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El Cabron
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March 27, 2012, 11:41:09 AM
 #1

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Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
Trolling
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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March 27, 2012, 11:51:06 AM
 #2

TyGrr-Bot (GLBSE)

TyGrr-Bot is an automated arbitrage trading system TyGrr Virtual Industries has been working on in its laboratory for the last 2 months. This bot will trade at different exchanges and in different currencies to maximize profitability.

This bot is designed to only make a trade if profit is guaranteed. This bot does not use an algorithm to guess the future price of BTC. TyGrr Bot is extremely fast insuring it will have access to the best trades.
We expect to be fully operational in one week and expect to be paying dividends in 2 to 3 weeks.  This is not guaranteed.

We are now selling TyGrr-Bot bonds on GLBSE at the rate of 1BTC for 1 TyGrr-Bot bond.
Dividends will be paid weekly around 6 PM Thai time and in the form of BTC.

The rate of dividend is not guaranteed and will be reflective of the returns generated that week minus operating costs.

To operate trades effectively we will need to hold large amounts of BTC and currency on the exchanges. This is why we are selling such a high amount of bonds.

We will be trading and holding USD, EUR, GBP, THB, CYN, SLL, and BTC.

I will be happy to answer any and all questions.

Thank you,
Chaang-Noi  (CEO of TyGrr Virtual Industries)


It is a very good idea overall, and I believe it will make an excellent contribution to the Bitcoin market if it's indeed profitable and (hence) sustainable.

But is it very practical really? The gross gain has to exceed (trading fee + deposit fee + withdrawing fee) to make any profits. Unless you have some unique ways to greatly reduce or eliminate some part of the fees. Undecided

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March 27, 2012, 12:07:32 PM
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Yeah, we are able to get rid of some of the fees. Nice to have friends in high places:/

The costs of the fees will clearly be calculated in part of the trade. We have done some projects using past data and we think this will be very worth while. This is why we have spent so much time and effort.

Thanks.

Thanks for your quick reply. Smiley This bot must have lots of efforts involved in.

I'm sorry I still have some questions. I may even ask more questions in the future. At what kind of degree of financial disclosure will you provide? Will there be a website collecting data of daily trades and the cost? Thanks.

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March 27, 2012, 12:09:38 PM
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So many cool IPOs, so little spare BTC to buy them... Sad
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March 27, 2012, 12:37:01 PM
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Interesting  Grin

@ friedcat

If you have a look at http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ you'll easily find an awful lot of price differences that could easily be exploited if you have the ability to withdraw etc in different currencies.

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March 27, 2012, 12:51:03 PM
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Yeah, we are able to get rid of some of the fees. Nice to have friends in high places:/

The costs of the fees will clearly be calculated in part of the trade. We have done some projects using past data and we think this will be very worth while. This is why we have spent so much time and effort.

Thanks.

Thanks for your quick reply. Smiley This bot must have lots of efforts involved in.

I'm sorry I still have some questions. I may even ask more questions in the future. At what kind of degree of financial disclosure will you provide? Will there be a website collecting data of daily trades and the cost? Thanks.

That is a very good question. I understand that there needs to be accountability but also we don't want to give away all our secrets either. Honestly I don't know at this point.

Edit: We will report the daily volume and the profit. We will not report each trade.

Thanks for your answer. The daily volume and the profit without each trade is reasonable to me. Smiley

Then, could we have a brief idea of your plan about the percentage of net gains kept for yourself and that paid to us as dividends?

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March 27, 2012, 02:26:53 PM
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Any estimated profit from each share weekly according to past data?

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March 27, 2012, 04:51:25 PM
 #8

Watching.

There shouldn't be any delay in the IPO this time, one it hits the time it will launch.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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March 27, 2012, 04:57:12 PM
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 Undecided

Will there be an automated output to show your share holders current positions, expected/desired positions and trade history?

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March 27, 2012, 07:18:12 PM
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How are you going to get USD/EURO/etc funds? By selling BTC? How are you going to protect yourself against exchange rate swings in that case?

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March 28, 2012, 02:34:59 AM
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How are you going to get USD/EURO/etc funds? By selling BTC? How are you going to protect yourself against exchange rate swings in that case?

This risk will and can not be avoided. However it is not really an issue as we will be buying and selling all of the time. The only time it would become an issues is if/when we wind down the project.

Considering this is what brought LIF.X down, I would not underestimate exchange rate risk! You will effectively have assets in a mixture of BTC and fiat, but all your liability/equity will be in BTC. If would be less risk for you if you could raise funds in BTC and in fiat, or have some mechanism in place to hedge this risk.

