Misconceptions of Israeli Culture

[umair127]

To conclude with the Israeli song, here is Shir Shel Rega Ehad (Song for one moment) by TACT. A notable member of TACT is Subliminal. It is a song about an Israeli Soldier who goes on a bus and pens his own death letter to his girlfriend. He tragically died in a suicide bombing that night on the bus and left the letter to his girlfriend. The song is about him, Yaakov Paz. That is the Soldier's name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHlg_-Llh0

[umair127]

The Netanyahu government doesn't believe in a two state solution under any circumstances (He's publicly said as much and it is written into the charter of the party that he heads). Trying to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

A lot of Israeli governments say that.

It was the Likud (Netanyahu's same "right-wing party") that gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula. I have now shown you proof that even "right-wingers" make concessions. And Gaza's gone too. Now show me proof that Israel will do something differently.

The proof is a close to half century old occupation. Israel couldn't even live up to a single one of its peace plan promises under the Road Map, even when Palestinians under the PA lived up to their side of the bargain. Let me know when that changes.

1967-2014: Israel gave up over 75% of its land mass. It's only a matter of time before Israel withdraws from the West Bank. It will happen. History has shown us as much.

Where has history shown as much? And saying that Israel gave up 75% of its land mass is disingenuous. The Sinai never belonged to Israel / it never had any right to it. Likewise, the entire reason why the Gaza disengagement happened was (as was publicly admited) to kill the overall peace process, specifically as it related to the West Bank. So Israel get's no cudos for that.

They only took the Sinai because there were Egyptian troops massed on the border with Israel. Israel had to attack, or else the Egyptians would strike first.

But I gave you historical examples. Israeli withdrawals have happened. And they will happen again.

And Dylith, I feel the pain of both sides. The only people in this entire conflict I can't stand are Hamas and Hezbollah. I do not like terrorist organizations, but I have nothing against the Palestinian People.

[sana8410]

The Netanyahu government doesn't believe in a two state solution under any circumstances (He's publicly said as much and it is written into the charter of the party that he heads). Trying to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

A lot of Israeli governments say that.

It was the Likud (Netanyahu's same "right-wing party") that gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula. I have now shown you proof that even "right-wingers" make concessions. And Gaza's gone too. Now show me proof that Israel will do something differently.

The proof is a close to half century old occupation. Israel couldn't even live up to a single one of its peace plan promises under the Road Map, even when Palestinians under the PA lived up to their side of the bargain. Let me know when that changes.

1967-2014: Israel gave up over 75% of its land mass. It's only a matter of time before Israel withdraws from the West Bank. It will happen. History has shown us as much.

Where has history shown as much? And saying that Israel gave up 75% of its land mass is disingenuous. The Sinai never belonged to Israel / it never had any right to it. Likewise, the entire reason why the Gaza disengagement happened was (as was publicly admited) to kill the overall peace process, specifically as it related to the West Bank. So Israel get's no cudos for that.

They only took the Sinai because there were Egyptian troops massed on the border with Israel. Israel had to attack, or else the Egyptians would strike first.

But I gave you historical examples. Israeli withdrawals have happened. And they will happen again.

And Dylith, I feel the pain of both sides. The only people in this entire conflict I can't stand are Hamas and Hezbollah. I do not like terrorist organizations, but I have nothing against the Palestinian People.

Israeli generals don't all agree with your interpretation. And that is beside the point. It changes nothing as to the validity of your claims that the Sinai belonged to Israel.
You gave "examples" while completely ignoring their context. The West Bank isn't the same as the Sinai.

[umair127]

The Netanyahu government doesn't believe in a two state solution under any circumstances (He's publicly said as much and it is written into the charter of the party that he heads). Trying to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

A lot of Israeli governments say that.

It was the Likud (Netanyahu's same "right-wing party") that gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula. I have now shown you proof that even "right-wingers" make concessions. And Gaza's gone too. Now show me proof that Israel will do something differently.

