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Author Topic: Scientific proof that God exists?  (Read 801054 times)
qwik2learn
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September 14, 2017, 04:06:18 PM
 #8181


All I was saying was on the subject of the lack of the reasons to replace the Bible.
I gave many reasons and arguments and they were not adequately addressed. The primary one to consider is whether a modern understanding of the content-source problem supports the claims about the "inerrant" Bible. I showed that the moral content of that book is inadequate and that Paul adulterated the teachings.


The main concern is the lies that were added to the Bible which people like you try to justify with fallacious reasoning, lies like the stories mentioned on evilbible.com and all of the writings of Paul as well as his new religion of "Jesus Salvation" (read the book by Zuesse for details).
The other primary concern is similar: true gospels and teachings that were left out and practically forgotten. It is ignorance to stick to the version of events that authorities want you to accept in spite of the evidence. By the way, Jesus did instruct us to be like a little child who is always asking "why?".
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qwik2learn
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September 15, 2017, 04:11:57 AM
 #8182

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided
"Testable" and "observable"; for example, mediumship "is the only phenomenon that is directly relevant to the survival problem that can be produced and observed under conditions of experimental control". That is interesting because it means there is evidence and a means to study it scientifically.

I posted a test and observations of telekinesis seen on camera and on EEG, but skeptics in this thread tried to dismiss the scientific evidence:
http://eegym.com/can-eeg-tell-if-telekinesis-is-a-magicians-trick-2/

Skeptics in this thread see no fault in dismissing science that does not fit their own made-up definition.
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September 15, 2017, 07:56:07 AM
 #8183

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided
"Testable" and "observable"; for example, mediumship "is the only phenomenon that is directly relevant to the survival problem that can be produced and observed under conditions of experimental control". That is interesting because it means there is evidence and a means to study it scientifically.

I posted a test and observations of telekinesis seen on camera and on EEG, but skeptics in this thread tried to dismiss the scientific evidence:
http://eegym.com/can-eeg-tell-if-telekinesis-is-a-magicians-trick-2/

Skeptics in this thread see no fault in dismissing science that does not fit their own made-up definition.

I don't anything about the EEGym-Company, so I can't say how trustworthy they are. But proofing telekinesis has nothing to do with proofing the existence of god. So even if your article is 100% true, it doesn't proof anything regarding our god question here.
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September 15, 2017, 08:13:24 AM
 #8184

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided

This is exactly why I use basic, foundational science to show that God exists.

Everyone understands basic entropy a little. We all can see it in old age. Scientific laws regarding it are readily accessible in books and the internet. Scientific theory that tries to explain how it works, still doesn't understand it. But entropy is observable all around us.

Certainly science understands complexity more than anyone. Medical science has been trying to cure all kinds of diseases for ages. Nature is so extremely complex, that science has been failing with many of its cures. If science has been able to extend the length of lives of people, it isn't by much. Consider billionaire David Rockefeller. He died at age 101. If science had been able to keep anyone alive and young, he would have paid for it with his $billions.

Cause and effect is the basics of science. Scientists continually try to find the scientific causes that make/made everything that exists. Whatever they research, they continually look for the cause of it. No spontaneous generation of anything has ever been found. There is always a cause for something.

These 3 - cause and effect, complexity, entropy - point to the existence of God. How does it work? Like this.

Entropy shows that there was a beginning. If there had been no beginning, and if everything had been going on as it is forever, entropy would have destroyed all complexity long ago. Because the complexity is as great as it is, there was a beginning, and not too far in the past.

Entropy also shows that complexity is running down. In general, the past was more complex than what exists today. We do not find complexity coming out of something less complex, except temporarily. Now and again a couple of low intelligence will be parents of a genius. But the genius genes were inside the parents, even though they were not evident in the parents themselves. Complexity is always waning because of entropy.

Cause and effect is the greatest. Everything has a cause... or many causes. And the causes are effects of other causes. Like entropy and complexity, cause and effect are all-pervading... present throughout the whole system of nature.

