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Author Topic: Scientific proof that God exists?  (Read 840108 times)
BADecker
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September 04, 2014, 12:09:11 AM
 #461

Again, in simple English, the evidence for God is the existence of the kind of universe we live in.

For a moment, get any preconceived notions of God as you have heard of him through the religions, out of your mind. Then consider the following.

The whole universe, all of nature, acts like a gigantic, ultra-complex machine. Machines have makers.

At the same time we see the machine, everything is wearing out, running down, like a clock that needs to be wound up. We see nothing in nature that can make a machine anything like the universe. We don't see anything that can wind the clock of nature up again. Nothing!

If nature were not so complex, if we could figure it out in detail, then maybe there isn't a God. But, simply because of the way the whole universe and nature exist, there has to be a God. Machines have makers. And this Maker is way beyond us, far greater than we can ever think to be.

Proof is in the eye of the beholder. But the evidence is so overwhelmingly great that there simply is no other way.

Smiley

So your saying the universe is too complex to just appear, yet God (who would need to be exponentially more complex) just popped up?

----------

I think the problem is there is no clear definition of what God is. Everyone has their own interpretation. Which means no-ones is going to get anywhere.
I think before discussing proof of God, everyone has to agree exactly what God is.


If a person just popped into being, and there was God, it would seem to the person that God just popped up along with everything else.

The closest thing that we probably have to a machine that is more complex than its maker, would be a computer program that is designed to make another computer program that is more complicated. Is God more complex than the universe He made? Who knows? While the existence of the universe as it is super-strongly suggests His existence, scientifically speaking we haven't been able to find Him through what we call standard scientific means and methods.

When you can't find God, especially through scientific means, where are you going to get a definition of God, to say nothing about a clear definition? And when you are talking about a God that is probably outside of the universe, to our little minds, that doesn't even make sense. Defining God has already been done many times over, even though the definitions are probably wrong, or at least incomplete.

There are probably quite a few people who won't come back to this thread because they can't find anything they would call conclusive. Yet, judging by the number of hits, there is some interest. People are trying to find God.

Smiley

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September 04, 2014, 12:18:58 AM
 #462

I have read quite a bit about the survival hypothesis, but mostly from an academic perspective; I would for sure love to hear more from non-academics, I just wish their writing was more coherent!

I am inclined to take a cautious position approaching expansive phenomena of this type, merely wanting to emphasize that we can and should no longer wish them away. The Problem of Seth's Origin is a metaphysical question also related to survival, so these expansive questions are, if nothing else, useful practice for other expansive questions!

Some people don't care for evidence; it is perfectly fine!

“To know how to choose a path with heart is to learn how to follow
intuitive feeling. Logic can tell you superficially where a path might
lead to, but it cannot judge whether your heart will be in it.”

Many things are sought and some are found. Many other things are not specifically sought for and found (serendipity).

It is through following the facts presented in the published record and remaining open to all avenues of fruitful speculation and intuitive possibilities that the problem of Seth's origin will most likely be solved.

Challenge is a part of the quest to find God just as much as soul-searching; all beliefs must be challenged if they are to hold up! I think that the survival hypothesis is important in this discussion; it is expansive enough to give us some hints about God.

Two of the largest religions in the world suggest and demand that people should seek for God - Christianity and Islam. Judaism would be a third. These religions also talk about other sentient beings.

The point? Be careful, both in the search for God, and especially in the search for spiritual contact with other beings. Maybe we have built-in protection from malicious spirits that act friendly. But maybe we don't.

Smiley

EDIT: Personally, I am not going to go on a quest for other sentient spirits without a strong foundation in Christianity. Why? The Bible - the source for Christianity - tells us not to do it. The Bible tells us to seek God.

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September 04, 2014, 12:49:48 AM
 #463

If god exist, he need put some text under this line  Grin Grin Grin
---------------------------------------------------------

 and why he's going to use your account to do that ?
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September 04, 2014, 12:53:44 AM
 #464

Two of the largest religions in the world suggest and demand that people should seek for God - Christianity and Islam. Judaism would be a third. These religions also talk about other sentient beings.
Are we really talking about THREE DIFFERENT religions? Or is it more like three FACTIONS of the SAME religion?


