. Govt is motivated by individual ( personal ..get rich or re-elected) goals in the 1st instance and good work in the second intance ( based on the   If I'm not elected ( which needs financing and money in MY bank) I cant do any good..doctrine)


While the Fed is outwardly private owned..the influence Govt has is in fact strong, if not effectively absolute..they will threaten to change the system and kick the bankers out if ever a major request to them is denied...Congress actually has power to do that if ever they want to...It is just convenient for Govt. to have a scape goat to blame if things go seriously wrong

a balanced view is here ( without the stated recognition that Govt has them over a barrel IF ever they want to remove their power)

http://www.monetary.org/is-the-federal-reserve-system-a-governmental-or-a-privately-controlled-organization/2008/02

Another disturbing thing about the British news report is its reflection of the naive belief that more regulation means a safer, less risky financial system and economy. Big Government here and in Europe has perpetrated the astonishing myth that the recent financial crisis was caused by reckless and greedy private-sector bankers. No wonder the public howls for bankers’ heads. The real villains here were governments, particularly central banks.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2013/07/24/big-government-and-central-banks-the-real-criminals/

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August 03, 2014, 07:43:41 AM
 #29

When the next debt crisis hits it is gonna be a masterpiece!  Blah Blah Blah.. wait and see

I don't think it'll be long before it does hit. Economists are already warning it will be worse than the sub prime crisis.
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August 03, 2014, 11:52:40 PM
 #30

When the next debt crisis hits it is gonna be a masterpiece!  Blah Blah Blah.. wait and see

I don't think it'll be long before it does hit. Economists are already warning it will be worse than the sub prime crisis.

How can it be worse than sub prime?  Sub prime wiped out the construction industry (which hasn't come anywhere close to recovering in terms of jobs).

There's nothing left to wipe out anymore unless it's oil jobs, government jobs or office jobs..

There ain't no Revolution like a NEMolution.  The only solution is Bitcoin's dissolution! NEM!
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August 03, 2014, 11:56:52 PM
 #31

Why isn't USA on the list?

Because they can always inflate and tax until they can pay. The debt is in USD.
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August 04, 2014, 02:42:23 AM
 #32

Who would loan money to a geographical location?  lol 
qwerty555
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August 04, 2014, 06:41:26 AM
 #33

When the next debt crisis hits it is gonna be a masterpiece!  Blah Blah Blah.. wait and see

I don't think it'll be long before it does hit. Economists are already warning it will be worse than the sub prime crisis.

How can it be worse than sub prime?  Sub prime wiped out the construction industry (which hasn't come anywhere close to recovering in terms of jobs).

There's nothing left to wipe out anymore unless it's oil jobs, government jobs or office jobs..

Sub prime cost between 14 - 22 trillion dollars according to which estimate is closer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

http://www.businessinsider.com/fed-study-financial-crisis-costs-incalculable-2013-7


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/financial-crisis-cost-gao_n_2687553.html

The next one  could be worse due to monetary expansion used to "fix" the sub prime..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/02/11/why-the-next-financial-crisis-could-be-worse-than-2008/

What could be worse that that?Huh

Derivatives meltdown...or 20 - 25% of $710 trillion ..even if its only 5% that's twice the size of the last one

Buffet says its coming
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2014/04/30/seking-shelter-warren-buffett-limits-receivables-from-major-banks/

This shows the size..growing every day

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/kohler-controlling-derivatives/5515666

We don't know when as all Govts are doing everything they can to delay/avoid/ lessen the impact..including cooking the books

We dont know how big

We do know it will come eventually as it always does
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August 04, 2014, 12:18:32 PM
 #34

I disagree.  The Government isn't the Borg Queen, it's a collection of individuals & agencies who are motivated by their individual goals and wishes.  The Federal Reserve for instance is distinct from the other arms of the government.

Bitcoin can be used as a national currency, no reason why it couldn't.  Governments can collect their revenue from taxation and then spend the funds accordingly.




Bitcoin will never be used as the USA National currency  as someone will want/need to control ...either Banks or Govt. but would probably co exist with a new National crypto currency.

