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Author Topic: Money is usually debt; Debt is slavery; Bitcoin is neither debt nor slavery.  (Read 2812 times)
cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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March 26, 2012, 06:40:54 PM
 #21

Debt is not slavery.

If I borrow money from someone, whether dollars or Bitcoins, I am in debt. But in no way am I a slave, I'm merely obligated to fulfill a voluntary contract. If debt is slavery, so too is employment, ordering chinese food, purchasing insurance, and marriage (some might argue with this last point Wink

Why won't this phrase go away??

Because people like Atlas have never had actual businesses before and don't understand the difference between good debt and bad debt.

A debt more than you can afford to lose is bad debt.

My turn.
SHUT UP, ATLAS!

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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March 26, 2012, 07:05:43 PM
 #22

Debt is not slavery.

If I borrow money from someone, whether dollars or Bitcoins, I am in debt. But in no way am I a slave, I'm merely obligated to fulfill a voluntary contract. If debt is slavery, so too is employment, ordering chinese food, purchasing insurance, and marriage (some might argue with this last point Wink

Why won't this phrase go away??

Because people like Atlas have never had actual businesses before and don't understand the difference between good debt and bad debt.

A debt more than you can afford to lose is bad debt.

My turn.
SHUT UP, ATLAS!


Does he really think anyone buys his pseudo-philosophical bullshit?

Atlas, please, for the off chance you will survive this decade (which is growing smaller every time you open your mouth publicly), start actually doing things and learn from them.

A business might be healthy and want to expand, and in order to expand they borrow money from the bank that they cannot afford to lose in order to afford opening up another branch of their business in the opposite side of town. The risks are clear, and they take the chance in an effort to bring in more revenue from their new location. This is called "good debt", fucktard. It brings in income. Bad debt would be something like a car that you owe money on. If you sell it, you can't get what you paid for it back, so it's a liability and basically bad debt.

Your cool-aid stained lips repeatedly spill the gusty anal escapes of your aspergers riddled mind.

You change your name everytime someone proves you wrong and in your own clearly psychotic world, you actually forget your own name each time you do it.

You are Atlas, the suicidal 17 year old freak show who thinks that he is the god of everything for building an Ikea desk and spending something like $50 just to argue with SomethingAwful goons about how you like to physically abuse prostitutes for sexual pleasure.

You're vile, pretentious and for some reason, have an affirmed hatred for the poor as everything that comes out of your mouth involves buying your way out of trouble.

Your every statement contradicts the one before it.

Please oh please, Atlas's mommy. If you can read this. Make him take his medicine today so the grownups can have a conversation without hearing "Look at me! Look at me! Look what I can do!" every 15 seconds in the form of a self-serving and un-ironically pointless blog post.

Code:
Dear Diary,

The other kids at BitcoinTalk.org don't like me. I think I can win them over by learning how they talk.
It will take me some time, but I am determined to make myself a success through the admiration of
others (just like how I explained why girls orgasm-- in admiration of me!). I will make them like me by
force or bribes if necessary.

I will be the new Bruce Wagner. They will see. They just haven't seen my good side yet. Oh well, Diary,
until next time, it looks like those goddamn poor people are at my door again trying to get some help for
something pointless like their own lives. That doesn't provide me happiness, so I will pick them off with a
rifle on their way into the street while I keep looking super cool with my fake vapor cigarettes.

Love,

Atlas. I mean Immanuel Go. I mean Ragnar. I mean ALPHA. I mean Jon.

Who am I diary?

I am unremorseful, that's who.


cbeast
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March 26, 2012, 08:35:21 PM
 #23


heh. Atlas reminds me a little of Captain Howdy posessing a teenager. I wonder if his head spins whenever he creates a new account.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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March 27, 2012, 05:09:18 AM
 #24

I'm only winning. WINNING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5aSa4tmVNM

The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
cbeast
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March 27, 2012, 05:21:51 AM
 #25

Sheen is winning new friends at the moment.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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March 27, 2012, 08:20:10 AM
 #26

Money is not debt, it is some kind of religion  Wink

Although it does not hold any value, but when everyone believe in the value behind it, it gets everyone's trust, and to keep this trust, there are central bankers control the money supply, acting as gods in this religion Roll Eyes



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March 27, 2012, 08:21:24 AM
 #27

Money is not debt, it is some kind of religion  Wink

Although it does not hold any value, but when everyone believe in the value behind it, it gets everyone's trust, and to keep this trust, there are central bankers control the money supply, acting as gods in this religion Roll Eyes




Unless the money is also a commodity.

