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Author Topic: Transferring out of Bitcoin  (Read 2045 times)
jdany
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August 16, 2014, 10:53:25 AM
 #1

I'm trying to figure out what stage is set here.
There are a lot of companies accepting bitcoins in pretty nice volumes.
Are they transferring out to fiat as soon as they make a sale?
Are they waiting until a certain day of the month and dumping coins?

I read that overstock made a deal with coinbase to handle the transfers immediately to dollars, but I also read they were going to keep a certain number of coins too.

Are the markets too thin to absorb large dumps of coin back into dollars?
If these companies were more transparent about when they'd be dumping coins, would it offset these slides we've been seeing?

Since Dell can't pay its employees in Bitcoin or buy its advertising in Bitcoin, there is a need to get back into dollars.
But, until advertising agencies and employees accept it, the massive flow OUT of bitcoins is going to be pretty rough.

Just thinking outloud.
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August 16, 2014, 11:15:32 AM
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I'm trying to figure out what stage is set here.
There are a lot of companies accepting bitcoins in pretty nice volumes.
Are they transferring out to fiat as soon as they make a sale?
Are they waiting until a certain day of the month and dumping coins?

Since Dell can't pay its employees in Bitcoin or buy its advertising in Bitcoin, there is a need to get back into dollars.
But, until advertising agencies and employees accept it, the massive flow OUT of bitcoins is going to be pretty rough.

However, you have to remember that companies like Dell don't rely exclusively on Bitcoin, so they don't need to convert all of the Bitcoin to fiat - their fiat payments more than cover the costs of doing business. That being said, I can't say if most of the companies accepting Bitcoins actually keep them or not.

However, I have been seeing a rather positive sentiment regarding company adoption of Bitcoin - which if anything should be leading to an increase in price (which is exactly the opposite of the case. I'm not sure whether the market is adequately handling the exchange of coins in the same volumes as being accepted as payment by companies but thus far it hasn't really made a big overall impact, unless you assume that the recent $100 USD fall is a result of that.
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August 16, 2014, 11:16:28 AM
 #3

what we need to do is to figure out what services/products those "dumping coin companies" are purchasing with fiat

and make new services/products which accept bitcoin in a competitive price/quality range

or make old companies accept bitcoin

the base is that we need to make them circulate the money instead of dumping it!

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August 17, 2014, 03:04:30 PM
 #4

I'm trying to figure out what stage is set here.
There are a lot of companies accepting bitcoins in pretty nice volumes.
Are they transferring out to fiat as soon as they make a sale?
Are they waiting until a certain day of the month and dumping coins?

Since Dell can't pay its employees in Bitcoin or buy its advertising in Bitcoin, there is a need to get back into dollars.
But, until advertising agencies and employees accept it, the massive flow OUT of bitcoins is going to be pretty rough.

However, you have to remember that companies like Dell don't rely exclusively on Bitcoin, so they don't need to convert all of the Bitcoin to fiat - their fiat payments more than cover the costs of doing business. That being said, I can't say if most of the companies accepting Bitcoins actually keep them or not.

However, I have been seeing a rather positive sentiment regarding company adoption of Bitcoin - which if anything should be leading to an increase in price (which is exactly the opposite of the case. I'm not sure whether the market is adequately handling the exchange of coins in the same volumes as being accepted as payment by companies but thus far it hasn't really made a big overall impact, unless you assume that the recent $100 USD fall is a result of that.


They have a much bigger need to convert to dollars than to hang onto BTC.
Most companies who are not BTC advocates, or activists will not hold onto coins for investment.  It's no different to them than any other currency.  They're benefiting the business that comes with being an early acceptor.
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August 17, 2014, 03:07:42 PM
 #5

what we need to do is to figure out what services/products those "dumping coin companies" are purchasing with fiat

and make new services/products which accept bitcoin in a competitive price/quality range

or make old companies accept bitcoin

the base is that we need to make them circulate the money instead of dumping it!

