[ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000

[crowetic]

crowetic - One thing - You are naive. That's all. I am not against you but you are naive. I am in community for long time. I read every single post in this thread. And you know what? I remember your conversations with Elmit. I remember the case with mmaybe. So you are not so perfect as you think. And now you are a big fan of bitladen. How much or what he promise to you for that?

And are you trying to compare bitladen and our real burstcoin dev only becouse of anonimity? REALLY ? I don't have a time for that but if you want i can paste here some quotes of bitladen from this thread but i think you know it very well.

You can read some of his creativeness (nice fun)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=485195;sa=showPosts;start=220

I don't want to argue with you. I am glad that many other users in this community see the problem with bitladen.

Maybe you're unclear on the definition of the word 'naive'. But if you knew the whole story on the mmmaybe situation, you'd know you have no idea what you're talking about. Also, Elmit? What? I think you're a little confused. Seriously man, if all you're going to do here is come in and say things that you have no idea about, just don't. It's a waste of everyone's time having to read it.

I've also read every post in the thread, and I hardly remember you at all, maybe that's saying something. Why don't you quit coming in to call me names you don't even know the meaning of, and go do something beneficial for the coin?

I will say this once again, I understand people's feelings on bit, but that doesn't mean I have to feel the same way. Everyone, including me, is entitled to their opinions. If you don't like my opinions, that's fine, but calling me names just makes you look ridiculous. Especially with situations that you only know the public view on. When all of the truth on what really happened was never posted publicly. Taking the word of random trolls can be unwise.

This will be my last direct comment to you, as I don't feel like you're worth my time. But please, do me a favor and just keep my name out of your mouth? Thanks.

[Irontiga]

come one tiga, you want to spend 1.8 Dollar for such a great idea?

I think you can do better than this?

I don't see you putting up any money...

But yeah, I likely could, but right now all my burst is in assets and on the exchange, and I'm going to leave it that way.

[BurstIncomeAsset]

Well for short term, I think we need more assets, with good business plans/income.

Or people could create derivatives of existing assets: like from ByteEnt somebody created ByteEMini ,etc...

There are at least 4-5 assets on BURST that are worth something, so if somebody has time or ideas to create derivatives for them it would help them grow better.


I still see that the majority of BURSTs are in addresses, non-invested, exposed directly to inflation, which is not good, because that way people can panic-sell anytime. If their capital is protected in an asset it would give greater confidence to BURST, and more usage to it.

(tip: people really need to move their BURST from time to time, otherwise miners don't get fees)

Exactly why a 'better' market site is needed. 
Once goods and services can be easily located... Burst will flow!

Well for 1 the derivatives could help people who have less BURST, some people use the faucet to get burst or have in the low 1000's.

Making mini assets like from ByteEnt somebody created ByteEMini would encourage more people to invest in them, because they can get them cheaper.

Most assets are already over 20 BURST, maybe somebody wants to grab some at 1-2 BURST price.

Or just other FUND MANAGERS that want to make an INDEX of the best performing assets are also welcome to create their own funds.

We need to find a good use for BURST, it is an asset platform like NXT and people should use it more, instead of just holding their BURST in their addresses.

[BurstIncomeAsset]

Is it just me or we are really starting to recover from the "BURST depression", the price has gone up today to 30 satoshi ASK.

On Poloniex it has a 29 BID and a 30 ASK, very tight spread showing that we got good volume (0.71 BTC):

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_burst


It is indicative that if the bickering and conflict stops on this thread, then the price will recover. That is the medicine for BURST

[markm]

Okay, so Burst is an asset platform, great.

I am looking around at asset platforms because Open Transactions changed the internal format of its contracts, nyms and such quite long ago now, leaving me orphaned with all my contracts even my server contract not able to work with the new formats going forward.

I have a number of assets, see some of them at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

So far I have had a couple of fairly major problems with the platforms I have looked at.

For one thing, other than Ripple many of them do not seem to allow asset pairs without crowbarring their platform coin into the thing breaking up all the pairs and, it looks to me, very likely thereby screwing everyone who actually tries to use them.

Consider for example two players, one having 100 UKB they want to exchange for 100 CDN, the other having 100 CDN they want to exchange for 100 UKB.

On a platform that crowbars its own platform coin into all pairs, they cannot actually offer to exchange their 100 coins for the other guy's 100 different coins.

Instead they each have to make up some number of the platform's coin that they want to sell their coin for, hopefully enough to buy the other guy's coin, with a slight fudge for some kind of transaction fees.

