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Author Topic: Scientific proof that God exists?  (Read 801000 times)
BADecker
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July 11, 2018, 08:41:52 PM
 #9781


As I said, because of the complexity of the physics of the universe, even if there were multiple entities who together created the universe, they still would need to work as One, or the universe wouldn't work. The entities would not be the God of the universe. They might be gods or lords in the sense of having some strength or control, but they would not and could not be the God of the universe, simply because of the complexity we see in all things. God is One.

Cool

The universe is complex indeed but nothing in your argument proves that it is so complex that if different beings created they would have to be one and not many. You are just making that up right now. They just need to work together, they don't need to be one, a whole alien race could have made our universe and nothing in your argument can prevent me from saying that. Can you prove an alien race didn't create our universe? It fits because the universe is really complex so it had to be made by a few beings, only 1 wouldn't be enough to create this complexity. Alien race created the universe simply because the complexity is too much and one single being wouldn't be able to do it.

The proof is in the car corporations.

An alien race? Now you are grasping at figments.   Grin

Cool


Yes, entropy shows the universe had a beginning, cause and effect is in everything and complexity shows the universe is too complex, an advanced alien race outside the universe must have created it, the universe is too complex only for 1 being to create it. It's obvious.

You underestimate, almost to infinity, the knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength of God. You underestimate the complexity of the universe almost to infinity, as well.

Cool

You are trying to prove god here yet you give him characteristics. How do you know ''You underestimate, almost to infinity, the knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength of God'' ?

''You underestimate the complexity of the universe almost to infinity'' How did you figure that out and even if it's close to infinity, how does that prove that it wasn't created by multiple gods or entities?

You quoted the answers to your questions, above.    Cool
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July 12, 2018, 02:36:23 AM
 #9782

there is no scientific proof that exist but you can feel that god exist through your undying faith and believing of what you feel inside in your heart, if your faith is so strong and believe that there is the existence of God so there's no need of scientific proof that God exist.
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July 12, 2018, 09:13:36 AM
 #9783


As I said, because of the complexity of the physics of the universe, even if there were multiple entities who together created the universe, they still would need to work as One, or the universe wouldn't work. The entities would not be the God of the universe. They might be gods or lords in the sense of having some strength or control, but they would not and could not be the God of the universe, simply because of the complexity we see in all things. God is One.

Cool

The universe is complex indeed but nothing in your argument proves that it is so complex that if different beings created they would have to be one and not many. You are just making that up right now. They just need to work together, they don't need to be one, a whole alien race could have made our universe and nothing in your argument can prevent me from saying that. Can you prove an alien race didn't create our universe? It fits because the universe is really complex so it had to be made by a few beings, only 1 wouldn't be enough to create this complexity. Alien race created the universe simply because the complexity is too much and one single being wouldn't be able to do it.

The proof is in the car corporations.

An alien race? Now you are grasping at figments.   Grin

Cool


Yes, entropy shows the universe had a beginning, cause and effect is in everything and complexity shows the universe is too complex, an advanced alien race outside the universe must have created it, the universe is too complex only for 1 being to create it. It's obvious.

You underestimate, almost to infinity, the knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength of God. You underestimate the complexity of the universe almost to infinity, as well.

Cool

You are trying to prove god here yet you give him characteristics. How do you know ''You underestimate, almost to infinity, the knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength of God'' ?

''You underestimate the complexity of the universe almost to infinity'' How did you figure that out and even if it's close to infinity, how does that prove that it wasn't created by multiple gods or entities?

You quoted the answers to your questions, above.    Cool

You are trying to prove god here yet you know ''god'' has knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength almost to infinity. How do you know all this? You said it yourself, we don't know what's outside the universe.

You claim the complexity of the universe is almost to infinity, how did you calculate this? How are you measuring the universe complexity?

Come on badecker, you are done, just admit it.



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Rainbot
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July 12, 2018, 09:26:08 AM
 #9784

there is no scientific proof that exist but you can feel that god exist through your undying faith and believing of what you feel inside in your heart, if your faith is so strong and believe that there is the existence of God so there's no need of scientific proof that God exist.

Simple belief is not enough anymore.  Maybe it worked in the dark ages, but today people are more educated and less gullible - they are going to want proof of some sky fairy.

Since religion is just a belief system not based in science, you cannot provide proof.

It really is that simple. You'd have to be very dense to not understand it. 