In the same way that you can cause something complex to happen - if you think about it and plan it out and do it through cause and effect - even so nature has a complex plan built into it. How often do you throw a handful of sand into the air, and reap something complex that you can understand? The way the sand lands may produce a complex pattern, but the complexity of even that is beyond understand. It takes great working among people to produce complexity that is slightly great - automobile, computer, rocket, good medicine, etc.

The point? Whatever set cause and effect into place, to produce the complexity of life through essentially throwing a handful of sand into the air, must be extremely complex within itself. And since the complexity in us includes intelligence, emotion, thinking, feeling, and a host of other complex things, such complexity must be withing the "genetics" of whatever started cause and effect.

The best understanding of what this starter of cause and effect is, is found in our word "God."

Cool
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September 15, 2017, 09:12:18 AM
 #8185

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided

This is exactly why I use basic, foundational science to show that God exists.

Everyone understands basic entropy a little. We all can see it in old age. Scientific laws regarding it are readily accessible in books and the internet. Scientific theory that tries to explain how it works, still doesn't understand it. But entropy is observable all around us.

Certainly science understands complexity more than anyone. Medical science has been trying to cure all kinds of diseases for ages. Nature is so extremely complex, that science has been failing with many of its cures. If science has been able to extend the length of lives of people, it isn't by much. Consider billionaire David Rockefeller. He died at age 101. If science had been able to keep anyone alive and young, he would have paid for it with his $billions.

Cause and effect is the basics of science. Scientists continually try to find the scientific causes that make/made everything that exists. Whatever they research, they continually look for the cause of it. No spontaneous generation of anything has ever been found. There is always a cause for something.

These 3 - cause and effect, complexity, entropy - point to the existence of God. How does it work? Like this.

Entropy shows that there was a beginning. If there had been no beginning, and if everything had been going on as it is forever, entropy would have destroyed all complexity long ago. Because the complexity is as great as it is, there was a beginning, and not too far in the past.

Entropy also shows that complexity is running down. In general, the past was more complex than what exists today. We do not find complexity coming out of something less complex, except temporarily. Now and again a couple of low intelligence will be parents of a genius. But the genius genes were inside the parents, even though they were not evident in the parents themselves. Complexity is always waning because of entropy.

Cause and effect is the greatest. Everything has a cause... or many causes. And the causes are effects of other causes. Like entropy and complexity, cause and effect are all-pervading... present throughout the whole system of nature.

In the same way that you can cause something complex to happen - if you think about it and plan it out and do it through cause and effect - even so nature has a complex plan built into it. How often do you throw a handful of sand into the air, and reap something complex that you can understand? The way the sand lands may produce a complex pattern, but the complexity of even that is beyond understand. It takes great working among people to produce complexity that is slightly great - automobile, computer, rocket, good medicine, etc.

The point? Whatever set cause and effect into place, to produce the complexity of life through essentially throwing a handful of sand into the air, must be extremely complex within itself. And since the complexity in us includes intelligence, emotion, thinking, feeling, and a host of other complex things, such complexity must be withing the "genetics" of whatever started cause and effect.

The best understanding of what this starter of cause and effect is, is found in our word "God."

Cool

How was the past more complex in general? Humans were far less complex 1000 years ago.



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HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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September 15, 2017, 09:18:13 AM
 #8186

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided

This is exactly why I use basic, foundational science to show that God exists.

Everyone understands basic entropy a little. We all can see it in old age. Scientific laws regarding it are readily accessible in books and the internet. Scientific theory that tries to explain how it works, still doesn't understand it. But entropy is observable all around us.

Certainly science understands complexity more than anyone. Medical science has been trying to cure all kinds of diseases for ages. Nature is so extremely complex, that science has been failing with many of its cures. If science has been able to extend the length of lives of people, it isn't by much. Consider billionaire David Rockefeller. He died at age 101. If science had been able to keep anyone alive and young, he would have paid for it with his $billions.