BINGO.
Hopefully, you won't have to keep converting to USD or other currencies.
You can just keep the value in BTC once it's there.
But, until you have wide acceptance, conversion will just be part of the game.  The more conversions that need to happen, the more companies will need to sell BTC, to keep the gears turning.

Very interesting discussion.
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August 17, 2014, 04:11:21 PM
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Since some companies, such as retail stores, have to replace the goods they sell (by receiving bitcoin) by new ones, they need to convert bitcoin to their currency. Consequently they should dump the received bitcoins. How much time it takes for them to dump varies for every company and depends on different factors, such as how many times they replenish their stock in a week, or their account procedure.

A good solution for preventing them to dump bitcoin is making bitcoin more widespread, so these companies can buy new products for their stocks by bitcoin.
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August 17, 2014, 04:19:33 PM
 #7

I'm trying to figure out what stage is set here.
There are a lot of companies accepting bitcoins in pretty nice volumes.
Are they transferring out to fiat as soon as they make a sale?
Are they waiting until a certain day of the month and dumping coins?
A lot of the major companies are selling their BTC for fiat as soon as they receive it from sales. The reason for this is because they have expenses based in fiat so they have to use fiat to pay these expenses.

When a consumer pays in bitcoin he will have had to had purchased the bitcoin somehow in the past. It would not be unusual for someone to buy more bitcoin then what they spend so the net effect would be that more bitcoin would be purchased.
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August 17, 2014, 04:30:02 PM
 #8

When a consumer pays in bitcoin he will have had to had purchased the bitcoin somehow in the past. It would not be unusual for someone to buy more bitcoin then what they spend so the net effect would be that more bitcoin would be purchased.

I agree that people may buy a little extra bitcoin than they need for a particular transaction, which would have a slightly positive effect on price.  If they hold that bitcoin for any length of time, that may also help a little.  But said bitcoin could also come from mining, which would have a net negative effect on price.
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August 17, 2014, 04:53:31 PM
 #9

The big companies that are working with payment processors like Bitpay or Coinbase, don't even see the bitcoin.  The BTC actually goes straight to  the processor and the processor then gives the company the fiat equivalent depending on the exchange rate at the time. 
So, in actuality a lot of the BTC being spent at these places are probably being kept as BTC except for the selling that Coinbase or Bitpay need to do for normal business operations. 
I believe a company does have the option to keep some or all revenue in btc if they choose, like Overstock does.
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August 18, 2014, 08:20:11 AM
 #10

I'm trying to figure out what stage is set here.
There are a lot of companies accepting bitcoins in pretty nice volumes.
Are they transferring out to fiat as soon as they make a sale?
Are they waiting until a certain day of the month and dumping coins?

I read that overstock made a deal with coinbase to handle the transfers immediately to dollars, but I also read they were going to keep a certain number of coins too.

Are the markets too thin to absorb large dumps of coin back into dollars?
If these companies were more transparent about when they'd be dumping coins, would it offset these slides we've been seeing?

Since Dell can't pay its employees in Bitcoin or buy its advertising in Bitcoin, there is a need to get back into dollars.
But, until advertising agencies and employees accept it, the massive flow OUT of bitcoins is going to be pretty rough.

Just thinking outloud.

Dell probably have a merchant account with bitpay or coinbase where the payment processing companies will do either monthly or weekly settlement with them.
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August 18, 2014, 11:15:19 AM
 #11

The big companies that are working with payment processors like Bitpay or Coinbase, don't even see the bitcoin.  The BTC actually goes straight to  the processor and the processor then gives the company the fiat equivalent depending on the exchange rate at the time. 
So, in actuality a lot of the BTC being spent at these places are probably being kept as BTC except for the selling that Coinbase or Bitpay need to do for normal business operations. 
I believe a company does have the option to keep some or all revenue in btc if they choose, like Overstock does.

Correct. The companies have incentives to keep some of their revenue in btc. The 1% charge which Coinbase applies is only for cashing out in fiat.
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August 18, 2014, 02:54:20 PM
 #12

Bitcoin is a payment system and it has done its job regardless of whether the merchant exchanges for fiat or keeps the coins. Don't worry. Merchants will cash out less as adoption grows.

