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Relnarien
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August 11, 2014, 12:29:45 PM
 #21

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

I don't want people to know how many coins I have. If I send people coins from a big wallet or even an address that's being fed from a big wallet, they'd immediately know how much money I have! I just don't want people to know about that, it's not illegal to keep that for yourself! Smiley

Technically, if you reside in the US, then it is illegal under certain circumstances. Since Bitcoins are now subject to capital gains tax, then attempting to obscure your identity and/or your Bitcoin holdings with (or without) the intent of doing so in order to avoid paying tax is a legal, and possibly criminal, issue. According to the rumor mill, England and some parts of Europe might soon start taxing them as well. In the vein of this discussion, hiding one's wealth is indeed one of the primary reasons why people subscribe to coin mixing solutions, but saying that it's not illegal is not an acceptable defense if and when the government contests your reasoning.
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Bitcoins101
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August 11, 2014, 12:38:31 PM
 #22

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

I don't want people to know how many coins I have. If I send people coins from a big wallet or even an address that's being fed from a big wallet, they'd immediately know how much money I have! I just don't want people to know about that, it's not illegal to keep that for yourself! Smiley

Technically, if you reside in the US, then it is illegal under certain circumstances. Since Bitcoins are now subject to capital gains tax, then attempting to obscure your identity and/or your Bitcoin holdings with (or without) the intent of doing so in order to avoid paying tax is a legal, and possibly criminal, issue. According to the rumor mill, England and some parts of Europe might soon start taxing them as well. In the vein of this discussion, hiding one's wealth is indeed one of the primary reasons why people subscribe to coin mixing solutions, but saying that it's not illegal is not an acceptable defense if and when the government contests your reasoning.
That's really only an issue when cashing out or buying things, though. If you report that, you're not doing anything illegal but obfuscating your trail.
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August 11, 2014, 12:43:41 PM
 #23

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.
Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

Use tor or a proxy. It'll still be pretty difficult to trace it back to you if you;re careful.
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August 11, 2014, 12:55:06 PM
 #24

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.
Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

Use tor or a proxy. It'll still be pretty difficult to trace it back to you if you;re careful.
It really depends upon whether or not your BTC has ever not been anonymous. If you always use proper anonymization techniques for yourself and your own IP address and never connect your own personal info to your BTC, you're pretty much home-free. Even if they can trace it, they can't trace it to you.
mezmerizer9
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August 11, 2014, 01:46:35 PM
 #25

I really dont understand whats the point of that? Just not to be traced or is there something else? Can someone explain in details?


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jazzhot
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August 11, 2014, 01:59:11 PM
 #26

I really dont understand whats the point of that? Just not to be traced or is there something else? Can someone explain in details?

Probably because they have so many bitcoins that they don't want to be traced to avoid taxes etc.

HarmonLi
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August 11, 2014, 02:08:21 PM
 #27

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.
Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

What if you're using proxies in order to mask your tracks or appear to come from another country? I think it's rather simple to appear to be anonymous on the Internet! It would also be interesting to see which Casinos / Dice sites really are going to cooperate with the law enforcement authorities!

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August 11, 2014, 02:34:03 PM
 #28

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.
Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

What if you're using proxies in order to mask your tracks or appear to come from another country? I think it's rather simple to appear to be anonymous on the Internet! It would also be interesting to see which Casinos / Dice sites really are going to cooperate with the law enforcement authorities!
If they give the authority the send address, you must have bought it from somewhere. It can be traced back to the owner if the casino releases the information. This is possible for the casino owner to not comply with the authority but they may be forced to shut down. If you bought it from the exchange, the authority can easily ask them for identity verifications and identify you.














 

 

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DjPxH
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August 11, 2014, 02:56:03 PM
 #29

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

I don't want people to know how many coins I have. If I send people coins from a big wallet or even an address that's being fed from a big wallet, they'd immediately know how much money I have! I just don't want people to know about that, it's not illegal to keep that for yourself! Smiley

Technically, if you reside in the US, then it is illegal under certain circumstances. Since Bitcoins are now subject to capital gains tax, then attempting to obscure your identity and/or your Bitcoin holdings with (or without) the intent of doing so in order to avoid paying tax is a legal, and possibly criminal, issue. According to the rumor mill, England and some parts of Europe might soon start taxing them as well. In the vein of this discussion, hiding one's wealth is indeed one of the primary reasons why people subscribe to coin mixing solutions, but saying that it's not illegal is not an acceptable defense if and when the government contests your reasoning.

Woah, really? Wow, didn't know that. Good thing, I'm not located there Cheesy But thinking about it, from the side of the IRS or something, this makes a lot of sense. It is a suspicious behavior! Maybe the current rules and regulations just aren't made for Bitcoin and shouldn't apply!

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HarmonLi
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August 11, 2014, 02:58:47 PM
 #30

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.
Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

What if you're using proxies in order to mask your tracks or appear to come from another country? I think it's rather simple to appear to be anonymous on the Internet! It would also be interesting to see which Casinos / Dice sites really are going to cooperate with the law enforcement authorities!
If they give the authority the send address, you must have bought it from somewhere. It can be traced back to the owner if the casino releases the information. This is possible for the casino owner to not comply with the authority but they may be forced to shut down. If you bought it from the exchange, the authority can easily ask them for identity verifications and identify you.

But what if the authorities can't get hold of the casino owners? Some are operating from an obscure servers located on tropical islands or use various proxies themselves! It's not as if they're registered companies, to begin with :-/

Wilhelm
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August 11, 2014, 05:24:44 PM
 #31

Just set up three or four wallets and send the money through.
Yes they can trace it but no they cannot prove you owned the intermediate accounts.
You can then always say you bought them through localbitcoins.
Or sell your coins through localbitcoins.

Or

Create account on BTC-e using proxy or so.
Put money into account.
Trading to LTC or another shitty altcoin.
Send money to another trading site.
Trade back to BTC.
Put into your account.

Bitcoin is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get !!
kuroman
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August 11, 2014, 09:04:34 PM
 #32

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

Obviously the most legitimate use for Bitcoin mixing is to conserve privacy and improve safety for some people/companies that deals with large amount of BTCs, on the other hand, these services are most likely to be used for money laundry and for criminal activities, and this why in my opinion such services should include a service to survey and block any funds that were flagged such as in the case of the guy who lost over 1K BTC
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