Bitcoin Forum
November 16, 2019, 11:25:35 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 [31] 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 ... 503 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Scientific proof that God exists?  (Read 815631 times)
BADecker
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2184
Merit: 1127


View Profile
September 11, 2014, 07:36:42 PM
 #601


Wow giga off-topic.
I didn't mention anything about infinity. And even the monkey page doesn't talk about infinity.

The point is that there are (1000 billions)^2 = 100000000000000000000000000 stars in the universe. The probability of having the conditions applied in the 70s in at least one of planet around one of them is rather high IMO.

Sorry. Me bad for assuming that you were, in part, talking about infinity when you mentioned a webpage - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem - that has as one of its basic premises the idea of an infinite amount of time. And, in real life, it seems that you almost have to have eternity for an infinite amount of time to exist. Sorry.

Smiley

I have to ask. Do you know what the theory of evolution is? It almost sounds like you think its some kind of random pick from the tree of life.
Or that guy. ( dont remember his name) that was worried about going around for millions of years waiting to evolve a mouth so he could eat.
Thre is nothing random about evolution.
You dont have to go thru every single configuration to get to your goal like that monkey in the link

Edit: Sorry I rememberd wrong. It wasnt a mouth. It was going to the toilet. Here is the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Lt5ClxG5Q


If the idea of evolution has to do with randomness, then, because of the difficulty involved along with probability, evolution is impossible.

If the idea of evolution has to do with cause and effect, then, because of the difficulty involved, the proof for God has to do with universe/machine > machine Maker = no evolution.

If it has to do with a combination of the two (randomness at times), or with something else entirely, then we don't have a clue, and evolution theory is entirely pointless.

Smiley

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
1573946735
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573946735

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1573946735
Reply with quote  #2

1573946735
Report to moderator
1573946735
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573946735

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1573946735
Reply with quote  #2

1573946735
Report to moderator
The Bitcoin Forum is turning 10 years old! Join the community in sharing and exploring the notable posts made over the years.
1573946735
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573946735

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1573946735
Reply with quote  #2

1573946735
Report to moderator
1573946735
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1573946735

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1573946735
Reply with quote  #2

1573946735
Report to moderator
Cortex7
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 106


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 03:31:02 AM
Last edit: September 12, 2014, 04:23:43 AM by Cortex7
Merited by Foxpup (6)
 #602

Three main operators drive our evolution now:

1. selection
2. mutation
3. crossover (breeding)

The selection operator is the first hurdle to overcome, and self replication does it. Initially there is zero competition so selection is zero, any self replicating molecule makes the grade, it's bloom of growth goes unhindered.

When self replicating molecules occur, then the mutation operator is the first to happen, simple replicating systems are very noisy, many dice throws end up close to self replication but just miss the ability. Once a fairly stable self replicating system is established (with small mutation level) then a sea of fairly bland chemistry happens, in that sea it is possible, given time, that some crossover mechanism will arise as a mutation, and then boom it's lit. From there the genetic code lenghtens and gains complexity through mutation, crossover and selection.

Without mutation there is no evolution, a large radiation shower of the earth, although unpleasant for the inhabitants in the short term would be like hitting the nitro button for evolution. But it's not sustainable and the button must be released fairly quickly or everything dies. Optimal mutation rate overall is that which occurs naturally through selection.

All mutations are "tried" those that don't live long enough to breed, their mutation is lost forever.

Genetic algorithms are scientific proof of evolution, you can witness emergent complexity beyond which was programmed in to the original overall system, in fact the seed genome can be junk provided a replicating gene system with crossover and mutation is established. In a simple experiment like this you select the best solutions for breeding and cull the rest, after a modest number of generations excellent solutions can be achieved. I have used this method to tweak parameters of complex systems that would be impossible to do using a brute force try all combos approach.

In real life the selection is imposed by competition and environment.

We are physical manifestations of a trinary code that has been mutated and crossed over for a long long long time.

And that's all there is to it, a "creator" is not needed. If you crave a "god" then Sol is the closest thing we got. The suns energy drives all life chemistry, directly or indirectly.

EDIT: people don't realise how large the chemistry set (observable universe) is, this snapshot covers a tiny area of sky, no bigger than a tiny dot drawn on the thumbnail of an outstretched arm. They're not stars they're galaxies! At any one moment there are countless organic chemistry reactions happening under countless conditions and there are many many moments!

If anyone finds more awe in an old story book than this image then they need to seriously expand their mind.



