Bitcoin = political?

[inBitweTrust]

bitcoin is not any of the ethos's you described. it just logs transactions. but because its so basic without limits and without political directions ANY personal ethos can be applied to it.

Your refutations disagree with intent and not the fundamental design elements. Satoshi and most of the crypto-anarchists who developed Bitcoin were libertarian and anarchists. Their politics are inconsequential outside of hinting at their motivations; what matters is the design of the technology.

A bitcoin protocol which matched a "representative democracy" design would allows all users to vote for a group of leaders to represent their interests and code changes. Users would not be allowed to fork the code or disobey the decisions made by these representatives as they have been born into a social contract that mandated they follow these principles whether or not they choose to vote. This is not how bitcoin is designed.

A bitcoin protocol which matched a "Pure Democracy" design would allows all users to vote on every feature or code change directly. Once the majority votes everyone must conform to these changes.  Users would not be allowed to fork the code or disobey the decisions made by the majority. This is not how bitcoin is designed.

A bitcoin protocol which matched a "monarchy or dictatorship" design would have Satoshi appointed as law giver where we all were forced to comply with his code decisions. This is not how bitcoin is designed.

A bitcoin protocol which matched a "State Socialist" design would have a central body (that is publicly "owned") control the miners and profits where elected representatives would distribute bitcoins to projects and individuals they seem worthy. This is not how bitcoin is designed.

A bitcoin protocol which matched a "RBE" design wouldn't exist as Bitcoin represents money and a crypto-currency ledger that used mixture of POR/POS instead would be used. This is not how bitcoin is designed.



I can go on in much greater details with more specific design elements and how Bitcoin doesn't necessarily match certain political philosophies but you get the idea. Bitcoin could of course be used by any of the above governments or individuals from any political philosophy but its design allows a backdoor where the political philosophies cannot impose their violence or "social contracts" as enforcement so easily.

[Omikifuse]

No.

Technology has no political side per se. The only ones that say so are those who want vouch against certain technologies because, in their vision, they are in the wrong side of the political spectrum.


Or naive people that put their political ideology above the reality, so they tend to see everything related to politics in some sense

[inBitweTrust]

Technology has no political side per se.

Politics is the practice and theory of influencing other people on a global, civic or individual level.

Politics is a type of technology.

A technology protocol can influence other people on a global, civic or individual level.

The design of a technology has certain social and political consequences upon society.

Whether or not you choose to classify technology as categorically aligning to one political philosophy or not is inconsequential. What matters is how said technology will shape society in the future.

Bitcoin will make certain political philosophies difficult to enforce and inefficient.

[polynesia]

We've all been calling Bitcoin a "libertarian" technology but what if Satoshi didn't really intend it to be? What if all the political stuff just came after Bitcoin went huge? Don't get me wrong, it's pretty sweet, but remember, it all started with a paper by Satoshi Nakamoto. http://bitcoinonmars.com/blog/is-bitcoin-political/

The technology itself is just that - technology.
Think of all the altcoins - you could create one to suit your political philosophy. 

[1MCoin]

 it doesn't seem like there were political intentions

[inBitweTrust]

A historical perspective of how Bitcoin was born from anarchists/cipher punks and designed specifically for political reasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPY-5SR-jPQ

Bitcoin as a protocol is indifferent what your political beliefs are, but is designed by anarchists for anarchist purposes.

[Este Nuno]

Bitcoin as a protocol is indifferent what your political beliefs are, but is designed by anarchists for anarchist purposes.

That's reaching a bit. All the research that Bitcoin was based upon was not necessarily done by anarchists. Wanting to make 'fair money' doesn't automatically translate in to anarchism.

[inBitweTrust]

That's reaching a bit. All the research that Bitcoin was based upon was not necessarily done by anarchists. Wanting to make 'fair money' doesn't automatically translate in to anarchism.

This is where the confusion lies. Honest and fair money does indeed translate to an Anarchist/Agorist framework. Can you name me one other political framework that doesn't use violence and coercion under a non-voluntary social contract as a means to establish their political structure?

Not only does the cipher punk history show Bitcoin was developed mainly by libertarians/anarchists but the intrinsic properties within Bitcoin are voluntarist/agorist by design.

Governments of any political persuasion can use Bitcoin but the inherent nature of the technology makes collecting taxes and imposing regulation difficult to do if not practically unfeasible.

[BitCoinNutJob]

BTC has no political ideology, calling it libertarian is like calling a vacuum cleaner an anarcho syndicalist

Well, it has some aspects that could make it more suitable for one political direction than the other. One of the most striking things would be that you can't influence the market or the economy by printing new currency units. I think it is a fact, that Bitcoin is better suited for a libertarian market than, say, a socialist one.

Im not sure i agree actually i still find it neutral and just technology.  If a political system did shift to say libertarian the word libertarian changes meaning. 