The massive elephant in the room problem is most of the platforms have huge huge piles of their platform coin sitting around, often held by some developer pre-mine system such as a "development foundation" or some such thing, often not merely dwarfing all coins held by anyone else but also even increasing all the time via "staking".

So imagine what is likely to happen: both players list their coin but are forced to say they will accept the useless-to-them platform coin in payment for it.

The whales such as the pre-mine holders snap up both of their offerings.

Both players have now lost the coins they had and are stuck with useless-to-them platform coins.

After being screwed like that obviously neither will want to list even more of the coins they actually value as for sale, lest they end up stuck with even more of the useless-to-them platform coins.

So both are now stuck with platform coins they consider useless, and cannot get the coins they actually wanted because no one who holds the coin they want wants the stupid platform coins so are not going to put more of their coins up for sale, as the whales of the platform can throw away millions or billions of the worthless platform-coins at any actual assets anyone is dumb enough to offer on the platform.

The second problem is that most of these platforms do not seem to allow building up deep order-books.

Or at least some of them.

I have for example seen at least one platform where you only get to have one offer per pair, whereas when I go about building depth in an order book it typically requires literally thousands of offers on both sides (sell and buy) of the order book, in order to make a huge pile on both sides, ideally with an offer at every possible price (each satoshi of price) to make a really solid, really deep book.

These two problems are why I have not started using HORIZON platform for example. I suspect a lot of other platforms derive from the same roots as HORIZON so not sure there is any platform yet that avoids these problems. (Well maybe Ripple, but it has its own problems...)

I have seen a system that lets you say you will sell up to so many of a thing at a given price, so it can keep selling whenever you have some on hand, so maybe some system would like to add onto that a price increment/decrement, so you can say you will buy or sell up to so many adjusting the price so much per so many?

-MarkM-

[crowetic]

Why wouldn't they be able to sell these 'useless-to-them' coins @ an exchange where people find them not to be so 'useless'? Or am I missing something here? Also, with Automated Transactions and 'Atomic Cross Chain Transfers' They could directly trade these coins with whatever other coin. Only catch being the other coin also has to have Automated Transactions.


As far as the depth of the order book, I'm not sure on that I'll have to find out.


Also, with the marketplace you can sell whatever thing at a given price, and modify said price whenever you'd like.

[BurstIncomeAsset]

Okay, so Burst is an asset platform, great.

.....

I have for example seen at least one platform where you only get to have one offer per pair, whereas when I go about building depth in an order book it typically requires literally thousands of offers on both sides (sell and buy) of the order book, in order to make a huge pile on both sides, ideally with an offer at every possible price (each satoshi of price) to make a really solid, really deep book.

These two problems are why I have not started using HORIZON platform for example. I suspect a lot of other platforms derive from the same roots as HORIZON so not sure there is any platform yet that avoids these problems. (Well maybe Ripple, but it has its own problems...)

I have seen a system that lets you say you will sell up to so many of a thing at a given price, so it can keep selling whenever you have some on hand, so maybe some system would like to add onto that a price increment/decrement, so you can say you will buy or sell up to so many adjusting the price so much per so many?

Well sure, you can move your assets into the BURST AE, for very cheap cost. It cost 1000 BURST to create an asset, that is about 7 cents.

As for the orderbook depth, that depends on the transaction volume. My asset had very small volume not too long ago, but now it became the highest traded asset of BURST.

https://block.burstcoin.info/as.php?as=11188744773544606055

It has ~2 million BURST BID liquidity and ~118 million ASK liquidity (the sell wall I setup myself). I setup a very progressive sell wall that will give a guideline to how the price will increase, but also make it easier to jump higher.

As the price goes higher, the quantity sold gets smaller and smaller, stimulating a scarcity of the asset, and ensuring that the price will go up, until the last of them are sold from the issuing address.

It is a pretty good tehnique, and so far the BID price always followed the ASK. So at the moment the trade volume is important.

[markm]

Why wouldn't they be able to sell these 'useless-to-them' coins @ an exchange where people find them not to be so 'useless'? Or am I missing something here?


As far as the depth of the order book, I'm not sure on that I'll have to find out.


Also, with the marketplace you can sell whatever thing at a given price, and modify said price whenever you'd like.

Well right now they have been operating in a universe or multiverse in which very few of the currencies/assets in use actually appear on any of the types of exchange altcoin users are used to, which is to say website type exchanges where the public goes to the website and trades on it.

(Most players would just visit their guild, chat with the guildmasters, find out what the going rates were, and have their guild officers execute trades on the Open Transactions system on their behalf.)

Most of the coins that were originally created as blockchains have long ago switched from using blockchains because even using merged mining it turned out that blockchains are not practical to secure; you cannot get enough merged mining pools to support your coins so you end up with so little hashing power the coin cannot possibly be viewed as secure.