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September 04, 2014, 12:56:06 AM
 #465

If god exist, he need put some text under this line  Grin Grin Grin
---------------------------------------------------------
touché


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September 04, 2014, 03:14:23 AM
 #466

Two of the largest religions in the world suggest and demand that people should seek for God - Christianity and Islam. Judaism would be a third. These religions also talk about other sentient beings.
Are we really talking about THREE DIFFERENT religions? Or is it more like three FACTIONS of the SAME religion?

image

The god of Islam is a god who weighs good deeds against bad, and judges people accordingly. The Jewish and Christian God is a God of mercy and grace and forgiveness.

The Jewish G-d is similar to the God of the Christians. The difference is that the Jews don't accept that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) of the Old Testament prophesies. Since Jesus is God right along with the Father and the Spirit, it's difficult to determine if these two religions have a different God, or if they are the same God with different views of Him. The Jews accept the Messiah at the same time that they reject Him. And God isn't God without the Messiah.

The Mormons have taken Christianity a further step. They don't believe Jesus is full God with the Father, and the Spirit isn't necessarily any more than the spirit of the Father. Rather than accept the Bible, which is the place that talks about Jesus and God more than any other, they have their own book. While they accept Jesus and His saving work, they deny the aspect of His full deity. Like the Jews, it is difficult to say whether Mormonism has the true God, only distorted, or whether they have a false god.

One thing is clear. The same as nobody has an absolutely clear understanding about who another person is, in the same way nobody has an absolutely clear understanding about Who God is. For example, there might be 3 factions that talk about the color of Jesus' hair differently. They might be the same in every other aspect. In a similar way, the various denominations, and even religions, might talk about aspects of God being different, while their basic beliefs about God are essentially the same.

Smiley

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September 04, 2014, 05:35:52 AM
 #467

If Jesus is God, then what about this reference which says otherwise?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_piso01.htm

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September 04, 2014, 07:16:26 AM
Last edit: September 04, 2014, 11:07:20 AM by Decksperiment
 #468

I think this is becoming a load of nonsense based on religion, (CHRIST/JEWISH Bullshit) as opposed to a search for the 'proof' of god.. an argument with good and bad points, but most do not relate to this diety being sought.. it is a search for proof, and not for a description of what each religion is about or where it came from..

My conclusions so far, is that the searcher need's to use 'magic' science..  in order to 'see' the truth here, as God has been defined as 'spirit' in the bible, so it would be only fair to say that.. wait.. seth (thoth), atlantean, master of mysteries.. who sit's atop of the scales of judgment, whilst anubis weigh's the heart, producing the reason masons fear the monkey, for they sold their soul, as was recorded by the monkey, Keeper of the Akasic Records, Mighty King, Magician, living from generation to generation.. (Hence how to remember past live's..) I know this book so well, I can recite it by heart..

Anubis is real. He is the opener of the way.. I guess Anubis is the one that takes you to the pearly gates.. the person you 'commune' with whilst asleep.. if I was to give certain words of power, would you notice their effect in your day to day life? I have.

Ever thought of trying the several ways for proof of 'diety' found in the Emerald Tablet's?

Occultists do, using their version of this, what can only be called 'BLACK' magic, or rite's of initiation. And they know the effects of their cause so well, we suffer.. whilst they succeed in life just for joining. Freemasons, the Jewish puppet's, ARE the 'DARK BROTHER's' of the Emerald Tablet's.. never devided.. believe it or not, this is how to spot the dark from the light in the people we know. For the rest of us are well and truely devided and conquered.

If I may ask a question in the hope of proof of god, it would be this:

Do angels and demons exist?

YES, and this is FACT. (Seth speaks.mp3)

What most miss, is how to see them.

For instance, the FOUR watchmen of the treble GATES in the book of the dead..