According to Pew Research Center:
In 2007, 78.4% of those researched called themselves christian.
In 2014, that number was 70.6%.
The number that are being actively brainwashed is actually much lower, as many people don't go to churches anymore, choosing instead to make their god what they want it to be instead of what a pedophile priest wants it to be.  Calling yourself a "christian" today just means you believe in something - not the most mis-translated book of all time.

People are waking up faster than ever. In a few years, people like BD will be considered idiots by the general population, instead of just here on the forum.  Smiley

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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July 12, 2018, 11:36:41 AM
 #9785

science doesn't need to proof it, there is GOD

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July 12, 2018, 04:16:47 PM
 #9786


You are trying to prove god here yet you know ''god'' has knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength almost to infinity. How do you know all this? You said it yourself, we don't know what's outside the universe.

You claim the complexity of the universe is almost to infinity, how did you calculate this? How are you measuring the universe complexity?

Come on badecker, you are done, just admit it.

You are a bit right about me being done... in certain ways.

Since you are agreeing with the idea of the "knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength" of God "almost to infinity," we can finally move on from here into the details that we have not covered so far.

Now that I am done with having to re-explain about the existence of the scientific proof for the existence of God, we can move on into how that scientific proof works.

Cool
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July 12, 2018, 04:36:41 PM
 #9787


You are trying to prove god here yet you know ''god'' has knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength almost to infinity. How do you know all this? You said it yourself, we don't know what's outside the universe.

You claim the complexity of the universe is almost to infinity, how did you calculate this? How are you measuring the universe complexity?

Come on badecker, you are done, just admit it.

You are a bit right about me being done... in certain ways.

Since you are agreeing with the idea of the "knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength" of God "almost to infinity," we can finally move on from here into the details that we have not covered so far.

Now that I am done with having to re-explain about the existence of the scientific proof for the existence of God, we can move on into how that scientific proof works.

Cool

Where did I agree with that idea? I asked you '' How do you know all this? You said it yourself, we don't know what's outside the universe.'' Since you just claimed something out of your ass.

You never explained how you know the complexity of the universe is almost infinite. Don't try to escape, your argument is garbage, debunked several times.



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July 12, 2018, 05:01:12 PM
 #9788


You are trying to prove god here yet you know ''god'' has knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength almost to infinity. How do you know all this? You said it yourself, we don't know what's outside the universe.

You claim the complexity of the universe is almost to infinity, how did you calculate this? How are you measuring the universe complexity?

Come on badecker, you are done, just admit it.

You are a bit right about me being done... in certain ways.

Since you are agreeing with the idea of the "knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength" of God "almost to infinity," we can finally move on from here into the details that we have not covered so far.

Now that I am done with having to re-explain about the existence of the scientific proof for the existence of God, we can move on into how that scientific proof works.

Cool

Where did I agree with that idea? I asked you '' How do you know all this? You said it yourself, we don't know what's outside the universe.'' Since you just claimed something out of your ass.

You never explained how you know the complexity of the universe is almost infinite. Don't try to escape, your argument is garbage, debunked several times.

Since you can't come up with any science against what I say, you are agreeing with me, possibly in spite of yourself.

We know certain aspects of what MUST lie outside the universe, in a way similar to knowing that empty space (nothing) exists. We do it by scientifically measuring relationships between things that exist.

I suppose that, potentially, space (nothing) doesn't exist at all. It is possible that we and everything else exist on a plane, and the reason why we seem to have distance is because of energy transference and energy relationships between all planar objects (us and all material), in ways that we don't understand. But to think like this would be getting into flat earth science, somewhat.

The point is that, regarding C&E, entropy, and complexity as we scientifically know them, Something exists out there (as you have stated in some of your posts) that matches the scientific aspects of the definitions of the word "God."


In other words, this forum and thread are not places to go to get into the precise hows and whys of the operations of everything. But scientists essentially agree with the things that I say, even if they won't admit it, readily. Since you can't explain your supposed debunking of anything that I said, you have debunked your debunking, yourself, by not understanding what you say.

Cool
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July 12, 2018, 06:06:06 PM
 #9789

That depends on your standard of proof. Having said that, what do you think have been proven to exist, according to your standard.
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July 12, 2018, 06:07:04 PM
 #9790

That depends on your standard of proof. Having said that, what do you think have been proven to exist, according to your standard.
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July 12, 2018, 08:50:18 PM
 #9791

try to read the QURAN my friend and you will find if he does  Wink
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July 12, 2018, 11:13:36 PM
 #9792


You are trying to prove god here yet you know ''god'' has knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength almost to infinity. How do you know all this? You said it yourself, we don't know what's outside the universe.