That is why we moved to Open Transactions in the first place, there were a number of nations and corporations that had coins in which there were 21 million coins, like bitcoin, but in which long ago all the coins were issued so there were no longer rewards available to miners for mining them, other than transaction fees.

We can see from what is happening with IXCoin and I0Coin how that is likely to turn out, so we moved to the Open Transactions platform to avoid the need for miners.

So look again at two players, one of whom is a Brit, a member of Britclan, a user of Britclan's national coin, the United Kingdom Britcoin, and the other is a Canuck, a member of the Canuck clan, a user of the Canucks' national coin, Canadian Digital Notes.

For what do you propose they sell the useless-to-them platform coins, heck lets get specific and assume they do try to use the BURST platform. They want to buy coins that are used in their universe / multiverse, such as those listed at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

On the Open Transactions system we did actually have a platform coin of sorts, by turning on "usage credits" system we were able to prevent anyone doing any API calls without owning "usage credits".

But, the ":usage credits" on that system are deliberately not something you can trade, because another of their uses is as part of a Know Your Customer system; by having those usage credits available only directly from the system administrators Open Transactions enables system administrators to prevent anyone they do not know from using API calls. so that if they choose to do so they could refuse to issue any usage credits to anyone whose identity they are not satisfied with.

On Open Transactions you can pair any asset/currency against any other, and at any scale that is a power of ten, so you can have for example pairs at scale of millions where the governments and multi-nationals can trade in bulk with each other in "lots" of a million coins at a time, markets at scale of 100,000 where smaller players can break down a lot of a million into ten lots of 100,000 to sell at a profit, buying from the millions-scale markets, and so on down to markets where people can buy a single coin of a type at a time.

This was working very nicely actually, so much so that we are still looking into trying to migrate to the new Open Transactions system.

Maybe the problem with the huge numbers of platform coins is simply one of what is the saturation point at which the whales of the system will choke on the new incoming assets and find they no longer have enough platform coins laying around to be able to continue throwing them willy nilly at each new asset that comes along?

That is, maybe if I convince the nations and multinationals behind the major coins of the Galactic Milieu to each throw a few million of their 21 million coins into BURST, at a sufficiently high price in BURST, we can reach a point at which these whales that we fear have loaded themselves up with "enough" of each asset that they sit back and let some actual trading between the "new" assets take place?

But how much is this going to cost them in their own coins? I guess that is the problem.

It is possible that the real solution to all this is to clone one of the platforms and divide the billions or hundreds of billions of platform-coins among all the nations and multinationals that are behind our existing coins/assets, so that they themselves are the whales of the system...

Something like HORIZON might work if done that way, but, it would mean having to maintain the thing.

-MarkM-

[pinballdude]

I recieved my 16TB today and have installed one 8TB drive, moving data onto the new drive and the drives being freed are being plotted and mined. I might only be able to plot and mine 8TB instead of 10TB as planned, but i'll buy some more TB next month.
 

[markm]

Volume is important to exchanges, not to currencies.

Depth is important though.

A currency can get by quite well only performing one balance-of-payments exchange per year to balance up the international trade, for example if the Brits bought more stuff from the Canucks than the Canucks bought from the Brits during a given year, the Brits send some funds to the Canucks to balance their trade. Heck they need not even do an exchange for that, as when they do buy Canadian Digital Notes with which to make such payments they can buy enough for several years worth of balance of trade payments.

So what is important is depth: the ability to buy or sell millions of the 21 million coins of each type that exist.

Most of the time they can get by using the millions of each type of coin that they have in their treasury as "backing" for their own currency so that they are always able to buy back all of their own currency that is not currently in their own treasury.

So exchanges really have wrong incentives as far as the currencies are concerned; the currencies want places where for years and decades and centuries they can have offers on file to buy and to sell their coin, even if no exchanges actually take place in any given year or decade or century.

The main purpose of the exchanges, to them, is simply to establish a going rate of exchange, so that corporations banks whatever can consult an exchange rate table to conveniently accept various major currencies in payment for goods or payment of debts.

To establish price it is not necessary to have volume, just to have offers on both sides of the order-book, ideally massively more deep than anyone's normal day to day purchases, so that someone buying a few million units of a commodity need not concern themselves about depth of exchange rates just consult a price list of currencies because their purchase is trivially small compared to the vast amount of money in the forex markets.

