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Author Topic: Bitcoin, trust and reversals  (Read 871 times)
SMB-2525
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August 11, 2014, 02:02:03 PM
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I suspect this topic has been beat to death but my search is coming up empty. Please point me in the right direction.

I recently purchased a little BTC. Because I am untrusted, I had to go get cash, exchange the cash for a vanilla card , and then transfer the vanilla card number to the seller. It all went smoothly.

Apparently, the issue with trust relates to the ease of reversing payments for BTC. My guess this is because there is no way to independently verify the address to which the BTC are sent is mine. Therefore, the seller can never prove delivery. One of the bloggers criticised BTC for this reason - there is no way to prove delivery of BTC. She mocked the BTC community because the proposals to address this problem and establish trust look very similar to the current federal system.

Is that the essence of the problem untrusted BTC recipients face?
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DubFX
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August 11, 2014, 02:05:11 PM
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Ask for small transaction from the target address to your address and viola, you have a proof? Or request an signed message.
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August 11, 2014, 02:09:15 PM
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Ask for small transaction from the target address to your address and viola, you have a proof? Or request an signed message.

Agree, I think signing combined with a trusted repository is the solution. This has to have been discussed already and I am not finding it.
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August 11, 2014, 02:15:07 PM
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Ask for small transaction from the target address to your address and viola, you have a proof? Or request an signed message.

Agree, I think signing combined with a trusted repository is the solution. This has to have been discussed already and I am not finding it.
It is an solution so i don't know why you're asking for more Tongue
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August 11, 2014, 08:41:52 PM
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I believe the OP is referring to reversal policies by payment processors. As far as I know, the issue isn't necessarily that receipt of BTC is "proven" but that payment processors don't want to put policies in place to address these issues, they would rather prohibit these exchanges altogether. I can think of several ways one might put in safeguards against this type of fraud, but until conventional payment processors put a method in place to contest these fraudulent claims, your fiat will be in danger of being taken away from you.

Don't hold your breath.

Still around.
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August 14, 2014, 01:20:30 AM
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Ask for small transaction from the target address to your address and viola, you have a proof? Or request an signed message.
Asking for a small transaction to your address would likely come off as a scam. A signed message would work to prove the other person has funds, however it does not prove that the other person will actually sent the BTC when they receive payment. The best course of action is to use escrow so both parties are protected.
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August 14, 2014, 01:27:09 AM
 #7

I suspect this topic has been beat to death but my search is coming up empty. Please point me in the right direction.

I recently purchased a little BTC. Because I am untrusted, I had to go get cash, exchange the cash for a vanilla card , and then transfer the vanilla card number to the seller. It all went smoothly.

Apparently, the issue with trust relates to the ease of reversing payments for BTC. My guess this is because there is no way to independently verify the address to which the BTC are sent is mine. Therefore, the seller can never prove delivery. One of the bloggers criticised BTC for this reason - there is no way to prove delivery of BTC. She mocked the BTC community because the proposals to address this problem and establish trust look very similar to the current federal system.

Is that the essence of the problem untrusted BTC recipients face?

In fact you can prove that you are the owner of a particular address by signing a message from that address.  However, I think the issue with reversals is that VISA or whatever fiat company you're dealing with isn't going to know how to properly investigate these sorts of claims and so they'll likely reverse the transaction on little to no evidence.  I really think the issue is with the bitcoin community not trusting the pay company, not the other way around.
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August 14, 2014, 08:48:56 AM
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how small transaction would likely come off as a scam?
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August 14, 2014, 08:46:56 PM
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how small transaction would likely come off as a scam?

Your question is too vague to answer.  Can you fill in some details or context or start a new thread?
DubFX
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August 15, 2014, 10:21:31 AM
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how small transaction would likely come off as a scam?

Your question is too vague to answer.  Can you fill in some details or context or start a new thread?
I've seen people scam for 0.003BTC wich is really small ammount and it was still "worth it" for them.
So use escrow or trade with trusted parties.
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