BADecker
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2184
Merit: 1127


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 04:26:55 AM
 #603

Two main operators drive evolution:

1. crossover (breeding)
2. mutation

Believe it or not, once self replicating molecules occur, these operators alone lead to evolution and from them emerge great complexity.

All self replicating molecules come from other self replicating molecules. No self replicating molecules occur spontaneously from non-self replicating molecules. No self replicating molecules survive individually, on their own, without a whole lot of support molecules surrounding them to maintain them in their self replicating capacity.

Without mutation there is no evolution, a large radiation shower of the earth, although unpleasant for the inhabitants in the short term would be like hitting the nitro button for evolution.

The only evidence that we have of a high radiation shower that produced mutations are Hiroshima and Nagasaki. No advancement in the mutations has been observed. Only retardation and death has been observed.

All mutations must be "tried" those that don't live long enough to breed, their mutations are lost forever.

So far many of the mutations on earth have lived to breed, while many others have not survived. When mankind mutated from perfection in the Garden of Eden, to imperfection, he cause mutation around the whole earth. The only reason that life on earth survives this mutation long enough to continue breeding is that God has mercy on mankind, and has granted him and the world strength to live and breed.

Genetic algorithms are scientific proof of evolution, you can witness emergent complexity beyond which was programmed in to the original genome, in fact the seed genome can be junk provided a replicating gene system with crossover and mutation is established. In a simple experiment like this you select the best solutions for breeding and cull the rest, after a modest number of generations excellent solutions can be achieved. I have used this method to tweak parameters of complex systems that would be impossible to do using a brute force try all combos approach.

While this paragraph doesn't make much sense, genetic algorithms are simply patterns of life translated into the language of mathematics. They have nothing to do with evolution. They simply show the ability programmed into the nature of living organisms to survive under many adverse conditions.

In real life the selection is imposed by competition and environment.

Nowhere in nature do we see nature selecting anything. Selection has to do with choice. What we DO see is cause and effect. As far as we scientifically see, even the choices that people make are programmed into them, so that they make the choices the way they do. While the only thing that we can scientifically see is 100% programming, no selection, I can show you how there IS selection available to mankind, but you won't like what I show you.

We are physical manifestations of a trinary code that has been crossed over, mutated and tested for a long long long time.

And that's all there is to it, a creator is not needed.

Actually, it was God who planned and coded this universe. There is no evidence for anything other than this. God did it because He loved mankind, before mankind existed, and even after mankind made his own faulty choices to go against God. Going against God will only cause a person to force himself/herself out of existence. Rather, why not submit to the loving God and be saved?

Smiley

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
Cortex7
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 106


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 04:31:43 AM
 #604

Quote
All self replicating molecules come from other self replicating molecules.

one self replicating molecule soon has many neighbors if raw resources are plentiful. one is all it takes, a random throw does it. a MASSIVE vat of organic chemistry, see above image.

Quote
Nowhere in nature do we see nature selecting anything. Selection has to do with choice.

If you fall in a rough sea before breeding you have a potentially fatal swimming test ahead of you. No choice involved, guaranteed!

The simplest life forms must also endure environmental extremes etc, it's ALL a test.

Cortex7
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 106


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 04:43:08 AM
 #605

Quote
While this paragraph doesn't make much sense, genetic algorithms are simply patterns of life translated into the language of mathematics. They have nothing to do with evolution.

The pattern of life IS evolution. And you can observe it first hand if you code up a genetic algo.

Cortex7
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 106


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 04:46:26 AM
 #606

Actually, it was God who planned and coded this universe....

It's possible, I guess nothing has zero probability.

Myself I find enough awe in the observable universe to  not want/need a deity, and my "afterlife" (the part of me that is bigger than me) is ensured in the genetic code of my children.
jackjack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1025


May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 06:14:13 AM
 #607

Quote
The only evidence that we have of a high radiation shower that produced mutations are Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Do you also not think that much of the sun UV is blocked by the ozone layer? (That wasn't there since day 1)

And stop talking nonsense, the evolution through radioactivity/UV takes MILLIONS of years.
Have you ever saw a mountain come up from the ground?
No?
Do you really think that god is a better explanation for them than plate tectonics?

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2926
Merit: 2325


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
September 12, 2014, 08:17:49 AM
 #608

You guys are wasting your time.

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a brainwashed person to understand there are no gods.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports
"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
jackjack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1025


May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 08:29:37 AM
 #609

You guys are wasting your time.

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a brainwashed person to realize there are no gods.
Grin

I personally know it's a waste of time. But I enjoy it.
Seeing every contortion, every contradiction, every unanswered question and every subject change is priceless.