(When a gas station says it will accept USD instead of CAD, for example, it does not look at a market for depth, it just looks in a newspaper to see today's exchange rate, and marks it up a little. Most transactions in the game similarly just look at the latest rates include-file, http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc or their scripts include the file, they do not go rooting around in exchanges to figure out what prices to charge in the various currencies. Look at the "prices of Deuterium in various currencies" listing for example at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/deuterium.html that is basically just using the latestrates include file exchange rates to convert the price into the various currencies/assets.)

-MarkM-

[Irontiga]

Through AT's it is possible to create asset to asset trading pairs. This may incur higher fees than just 1 Burst like an asset to burst trade, but it shouldn't be a lot more. I would suggest speaking to vbcs about this.

[wmikrut]

The great MarkM speaks.... bow you fools!!!
 

[Irontiga]

The great MarkM speaks.... bow you fools!!!
 

Haha, this troll just leveled up!

[crowetic]

Why wouldn't they be able to sell these 'useless-to-them' coins @ an exchange where people find them not to be so 'useless'? Or am I missing something here?


As far as the depth of the order book, I'm not sure on that I'll have to find out.


Also, with the marketplace you can sell whatever thing at a given price, and modify said price whenever you'd like.

Well right now they have been operating in a universe or multiverse in which very few of the currencies/assets in use actually appear on any of the types of exchange altcoin users are used to, which is to say website type exchanges where the public goes to the website and trades on it.

(Most players would just visit their guild, chat with the guildmasters, find out what the going rates were, and have their guild officers execute trades on the Open Transactions system on their behalf.)

Most of the coins that were originally created as blockchains have long ago switched from using blockchains because even using merged mining it turned out that blockchains are not practical to secure; you cannot get enough merged mining pools to support your coins so you end up with so little hashing power the coin cannot possibly be viewed as secure.

That is why we moved to Open Transactions in the first place, there were a number of nations and corporations that had coins in which there were 21 million coins, like bitcoin, but in which long ago all the coins were issued so there were no longer rewards available to miners for mining them, other than transaction fees.

We can see from what is happening with IXCoin and I0Coin how that is likely to turn out, so we moved to the Open Transactions platform to avoid the need for miners.

So look again at two players, one of whom is a Brit, a member of Britclan, a user of Britclan's national coin, the United Kingdom Britcoin, and the other is a Canuck, a member of the Canuck clan, a user of the Canucks' national coin, Canadian Digital Notes.

For what do you propose they sell the useless-to-them platform coins, heck lets get specific and assume they do try to use the BURST platform. They want to buy coins that are used in their universe / multiverse, such as those listed at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

On the Open Transactions system we did actually have a platform coin of sorts, by turning on "usage credits" system we were able to prevent anyone doing any API calls without owning "usage credits".

But, the ":usage credits" on that system are deliberately not something you can trade, because another of their uses is as part of a Know Your Customer system; by having those usage credits available only directly from the system administrators Open Transactions enables system administrators to prevent anyone they do not know from using API calls. so that if they choose to do so they could refuse to issue any usage credits to anyone whose identity they are not satisfied with.

On Open Transactions you can pair any asset/currency against any other, and at any scale that is a power of ten, so you can have for example pairs at scale of millions where the governments and multi-nationals can trade in bulk with each other in "lots" of a million coins at a time, markets at scale of 100,000 where smaller players can break down a lot of a million into ten lots of 100,000 to sell at a profit, buying from the millions-scale markets, and so on down to markets where people can buy a single coin of a type at a time.

This was working very nicely actually, so much so that we are still looking into trying to migrate to the new Open Transactions system.

Maybe the problem with the huge numbers of platform coins is simply one of what is the saturation point at which the whales of the system will choke on the new incoming assets and find they no longer have enough platform coins laying around to be able to continue throwing them willy nilly at each new asset that comes along?

That is, maybe if I convince the nations and multinationals behind the major coins of the Galactic Milieu to each throw a few million of their 21 million coins into BURST, at a sufficiently high price in BURST, we can reach a point at which these whales that we fear have loaded themselves up with "enough" of each asset that they sit back and let some actual trading between the "new" assets take place?

But how much is this going to cost them in their own coins? I guess that is the problem.

It is possible that the real solution to all this is to clone one of the platforms and divide the billions or hundreds of billions of platform-coins among all the nations and multinationals that are behind our existing coins/assets, so that they themselves are the whales of the system...

Something like HORIZON might work if done that way, but, it would mean having to maintain the thing.

-MarkM-

you're aware that if you were to say... clone BURST... your mining would be on HDDs and thus MUCH less power than mining the other coins you were mentioning. OR, you use BURST to establish your assets and see how it goes. I personally think you could use BURST exactly in the manner you're needing.