Cause and effect is the basics of science. Scientists continually try to find the scientific causes that make/made everything that exists. Whatever they research, they continually look for the cause of it. No spontaneous generation of anything has ever been found. There is always a cause for something.

These 3 - cause and effect, complexity, entropy - point to the existence of God. How does it work? Like this.

Entropy shows that there was a beginning. If there had been no beginning, and if everything had been going on as it is forever, entropy would have destroyed all complexity long ago. Because the complexity is as great as it is, there was a beginning, and not too far in the past.

Entropy also shows that complexity is running down. In general, the past was more complex than what exists today. We do not find complexity coming out of something less complex, except temporarily. Now and again a couple of low intelligence will be parents of a genius. But the genius genes were inside the parents, even though they were not evident in the parents themselves. Complexity is always waning because of entropy.

Cause and effect is the greatest. Everything has a cause... or many causes. And the causes are effects of other causes. Like entropy and complexity, cause and effect are all-pervading... present throughout the whole system of nature.

In the same way that you can cause something complex to happen - if you think about it and plan it out and do it through cause and effect - even so nature has a complex plan built into it. How often do you throw a handful of sand into the air, and reap something complex that you can understand? The way the sand lands may produce a complex pattern, but the complexity of even that is beyond understand. It takes great working among people to produce complexity that is slightly great - automobile, computer, rocket, good medicine, etc.

The point? Whatever set cause and effect into place, to produce the complexity of life through essentially throwing a handful of sand into the air, must be extremely complex within itself. And since the complexity in us includes intelligence, emotion, thinking, feeling, and a host of other complex things, such complexity must be withing the "genetics" of whatever started cause and effect.

The best understanding of what this starter of cause and effect is, is found in our word "God."

Cool

How was the past more complex in general? Humans were far less complex 1000 years ago.

Entropy breaks complexity down. Humans were not less complex 1000 years ago. They were simply looking in other directions than they are today.

Cool
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September 15, 2017, 09:22:38 AM
 #8187

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided

This is exactly why I use basic, foundational science to show that God exists.

Everyone understands basic entropy a little. We all can see it in old age. Scientific laws regarding it are readily accessible in books and the internet. Scientific theory that tries to explain how it works, still doesn't understand it. But entropy is observable all around us.

Certainly science understands complexity more than anyone. Medical science has been trying to cure all kinds of diseases for ages. Nature is so extremely complex, that science has been failing with many of its cures. If science has been able to extend the length of lives of people, it isn't by much. Consider billionaire David Rockefeller. He died at age 101. If science had been able to keep anyone alive and young, he would have paid for it with his $billions.

Cause and effect is the basics of science. Scientists continually try to find the scientific causes that make/made everything that exists. Whatever they research, they continually look for the cause of it. No spontaneous generation of anything has ever been found. There is always a cause for something.

These 3 - cause and effect, complexity, entropy - point to the existence of God. How does it work? Like this.

Entropy shows that there was a beginning. If there had been no beginning, and if everything had been going on as it is forever, entropy would have destroyed all complexity long ago. Because the complexity is as great as it is, there was a beginning, and not too far in the past.

Entropy also shows that complexity is running down. In general, the past was more complex than what exists today. We do not find complexity coming out of something less complex, except temporarily. Now and again a couple of low intelligence will be parents of a genius. But the genius genes were inside the parents, even though they were not evident in the parents themselves. Complexity is always waning because of entropy.

Cause and effect is the greatest. Everything has a cause... or many causes. And the causes are effects of other causes. Like entropy and complexity, cause and effect are all-pervading... present throughout the whole system of nature.

In the same way that you can cause something complex to happen - if you think about it and plan it out and do it through cause and effect - even so nature has a complex plan built into it. How often do you throw a handful of sand into the air, and reap something complex that you can understand? The way the sand lands may produce a complex pattern, but the complexity of even that is beyond understand. It takes great working among people to produce complexity that is slightly great - automobile, computer, rocket, good medicine, etc.