The proof is a close to half century old occupation. Israel couldn't even live up to a single one of its peace plan promises under the Road Map, even when Palestinians under the PA lived up to their side of the bargain. Let me know when that changes.

1967-2014: Israel gave up over 75% of its land mass. It's only a matter of time before Israel withdraws from the West Bank. It will happen. History has shown us as much.

Where has history shown as much? And saying that Israel gave up 75% of its land mass is disingenuous. The Sinai never belonged to Israel / it never had any right to it. Likewise, the entire reason why the Gaza disengagement happened was (as was publicly admited) to kill the overall peace process, specifically as it related to the West Bank. So Israel get's no cudos for that.

They only took the Sinai because there were Egyptian troops massed on the border with Israel. Israel had to attack, or else the Egyptians would strike first.

But I gave you historical examples. Israeli withdrawals have happened. And they will happen again.

And Dylith, I feel the pain of both sides. The only people in this entire conflict I can't stand are Hamas and Hezbollah. I do not like terrorist organizations, but I have nothing against the Palestinian People.

Israeli generals don't all agree with your interpretation. And that is beside the point. It changes nothing as to the validity of your claims that the Sinai belonged to Israel.
You gave "examples" while completely ignoring their context. The West Bank isn't the same as the Sinai.

It's interesting how in American politics I would be considered a conservative for supporting Israel, but in Israeli politics I would be considered a liberal because I support a Two-State Solution. How interesting and strange.

Cliffs: In America if you support a Two-State solution, you are a conservative. In Israel, you are a liberal.

And I am open to both sides of the debate. That is why I posted Palestinian and Israeli hip hop videos in the previous page. I actually did a college research paper on Palestinian and Israeli hip hop.

[sana8410]

The Netanyahu government doesn't believe in a two state solution under any circumstances (He's publicly said as much and it is written into the charter of the party that he heads). Trying to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

A lot of Israeli governments say that.

It was the Likud (Netanyahu's same "right-wing party") that gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula. I have now shown you proof that even "right-wingers" make concessions. And Gaza's gone too. Now show me proof that Israel will do something differently.

The proof is a close to half century old occupation. Israel couldn't even live up to a single one of its peace plan promises under the Road Map, even when Palestinians under the PA lived up to their side of the bargain. Let me know when that changes.

1967-2014: Israel gave up over 75% of its land mass. It's only a matter of time before Israel withdraws from the West Bank. It will happen. History has shown us as much.

Where has history shown as much? And saying that Israel gave up 75% of its land mass is disingenuous. The Sinai never belonged to Israel / it never had any right to it. Likewise, the entire reason why the Gaza disengagement happened was (as was publicly admited) to kill the overall peace process, specifically as it related to the West Bank. So Israel get's no cudos for that.

They only took the Sinai because there were Egyptian troops massed on the border with Israel. Israel had to attack, or else the Egyptians would strike first.

But I gave you historical examples. Israeli withdrawals have happened. And they will happen again.

And Dylith, I feel the pain of both sides. The only people in this entire conflict I can't stand are Hamas and Hezbollah. I do not like terrorist organizations, but I have nothing against the Palestinian People.

Israeli generals don't all agree with your interpretation. And that is beside the point. It changes nothing as to the validity of your claims that the Sinai belonged to Israel.
You gave "examples" while completely ignoring their context. The West Bank isn't the same as the Sinai.

It's interesting how in American politics I would be considered a conservative for supporting Israel, but in Israeli politics I would be considered a liberal because I support a Two-State Solution. How interesting and strange.

Cliffs: In America if you support a Two-State solution, you are a conservative. In Israel, you are a liberal.

And I am open to both sides of the debate. That is why I posted Palestinian and Israeli hip hop videos in the previous page. I actually did a college research paper on Palestinian and Israeli hip hop.

I support Israel too, which is why I don't support leaders like Netanyahu or administrations hamstrung in the peace process by conservative kingmaker parties (aka all recent Israeli administrations).

[sana8410]

I seem to remember you voicing support for the election of Avigdor Lieberman as Prime Minister based on his Russian heritage. He certainly isn't a liberal candidate.