You claim the complexity of the universe is almost to infinity, how did you calculate this? How are you measuring the universe complexity?

Come on badecker, you are done, just admit it.

You are a bit right about me being done... in certain ways.

Since you are agreeing with the idea of the "knowledge, understanding, wisdom and strength" of God "almost to infinity," we can finally move on from here into the details that we have not covered so far.

Now that I am done with having to re-explain about the existence of the scientific proof for the existence of God, we can move on into how that scientific proof works.

Cool

Where did I agree with that idea? I asked you '' How do you know all this? You said it yourself, we don't know what's outside the universe.'' Since you just claimed something out of your ass.

You never explained how you know the complexity of the universe is almost infinite. Don't try to escape, your argument is garbage, debunked several times.

Since you can't come up with any science against what I say, you are agreeing with me, possibly in spite of yourself.

We know certain aspects of what MUST lie outside the universe, in a way similar to knowing that empty space (nothing) exists. We do it by scientifically measuring relationships between things that exist.

I suppose that, potentially, space (nothing) doesn't exist at all. It is possible that we and everything else exist on a plane, and the reason why we seem to have distance is because of energy transference and energy relationships between all planar objects (us and all material), in ways that we don't understand. But to think like this would be getting into flat earth science, somewhat.

The point is that, regarding C&E, entropy, and complexity as we scientifically know them, Something exists out there (as you have stated in some of your posts) that matches the scientific aspects of the definitions of the word "God."


In other words, this forum and thread are not places to go to get into the precise hows and whys of the operations of everything. But scientists essentially agree with the things that I say, even if they won't admit it, readily. Since you can't explain your supposed debunking of anything that I said, you have debunked your debunking, yourself, by not understanding what you say.

Cool

It's ok I will start again, you wont run away this time with your typical bullshit paragraphs.

Entropy: Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure what happened at them. This kind of beginning to the universe, and of time itself, is very different to the beginnings that had been considered earlier. These had to be imposed on the universe by some external agency. There is no dynamical reason why the motion of bodies in the solar system can not be extrapolated back in time, far beyond four thousand and four BC, the date for the creation of the universe, according to the book of Genesis. Thus it would require the direct intervention of God, if the universe began at that date. By contrast, the Big Bang is a beginning that is required by the dynamical laws that govern the universe. It is therefore intrinsic to the universe, and is not imposed on it from outside.


Cause and effect: We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause.

Even assuming that there is a first cause, the argument utterly fails to address how we can know its identity. Why not some kind of impersonal, eternal cosmic force? Why not shape-shifting aliens from another dimension? Why not a God that sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven? Or maybe the simplest of all, why not the Big Bang as the first cause? There is nothing in the argument to rule out the existence of multiple first causes. The argument also suffers from the fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause. For instance, while it is absolutely true that within a flock of sheep that every member ("an individual sheep") has a mother, it does not therefore follow that the flock has a mother.


Complexity: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design#Problems_with_the_above
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_fine_tuning

And again, debunked.





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July 12, 2018, 11:53:55 PM
 #9793


It's ok I will start again, you wont run away this time with your typical bullshit paragraphs.

Entropy: Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure what happened at them. This kind of beginning to the universe, and of time itself, is very different to the beginnings that had been considered earlier. These had to be imposed on the universe by some external agency. There is no dynamical reason why the motion of bodies in the solar system can not be extrapolated back in time, far beyond four thousand and four BC, the date for the creation of the universe, according to the book of Genesis. Thus it would require the direct intervention of God, if the universe began at that date. By contrast, the Big Bang is a beginning that is required by the dynamical laws that govern the universe. It is therefore intrinsic to the universe, and is not imposed on it from outside.


Cause and effect: We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause.

Even assuming that there is a first cause, the argument utterly fails to address how we can know its identity. Why not some kind of impersonal, eternal cosmic force? Why not shape-shifting aliens from another dimension? Why not a God that sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven? Or maybe the simplest of all, why not the Big Bang as the first cause? There is nothing in the argument to rule out the existence of multiple first causes. The argument also suffers from the fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause. For instance, while it is absolutely true that within a flock of sheep that every member ("an individual sheep") has a mother, it does not therefore follow that the flock has a mother.


Complexity: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design#Problems_with_the_above
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_fine_tuning

And again, debunked.