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
Decksperiment
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 12:44:55 PM
 #610

This quote is a falacy:

"Nowhere in nature do we see nature selecting anything."

Do you see birds making nests underwater? No, they select tree's or buildings, and before buildings, where did the birds select? In a natural disaster like say a firestorm, Wildlife select "run away".. Does water, that can clearly flow in all directions, select 'up'? No, because it cant, unless we remove the gravity of the situation..

Natural selection.. exists, or we would not be able to, since it's safe to assume, we are of nature in itself.

"I can show you how there IS selection available to mankind, but you won't like what I show you."

I may not like what you show, but please do..?
jackjack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1025


May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 01:11:38 PM
 #611

This quote is a falacy:

"Nowhere in nature do we see nature selecting anything."

Do you see birds making nests underwater? No, they select tree's or buildings, and before buildings, where did the birds select? In a natural disaster like say a firestorm, Wildlife select "run away".. Does water, that can clearly flow in all directions, select 'up'? No, because it cant, unless we remove the gravity of the situation..

Natural selection.. exists, or we would not be able to, since it's safe to assume, we are of nature in itself.

"I can show you how there IS selection available to mankind, but you won't like what I show you."

I may not like what you show, but please do..?


Actually it's not selection at all.
Birds wanting to make their nests underwater are all dead. People going into the fire are also all dead.
So yeah they don't pass their innate behaviors to their offspring.

It's not selection as in "animals select their preferred actions", it's selection as in "the animals with the better actions survive"

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
Decksperiment
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 01:15:11 PM
 #612

This quote is a falacy:

"Nowhere in nature do we see nature selecting anything."

Do you see birds making nests underwater? No, they select tree's or buildings, and before buildings, where did the birds select? In a natural disaster like say a firestorm, Wildlife select "run away".. Does water, that can clearly flow in all directions, select 'up'? No, because it cant, unless we remove the gravity of the situation..

Natural selection.. exists, or we would not be able to, since it's safe to assume, we are of nature in itself.

"I can show you how there IS selection available to mankind, but you won't like what I show you."

I may not like what you show, but please do..?


Actually it's not selection at all.
Birds wanting to make their nests underwater are all dead. People going into the fire are also all dead.
So yeah they don't pass their innate behaviors to their offspring.

I guess your mum had you forced on her as opposed to choosing?
jackjack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1025


May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 01:19:24 PM
 #613

This quote is a falacy:

"Nowhere in nature do we see nature selecting anything."

Do you see birds making nests underwater? No, they select tree's or buildings, and before buildings, where did the birds select? In a natural disaster like say a firestorm, Wildlife select "run away".. Does water, that can clearly flow in all directions, select 'up'? No, because it cant, unless we remove the gravity of the situation..

Natural selection.. exists, or we would not be able to, since it's safe to assume, we are of nature in itself.

"I can show you how there IS selection available to mankind, but you won't like what I show you."

I may not like what you show, but please do..?


Actually it's not selection at all.
Birds wanting to make their nests underwater are all dead. People going into the fire are also all dead.
So yeah they don't pass their innate behaviors to their offspring.

I guess your mum had you forced on her as opposed to choosing?

And that's exactly why Humans are less affected by evolution: we change our environment, not the other way around
Animal mums don't chose at all.

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
Decksperiment
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 01:40:01 PM
 #614

This thread is now just a waste of time, Suddenly animals cant choose? I mean, c'mon, almost everything in existance, has been discussed here using less than 60 years of knowledge, and a shite book for those who impose by trying to save people from NOTHING.

We die, period, and no-one ever did come back from the dead.

At the end, we die, only then will we wish we knew what we already know.

We are fucked over by these religions period. Your kids are sexually abused, and your families are attacked and killed by these people, while they keep all the riches. (spoils of war) you POOR fuckers. (me too lol)

When will the church divy up all that gold and give each starving child enough buy the land they can plant food on? NEVER, cause they're to busy SAVING. (for themselves)

In fact, when will they do anything instead of getting their bashers to do it for them?

Cause they're all the fuckin same.. COWARDS.

If you had a choice, forced slavery, or belief in god, I know what you'd choose, cause you already have.. you chose slavery, whatever your excuse.
SpongeBTCants
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 02:52:51 PM
 #615

It cannot be proved or disproved scientifically, waste of time imo.
BADecker
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2184
Merit: 1127


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 02:58:56 PM
 #616

This thread is now just a waste of time, Suddenly animals cant choose? I mean, c'mon, almost everything in existance, has been discussed here using less than 60 years of knowledge, and a shite book for those who impose by trying to save people from NOTHING.

We die, period, and no-one ever did come back from the dead.