Buy stuff on Amazon at a discount with bitcoins or convert Amazon points to bitcoins: Purse.io
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August 18, 2014, 07:02:29 PM
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Merchants gonna merch. We still live in a fiat world so they are forced to cash out anyway to pay for bills and other debts.
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August 18, 2014, 07:21:59 PM
 #14

It would be stakeholder related suicide for a company to hold the BTC... I mean a good company doesn't hold much fiat, so why would it hold the BTC>

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August 18, 2014, 08:07:29 PM
 #15

I'm trying to figure out what stage is set here.
There are a lot of companies accepting bitcoins in pretty nice volumes.
Are they transferring out to fiat as soon as they make a sale?
Are they waiting until a certain day of the month and dumping coins?

Since Dell can't pay its employees in Bitcoin or buy its advertising in Bitcoin, there is a need to get back into dollars.
But, until advertising agencies and employees accept it, the massive flow OUT of bitcoins is going to be pretty rough.

However, you have to remember that companies like Dell don't rely exclusively on Bitcoin, so they don't need to convert all of the Bitcoin to fiat - their fiat payments more than cover the costs of doing business. That being said, I can't say if most of the companies accepting Bitcoins actually keep them or not.

However, I have been seeing a rather positive sentiment regarding company adoption of Bitcoin - which if anything should be leading to an increase in price (which is exactly the opposite of the case. I'm not sure whether the market is adequately handling the exchange of coins in the same volumes as being accepted as payment by companies but thus far it hasn't really made a big overall impact, unless you assume that the recent $100 USD fall is a result of that.


Well companies should do their main business and not hold some money just to speculate will be 10 times more in a year. Their owners give them money to do what ever they doing and what they are godo at,  not something else.

So yes, of course they are spending this btc to buy materials and pay workers. This si what money is for. If you want BTC is something people when get hold, then should not be called money, and mass adoption will never happen.

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August 19, 2014, 11:38:44 AM
 #16

The only time I buy currency is when I visit another country.
When I leave, I exchange that currency for something that is spendable.
Just like us in the beginning, Dell doesn't have options to spend the BTC once it has traded it for goods.
Dell exchanges it for something spendable.

I buy gold as an investment.
I buy stocks as investments.

About 90% of my BTC purchases have been investments.
The rest I've bought specifically to make purchases.

We're watching the market in real-time experiment with BTC and see where it ends up.

why they're accepting it:
1) They get sales they would otherwise not have because they are providing "bitcoin people" a place to spend their bitcoins.
2) On a $1000 purchase, it's cheaper to accept bitcoins than credit cards.
3) They get free exposure from people who keep citing them as an example of vendors accepting bitcoin.
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August 20, 2014, 05:14:53 AM
 #17

It is going to be important that pioneering merchant adopters help create downstream adoption amongst their stakeholders such as vendors and employees
Gonna take several years to play out

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August 20, 2014, 12:54:43 PM
 #18

why they're accepting it:
1) They get sales they would otherwise not have because they are providing "bitcoin people" a place to spend their bitcoins.
2) On a $1000 purchase, it's cheaper to accept bitcoins than credit cards.
3) They get free exposure from people who keep citing them as an example of vendors accepting bitcoin.

+10

You are absolutely right. Dell doesn't accept bitcoin because she believes in bitcoin, because the currency brings him sales !
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August 21, 2014, 01:35:05 PM
 #19

what we need to do is to figure out what services/products those "dumping coin companies" are purchasing with fiat

and make new services/products which accept bitcoin in a competitive price/quality range

or make old companies accept bitcoin

the base is that we need to make them circulate the money instead of dumping it!

Exactly,providing services and products relevant to those companies may well be the solution in keeping those transfers within reach rather than having them transfered to fiat.

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August 23, 2014, 10:55:25 AM
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It is going to be important that pioneering merchant adopters help create downstream adoption amongst their stakeholders such as vendors and employees
Gonna take several years to play out

 This is going to gain steam as more merchants adopt bitcoin and its advantages become well known.
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