1. The planet's are the LORD's. aka, angels/demons. Each moon of each planet would be respective subordinates..

2. Four is the cardinal points, North, East, South, West, or 12, 3, 6, 9  or 24, 15, 12, 21 - (4 horsemen of the apocalypse)

3. The treble gates are 2, 4, 6, - 8, 10, 12, - 14, 16, 18, - 20, 22, 24, if we were to add the clock in order to produce the devisions of time which devide the space in which we live. To understand this, use a proper 24 hour clock.. the numbers above, point to the origional 12 positions on a clock face, producing the devision of time. This devision starts between 3 and 4 hrs, or: 6th day of the 4th month, (the 4th month representing the 4 after 9 it would take to get to 13) and it's opposite on a 24 hour clock face would be 13.00 hrs, or the 13th month.. On a 12 hour clock face this would be between 9 and 10hrs (google any masonic pictures with a clock, the hands positions say it all..)

So on the 60th second (Remember, drop the 0, giving 6, 12, or 24), 6th minute of the 6th hour, of the 6th day.. (each opposite being 13)

The light of the creator was born.. (cunt turned on a light to see what a mess he made)

4. The names of every demon/angel (whatever you wish to call them) are nothing more than points on this devision of time, and their respective strength's, or weakness's in the human being, and when they are likely to occ(ur), hence occult. And keep in mind the oldest book before binding was even thought of was TARO which the Jews turned into TORA(H) - H being latin For J or Y as in Hesus, or Jesus or Yesus

Just remember we have a problem to solve before this search can produce the proper results. The fact that there were origionally 370 degree's in a full circle, (remember, drop the 0 giving 37 = esoteric truth, that which we KNOW but CANNOT prove) the 10 (drop the 0) missing degree's being where Orphicius, the Sun's OWN constellation, would be. The victors can re-write history, but not the devision of time-space.

A more likely reason for removal of this constellation is it would not make sense to show the astrologer, that quite a few stars travel the same speed as the sun through every other constellation.. more likely they changed measurements so we paid more for less..

S'funny how we pay monthly bills, yet we pay 13 times a year. This is the evidence that the above paragraph is true. Any religion accepting 13 payment's a year in my opinion, is not worshipping the light of GOD, they are worshipping the moon. Ie, the womans periodic cycle, (disgusting evil test number 1: Take menstrual blood, draw ring of blood around base of ANY plant, observe it immediately die, this was portrayed in X-men as the evil crossed the field, everything she touched died..) which incidently is when we are paid our miniscule wages. This is NOT a coincidence. it is not just a FACT of the LIE stopping our search from the point of the introduction of the lunar cycle in todays life. It's not the lunar cycle that is the problem, but that it is being used whilst being hidden from us. The devils greatest trick was convincing the world it does not exist. The devil is in these details. To believe in the devil is to believe in god, this paragraph has proof of the devil, using disgusting evil test number 1. This is the start of MY proof.

How can we find proof of god when the entire system we use is NOT 12 months a year, but 13?

Go take this to the bank and sue them for the theft of the 13'th payment they take from YOUR bank account EVERY year.. you would win this in a court of LAW since the COURT only recognises 12 months in a year.. Sue them for false advertising, as monthly pay is only 12 times a year. Not 13 x 4 (52 weeks).

So how anyone can produce compus mentus dates for the use of any research likely to produce this evidence of god, is so far away, it is lost in the mists of.. TIME.

Yes there is evidence of god, for spirits have a boss, commander, captain, general, top boy, who's name is diety.. try to search for GOD, based on time, since he reckons your years.

A simple way to explain what I mean. Say the bible is only 13 months old, which year was it written in? The first or second of it's life? Since there are (currently) only 12 months in the year, the bible would be complete in it's second year from point of inception. But since everything is based on the lunar calendar, Then this bible was complete at the end of 1 year.

Edit: Question: Why does no one online point this out anywhere else?