[umair127]

I seem to remember you voicing support for the election of Avigdor Lieberman as Prime Minister based on his Russian heritage. He certainly isn't a liberal candidate.

True. Because he speaks Russian and I can relate to him.

Now I really want to see either an Ethiopian Prime Minister or a North African/Southwest Asian Prime Minister. It would be nice to see Shaul Mofaz (Iranian descent) be the Prime Minister.

I just like to see more minority representation in the Israeli Prime Ministership. Israel has only had Ashkenazi Prime Ministers. They never had a Sephardic one. I wish that would change.

[noviapriani]

I propose then a suitable compromise of praying / studying / working ...

Daily prayers should start with a cold dip at 5am, then another cold dip and prayer at 6am before starting work at 7am.

Prayer breaks and baptisms to be conducted every 2 hours during work, then after work at 5pm - another 8 hours working as a Rabbi till 1am.

Wearing the tefillin at all times, on your head, throat, heart, arms and legs and nodding and bowing to god at all times, all day long.

Also listening to the bible on your iPod as much as possible.

I myself am Jewish, but am secular. I identify with my secular Jewish identity but I do not practice the religion. So praying does not factor in to my work day.

There are misconceptions of israeli culture that people are super religious or super praying but if you are from israel or live in israel this is not the case.

There are even misconceptions of jewish culture that people are super religious or super praying but if you are jewish this is also not the case.

Culture is basically "cult"ish, it tries to ensnare you in its cult ways, but even if you were born of hasidic parents and wore dreadlocks all your younger years, you could still end up to be a none cult like citizen, you could even become a punk porn star.

[noviapriani]

To conclude with the Israeli song, here is Shir Shel Rega Ehad (Song for one moment) by TACT. A notable member of TACT is Subliminal. It is a song about an Israeli Soldier who goes on a bus and pens his own death letter to his girlfriend. He tragically died in a suicide bombing that night on the bus and left the letter to his girlfriend. The song is about him, Yaakov Paz. That is the Soldier's name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHlg_-Llh0

Zohar must be from the 60's or something ? Patent white leather shoes, disco suit and bling, orchestra and drunken dancers flouncing about. Even with his extensive practice and polished performance from hundreds of takes, he sounds like a strangled cat.

He is not a patch on Paul Potts, the mobile phone salesman who was bullied as a nipper and not too confident, but he put on this performance the first time he got on stage ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k08yxu57NA

[kuroman]

I want to make a thread about the misconceptions of Israeli culture because I have seen, both online and offline, people who do not truly understand Israeli culture.

1.) In Israel, there are around 7.8 million people. About one hundred thousand to two hundred thousand are Arab Christians. 1.6 million are Arab Muslim. 6 million are Jewish. Out of those 6 million Jewish people, 3 million are European, 2.9 million are North African and Southwest Asia, and about one hundred thousand are Ethiopian. So about half of the Jewish people in Israel are from outside of Europe and the other half of the Jewish people in Israel are from Europe. Do not let anyone tell you that 90%+ of Israeli Jews are European. That is simply not true.

2.) Hebrew, a Semitic language similar to Arabic, is spoken in Israel. They do not speak Yiddish in Israel.

3.) Israel has Hebrew rap and Hebrew heavy metal music. Not everyone in Israel is super religious and shuns the media and pop culture. For the most part, except observing Shabbat (the Sabbath), Israel is a fairly secular country.

4.) The former President of Israel, Moshe Katzav, is of Iranian descent. The leader of the Kadima Party in Israel, Shaul Mofaz, is also of Iranian descent. There are many Jewish people of Sephardic/Mizrahi (Arab, Berber, and Iranian Jewish) descent in positions of political power in Israel.

5.) People say Israel expelled 700,000 Palestinians in 1948. Well, between 1948 and 1967, 1 million Jews from North Africa and Southwest Asia were expelled by Arab countries and fled to Israel.

6.) Not a misconception. But a fact. Miss Israel 2013 is of Ethiopian descent.