A highly socialist society could still come up with very creative ways to "control" bitcoin and at that point libertarians could be campaigning everyone should stop using bitcoin.

The invention of bitcoin has highlighted fiat currency as a limited design yet still a powerful tool currently.

[inBitweTrust]

Im not sure i agree actually i still find it neutral and just technology.  If a political system did shift to say libertarian the word libertarian changes meaning.  

Satoshi would disagree with you:

"[Bitcoin is] very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though." - Satoshi Nakamoto

His personal politics are inconsequential however, its the design of the protocol that matters and its effects upon society. If Bitcoin was indeed manipulated by governments to become more politically controllable than you have essentially just forked Bitcoin and created an alt. If Bitcoin is changed from its originally design specifications at a fundamental level than we can hardly call it Bitcoin anymore and doing so is an act of manipulative propaganda.

[Este Nuno]

Im not sure i agree actually i still find it neutral and just technology.  If a political system did shift to say libertarian the word libertarian changes meaning. 

Satoshi would disagree with you:

"[Bitcoin is] very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though." - Satoshi Nakamoto

His personal politics are inconsequential however, its the design of the protocol that matters and its effects upon society. If Bitcoin was indeed manipulated by governments to become more politically controllable than you have essentially just forked Bitcoin and created an alt. If Bitcoin is changed from its originally design specifications at a fundamental level than we can hardly call it Bitcoin anymore and doing so is an act of manipulative propaganda.

Satoshi's statement there gives us no information other than what we already know: Bitcoin is attractive to libertarians.

[inBitweTrust]

Bitcoin is attractive to libertarians.

.... because of the inherent design principles of the protocol.

Why didn't Satoshi discuss the value of the bitcoin framework to socialists, communists, representative governments? Why did he only mention libertarianism and show extreme distrust with governments?

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own." - Satoshi Nakamoto

“We don’t want to lead with 'anonymous.' I am definitely not making any such taunt or assertion [that] 'The developers expect that this will result in a stable-with-respect-to-energy currency outside the reach of any government.'"- Satoshi Nakamoto

[Este Nuno]

Bitcoin is attractive to libertarians.

.... because of the inherent design principles of the protocol.

Why didn't Satoshi discuss the value of the bitcoin framework to socialists, communists, representative governments? Why did he only mention libertarianism and show extreme distrust with governments?

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own." - Satoshi Nakamoto

“We don’t want to lead with 'anonymous.' I am definitely not making any such taunt or assertion [that] 'The developers expect that this will result in a stable-with-respect-to-energy currency outside the reach of any government.'"- Satoshi Nakamoto

Wanting fair money or wanting to invent a revolutionary currency is enough on it's own and doesn't imply any specific political agenda. You can still be a socialist, communist, or believe in representative government and see the value in Bitcoin. It's not exclusive. I think everyone distrusts most modern governments regardless of what political ideology you believe in.

Even a hardcore Marxist would agree with Satoshi's statements that you quoted. All his quotes are simply stating facts. And if you read into them more he's clearly trying to avoid identifying Bitcoin with any one particular political ideology.

He might have been a libertarian. He probably was. But he definitely took care not to bog down his project with unnecessary political association.

[QuestionAuthority]

Humans will make everything including milk and ice cream political.

[btcxyzzz]

BTC has no political ideology, calling it libertarian is like calling a vacuum cleaner an anarcho syndicalist

BTC is pure political ideology. It's actually the first real money on Earth.

[inBitweTrust]

calling it libertarian is like calling a vacuum cleaner an anarcho syndicalist

Vacuum cleaners are actually Socialist as they are very efficient at consuming all loose coin from your home to dispose in the trash and generally suck when used in everyday life.

[raganius]

What does it matter what Satoshi intended it to be? It is what it is and the people will use it as they wish. Nobody can stop it now.

Very true. Satoshi (whoever he is) does not own Bitcoin.

[Este Nuno]

What does it matter what Satoshi intended it to be? It is what it is and the people will use it as they wish. Nobody can stop it now.

Very true. Satoshi (whoever he is) does not own Bitcoin.

With the amount that he mined he's may not own it but he definitely has the ability to bring it to its knees if he wanted to.

[beetcoin]

why does OP think libertarian is not a political faction? it is one. a definition of politics is "having a policy or system of government." libertarianism is a policy, or world view of how "government" should or shouldn't function. libertarian and politics are not mutually exclusive.

[raganius]

What does it matter what Satoshi intended it to be? It is what it is and the people will use it as they wish. Nobody can stop it now.

Very true. Satoshi (whoever he is) does not own Bitcoin.

With the amount that he mined he's may not own it but he definitely has the ability to bring it to its knees if he wanted to.

  true... but still, I count with the possibility that he has lost access to those PrivKeys