You now have the 'Key' of the 'Time-Space' found in the Emerald Tablet's, and if this were true, including it's one flaw, can you spot it? (Excluding the reality that everything we discover is a reversed form of what is written in religious texts..) ie, the writings we read are a reversal of what we experience in our every day reality, explaining why the dog is chasing the three wise men Smiley

Voila!!
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September 04, 2014, 10:22:43 AM
 #469

If I was to be able to prove to you  that does God exist, what would that look like? What law of science would it be based upon? Mathematics, physics, geology, etc.? I ask because it seems to me that most Atheists expect the answer to be based in science or it would be no answer at all -- but I had a question elsewhere about what I thought could be demonstrated by science and it seems that science cannot solve the problem; the philosopher's pedagogy is the more appropriate tool.

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September 04, 2014, 10:25:27 AM
 #470

If I was to be able to prove to you  that does God exist, what would that look like? What law of science would it be based upon? Mathematics, physics, geology, etc.? I ask because it seems to me that most Atheists expect the answer to be based in science or it would be no answer at all -- but I had a question elsewhere about what I thought could be demonstrated by science and it seems that science cannot solve the problem; the philosopher's pedagogy is the more appropriate tool.

I hope you are not relating me to an athiest.. they believe in nothing, I believe, but in what I have yet to understand.. get it?
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September 04, 2014, 10:28:41 AM
 #471

In reply to your question, I guess that depends on the proof you provide, is it physical? Scientific? Esoteric?

Do you believe in magic?
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September 04, 2014, 10:31:45 AM
 #472

I definitely believe in magic haha. How else did David Copperfield make that giant elephant disappear in his act from the mid 90's?

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September 04, 2014, 10:33:18 AM
Last edit: September 04, 2014, 10:57:51 AM by Decksperiment
 #473

I definitely believe in magic haha. How else did David Copperfield make that giant elephant disappear in his act from the mid 90's?

It's probably posted online, for me it was the same as the wall of china stunt..

The magic I'm talking about is written of all over the web.. so many believers.. only in magic, NOT illusion. Wink

Edit: And the evidence for the existance of god is the FACT that by speaking, you get results from the almighty ear, be it through ritual.. o-ee-yaaaa... hahaha... lololol.. Sound.. blah blah.. "please god shut him up" - fuck, he heard me.. speak of the devil, they're sure to appear..

So WHO gives the LAW that the PLANETS and elements OBEY?

It's built in tae the big yin Wink
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September 04, 2014, 11:23:02 AM
 #474

In reply to your question, I guess that depends on the proof you provide, is it physical? Scientific? Esoteric?

Do you believe in magic?
 

Maybe the first proof that can be made was (logic)
Topic: Computer Scientists Prove God Exists



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September 04, 2014, 12:18:57 PM
 #475

In reply to your question, I guess that depends on the proof you provide, is it physical? Scientific? Esoteric?

Do you believe in magic?
 

Maybe the first proof that can be made was (logic)
Topic: Computer Scientists Prove God Exists




Yes you are right, everything has a set of limited code to function a cause.  Like living creatures, chemical compound, cell, DNA, human . Haven is real and hell is real too. Jesus Christ says the lake of fire. Pardon me if I offend anyone

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September 04, 2014, 12:43:52 PM
 #476

In reply to your question, I guess that depends on the proof you provide, is it physical? Scientific? Esoteric?

Do you believe in magic?
 

Maybe the first proof that can be made was (logic)
Topic: Computer Scientists Prove God Exists




Yes you are right, everything has a set of limited code to function a cause.  Like living creatures, chemical compound, cell, DNA, human . Haven is real and hell is real too. Jesus Christ says the lake of fire. Pardon me if I offend anyone

I think you'll find this code is crap, for if it was indeed limited to function 'A' cause, what of the code for the infinate possibility that this code is forever improving itself after being fed the holy of holies, (see movie Pi) and therefore can in no way be limited, for then eventually even space would fill up no?
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September 04, 2014, 12:52:27 PM
 #477

It is illogical for logic to be god, for where then, is the logic in that?

Logical people have no time for emotions, since they are a hinderence. They have sense of touch, but no feelings until much later in life than most.. love is a concept, fuckin is good.. we love our parents, we love our kids, we love our bit on the side.. dya know why you can be charged with swearing offensively? Because scummy police can't give their wives a good fuckin.. neither can the judge.. they have to make love..