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March 28, 2012, 03:01:15 AM
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We do not want to show our trade history. In the long run this will make us ineffective. However current positions from time to time will not be an issue. Desired positions can not really be reported. By the time the report comes it will already be trade history. We will only act when we can make a match and make some money.
How will posting trade history make you ineffective? Showing a trade history in this market is needed IMHO because anyone could say, "Hey guys/girls, we lost money this week...sorry". Desired trade positions can be monitored. Even in the volatility of the BTC market, if 'you're buying high and selling low', trade positions can be open for days/weeks.

There is no trading methodology here or than sell high and buy low.
Without a trading plan, other than this, you are bound to fail...

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March 28, 2012, 03:20:57 AM
 #13

Since it's a bond, when will you payback the capital ?

Watching.

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March 28, 2012, 03:59:40 AM
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Will you be attempting to do any triangular or multi-currency arbitrage or are you going to only stick to two-currency pair arbitrage?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 28, 2012, 04:07:15 AM
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Cool idea.  I've seen talk of arbitrage bots before.

Are you also buying back the bonds at like you are for the bank?

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March 28, 2012, 04:33:12 AM
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Will you be attempting to do any triangular or multi-currency arbitrage or are you going to only stick to two-currency pair arbitrage?

Yeah, that is the whole point of this. We are going to be the biggest fastest arb bot out there.


So both?  I am sure you will do what most other bots in the bitcoin world do by taking advantage of inefficiencies between two bitcoin exchanges.

Will you be taking advantage of different exchanges that use different currencies?  For example, an inefficiency exists between the BTC/USD on mtgox, BTC/RMB on btcchina.com, and USD/BTC at your bank.  If you are doing this triangular arbitrage how will you protect against slippage in the fiat currency exchange rate?


Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 28, 2012, 05:06:15 AM
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No offense, but this does not sound as well planned or safe as your other ventures. This sounds extremely risky. Sell high, buy low is one of the least effective trading (un)strategies around. You do not sound like you have significant trading experience.

Basket trading is complex. Basket trading with live currency, rather than leveraged pairs is even more complex, as there are multiple exchange rates to arbitrage.

There are several questions to consider:

Who developed the bot, and what is the developer's trading experience?

Are there any test results for the bot?

Has it run with live funds yet?

Will the bot be using leveraged funds to trade?

No trading strategy is 100% effective. In many cases, the closer it comes to 100% the more likely a market change will make the strategy ineffective. Extremely high Win/Loss ratios tend to be accompanied by significant losses (after a successful run)  A bot is only 90% as effective as the underlying strategy it uses.

I'm not saying it sounds like a bad deal, just very risky, and that some additional information might make for more informed decisions by investors.




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March 28, 2012, 05:19:49 AM
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No offense, but this does not sound as well planned or safe as your other ventures. This sounds extremely risky. Sell high, buy low is one of the least effective trading (un)strategies around. You do not sound like you have significant trading experience.
He is talking about arbitrage which is not the same as basket trading.

All arbitrage is is buying low and selling higher at at the same time on different markets.  There isn't much strategy to give besides having lots of liquidity in lots of markets.  Profits aren't guaranteed and will only last as long as a bunch of other others don't join the game, but assuming the fees are accounted for properly no money should be lost.

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March 28, 2012, 05:38:19 AM
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"If you are doing this triangular arbitrage how will you protect against slippage in the fiat currency exchange rate?"

We will not protect against slippage other than be relatively balanced in what we hold. Yen goes down dollars go up a small amount. The difference will be not noticeable.

If we do 2000 trades a day and make 50 cents a trade the 5$ we might lose in the currency slippage for the day wont really matter all that much.

This system is not perfectly efficient but it will be more efficient than what is in the wild now if funded fully.




Do you have your bot hooked into fiat trading exchanges so you can exchange USD for EUR or RMB, ect?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 28, 2012, 05:46:26 AM
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I do understand precisely what you're doing. Yes, I think you need to explain it better to the those investors who do not understand the nature of what your bot does.

Basket trading is one means of achieving arbitrage. In this case he's using a triangular arbitrage based on a basket of positions (i.e. in EUR, USD, JPY, BTC, etc etc) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage

If you're suggesting that the bot will be trading 100% real time, and never hold a position on any currency then I will concede it is not basket trading. As soon as the bot has a bunch of USD or a bunch of BTC or EUR, it's got a position, and really - two - long one, short the other. This is where the risk is.

Also, as other arbitrage bots have seen the ban hammer from exchanges, what assurances do you have that yours will not?