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March 31, 2012, 06:02:53 AM
 #28

Debt is not slavery.

If I borrow money from someone, whether dollars or Bitcoins, I am in debt. But in no way am I a slave, I'm merely obligated to fulfill a voluntary contract. If debt is slavery, so too is employment, ordering chinese food, purchasing insurance, and marriage (some might argue with this last point Wink

Why won't this phrase go away??

In the case of fiat money, it is created by the government selling a bond

The government has accepted a contract. The government has forced you to accept that money they created as legal tender - you must accept that money for payment. This make you an involuntary participant.

Since you need this money to pay for items, you will need to work to acquire it. This means you are working to pay this bond, as an involuntary participant.

So, it seems to me you are in bondage. Bondage with forced labor is slavery.

And since bitcoin doesn't have a bond, or any other debt instrument to back it, or create it, it does not have these properties.

This is why I use and promote bitcoin. It is a tool of freedom. Great post.

Mine at the Maza Club! with ShastaFarEye Prospectors! Mazacoin PPS & P2pool mining, and more services coming soon!
Maza Means Money! Check yours at the mazacha.in!

Please contact me  on my  OTC registered GPG (A54E87F2) Key's email address or guruvan@shastafareye.net  and encrypt all correspondence.
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March 31, 2012, 01:39:06 PM
 #29

Debt is not slavery.

If I borrow money from someone, whether dollars or Bitcoins, I am in debt. But in no way am I a slave, I'm merely obligated to fulfill a voluntary contract. If debt is slavery, so too is employment, ordering chinese food, purchasing insurance, and marriage (some might argue with this last point Wink

Why won't this phrase go away??

In the case of fiat money, it is created by the government selling a bond

The government has accepted a contract. The government has forced you to accept that money they created as legal tender - you must accept that money for payment. This make you an involuntary participant.

Since you need this money to pay for items, you will need to work to acquire it. This means you are working to pay this bond, as an involuntary participant.

So, it seems to me you are in bondage. Bondage with forced labor is slavery.

And since bitcoin doesn't have a bond, or any other debt instrument to back it, or create it, it does not have these properties.

This is why I use and promote bitcoin. It is a tool of freedom. Great post.


I live a simple life below the tax threshold.  Sure, I've got property taxes of almost $20 a year, but beyond that no government is forcing fiat upon me.  For me it's not worth supporting the American Cult in order to be able to buy more shit I don't need.  Grow food, love people, live free.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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guruvan
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March 31, 2012, 04:37:47 PM
 #30

I live a simple life below the tax threshold.  Sure, I've got property taxes of almost $20 a year, but beyond that no government is forcing fiat upon me.  For me it's not worth supporting the American Cult in order to be able to buy more shit I don't need.  Grow food, love people, live free.

+1000 Me too. Best decision I ever made was to make less money so I could be more wealthy and freer.

Mine at the Maza Club! with ShastaFarEye Prospectors! Mazacoin PPS & P2pool mining, and more services coming soon!
Maza Means Money! Check yours at the mazacha.in!

Please contact me  on my  OTC registered GPG (A54E87F2) Key's email address or guruvan@shastafareye.net  and encrypt all correspondence.
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March 31, 2012, 08:23:12 PM
 #31

I live a simple life below the tax threshold.  Sure, I've got property taxes of almost $20 a year, but beyond that no government is forcing fiat upon me.  For me it's not worth supporting the American Cult in order to be able to buy more shit I don't need.  Grow food, love people, live free.

You're deluding yourself if you think you can go on doing this forever.  Eventually the irresponsibility of the state will catch up with you, and whenever they need your property to build a new housing block or factory, or simply to pay off their debt, they will seize it.

They are already attacking your ability to grow your own food, outlawing small farms, classifying heirloom breeds as "invasive" because they are too productive, poisoning the food and water, so that your tap water comes pre-saturated with fertilizer run-off and your urine contains 20x the legal limit of pesticides.  Eventually, patented seeds will make their way into your garden and you will become a target of the intellectual property regime.  The window of opportunity to become self-sufficient is closing.

At the same time, they are drawing a stark line between anyone inside their corporate plantation, and those outside.  Those inside are offered free healthcare to fend off the multitude of degenerative diseases caused by GMO and modern agriculture.  Those outside are literally labeled terrorists by the Justice Department for "believing they can live without government interference in their lives" and thereby "undermining" the fictional "democracy" they claim justifies their unsustainable property-grabbing scheme.

Meanwhile, the Army grows drugs in Afghanistan, the CIA smuggles them into the US, the ATF runs guns into Mexico, and the FBI has instigated every major "foiled" terror plot since 9/11.  This is all on the record and, in most cases, openly admitted.  Yet the average citizen is still blissfully unaware.