The USA ( and a few others) Govt did not used to be the Borg Queen  a long time ago..but now it is. Govt is motivated by individual ( personal ..get rich or re-elected) goals in the 1st instance and good work in the second intance ( based on the   If I'm not elected ( which needs financing and money in MY bank) I cant do any good..doctrine)


While the Fed is outwardly private owned..the influence Govt has is in fact strong, if not effectively absolute..they will threaten to change the system and kick the bankers out if ever a major request to them is denied...Congress actually has power to do that if ever they want to...It is just convenient for Govt. to have a scape goat to blame if things go seriously wrong

a balanced view is here ( without the stated recognition that Govt has them over a barrel IF ever they want to remove their power)

http://www.monetary.org/is-the-federal-reserve-system-a-governmental-or-a-privately-controlled-organization/2008/02

Another disturbing thing about the British news report is its reflection of the naive belief that more regulation means a safer, less risky financial system and economy. Big Government here and in Europe has perpetrated the astonishing myth that the recent financial crisis was caused by reckless and greedy private-sector bankers. No wonder the public howls for bankers’ heads. The real villains here were governments, particularly central banks.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2013/07/24/big-government-and-central-banks-the-real-criminals/



I agree with this viewpoint.
Also, Bitcoin itself can't help any national economy to get rid of debts.
Economy (and specially World finance industry) is still based on USD, and most countries asking for loan in USA, and this will not change soon.
If bitcoin will be regulated and have its own bank this story may be different but because this will never happen we can't think that Bitcoin can directly help any of this 11 countries close to  bankruptcy...

......
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.....
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August 05, 2014, 11:18:55 AM
 #35

BTC or mad max
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August 05, 2014, 11:26:43 AM
 #36


Here is the list if someone want is reluctant to check the article...

1. Ecuador
2. Egypt
3. Pakistan
4. Venezuela
5. Argentina
6. Belize
7. Cuba
8. Cyprus
9. Greece
10. Jamaica
11. Ukraine


How did they forget places like Ireland, Portugal and Spain? Ireland is predicted to have about a 40% year over year chance of becoming bankrupt.

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TaunSew
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August 05, 2014, 11:36:24 AM
 #37

When the next debt crisis hits it is gonna be a masterpiece!  Blah Blah Blah.. wait and see

I don't think it'll be long before it does hit. Economists are already warning it will be worse than the sub prime crisis.

How can it be worse than sub prime?  Sub prime wiped out the construction industry (which hasn't come anywhere close to recovering in terms of jobs).

There's nothing left to wipe out anymore unless it's oil jobs, government jobs or office jobs..

Sub prime cost between 14 - 22 trillion dollars according to which estimate is closer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

http://www.businessinsider.com/fed-study-financial-crisis-costs-incalculable-2013-7


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/financial-crisis-cost-gao_n_2687553.html

The next one  could be worse due to monetary expansion used to "fix" the sub prime..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/02/11/why-the-next-financial-crisis-could-be-worse-than-2008/

What could be worse that that?Huh

Derivatives meltdown...or 20 - 25% of $710 trillion ..even if its only 5% that's twice the size of the last one

Buffet says its coming
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2014/04/30/seking-shelter-warren-buffett-limits-receivables-from-major-banks/

This shows the size..growing every day

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/kohler-controlling-derivatives/5515666

We don't know when as all Govts are doing everything they can to delay/avoid/ lessen the impact..including cooking the books

We dont know how big

We do know it will come eventually as it always does

What I meant is how does it hurt the working or middle class people.  A lot of people still haven't recovered to pre-2008 as sub prime literally wiped out construction and supporting industries.  So there's nothing to wipe out this second time around.   If I am wrong and it's bad bad well that comes down to the expression break a few eggs to make an omellete.  I don't think anyone thinks capitalism on a society basis has worked since the 1960s.



Sounds like you are concerned about a potential economic crisis that would actually hurt the banking class for a change.  Though using hurt is a bit of an understatement.  I wish I knew that feeling to downgrade from a Lamborghini to a Mustang.




There ain't no Revolution like a NEMolution.  The only solution is Bitcoin's dissolution! NEM!
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August 05, 2014, 11:40:27 AM
 #38

When the next debt crisis hits it is gonna be a masterpiece!  Blah Blah Blah.. wait and see

I don't think it'll be long before it does hit. Economists are already warning it will be worse than the sub prime crisis.

How can it be worse than sub prime?  Sub prime wiped out the construction industry (which hasn't come anywhere close to recovering in terms of jobs).

There's nothing left to wipe out anymore unless it's oil jobs, government jobs or office jobs..