The point? Whatever set cause and effect into place, to produce the complexity of life through essentially throwing a handful of sand into the air, must be extremely complex within itself. And since the complexity in us includes intelligence, emotion, thinking, feeling, and a host of other complex things, such complexity must be withing the "genetics" of whatever started cause and effect.

The best understanding of what this starter of cause and effect is, is found in our word "God."

Cool

You are talking about theories and assumptions. Scientific proof means, it is testable or measurable in anyway ... so if I do A, I always get B as Result. If I say - if I do A, it SHOULD get me B ... it is only a theory. You still have to proof it. If you can't proof it ... like in this case ... it is still a theory.
We still cannot completely explain the big bang ... so god COULD have been the source for that. But that is just a theory. In the past people thought that thunder is also created by god, because they had no tools and the knowledge to explain this phenomenon.
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September 15, 2017, 09:35:56 AM
 #8188

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided

This is exactly why I use basic, foundational science to show that God exists.

Everyone understands basic entropy a little. We all can see it in old age. Scientific laws regarding it are readily accessible in books and the internet. Scientific theory that tries to explain how it works, still doesn't understand it. But entropy is observable all around us.

Certainly science understands complexity more than anyone. Medical science has been trying to cure all kinds of diseases for ages. Nature is so extremely complex, that science has been failing with many of its cures. If science has been able to extend the length of lives of people, it isn't by much. Consider billionaire David Rockefeller. He died at age 101. If science had been able to keep anyone alive and young, he would have paid for it with his $billions.

Cause and effect is the basics of science. Scientists continually try to find the scientific causes that make/made everything that exists. Whatever they research, they continually look for the cause of it. No spontaneous generation of anything has ever been found. There is always a cause for something.

These 3 - cause and effect, complexity, entropy - point to the existence of God. How does it work? Like this.

Entropy shows that there was a beginning. If there had been no beginning, and if everything had been going on as it is forever, entropy would have destroyed all complexity long ago. Because the complexity is as great as it is, there was a beginning, and not too far in the past.

Entropy also shows that complexity is running down. In general, the past was more complex than what exists today. We do not find complexity coming out of something less complex, except temporarily. Now and again a couple of low intelligence will be parents of a genius. But the genius genes were inside the parents, even though they were not evident in the parents themselves. Complexity is always waning because of entropy.

Cause and effect is the greatest. Everything has a cause... or many causes. And the causes are effects of other causes. Like entropy and complexity, cause and effect are all-pervading... present throughout the whole system of nature.

In the same way that you can cause something complex to happen - if you think about it and plan it out and do it through cause and effect - even so nature has a complex plan built into it. How often do you throw a handful of sand into the air, and reap something complex that you can understand? The way the sand lands may produce a complex pattern, but the complexity of even that is beyond understand. It takes great working among people to produce complexity that is slightly great - automobile, computer, rocket, good medicine, etc.

The point? Whatever set cause and effect into place, to produce the complexity of life through essentially throwing a handful of sand into the air, must be extremely complex within itself. And since the complexity in us includes intelligence, emotion, thinking, feeling, and a host of other complex things, such complexity must be withing the "genetics" of whatever started cause and effect.

The best understanding of what this starter of cause and effect is, is found in our word "God."

Cool

You are talking about theories and assumptions. Scientific proof means, it is testable or measurable in anyway ... so if I do A, I always get B as Result. If I say - if I do A, it SHOULD get me B ... it is only a theory. You still have to proof it. If you can't proof it ... like in this case ... it is still a theory.
We still cannot completely explain the big bang ... so god COULD have been the source for that. But that is just a theory. In the past people thought that thunder is also created by god, because they had no tools and the knowledge to explain this phenomenon.

Cause and effect is overwhelming throughout nature, and nothing to contradict it has ever been found.

Entropy is overwhelming throughout nature, and nothing to contradict it has ever been found.

Complexity, is extremely great. Even simplicity in nature is extremely complex.

All scientific experiments contain these 3 to some extent... even if the scientist doesn't state it in his white papers. How much more proof can you find anywhere for anything?