7.) Another fact. An Israeli company invented the first USB drives.

Proof of 5? Most Jews that lived in north-africa lived in Morocco and they choose to immigrate and they weren't expelled as you claim as I have friends from such families.

As for 1 during the creation of Israel, 90%+ Of jews were from EU origins. as for the rest I don't know really, but it does make sense

but I have a question, is it true that Jew people has more advantages and rights as non jews in Israel, are Muslim Israelies treated the same as any other white Jew Israelies ?

[sana8410]

I heard somewhere that Jews are the cause of the world's wars. I think Mel Gibson said it. Is he right? Seems like a rather adolescent attempt at tongue-in-cheek.

[zolace]

I heard somewhere that Jews are the cause of the world's wars. I think Mel Gibson said it. Is he right? Seems like a rather adolescent attempt at tongue-in-cheek.

There are thousands of forces at work within each country. And there are many factors that lead to war. It is not just Jews who sit around and plan for various wars. And like I just said, many different groups/forces plan wars, and many factors lead up to those wars.

[Razick]

You know, speaking of Isreal, this propaganda piece really struck me as making a good point, but was hugely unpopular in the UK. I get that it can be uncomfortable, but it's meant to be. Regardless of what city it depicts, it makes a good point. As someone living in Houston, if Mexico was to fire missiles at us (especially if it went on for years), an invasion would seem entirely valid.

I get that the war is horrible, but I have trouble blaming Isreal myself. Am I missing something here?

[Spekulatius]

You know, speaking of Isreal, this propaganda piece really struck me as making a good point, but was hugely unpopular in the UK. I get that it can be uncomfortable, but it's meant to be. Regardless of what city it depicts, it makes a good point. As someone living in Houston, if Mexico was to fire missiles at us (especially if it went on for years), an invasion would seem entirely valid.

I get that the war is horrible, but I have trouble blaming Isreal myself. Am I missing something here?

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2014/0716/Gaza-militants-rockets-Fewer-less-accurate-than-last-Hamas-Israel-conflict-video

An interesting article, questioning the effectiveness of Israel's "Iron Dome" missle defense shield and giving account of Hamas's rocket accuracy. I didnt double check the validity of this source. By the looks of this statistic it seems as if Hams's rocket firings achieve not much more then scaring the Israeli population. From wikipedia:

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. As of July 2014 the attacks have killed 28 people,[1] mostly civilians, and injured more than 1900 people, but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel#2014

This is not to neglect the death toll of 24 innocent Israeli lives, that have been wiped out in this way, but to put in perspective what the Israeli reaction looks like and how many civilian casualties the IDF's massive bombardement and targeted air strikes of urban neighborhoods has caused among the Palestinians, the bully in this case seems to be the Israeli government.

Comparing only the loss of lives on both sides, the picture looks very one sided indeed:
Israel: 64 soldiers killed, 2 civillians / Gaza: 1500-2000 killed (mostly civilians; even according to IDF sources at least half of them civilians)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict



P.S.: I came across a collection of both pro Israel and pro Hamas propaganda posters, see for yourselves:

https://imgur.com/r/PropagandaPosters/WICQoyg

[kuroman]

You know, speaking of Isreal, this propaganda piece really struck me as making a good point, but was hugely unpopular in the UK. I get that it can be uncomfortable, but it's meant to be. Regardless of what city it depicts, it makes a good point. As someone living in Houston, if Mexico was to fire missiles at us (especially if it went on for years), an invasion would seem entirely valid.

I get that the war is horrible, but I have trouble blaming Isreal myself. Am I missing something here?

Yup you are missing a lot, and you've exactly feel to what this propaganda message makes want to believe, without mentioning the fact that Israel is colonizing Palestine, prosecuting, kicking out and murdering people, stealing land and resources ...ect ect and been doing this for half a century (officially that is recognition by the UN as occupied land)

@Spelulatius, the big thing about the Israeli propaganda, is that is officially distribute, being by embassies, Israeli organization, foreign ministry (that been recruiting shills and building what's called JIDF) and the Image of London was actually distribute by the Israeli embassy if I'm not mistaken, and that's not the only things you do, there were reports of agressive statement and behavious by Israeli embassies in different countries against media and the last one was against TVE in spain you can google it for more informations

[ANTIcentralized]

I heard somewhere that Jews are the cause of the world's wars. I think Mel Gibson said it. Is he right? Seems like a rather adolescent attempt at tongue-in-cheek.