Sub prime cost between 14 - 22 trillion dollars according to which estimate is closer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

http://www.businessinsider.com/fed-study-financial-crisis-costs-incalculable-2013-7


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/financial-crisis-cost-gao_n_2687553.html

The next one  could be worse due to monetary expansion used to "fix" the sub prime..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/02/11/why-the-next-financial-crisis-could-be-worse-than-2008/

What could be worse that that?Huh

Derivatives meltdown...or 20 - 25% of $710 trillion ..even if its only 5% that's twice the size of the last one

Buffet says its coming
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2014/04/30/seking-shelter-warren-buffett-limits-receivables-from-major-banks/

This shows the size..growing every day

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/kohler-controlling-derivatives/5515666

We don't know when as all Govts are doing everything they can to delay/avoid/ lessen the impact..including cooking the books

We dont know how big

We do know it will come eventually as it always does

Could JP Morgan have a very large derivative sheet in order to combat a predicted high inflation rate? Maybe they know something we don't?

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qwerty555
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August 05, 2014, 11:56:01 AM
Last edit: August 05, 2014, 12:16:26 PM by qwerty555
 #39

When the next debt crisis hits it is gonna be a masterpiece!  Blah Blah Blah.. wait and see

I don't think it'll be long before it does hit. Economists are already warning it will be worse than the sub prime crisis.

How can it be worse than sub prime?  Sub prime wiped out the construction industry (which hasn't come anywhere close to recovering in terms of jobs).

There's nothing left to wipe out anymore unless it's oil jobs, government jobs or office jobs..

Sub prime cost between 14 - 22 trillion dollars according to which estimate is closer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

http://www.businessinsider.com/fed-study-financial-crisis-costs-incalculable-2013-7


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/financial-crisis-cost-gao_n_2687553.html

The next one  could be worse due to monetary expansion used to "fix" the sub prime..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/02/11/why-the-next-financial-crisis-could-be-worse-than-2008/

What could be worse that that?Huh

Derivatives meltdown...or 20 - 25% of $710 trillion ..even if its only 5% that's twice the size of the last one

Buffet says its coming
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2014/04/30/seking-shelter-warren-buffett-limits-receivables-from-major-banks/

This shows the size..growing every day

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-12/kohler-controlling-derivatives/5515666

We don't know when as all Govts are doing everything they can to delay/avoid/ lessen the impact..including cooking the books

We dont know how big

We do know it will come eventually as it always does

What I meant is how does it hurt the working or middle class people.  A lot of people still haven't recovered to pre-2008 as sub prime literally wiped out construction and supporting industries.  So there's nothing to wipe out this second time around.   If I am wrong and it's bad bad well that comes down to the expression break a few eggs to make an omellete.  I don't think anyone thinks capitalism on a society basis has worked since the 1960s.



Sounds like you are concerned about a potential economic crisis that would actually hurt the banking class for a change.  Though using hurt is a bit of an understatement.  I wish I knew that feeling to downgrade from a Lamborghini to a Mustang.





There is still plenty to lose

reduction in pensions..spending power of pensions thru inflation (ffod inflation currently 20% + for 2014)..investments in the stock market lose 30%.. another house price crash  etc



http://go.bloomberg.com/market-now/2014/03/06/household-wealth-hits-record-savings-still-lo/

https://www.google.com.ph/search?q=value+of+savings+of+middle+class+usa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=KcTgU9kf5onxB-SDgZAM#q=stockmarket+overvalued+by+40%25+2014&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

It will hurt the middle classes most as always because

a) the poor have almost no savings to lose (76% of usa  survive paycheck to paycheck)
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/

b) the mega rich are mostly hedged against downturns and some actively bet on them so they make money when they happen .

Its the people not on welfare with some savings that will bear the brunt

Oh ..I forgot..when crisis hits (selected)  Banks get free money from the Fed

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/03/1274755/-Free-Money-for-the-Rich-The-Scandal-of-Quantitative-Easing-and-the-Undemocratic-Federal-Reserve#

and this is what they do with it Sad

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-10/guest-post-note-fed-giving-banks-free-money-wont-make-us-hire-more-workers
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August 05, 2014, 12:03:35 PM
 #40


Here is the list if someone want is reluctant to check the article...

1. Ecuador
2. Egypt
3. Pakistan
4. Venezuela
5. Argentina
6. Belize
7. Cuba
8. Cyprus
9. Greece
10. Jamaica
11. Ukraine


How did they forget places like Ireland, Portugal and Spain? Ireland is predicted to have about a 40% year over year chance of becoming bankrupt.

Because 11 is a really low number. Isn't this a list of the 11 most likely?
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