Cool
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September 15, 2017, 09:59:15 AM
 #8189

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided

This is exactly why I use basic, foundational science to show that God exists.

Everyone understands basic entropy a little. We all can see it in old age. Scientific laws regarding it are readily accessible in books and the internet. Scientific theory that tries to explain how it works, still doesn't understand it. But entropy is observable all around us.

Certainly science understands complexity more than anyone. Medical science has been trying to cure all kinds of diseases for ages. Nature is so extremely complex, that science has been failing with many of its cures. If science has been able to extend the length of lives of people, it isn't by much. Consider billionaire David Rockefeller. He died at age 101. If science had been able to keep anyone alive and young, he would have paid for it with his $billions.

Cause and effect is the basics of science. Scientists continually try to find the scientific causes that make/made everything that exists. Whatever they research, they continually look for the cause of it. No spontaneous generation of anything has ever been found. There is always a cause for something.

These 3 - cause and effect, complexity, entropy - point to the existence of God. How does it work? Like this.

Entropy shows that there was a beginning. If there had been no beginning, and if everything had been going on as it is forever, entropy would have destroyed all complexity long ago. Because the complexity is as great as it is, there was a beginning, and not too far in the past.

Entropy also shows that complexity is running down. In general, the past was more complex than what exists today. We do not find complexity coming out of something less complex, except temporarily. Now and again a couple of low intelligence will be parents of a genius. But the genius genes were inside the parents, even though they were not evident in the parents themselves. Complexity is always waning because of entropy.

Cause and effect is the greatest. Everything has a cause... or many causes. And the causes are effects of other causes. Like entropy and complexity, cause and effect are all-pervading... present throughout the whole system of nature.

In the same way that you can cause something complex to happen - if you think about it and plan it out and do it through cause and effect - even so nature has a complex plan built into it. How often do you throw a handful of sand into the air, and reap something complex that you can understand? The way the sand lands may produce a complex pattern, but the complexity of even that is beyond understand. It takes great working among people to produce complexity that is slightly great - automobile, computer, rocket, good medicine, etc.

The point? Whatever set cause and effect into place, to produce the complexity of life through essentially throwing a handful of sand into the air, must be extremely complex within itself. And since the complexity in us includes intelligence, emotion, thinking, feeling, and a host of other complex things, such complexity must be withing the "genetics" of whatever started cause and effect.

The best understanding of what this starter of cause and effect is, is found in our word "God."

Cool

You are talking about theories and assumptions. Scientific proof means, it is testable or measurable in anyway ... so if I do A, I always get B as Result. If I say - if I do A, it SHOULD get me B ... it is only a theory. You still have to proof it. If you can't proof it ... like in this case ... it is still a theory.
We still cannot completely explain the big bang ... so god COULD have been the source for that. But that is just a theory. In the past people thought that thunder is also created by god, because they had no tools and the knowledge to explain this phenomenon.

Cause and effect is overwhelming throughout nature, and nothing to contradict it has ever been found.

Entropy is overwhelming throughout nature, and nothing to contradict it has ever been found.

Complexity, is extremely great. Even simplicity in nature is extremely complex.

All scientific experiments contain these 3 to some extent... even if the scientist doesn't state it in his white papers. How much more proof can you find anywhere for anything?

Cool

Well, nowadays you can proof actually tons of stuff. You are talking about some "groundwork" in science. Of course everything starts with a theory ... but you still have to proof it. Of course nowadays there are lot of things we can't just proof ... and there are only educated guesses from experts. But that is still no scientific proof ... and it doesn't matter how sure the people are.
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September 15, 2017, 10:22:03 AM
 #8190

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided

This is exactly why I use basic, foundational science to show that God exists.

Everyone understands basic entropy a little. We all can see it in old age. Scientific laws regarding it are readily accessible in books and the internet. Scientific theory that tries to explain how it works, still doesn't understand it. But entropy is observable all around us.