Wow! You can do big copy and pastes!

Big bang is irrelevant because its theory only suggests that it might have existed, not that it did exist, and not that it was the thing that started the universe if it existed.

There are lots of effects that we haven't found the cause for. But we know that there is a cause for them, because we have found a great number of effects with a cause, and not even one that we can prove has NO cause. Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.

You just blab your garbage over and over. You should feel sorry for me, since I have to repeat your fails over and over. Actually, it's fun. Cheesy

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July 13, 2018, 01:13:13 AM
 #9794

science doesn't need to proof it, there is GOD

Science doesn't need to prove it to you - you are brainwashed.  Smiley

Millions of people are leaving the cults every month because there is zero proof of any kind of any god.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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July 13, 2018, 05:55:59 AM
 #9795

science doesn't need to proof it, there is GOD

Science doesn't need to prove it to you - you are brainwashed.  Smiley

Millions of people are leaving the cults every month because there is zero proof of any kind of any god.

All you are saying is that there isn't any scientific proof that Vod exists. Just because there are some posts in the forum, isn't scientific proof.

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July 13, 2018, 03:03:03 PM
 #9796


It's ok I will start again, you wont run away this time with your typical bullshit paragraphs.

Entropy: Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure what happened at them. This kind of beginning to the universe, and of time itself, is very different to the beginnings that had been considered earlier. These had to be imposed on the universe by some external agency. There is no dynamical reason why the motion of bodies in the solar system can not be extrapolated back in time, far beyond four thousand and four BC, the date for the creation of the universe, according to the book of Genesis. Thus it would require the direct intervention of God, if the universe began at that date. By contrast, the Big Bang is a beginning that is required by the dynamical laws that govern the universe. It is therefore intrinsic to the universe, and is not imposed on it from outside.


Cause and effect: We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause.

Even assuming that there is a first cause, the argument utterly fails to address how we can know its identity. Why not some kind of impersonal, eternal cosmic force? Why not shape-shifting aliens from another dimension? Why not a God that sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven? Or maybe the simplest of all, why not the Big Bang as the first cause? There is nothing in the argument to rule out the existence of multiple first causes. The argument also suffers from the fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause. For instance, while it is absolutely true that within a flock of sheep that every member ("an individual sheep") has a mother, it does not therefore follow that the flock has a mother.


Complexity: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design#Problems_with_the_above
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_fine_tuning

And again, debunked.


Wow! You can do big copy and pastes!

Big bang is irrelevant because its theory only suggests that it might have existed, not that it did exist, and not that it was the thing that started the universe if it existed.

There are lots of effects that we haven't found the cause for. But we know that there is a cause for them, because we have found a great number of effects with a cause, and not even one that we can prove has NO cause. Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.

You just blab your garbage over and over. You should feel sorry for me, since I have to repeat your fails over and over. Actually, it's fun. Cheesy

Cool

''Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.'' No it doesn't as I said, it's a fallacy. ''fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause.''

Learn to read.

Even assuming all your premises are true, ultimately your argument fails to provide any evidence pointing to what actually created the universe, your complexity argument is very simple. You said it yourself too, whatever created the universe has to be more complex than it. Even if I agree on the premise too, it still doesn't say anything else about the possible creator/creators of the universe. Does it have to be sentient? How are you defining complexity? Again your argument fails to show why god has to be the creator of the universe.



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July 13, 2018, 03:30:42 PM
 #9797


It's ok I will start again, you wont run away this time with your typical bullshit paragraphs.

Entropy: Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure what happened at them. This kind of beginning to the universe, and of time itself, is very different to the beginnings that had been considered earlier. These had to be imposed on the universe by some external agency. There is no dynamical reason why the motion of bodies in the solar system can not be extrapolated back in time, far beyond four thousand and four BC, the date for the creation of the universe, according to the book of Genesis. Thus it would require the direct intervention of God, if the universe began at that date. By contrast, the Big Bang is a beginning that is required by the dynamical laws that govern the universe. It is therefore intrinsic to the universe, and is not imposed on it from outside.


Cause and effect: We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause.

Even assuming that there is a first cause, the argument utterly fails to address how we can know its identity. Why not some kind of impersonal, eternal cosmic force? Why not shape-shifting aliens from another dimension? Why not a God that sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven? Or maybe the simplest of all, why not the Big Bang as the first cause? There is nothing in the argument to rule out the existence of multiple first causes. The argument also suffers from the fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause. For instance, while it is absolutely true that within a flock of sheep that every member ("an individual sheep") has a mother, it does not therefore follow that the flock has a mother.