I think BURST is a platform that you may find extremely interesting whether you choose to clone it and make your own coin with which you can establish your assets, or do as irontiga mentioned and create asset to asset trading pairs with Automated Transactions on an already established 8 PetaByte network.

Also @tiga - isn't it possible to have the exchange rate automatically calculated like you've done with the blockchain? We can just set a different value for each of the 'coins' he will be using as assets on the AE.

[Irontiga]

Also @tiga - isn't it possible to have the exchange rate automatically calculated like you've done with the blockchain? We can just set a different value for each of the 'coins' he will be using as assets on the AE.

Not sure I get what ur saying....but it would be easy enough I suppose to just run a bot to automatically place buy/sell orders based on current usd/cad exchange rates or whatever.

[q327K091]

Volume is important to exchanges, not to currencies.

Depth is important though.


-MarkM-

thanks for this write up truly...meantime I added several new drives and mining at one point I would like to de-allocate BURST maybe a million to an asset to earn interest but it has to be ultra honest and trust me I apart with mined coins ultra rarely if ever

for example a decentralized casino but that is bound to produce fraud.. but that would make money.. there are other ideas till they come I mine and stash away.. cost of me mining is not that great . new drives were several hundred $ , new ASIC to compete will be several thousands.. I shall take my chances

~~~

[tanoury]

Is there something wrong with my pocminer_pool.jar?

java -cp pocminer.jar:lib/*:lib/akka/*:lib/jetty/* pocminer.POCMiner mine http://127.0.0.1:8125 http://178.62.39.204:8121

you are not using pocminer_pool.jar ...

OK, help me out here . . . how do I use pocminer_pool.jar?

[markm]

Also @tiga - isn't it possible to have the exchange rate automatically calculated like you've done with the blockchain? We can just set a different value for each of the 'coins' he will be using as assets on the AE.

Not sure I get what ur saying....but it would be easy enough I suppose to just run a bot to automatically place buy/sell orders based on current usd/cad exchange rates or whatever.

Actually that is kind of what we tried to do on Open Transactions too, the default time to live for an order was 24 hours and the order matching code was set up to cancel your own overlapping orders rather than let you buy from yourself of sell to yourself so it was relatively easy to make order-placing scripts for each asset's main market-makers that would include the currentrates.inc include file and create buy and sell offers against each of the other major assets at three scales (lot sizes), marking up or down 1% per scale. For example mark up sell price 1% on the lots-of-100000-coins market, 2% on the lots-of-10000-coins market, and 3% on the lots-of-1000-coins market. When the current rates changed enough that today's sell offer is cheaper than yesterday's buy offer the offer-overlap safety feature in the code simply deleted the previous offer the script would otherwise having been buying from itself or selling to itself, and the fact that offers expired automatically meant no complex scripting needed to keep track of your previous offers and move or remove them.

This way we could keep both ways round of each main pair filled with offers at three scales automatically while leaving the trivially small scale markets untouched for retail businesses to play with, buying cheaper on the large scale markets and selling at retail scales to consumers or other small scale users.

At times we even ran the scripts three times a day, which would create ten lots for sale and offers to buy ten lots at each of the three scales three times over in a day.

Having different scales of market with different price markups might seem strange if you think of forex or shares markets, but remember that porkbellies, cans of beans and so on can also be assets, and it is certainly normal for things such as those to be cheaper per unit when bought in lots of many units at a time.

-MarkM-

[ticote]

I still think the big difference between BURST and other currencies is the great possibilities that gives AT. therefore we must create attractive charts and so people began to learn, invest and mining BURST.

It occurred to me that if we created the first roulette was totally fairy , paying 37 times the bet instead of the 36 times you pay at casinos, we would have a world first we could advertise and hopefully attract a large number of players.

It´ll be an AT that accept bets and every a,previously fixed, number of blocks (every 5 or 10 blocks) make a calculus from scoop (or finder adrress or deadline found....) to determine the winner number. Then it pays 37 times the bet for single number bet, or 37/2 for horse bets and so on.

At start, we could fund it with donations, and establish limits to the bets that allows AT running for a long time.

I can´t code the AT, but I´m sure that there is someone in this forum who could do it, if you thinks that´s a good idea.

[duncan_idaho]

So. Crowetic decided something without community permission. I post screenshots from slack. Also look how our "PR master" is kind fo community. OPEN SOURCE SCREEMING IDIOTS. Nice.
Crowetic - You are not king of burst. Honestly you are noone. Just normal community member. Your PR "organisation" did nothing for burst. You are not dev and you will not take any decission without community voting and permission. So noone suuported you. IMO you are done.

Screenshots