Certainly science understands complexity more than anyone. Medical science has been trying to cure all kinds of diseases for ages. Nature is so extremely complex, that science has been failing with many of its cures. If science has been able to extend the length of lives of people, it isn't by much. Consider billionaire David Rockefeller. He died at age 101. If science had been able to keep anyone alive and young, he would have paid for it with his $billions.

Cause and effect is the basics of science. Scientists continually try to find the scientific causes that make/made everything that exists. Whatever they research, they continually look for the cause of it. No spontaneous generation of anything has ever been found. There is always a cause for something.

These 3 - cause and effect, complexity, entropy - point to the existence of God. How does it work? Like this.

Entropy shows that there was a beginning. If there had been no beginning, and if everything had been going on as it is forever, entropy would have destroyed all complexity long ago. Because the complexity is as great as it is, there was a beginning, and not too far in the past.

Entropy also shows that complexity is running down. In general, the past was more complex than what exists today. We do not find complexity coming out of something less complex, except temporarily. Now and again a couple of low intelligence will be parents of a genius. But the genius genes were inside the parents, even though they were not evident in the parents themselves. Complexity is always waning because of entropy.

Cause and effect is the greatest. Everything has a cause... or many causes. And the causes are effects of other causes. Like entropy and complexity, cause and effect are all-pervading... present throughout the whole system of nature.

In the same way that you can cause something complex to happen - if you think about it and plan it out and do it through cause and effect - even so nature has a complex plan built into it. How often do you throw a handful of sand into the air, and reap something complex that you can understand? The way the sand lands may produce a complex pattern, but the complexity of even that is beyond understand. It takes great working among people to produce complexity that is slightly great - automobile, computer, rocket, good medicine, etc.

The point? Whatever set cause and effect into place, to produce the complexity of life through essentially throwing a handful of sand into the air, must be extremely complex within itself. And since the complexity in us includes intelligence, emotion, thinking, feeling, and a host of other complex things, such complexity must be withing the "genetics" of whatever started cause and effect.

The best understanding of what this starter of cause and effect is, is found in our word "God."

Cool

You are talking about theories and assumptions. Scientific proof means, it is testable or measurable in anyway ... so if I do A, I always get B as Result. If I say - if I do A, it SHOULD get me B ... it is only a theory. You still have to proof it. If you can't proof it ... like in this case ... it is still a theory.
We still cannot completely explain the big bang ... so god COULD have been the source for that. But that is just a theory. In the past people thought that thunder is also created by god, because they had no tools and the knowledge to explain this phenomenon.

Cause and effect is overwhelming throughout nature, and nothing to contradict it has ever been found.

Entropy is overwhelming throughout nature, and nothing to contradict it has ever been found.

Complexity, is extremely great. Even simplicity in nature is extremely complex.

All scientific experiments contain these 3 to some extent... even if the scientist doesn't state it in his white papers. How much more proof can you find anywhere for anything?

Cool

You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.



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September 15, 2017, 01:52:26 PM
 #8191


You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Cool
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September 15, 2017, 01:55:45 PM
 #8192

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided

This is exactly why I use basic, foundational science to show that God exists.

Everyone understands basic entropy a little. We all can see it in old age. Scientific laws regarding it are readily accessible in books and the internet. Scientific theory that tries to explain how it works, still doesn't understand it. But entropy is observable all around us.

Certainly science understands complexity more than anyone. Medical science has been trying to cure all kinds of diseases for ages. Nature is so extremely complex, that science has been failing with many of its cures. If science has been able to extend the length of lives of people, it isn't by much. Consider billionaire David Rockefeller. He died at age 101. If science had been able to keep anyone alive and young, he would have paid for it with his $billions.

Cause and effect is the basics of science. Scientists continually try to find the scientific causes that make/made everything that exists. Whatever they research, they continually look for the cause of it. No spontaneous generation of anything has ever been found. There is always a cause for something.

These 3 - cause and effect, complexity, entropy - point to the existence of God. How does it work? Like this.

