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Author Topic: [BOUNTY] A patch for bitcoind to modify tx list in "getmemorypool"  (Read 4799 times)
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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March 27, 2012, 04:46:56 PM
 #41

That wouldn't allow miners to change fees quickly. IMO, a better solution is to push a URI and signing pubkeyhash into the coinbase... then have a simple (signed) script at the URI that calculates the fee required for a given txn.

Interesting. Or possibly just a signed fee manifest at the URI.   Client detects new block, checks coinbase for tx fee data and uses uri to grab fee manifest.  Client updates its database.

Alternatively if blocks are signed (which is useful in other applications) with pubkeyhash a miner could simply transmit an updated fee manifest (via a new message type) to the network as needed.  each node would check to validate manifest and relay only if valid.  some sort of spam rule would be needed to avoid a DOS.    Still the combination of node being able to sign the block (proof of hashing power) and publish a fee manifest gives clients the ability to compute time vs fee effectively.

Anyways this is why it is useful to start the discussion.
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March 27, 2012, 05:03:38 PM
 #42

That wouldn't allow miners to change fees quickly. IMO, a better solution is to push a URI and signing pubkeyhash into the coinbase... then have a simple (signed) script at the URI that calculates the fee required for a given txn.

"n" could be one block, or are you suggesting that miners would need to vary within a single block?

EDIT: I suggested that the client generate the fee from a message as it might be possible for the miner to be down/DDoSd, and another miner could/would pick up the txn.

Are there use cases where a script at a URI would be an issue due to latency? I'm thinking of fast txns over slow/satellite links, but can't honestly think of a current use case for that scenario (the bitcoin cash terminal is the only one I can think of that may be relevant).


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March 27, 2012, 06:32:00 PM
 #43

One related question.  Is it possible to have bitcoind create a tx but not broadcast it?  If so is it then part of the memorypool?  If not could bitcoind be modified to make it part of the memorypool?  Essentially I want the ability to include a tx in a block that hasn't been broadcasted (coin melting).



YU-HUUUU

Let's melt some coins and hearts.


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March 28, 2012, 12:29:21 PM
 #44

Polvos, you also offered to contribute toward the bounty; if you feel the desire to tip me, you can use 1DGzpZzce1c7nsg1SN7exV6bsaju1Mcrc6 - it's fine with me if you choose not to, though.

Nice work, coder. Tipped you 5 BTC. Please, can you think a little about the melt mining work? I think it's good to counter MtGox abuse. Thank you.

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Gerald Davis


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March 28, 2012, 01:38:26 PM
 #45

Examples usage of setminfee

Setting minfee of 0.005 BTC per KB
Code:
E:\bitcoin\bitcoin-0.6.0rc5+customfee-win32>bitcoind setminfee 0.0005
true

Checking minfee using getmininginfo
Code:
E:\bitcoin\bitcoin-0.6.0rc5+customfee-win32>bitcoind getmininginfo
{
    "blocks" : 173278,
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 1498294.36281651,
    "errors" : "",
    "generate" : false,
    "genproclimit" : -1,
    "hashespersec" : 0,
    "pooledtx" : 37,
    "minfee" : 0.00050000,
    "minfeeper" : 1000,
    "testnet" : false
}

Checking the memorypool returned by bitcoind (used by p2pool or solominer to generate work)
Code:
E:\bitcoin\bitcoin-0.6.0rc5+customfee-win32>bitcoind getmemorypool
{
    "version" : 1,
    "previousblockhash" : "0000000000000223a54ba1689d09a07aac9c172002fee5866b18c
2e52ecf5569",
    "transactions" : [
    ],
    "coinbasevalue" : 5000000000,
    "coinbaseflags" : "062f503253482f",
    "time" : 1332941298,
    "mintime" : 1332936934,
    "curtime" : 1332941298,
    "bits" : "1a0b3287"
}

Note tx section is empty.  At the time of execution the node has not received any unconfirmed tx with a fee of >= 0.0005 BTC


Setting the minfee to 1 satoshi (1E-8 BTC, the smallest unit in Bitcoin) and checking mempool
Essentially this includes all paying txs and excludes all non-paying txs.