Complexity: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design#Problems_with_the_above
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_fine_tuning

And again, debunked.


Wow! You can do big copy and pastes!

Big bang is irrelevant because its theory only suggests that it might have existed, not that it did exist, and not that it was the thing that started the universe if it existed.

There are lots of effects that we haven't found the cause for. But we know that there is a cause for them, because we have found a great number of effects with a cause, and not even one that we can prove has NO cause. Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.

You just blab your garbage over and over. You should feel sorry for me, since I have to repeat your fails over and over. Actually, it's fun. Cheesy

Cool

''Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.'' No it doesn't as I said, it's a fallacy. ''fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause.''

Learn to read.
Let's see. Which point in and of the universe is the universe? Why, all of them combined, of course. Which point requires cause and effect? Why, all of them, of course. Equals, the whole universe requires cause and effect.

Scientific probability holds that when something is probable beyond a certain point, its opposite is impossible. Let's wait until we find that first non-C&E effect before we rule out scientific probability. After all, even your decision to rule out scientific probability on this point is a caused decision.



Even assuming all your premises are true, ultimately your argument fails to provide any evidence pointing to what actually created the universe, your complexity argument is very simple. You said it yourself too, whatever created the universe has to be more complex than it. Even if I agree on the premise too, it still doesn't say anything else about the possible creator/creators of the universe. Does it have to be sentient? How are you defining complexity? Again your argument fails to show why god has to be the creator of the universe.

You are simply talking about evaluating and describing God in terms of the universe. The existence of the universe proves that God exists, as I have shown you over and over. If you really want to learn about what God is, and how He works internally, you need to go to God and get the answers. Universe terms will never explain Him to you. Only He will be able to do that.

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July 13, 2018, 03:39:33 PM
 #9798


It's ok I will start again, you wont run away this time with your typical bullshit paragraphs.

Entropy: Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure what happened at them. This kind of beginning to the universe, and of time itself, is very different to the beginnings that had been considered earlier. These had to be imposed on the universe by some external agency. There is no dynamical reason why the motion of bodies in the solar system can not be extrapolated back in time, far beyond four thousand and four BC, the date for the creation of the universe, according to the book of Genesis. Thus it would require the direct intervention of God, if the universe began at that date. By contrast, the Big Bang is a beginning that is required by the dynamical laws that govern the universe. It is therefore intrinsic to the universe, and is not imposed on it from outside.


Cause and effect: We don't know that everything needs a cause, maybe some events happen spontaneously. There is actually evidence that some sub-atomic particles form and disappear for no reason, with no cause.

Even assuming that there is a first cause, the argument utterly fails to address how we can know its identity. Why not some kind of impersonal, eternal cosmic force? Why not shape-shifting aliens from another dimension? Why not a God that sends Christians to hell and atheists to heaven? Or maybe the simplest of all, why not the Big Bang as the first cause? There is nothing in the argument to rule out the existence of multiple first causes. The argument also suffers from the fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause. For instance, while it is absolutely true that within a flock of sheep that every member ("an individual sheep") has a mother, it does not therefore follow that the flock has a mother.


Complexity: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design#Problems_with_the_above
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_fine_tuning

And again, debunked.


Wow! You can do big copy and pastes!

Big bang is irrelevant because its theory only suggests that it might have existed, not that it did exist, and not that it was the thing that started the universe if it existed.

There are lots of effects that we haven't found the cause for. But we know that there is a cause for them, because we have found a great number of effects with a cause, and not even one that we can prove has NO cause. Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.

You just blab your garbage over and over. You should feel sorry for me, since I have to repeat your fails over and over. Actually, it's fun. Cheesy

Cool

''Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.'' No it doesn't as I said, it's a fallacy. ''fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause.''

Learn to read.
Let's see. Which point in and of the universe is the universe? Why, all of them combined, of course. Which point requires cause and effect? Why, all of them, of course. Equals, the whole universe requires cause and effect.

Scientific probability holds that when something is probable beyond a certain point, its opposite is impossible. Let's wait until we find that first non-C&E effect before we rule out scientific probability. After all, even your decision to rule out scientific probability on this point is a caused decision.



Even assuming all your premises are true, ultimately your argument fails to provide any evidence pointing to what actually created the universe, your complexity argument is very simple. You said it yourself too, whatever created the universe has to be more complex than it. Even if I agree on the premise too, it still doesn't say anything else about the possible creator/creators of the universe. Does it have to be sentient? How are you defining complexity? Again your argument fails to show why god has to be the creator of the universe.