Entropy shows that there was a beginning. If there had been no beginning, and if everything had been going on as it is forever, entropy would have destroyed all complexity long ago. Because the complexity is as great as it is, there was a beginning, and not too far in the past.

Entropy also shows that complexity is running down. In general, the past was more complex than what exists today. We do not find complexity coming out of something less complex, except temporarily. Now and again a couple of low intelligence will be parents of a genius. But the genius genes were inside the parents, even though they were not evident in the parents themselves. Complexity is always waning because of entropy.

Cause and effect is the greatest. Everything has a cause... or many causes. And the causes are effects of other causes. Like entropy and complexity, cause and effect are all-pervading... present throughout the whole system of nature.

In the same way that you can cause something complex to happen - if you think about it and plan it out and do it through cause and effect - even so nature has a complex plan built into it. How often do you throw a handful of sand into the air, and reap something complex that you can understand? The way the sand lands may produce a complex pattern, but the complexity of even that is beyond understand. It takes great working among people to produce complexity that is slightly great - automobile, computer, rocket, good medicine, etc.

The point? Whatever set cause and effect into place, to produce the complexity of life through essentially throwing a handful of sand into the air, must be extremely complex within itself. And since the complexity in us includes intelligence, emotion, thinking, feeling, and a host of other complex things, such complexity must be withing the "genetics" of whatever started cause and effect.

The best understanding of what this starter of cause and effect is, is found in our word "God."

Cool

You are talking about theories and assumptions. Scientific proof means, it is testable or measurable in anyway ... so if I do A, I always get B as Result. If I say - if I do A, it SHOULD get me B ... it is only a theory. You still have to proof it. If you can't proof it ... like in this case ... it is still a theory.
We still cannot completely explain the big bang ... so god COULD have been the source for that. But that is just a theory. In the past people thought that thunder is also created by god, because they had no tools and the knowledge to explain this phenomenon.

Cause and effect is overwhelming throughout nature, and nothing to contradict it has ever been found.

Entropy is overwhelming throughout nature, and nothing to contradict it has ever been found.

Complexity, is extremely great. Even simplicity in nature is extremely complex.

All scientific experiments contain these 3 to some extent... even if the scientist doesn't state it in his white papers. How much more proof can you find anywhere for anything?

Cool

Well, nowadays you can proof actually tons of stuff. You are talking about some "groundwork" in science. Of course everything starts with a theory ... but you still have to proof it. Of course nowadays there are lot of things we can't just proof ... and there are only educated guesses from experts. But that is still no scientific proof ... and it doesn't matter how sure the people are.


Proof doesn't need a formal theory to precede it.

Having proof for something doesn't mean that everyone is going to take the time to understand the proof.

Cool
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September 15, 2017, 01:57:28 PM
 #8193


You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Cool

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.



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September 15, 2017, 01:58:49 PM
 #8194

I think that the mission here is to prove that he *exists*, not that he is not. Unless it will be an endless thing.
Can you prove that the spaghetti monster is exist? NO. So it means it is? NO.

In addition, the proof is not to prove details about God. It is to prove that He exists.

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September 15, 2017, 02:06:42 PM
 #8195


You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Cool

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

Cool
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September 15, 2017, 02:13:51 PM
 #8196


You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Cool

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

Cool

So I'm guessing the creator of god has to be much more complex as well, right?



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September 15, 2017, 02:22:20 PM
 #8197


You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Cool

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

Cool

So I'm guessing the creator of god has to be much more complex as well, right?

You are the one that said you are guessing. If you are really guessing, than what you posted is right. If you are not, then it is wrong.

Is it not time to get on topic and discuss the scientific proof for (or against) God? Like many others, you have lots of room in the forum to post all kinds of religious threads about God. Why continue to do it in this one scientific thread about God? Are you really trying to state that science is a religion for you?

Cool
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September 15, 2017, 03:07:35 PM
 #8198

I am a little bit surprised why this is even a thing. Despite if god exists or not ... there can't be a SCIENTIFIC proof for the existence.