Code:
E:\bitcoin\bitcoin-0.6.0rc5+customfee-win32>bitcoind setminfee 0.00000001
true

E:\bitcoin\bitcoin-0.6.0rc5+customfee-win32>bitcoind getmemorypool
{
    "version" : 1,
    "previousblockhash" : "000000000000087818d53138fbd4256625e37c98a38b6fe8569e56852c92ab70",
    "transactions" : [
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3d56b1ae91f9f908ef5a485f12612d1b788ac00000000",
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7565eedfeeb95ffffffff72d37e5d931dd8c379052d702afb25983927055dd4a621aac66901a13bba6a9d2f0000008a47304402206b20c438e2a981c
82385eca99ac00d17bf3893c0b23092a3da9be747347edf4702201712aa42ff4bf37d64298c477b34061713989677c9fe4df0f619331025bcce62014
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65eedfeeb95ffffffff80b290fc21ad8b97521fb67961a5983361ce053ba9959ab2188258857edbc215180000008b48304502210085c56958bafe3e8
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7565eedfeeb95ffffffff682397d21cf100e2e37819a25ddc9421bd35aab8aacbfb77e33ea2e50ded4079130000008c49304602210082767c02c33ee
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        "010000000199ea376b2eff833fc3e28beceaec19943b241d82803e5628ae15a5332fc016211e0000008c493046022100adf90d9a6875f81
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6a81d18e3142141facf9e0e34326c25831e88ac00000000",
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b11a638450dba76396569be88ace02f3808000000001976a9142dbde30815faee5bf221d6688ebad7e12f7b2b1a88ac00000000",
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ebf5c8be217cf04fff1d888ac50ea1a05000000001976a9142dbde30815faee5bf221d6688ebad7e12f7b2b1a88ac00000000",
        "01000000013e4ddad8766a7d899d60deeb958da585247c801dbfbaa6cb969f645e8cac40c8000000008b483045022100a6a031ab842b8b8
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        "0100000001e908118907b83ad6db5250271070c7253971a2c3b7a47a283953a4640096bc4d000000008c493046022100985506639078d54
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ae823585193faffffffff026a709a01000000001976a914ec9891bfba0c64a4683a73dca4c1fb2e630145b588ac01000000000000001976a914d01ee
ecf89e7b13082b9e90a1a8c62115465bd3b88ac00000000",
        "01000000011ab8482a97a10f046513944e1425e601a296920d469184c8ad937c31043078e0000000008b48304502206f0480265d67e0f0a
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81999a0f2875aa9ddbee9e47236b291e788ac00000000",
        "01000000019032628f653fba3273c0124294ec60567c675c35866326b235fbe9bb0179c370000000008a473044022075a988ab396170d17
9872320ad663ca41bd12b1ca5db007ada82e178f9508d4502200c03e286231346e3e5f2cbb4728265d8fd748d74df637a1edd3a32eba0885cf001410
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1c49d711dffffffff0230a21306000000001976a914539fde3640b31e49096aaab08907461c59e7740988ac20e88d00000000001976a91423d5b12c9
deba304b7773cd5a7de0d55a739852988ac00000000"
    ],
    "coinbasevalue" : 5001450000,
    "coinbaseflags" : "062f503253482f",
    "time" : 1332941492,
    "mintime" : 1332938361,
    "curtime" : 1332941492,
    "bits" : "1a0b3287"
}

Roughly 10% of tx volume includes a fee of some token amount.

p2pool works fine with modified bitcoind.  I have noticed no errors, changes in payout, increase in stales, or reduction reported hashpower.
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March 29, 2012, 08:16:35 AM
 #46

One related question.  Is it possible to have bitcoind create a tx but not broadcast it?  If so is it then part of the memorypool?  If not could bitcoind be modified to make it part of the memorypool?  Essentially I want the ability to include a tx in a block that hasn't been broadcasted (coin melting).

A problem with this would be what to do if you create one of these 'melt' transactions, but don't manage to mine a block before shutting down bitcoind.  The transaction is stored in the wallet along with any other pending transactions.  The wallet format doesn't currently store whether a transaction is "secret" or not.  It could do, but that would make the wallet format incompatible with standard client wallet files.

A simple solution would be for the client never to broadcast any transactions that you create on the client while in the new mode.  The wallet already has a field for each transaction which says whether you created it or not.  Another would be to have a threshold, and never broadcast any of your transactions which have a fee over a certain amount.

Given this, do you have any further thoughts on how you want this feature to work?

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March 30, 2012, 12:07:17 AM
 #47

One related question.  Is it possible to have bitcoind create a tx but not broadcast it?  If so is it then part of the memorypool?  If not could bitcoind be modified to make it part of the memorypool?  Essentially I want the ability to include a tx in a block that hasn't been broadcasted (coin melting).
Yes, it's possible, but not secure enough.

1. If your block becomes orphaned, someone will pick this TX and take fees.
2. Big miners can cooperate and intentionally invalidate blocks with unusually high fees to pick them up and split profits.