You are simply talking about evaluating and describing God in terms of the universe. The existence of the universe proves that God exists, as I have shown you over and over. If you really want to learn about what God is, and how He works internally, you need to go to God and get the answers. Universe terms will never explain Him to you. Only He will be able to do that.

Cool

''The existence of the universe proves that God exists'' No it doesn't and you are evading the questions. Where in your argument does it say that the universe can only have 1 creator and it has to be a god as opposed to multiple creators? Or multiple non-god creators?

Badecker 0 - Astargath 100

yet again....



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Rainbot
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July 13, 2018, 04:13:30 PM
 #9799

''Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.'' No it doesn't as I said, it's a fallacy. ''fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause.''

Learn to read.
Let's see. Which point in and of the universe is the universe? Why, all of them combined, of course. Which point requires cause and effect? Why, all of them, of course. Equals, the whole universe requires cause and effect.

Scientific probability holds that when something is probable beyond a certain point, its opposite is impossible. Let's wait until we find that first non-C&E effect before we rule out scientific probability. After all, even your decision to rule out scientific probability on this point is a caused decision.



Even assuming all your premises are true, ultimately your argument fails to provide any evidence pointing to what actually created the universe, your complexity argument is very simple. You said it yourself too, whatever created the universe has to be more complex than it. Even if I agree on the premise too, it still doesn't say anything else about the possible creator/creators of the universe. Does it have to be sentient? How are you defining complexity? Again your argument fails to show why god has to be the creator of the universe.

You are simply talking about evaluating and describing God in terms of the universe. The existence of the universe proves that God exists, as I have shown you over and over. If you really want to learn about what God is, and how He works internally, you need to go to God and get the answers. Universe terms will never explain Him to you. Only He will be able to do that.

Cool

''The existence of the universe proves that God exists'' No it doesn't and you are evading the questions. Where in your argument does it say that the universe can only have 1 creator and it has to be a god as opposed to multiple creators? Or multiple non-god creators?

Badecker 0 - Astargath 100

yet again....

What? You can't even stick to the sub-topic that we are talking about. What's the matter. Finding out that all you have is propaganda talk?

Machines have makers. And machine universe has such a great Maker - as shown by C&E, entropy, and complexity, combined - that its Maker has to be God.

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July 13, 2018, 05:43:38 PM
 #9800

''Scientific probability rules out the possibility for a non-cause effect until we find one.'' No it doesn't as I said, it's a fallacy. ''fallacy of composition: what is true of a member of a group is not necessarily true for the group as a whole. Just because most things within the universe require a cause/causes, does not mean that the universe itself requires a cause.''

Learn to read.
Let's see. Which point in and of the universe is the universe? Why, all of them combined, of course. Which point requires cause and effect? Why, all of them, of course. Equals, the whole universe requires cause and effect.

Scientific probability holds that when something is probable beyond a certain point, its opposite is impossible. Let's wait until we find that first non-C&E effect before we rule out scientific probability. After all, even your decision to rule out scientific probability on this point is a caused decision.



Even assuming all your premises are true, ultimately your argument fails to provide any evidence pointing to what actually created the universe, your complexity argument is very simple. You said it yourself too, whatever created the universe has to be more complex than it. Even if I agree on the premise too, it still doesn't say anything else about the possible creator/creators of the universe. Does it have to be sentient? How are you defining complexity? Again your argument fails to show why god has to be the creator of the universe.

You are simply talking about evaluating and describing God in terms of the universe. The existence of the universe proves that God exists, as I have shown you over and over. If you really want to learn about what God is, and how He works internally, you need to go to God and get the answers. Universe terms will never explain Him to you. Only He will be able to do that.

Cool

''The existence of the universe proves that God exists'' No it doesn't and you are evading the questions. Where in your argument does it say that the universe can only have 1 creator and it has to be a god as opposed to multiple creators? Or multiple non-god creators?

Badecker 0 - Astargath 100

yet again....

What? You can't even stick to the sub-topic that we are talking about. What's the matter. Finding out that all you have is propaganda talk?

Machines have makers. And machine universe has such a great Maker - as shown by C&E, entropy, and complexity, combined - that its Maker has to be God.

Cool

''that its Maker has to be God.'' ''has'' how do you know it has to be God? How do you know it's not a few gods or other causes?



.
.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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