This is really not true. Religion has been the cause of many wars, but most modern wars are generally over oil and other natural resources. 

[Rampion]

I will discuss what I think Zionism is. I think Zionism exists for religious Jews who want a G-d-fearing Homeland to go to. Zionism exists for secular Jews as a place of sanctuary.

Adolf Hitler, as well as modern day Neo-Nazi groups, usually decide to take on a negative view of a person if they are born to a Jewish mother. Hitler did not care whether one was secular or religious. If they were Jewish, then Hitler did not like them. That is why Israel exists. To give both secular and religious Jews a place to go to when they feel like the world, or a particular part of the world, is bearing down on them with threats of antisemitism. That is why many Jews who are secular still support Israel. Because many anti-Semites seem to dislike Jews because they were born Jewish and not whether or not they practice the religion.

Stating the obvious: Israel is currently fueling anti-semitism by commiting atrocious crimes against humanity.

The fact that no party in that conflict has the moral high ground, and that Hamas head is composed by a bunch of blood-thirsty criminals, doesn't justify the horrendous crimes commited by Israel.

Sometimes I wish that Israel was moved to the US: there are many reasons for it.

• Everybody seems to love Israel in the US
• the US Government always backs Israel despite of what the UN or other Western countries say
• there is pleeeeenty of space in the US to accomodate the 8 millions Israelians in what could be the 51th state.
• It would be a win/win: the US would benefit from the hyper-qualified Israelians (engineers, doctors, science people), and wouldn't be the state of Israel (and its people) much more safe surrounded by friends and not by deadly foes as it is?

That won't even be discussed seriously, do you know why? Because for the US is very convenient to have a good and powerful brother that recurrently wins its wars in the ME, with a bit of ethnic cleansing here and there. Of course somebody will tell us  some weird and anachronic explanation about the Jeweish being "the chosen people" and being "The Land of Israel" their "promised land", so there is no way they will move from there and "give up" Jersulem, and blah blah blah... But as you said there are many secular Jews that are not fanatic at all and just want to have a safe "sanctuary" in case there is a come back of the historic anti-semitism that history has witnessed for millenia. I guess that even the most stupid person in the world understands that no piece of land is worth the life of hundreds of innocent children, but again this is just economic and geopolitic interests at work - a super strong Israel surrounded by enemy Arab countries is too convenient for the current US status-quo.

Wars have always a clear economic reason - the common people is sent to die for some moronic ideals, but the true reasons are always power and hegemony = money for the people waging such wars.

[desired_username]

Who would win the fight?

1.) Your imaginary formless spirit entity

or

2.) The Christian's imaginary sky wizard?

[bitsmichel]

I heard somewhere that Jews are the cause of the world's wars. I think Mel Gibson said it. Is he right? Seems like a rather adolescent attempt at tongue-in-cheek.

This is really not true. Religion has been the cause of many wars, but most modern wars are generally over oil and other natural resources. 

There is always a cost/benefit analysis in war in the top layer - and the reason is always power - but, from the citizen/media perspective it's always about other reasons, be it freedom, religion, justice and so on.

[Schleicher]

I heard somewhere that Jews are the cause of the world's wars. I think Mel Gibson said it. Is he right? Seems like a rather adolescent attempt at tongue-in-cheek.

This is really not true. Religion has been the cause of many wars, but most modern wars are generally over oil and other natural resources. 

There is always a cost/benefit analysis in war in the top layer - and the reason is always power - but, from the citizen/media perspective it's always about other reasons, be it freedom, religion, justice and so on.

And then there's the theory that the wars are caused by too many angry young men in a region.