I'm not trying to derail your project in any way. I am inclined to consider investing in a project like this. This, as pitched, sounds risky. ForEx trading is inherently risky, but this sounds more so. Perhaps if you provide more detail, and performance evidence, it wouldn't sound so risky Smiley


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March 28, 2012, 06:02:49 AM
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"If you are doing this triangular arbitrage how will you protect against slippage in the fiat currency exchange rate?"

We will not protect against slippage other than be relatively balanced in what we hold. Yen goes down dollars go up a small amount. The difference will be not noticeable.

If we do 2000 trades a day and make 50 cents a trade the 5$ we might lose in the currency slippage for the day wont really matter all that much.

This system is not perfectly efficient but it will be more efficient than what is in the wild now if funded fully.




Do you have your bot hooked into fiat trading exchanges so you can exchange USD for EUR or RMB, ect?

At this time no. We can do this work by hand. No need to risk safety for speed in this case.

OK.  Triangular arbitration has a lot of potential with bitcoin.  Looking at exchanges that are denominated in the minor and exotic currencies shows that there is a lot of inefficiency in those markets.  The problem is the volume.

Since you will be exchanging fiat currencies by hand I assume you will not be doing triangular arbitrage as all three currency exchanges need to occur simultaneously or else you have a risk of price change.  It seems like you will be sticking with two-currency arbitrage and taking advantage of inefficiencies between bitcoin exchanges.  For more information on three or multi currency arbitrage you can read this pdf on the subject.

A way to hook in a bot is to use Interactive Brokers.  I unfortunately do not have the capital to open up an account with them, but their API is really nice.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 28, 2012, 06:05:26 AM
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Also, as other arbitrage bots have seen the ban hammer from exchanges, what assurances do you have that yours will not?
I wasn't aware of that anyone had been banned.  Seems kind of strange to ban someone for bringing liquidity to your market while paying you fees...

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March 28, 2012, 06:07:44 AM
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Also, as other arbitrage bots have seen the ban hammer from exchanges, what assurances do you have that yours will not?
I wasn't aware of that anyone had been banned.  Seems kind of strange to ban someone for brining liquidity to your market while paying you fees...

I also have not heard of any bots being banned.  I did hear that some were disabled because they were inputting the wrong password to log in.  Also, mtgox sent emails to those accounts using its API that the authentication was going to change on March 1, but they did not ban any trading bots.  That is what an API is for.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 28, 2012, 08:18:13 AM
 #24

Just one question really.


How do account for volume/depth between exchanges?


I.E.

MTGOX  1000 BTC @ 5 USD
EXCHX     10 BTC @ 4 USD

etc...


I can see it on a small scale but not a large scale and not to mention all the competition from all the other bots trying to do the same thing.




Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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March 28, 2012, 06:07:18 PM
 #25

Well performance evidence will only be provided to people who want to buy into the company and not bond holders.
how much to buy into the company?

I didnt see any answers to this questions.
Who developed the bot, and what is the developer's trading experience?

Are there any test results for the bot?

Has it run with live funds yet?

one more question who else is in the company? I didnt see it mentioned anywhere in this thread.
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March 29, 2012, 06:23:07 AM
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How much to buy in? A lot.

Other people involved are my partner the coder and someone who helps him.



Which means: guess it yourself. your imagination will be able to fill the hole. I have very good excuse to not disclosure anything that matters(privacy of course). I'm so popular on this forum and been paying so high rate of return, you just buy it.


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March 29, 2012, 06:27:45 AM
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How much to buy in? A lot.

Other people involved are my partner the coder and someone who helps him.



Which means: guess it yourself. your imagination will be able to fill the hole. I have very good excuse to not disclosure anything that matters(privacy of course). I'm so popular on this forum and been paying so high rate of return, you just buy it.



You either want to spread FUD and buy in at a low rate or you are a troll.  If you don't trust Goat then don't buy.  It is that simple.  I find it interesting that people argue so much to make strangers think they are right.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 29, 2012, 01:26:22 PM
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I see that you pay dividends at 6:00 PM, but on what day? Also, now that you have sold roughly 50% of the IPO, has the bot started trading?
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March 29, 2012, 05:45:59 PM
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How much to buy in? A lot.

Other people involved are my partner the coder and someone who helps him.



Which means: guess it yourself. your imagination will be able to fill the hole. I have very good excuse to not disclosure anything that matters(privacy of course). I'm so popular on this forum and been paying so high rate of return, you just buy it.



You either want to spread FUD and buy in at a low rate or you are a troll.  If you don't trust Goat then don't buy.  It is that simple.  I find it interesting that people argue so much to make strangers think they are right.