Imagine, quickie in an elevator.. judge and secretary.. oh, lets make love.. na, lets just fuck.. we cant we'll break the law.. now where is the logic in that?

They'll do it anyway.. completely illogical.

But natural.
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September 04, 2014, 01:28:48 PM
 #478

Depends on what do you mean by "God". If you think God is a person, who sends good people to heaven and bad people to hell - then no. His rules are impossible to follow. If they were true, no one would ever go to heaven.

This is the best formulation of a proof that God in the Bible/Quran/Other religions is man made. Probably has a logo too.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

There are forces in the Universe that we do not understand yet. It's a proven fact that everything has a magnetic field. We are all connected. Literally. Science has proven that. Planets even have auras. So again - depends on your concept of god. But to believe in Jesus, or Satan is hilarious.

Just because god has been misinterpreted by religions doesn't make the concepts of jesus or satan any less true.  Jesus did exist, nature always has a way of rising one person in the position to discover, share and rebel against a greed based society to the farthest extent.  When you are in that position and reach that state of consciousness, you realize a few things: death is inevitable, living in fear of death is illogical, pain is a manifestation of ego, if you live a life of spreading peace you will feel no pain when you die, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by beholding the position of jesus.

Jesus is beyond a universally singular person.  Jesus is a soul, the spirit of god.  Jesus is the one.  He is neo, it matters not what form he takes.

Satan is also not a singular being.  Satan is the concept of the material world, ego, negativity.

This spiritual universe has been personified in order to be portrayed in terms humans can comprehend.  God is well beyond any one humanoid being.  God is light, god is love.

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September 04, 2014, 02:13:03 PM
 #479

In reply to your question, I guess that depends on the proof you provide, is it physical? Scientific? Esoteric?

Do you believe in magic?
 

Maybe the first proof that can be made was (logic)
Topic: Computer Scientists Prove God Exists




Yes you are right, everything has a set of limited code to function a cause.  Like living creatures, chemical compound, cell, DNA, human . Haven is real and hell is real too. Jesus Christ says the lake of fire. Pardon me if I offend anyone

I think you'll find this code is crap, for if it was indeed limited to function 'A' cause, what of the code for the infinate possibility that this code is forever improving itself after being fed the holy of holies, (see movie Pi) and therefore can in no way be limited, for then eventually even space would fill up no?

Stop to limit you to the current concepts and ideas !

You've said yourself; first is only sensations, after is concepts and sentiments ..
So here What processes lead a person to have a certainty that God exists? and you surely agree that anything can be have a conversion or mathematical model for application

Decksperiment
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September 04, 2014, 03:33:29 PM
 #480

Depends on what do you mean by "God". If you think God is a person, who sends good people to heaven and bad people to hell - then no. His rules are impossible to follow. If they were true, no one would ever go to heaven.

This is the best formulation of a proof that God in the Bible/Quran/Other religions is man made. Probably has a logo too.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

There are forces in the Universe that we do not understand yet. It's a proven fact that everything has a magnetic field. We are all connected. Literally. Science has proven that. Planets even have auras. So again - depends on your concept of god. But to believe in Jesus, or Satan is hilarious.

Just because god has been misinterpreted by religions doesn't make the concepts of jesus or satan any less true.  Jesus did exist, nature always has a way of rising one person in the position to discover, share and rebel against a greed based society to the farthest extent.  When you are in that position and reach that state of consciousness, you realize a few things: death is inevitable, living in fear of death is illogical, pain is a manifestation of ego, if you live a life of spreading peace you will feel no pain when you die, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by beholding the position of jesus.

Jesus is beyond a universally singular person.  Jesus is a soul, the spirit of god.  Jesus is the one.  He is neo, it matters not what form he takes.

Satan is also not a singular being.  Satan is the concept of the material world, ego, negativity.

This spiritual universe has been personified in order to be portrayed in terms humans can comprehend.  God is well beyond any one humanoid being.  God is light, god is love.

At first you appear intelligent enough to know what your talking about, then I noticed this notice that is not worth noticing, but I noticed it anyway lol, Jesus was a human being, the apparent son of god, but he was most definately NOT GOD
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