Otherwise the idea is good.

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net ~ 3600 GH/s, Both payment schemes, instant payout, no invalid blocks !
Coming soon: ICBIT Trading platform
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March 30, 2012, 12:44:01 AM
 #48

Yes, it's possible, but not secure enough.

1. If your block becomes orphaned, someone will pick this TX and take fees.
2. Big miners can cooperate and intentionally invalidate blocks with unusually high fees to pick them up and split profits.

Otherwise the idea is good.

Good points.  Guess there's no point implementing it then...

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March 30, 2012, 09:12:03 AM
 #49

Yes, it's possible, but not secure enough.

1. If your block becomes orphaned, someone will pick this TX and take fees.
2. Big miners can cooperate and intentionally invalidate blocks with unusually high fees to pick them up and split profits.

Otherwise the idea is good.

And what's the difference between this big miners cooperation an the cooperation needed for a 51 % attack?

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March 30, 2012, 09:13:15 AM
 #50

Yes, it's possible, but not secure enough.

1. If your block becomes orphaned, someone will pick this TX and take fees.
2. Big miners can cooperate and intentionally invalidate blocks with unusually high fees to pick them up and split profits.

Otherwise the idea is good.

And what's the difference between this big miners cooperation an the cooperation needed for a 51 % attack?

None.  But point 1 doesn't need cooperation at all.

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March 30, 2012, 09:36:08 AM
 #51

But if I'm not wrong the % of orphan blocks is very low

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March 30, 2012, 10:10:20 AM
 #52

Yes, it's possible, but not secure enough.

1. If your block becomes orphaned, someone will pick this TX and take fees.
2. Big miners can cooperate and intentionally invalidate blocks with unusually high fees to pick them up and split profits.

Otherwise the idea is good.
And what's the difference between this big miners cooperation an the cooperation needed for a 51 % attack?
"Simple" 51% attack doesn't allows them to redeem your TXes, but with "coin melting" it becomes possible. And it looks a bit less evil (just kidding).

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net ~ 3600 GH/s, Both payment schemes, instant payout, no invalid blocks !
Coming soon: ICBIT Trading platform
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April 30, 2012, 12:36:48 AM
 #53

What's the benefit of "coin melting"?
If you just want to merge multiple "junk" inputs to one output, why do you add any tx fee at all?
dooglus
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April 30, 2012, 01:34:50 AM
 #54

What's the benefit of "coin melting"?
If you just want to merge multiple "junk" inputs to one output, why do you add any tx fee at all?

I imagine you only use 'coin melting' if the accepted method of calculating which coins are 'tainted' only looks at inputs and outputs, and ignores transaction fees.

If coin melting ever becomes popular then it will stop being effective, as the taint calculations start taking it into account.

DeathAndTaxes
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April 30, 2012, 02:02:15 AM
 #55

What's the benefit of "coin melting"?
If you just want to merge multiple "junk" inputs to one output, why do you add any tx fee at all?

I imagine you only use 'coin melting' if the accepted method of calculating which coins are 'tainted' only looks at inputs and outputs, and ignores transaction fees.

If coin melting ever becomes popular then it will stop being effective, as the taint calculations start taking it into account.

Unlikely unless you want to bankrupt miners by considering their block rewards tainted.
btharper
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August 20, 2012, 04:55:29 AM
 #56

What's the benefit of "coin melting"?
If you just want to merge multiple "junk" inputs to one output, why do you add any tx fee at all?
I imagine you only use 'coin melting' if the accepted method of calculating which coins are 'tainted' only looks at inputs and outputs, and ignores transaction fees.

If coin melting ever becomes popular then it will stop being effective, as the taint calculations start taking it into account.
Unlikely unless you want to bankrupt miners by considering their block rewards tainted.
It may be possible to analyze based on how much fee they're giving away. If a miner accepts a 0.001 BTC tainted fee then it's taint might negligibly increase. If a miner accepts a 3 BTC tx fee with no outputs, then the coin is probably being melted.

Losses from orphaned blocks might just be part of the cost of business for this type of transaction. I could also see it as an incentive to melt slowly as well.
dooglus
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August 20, 2012, 11:01:17 PM
 #57

Is this bounty still available?  It wouldn't be hard to implement if there's still interest in it.

Luke-Jr
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August 20, 2012, 11:18:57 PM
 #58

Is this bounty still available?  It wouldn't be hard to implement if there's still interest in it.
I did it a long time ago. It's pretty much obsolete now, though.

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