You make good points... unfortunately there can be scientific proof if you make up your own definition of "SCIENTIFIC".   Undecided
"Testable" and "observable"; for example, mediumship "is the only phenomenon that is directly relevant to the survival problem that can be produced and observed under conditions of experimental control". That is interesting because it means there is evidence and a means to study it scientifically.

I posted a test and observations of telekinesis seen on camera and on EEG, but skeptics in this thread tried to dismiss the scientific evidence:
http://eegym.com/can-eeg-tell-if-telekinesis-is-a-magicians-trick-2/

Skeptics in this thread see no fault in dismissing science that does not fit their own made-up definition.

I don't anything about the EEGym-Company, so I can't say how trustworthy they are. But proofing telekinesis has nothing to do with proofing the existence of god. So even if your article is 100% true, it doesn't proof anything regarding our god question here.
It would prove that skeptics are dishonest when discussing the parapsychology research, and particularly survival research.
More examples of skeptical misdirection:
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/skeptical_misdirection
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September 15, 2017, 03:17:33 PM
 #8199


You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Cool

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

Cool

So I'm guessing the creator of god has to be much more complex as well, right?

You are the one that said you are guessing. If you are really guessing, than what you posted is right. If you are not, then it is wrong.

Is it not time to get on topic and discuss the scientific proof for (or against) God? Like many others, you have lots of room in the forum to post all kinds of religious threads about God. Why continue to do it in this one scientific thread about God? Are you really trying to state that science is a religion for you?

Cool

So you agree that god has a creator? Interesting.



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HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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September 15, 2017, 08:08:49 PM
 #8200


You have to define what complexity means. The fact that something is complex doesn't mean it was created by a superior being. The complexity in a human being is formed in it's core by atoms, which are also formed by electrons, protons etc etc which aren't really complex. Together they can make up something pretty complex but that doesn't mean anything. You are just assuming everything. You are also assuming that it has to be a god because it's our best definition which makes no sense. It's a made up definition. Any other god, aliens, other superior beings could fit in that category as well.

The fact that you are unable to use a dictionary, doesn't mean I have to define anything. Get a family member or roommate to look "complexity" up for you in the dictionary.

Once you have the definition of complexity firmly embedded in your mind, then make one of those atoms you are talking about. No, I don't mean manipulate one. I mean make one. Like, create it. Why would I want you to do this? Just so that you can see that parts of an atom are not nearly as simple as our names for them.

Cool

Again invoking some sort of authority. Just because humans can't make certain things doesn't mean a god created them. You jump from, this is complex to this is complex therefore a god must have created it. What I'm saying is that an atom only is less complex than a full human body for example. And the parts that make the atom are less complex than the atom itself and if you keep digging you get to the least complex part.

Also humans can manufacture matter. We can turn light into subatomic particles for example.

But you can't do it without some complexity.

Suddenly you like to play with complexity. Did you forget entropy? More complex doesn't come from less complex. This means that our complex life, emotion, thought, intelligence, etc., came from something more complex in the past. So, whatever placed the complexity into the universe when it started the universe, had all these qualities in greater amount than we have.

When you look at the great complexity around, you realize that the intelligence to make this complexity is way beyond anything that we could understand. Putting all the "qualities" that exist together in such a complex form indicates God.

You can talk like you are getting away from it. But you can't get away from it.

Cool

So I'm guessing the creator of god has to be much more complex as well, right?

You are the one that said you are guessing. If you are really guessing, than what you posted is right. If you are not, then it is wrong.

Is it not time to get on topic and discuss the scientific proof for (or against) God? Like many others, you have lots of room in the forum to post all kinds of religious threads about God. Why continue to do it in this one scientific thread about God? Are you really trying to state that science is a religion for you?

Cool

So you agree that god has a creator? Interesting.

I didn't say or imply that I think that God has a creator. You know it, yet you seem to claim that I said or implied such. Just goes to show your deceptiveness.

Cool
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