So, no, it's no longer enough to just sit idly by and hope the system collapses on its own.  That could take centuries.  Anyone who wants to live in peace and freedom has a responsibility to actively dismantle the unjust and unconstitutional power structures built up in order to enslave humanity.  Using Bitcoin is just one step in this process.

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
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March 31, 2012, 10:42:17 PM
 #32

I live a simple life below the tax threshold.  Sure, I've got property taxes of almost $20 a year, but beyond that no government is forcing fiat upon me.  For me it's not worth supporting the American Cult in order to be able to buy more shit I don't need.  Grow food, love people, live free.
......
So, no, it's no longer enough to just sit idly by and hope the system collapses on its own.  That could take centuries.  Anyone who wants to live in peace and freedom has a responsibility to actively dismantle the unjust and unconstitutional power structures built up in order to enslave humanity.  Using Bitcoin is just one step in this process.

It's one step, but it's a step. And that's really what it takes. Each person making one step. And then another.

Also, growing food is not sitting idly by. Growing anything is damn hard work. Refusing to support something is the same as hastening its eventual collapse, to me.

If the goal is to bring people out of indebtedness and slavery living free is the best thing you can do for your neighbor - your neighbor must choose freedom, you cannot force it upon him or her.

Dismantling the unjust power structures is not the same as choosing freedom. If freedom was everyone's choice, they would disintegrate. I don't worry about those structures that will fall if unsupported. (but I will entice the supporters with my experience of freedom to discontinue their support)

Mine at the Maza Club! with ShastaFarEye Prospectors! Mazacoin PPS & P2pool mining, and more services coming soon!
Maza Means Money! Check yours at the mazacha.in!

Please contact me  on my  OTC registered GPG (A54E87F2) Key's email address or guruvan@shastafareye.net  and encrypt all correspondence.
notme
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March 31, 2012, 10:49:12 PM
 #33

I live a simple life below the tax threshold.  Sure, I've got property taxes of almost $20 a year, but beyond that no government is forcing fiat upon me.  For me it's not worth supporting the American Cult in order to be able to buy more shit I don't need.  Grow food, love people, live free.

You're deluding yourself if you think you can go on doing this forever.  Eventually the irresponsibility of the state will catch up with you, and whenever they need your property to build a new housing block or factory, or simply to pay off their debt, they will seize it.

They are already attacking your ability to grow your own food, outlawing small farms, classifying heirloom breeds as "invasive" because they are too productive, poisoning the food and water, so that your tap water comes pre-saturated with fertilizer run-off and your urine contains 20x the legal limit of pesticides.  Eventually, patented seeds will make their way into your garden and you will become a target of the intellectual property regime.  The window of opportunity to become self-sufficient is closing.

At the same time, they are drawing a stark line between anyone inside their corporate plantation, and those outside.  Those inside are offered free healthcare to fend off the multitude of degenerative diseases caused by GMO and modern agriculture.  Those outside are literally labeled terrorists by the Justice Department for "believing they can live without government interference in their lives" and thereby "undermining" the fictional "democracy" they claim justifies their unsustainable property-grabbing scheme.

Meanwhile, the Army grows drugs in Afghanistan, the CIA smuggles them into the US, the ATF runs guns into Mexico, and the FBI has instigated every major "foiled" terror plot since 9/11.  This is all on the record and, in most cases, openly admitted.  Yet the average citizen is still blissfully unaware.

So, no, it's no longer enough to just sit idly by and hope the system collapses on its own.  That could take centuries.  Anyone who wants to live in peace and freedom has a responsibility to actively dismantle the unjust and unconstitutional power structures built up in order to enslave humanity.  Using Bitcoin is just one step in this process.

I will stand with my rifle and let them shoot me before I will give them what is mine, and I have many like minds close by.  Even the corporatists will wake up if they kill enough of us.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
12jh3odyAAaR2XedPKZNCR4X4sebuotQzN
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April 02, 2012, 12:21:45 PM
 #34

I live a simple life below the tax threshold.  Sure, I've got property taxes of almost $20 a year, but beyond that no government is forcing fiat upon me.  For me it's not worth supporting the American Cult in order to be able to buy more shit I don't need.  Grow food, love people, live free.

+1000 Me too. Best decision I ever made was to make less money so I could be more wealthy and freer.

It's just this kind of thought created financial crisis --- After banks have loaned out billions of dollar and built so many homes and sold so many CDSs, and they suddenly found out that people do not want those homes...  Grin

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