At the end, we die, only then will we wish we knew what we already know.

We are fucked over by these religions period. Your kids are sexually abused, and your families are attacked and killed by these people, while they keep all the riches. (spoils of war) you POOR fuckers. (me too lol)

When will the church divy up all that gold and give each starving child enough buy the land they can plant food on? NEVER, cause they're to busy SAVING. (for themselves)

In fact, when will they do anything instead of getting their bashers to do it for them?

Cause they're all the fuckin same.. COWARDS.

If you had a choice, forced slavery, or belief in god, I know what you'd choose, cause you already have.. you chose slavery, whatever your excuse.

Both animals and people appear to make choices. But the choices that we all make are based entirely on stimulus of some kind. Often the stimulus is made up of complex stimuli, that nobody could track down and pinpoint - almost in the same way nobody could ever track all the molecules of air that make a leaf blow this way or that in the wind, and the way that they work to make the leaf move. It's all cause and effect, action and reaction. The only way in which it is not cause and effect is in people. It works like this.

Nobody, no person, knows for a fact what will happen, even in the next second. We trust that things will happen in certain ways, based on our experience. Yet, sometimes our trust is misplaced. If it weren't, there wouldn't be any car accidents, or people killed in airliner crashes.

The thing that we trust in, is our down-deep knowledge of God. And God measures our trust in Him and makes tweaks to things in life, so that it appears that we have made choices that are different than simple cause and effect. And they ARE different than simple cause and effect. Yet, they are God's tweaks, based on the way He reads the trust and faith we have in Him.

NOTE: Like it or not, way down deep, you trust in God, and you have a certain amount of faith in Him. If you didn't, you'd be dead. What I can't understand is why people would rather ignore God, thereby committing slow suicide (It takes a long time to quench the faith God put into your heart of every person.), than accept Him and live?

Smiley

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
BADecker
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2184
Merit: 1127


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 03:06:54 PM
 #617

Quote
The only evidence that we have of a high radiation shower that produced mutations are Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Do you also not think that much of the sun UV is blocked by the ozone layer? (That wasn't there since day 1)

And stop talking nonsense, the evolution through radioactivity/UV takes MILLIONS of years.
Have you ever saw a mountain come up from the ground?
No?
Do you really think that god is a better explanation for them than plate tectonics?

Picky, picky, picky. Cortex7 simply said, "... a high radiation shower... ." The Hiroshima and Nagasaki atom bombs WERE a high radiation shower compared with the way we are hit by cosmic and UV radiation. What are you, some kind of nut?

Smiley

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
BADecker
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2184
Merit: 1127


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 03:16:22 PM
 #618

Actually, it was God who planned and coded this universe....

It's possible, I guess nothing has zero probability.

Myself I find enough awe in the observable universe to  not want/need a deity, and my "afterlife" (the part of me that is bigger than me) is ensured in the genetic code of my children.

But we are so close to zero probability regarding the machine of the universe having no Machine-Maker, that it might as well be zero probability. Take a look sometime, at the odds where probability scientists consider probability to be an impossibility, even though it is technically still probability. The probability that the universe or life could simply happen falls into these realms of probability that are considered by scientists to be impossible. In fact, the probability that life could have happened without a Maker is way, way, way, way, way, way, beyond the simple impossibility limits that scientists place on probability.

Smiley

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
intighet
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 83
Merit: 10

mene mene tekel upharsin


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 03:33:31 PM
 #619

You guys are wasting your time.

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a brainwashed person to understand there are no gods.

hah Cheesy an apt reference Wink

/thread

Malus pro bono surrepat, et bonus pro malo displiceat; fallaces enim sunt rerum species, quibus credidimus.
BADecker
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2184
Merit: 1127


View Profile
September 12, 2014, 03:47:31 PM
 #620

You guys are wasting your time.

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a brainwashed person to understand there are no gods.

hah Cheesy an apt reference Wink

/thread

You forget the rest of it. Jesus said, but nothing is impossible for God. By the time you get through the eye of the needle and see that God is there, you will already be in the judgment, and there will be no chance to change your mind and believe. Why not? Here's why not.

You can only believe in things that you are not sure of. When you are sure of something that you know, you don't believe it any longer. You are beyond that... beyond simply having to believe it. You KNOW it.

Once you are in the judgment, you will KNOW that God exists. Yet you can only be saved by faith = believing. You won't have any chance to believe any longer. You will NOT be saved if you haven't believed BEFORE you get to the judgment, because in the judgment you will KNOW God exists.

Smiley

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 [31] 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 ... 503 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!