You know it very clear that you are now in a Ponzi scheme. And you still have not get back your principal. Confidence is very crucial for the Ponzi game. A real company will survival in a doubt, but a Ponzi won't. You know that and your angry expressed in your reply proved your awareness of your danger.  

When the famous popular ID collapse into a scamming scandal, I will review this post.

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March 29, 2012, 07:01:28 PM
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Other people involved are my partner the coder and someone who helps him.

Is one of them the guy who ran bitscalper ?

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March 29, 2012, 08:46:45 PM
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How much to buy in? A lot.

Other people involved are my partner the coder and someone who helps him.



Which means: guess it yourself. your imagination will be able to fill the hole. I have very good excuse to not disclosure anything that matters(privacy of course). I'm so popular on this forum and been paying so high rate of return, you just buy it.



You either want to spread FUD and buy in at a low rate or you are a troll.  If you don't trust Goat then don't buy.  It is that simple.  I find it interesting that people argue so much to make strangers think they are right.

You know it very clear that you are now in a Ponzi scheme. And you still have not get back your principal. Confidence is very crucial for the Ponzi game. A real company will survival in a doubt, but a Ponzi won't. You know that and your angry expressed in your reply proved your awareness of your danger.  

When the famous popular ID collapse into a scamming scandal, I will review this post.

What I said was angry?  I am not angry, I am just pointing out that if you don't trust Goat then don't buy it.  You don't need to go around thinking you are a bitcoin Superman trying to stop Lex Luther.  It is not that big of a deal.  If you trust Goat 100% then give him all your money.  If you don't trust at all then don't waste your time being worried about him.

All investments have an element of risk.  Bitcoin has a lot of risk from currency fluctuations.  There is also risk that Goat disappears.  He could get hit by a bus tomorrow and all the money invested is lost or put on hold until someone figures out how to pay people back.  I could get hit by a bus too and all my money is worthless.  A security flaw could be found in bitcoin rendering it useless, a bug in the bot could be discovered making it not be as efficient as previously thought, GLBSE could be hacked and all the bitcoins and/or shares could be stolen or lost, or a thousand other things.  You need to do your own due-diligence before investing in highly speculative things.

You need to understand that higher returns usually come with greater risk.  Goat has 3 main things on GLBSE, TyGrr, TyGrr-Bank, and now TyGrr-Bot.  TyGrr has been around for a few months now and has consistently paid dividends.  The market for TyGrr shares are fairly liquid.  TyGrr-Bank has been around only a few weeks and Goat said it will not last forever.  I would also not be surprised if the interest rate goes much lower for that bond.  The weekly rate of return for mining companies on GLBSE is about 0.1% so 2.5% is extremely good.  I should also point out that at a weekly rate of 0.1% a week would give a return similar to some high paying dividend stocks on the NYSE or NASDAQ, and stocks on the NYSE or NASDAQ have an astronomically greater volume than GLBSE.  Investors should expect a much higher rate of return due to risk in GLBSE more so than 0.1% a week.

TyGrr-Bot is brand new.  No one really knows if it will be profitable or not.  That is a risk that people are willing to take with small amounts of money.  It is normal that people will more likely take on more risk than is reasonably expected the lower the amount of money they invest, but that is no excuse to follow Goat around and spit out opinions on Goat's solvency.  Otherwise I also can spit out my opinions that you are nothing but a scamming manipulator trying to buy Goat's GLBSE investments at a low rate and sell high.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 30, 2012, 12:44:11 AM
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only 5BTC bids @ 0.999999   ?

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March 30, 2012, 12:45:59 AM
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only 5BTC bids @ 0.999999   ?

Of course since there are over 800 available for 1.

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March 30, 2012, 06:28:35 AM
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Goat has 3 main things on GLBSE, TyGrr, TyGrr-Bank, and now TyGrr-Bot.  TyGrr has been around for a few months now and has consistently paid dividends. 

IIRC, there is also BIB.Goat, which is a debt issue, now significantly owned by Goat. (slick creative opportunistic financing really)

Now, when I suggested this was risky, I did not suggest that Goat was attempting to scam anyone in any way. I was really trying to more careful determine the real risk involve in investment because I like the general idea.

What znort987 says is dead on. Honestly, with copumpkin talking about credit default swaps, the risk in this project sounds more attractive. I tend to think it has a high potential for spectacular failure, which could extend the risk to Goat's other ventures (this is my main concern, Goat's overall risk & solvency) but now, if I could hedge that risk with CDSes, I'd really consider taking a plunge. The fact is, if Goat and his team can pull TyGRR-Bot off, it's likely to be the proverbial cash bull!

Goat looks like he's been successful in his ventures, and while I have my questions with this one, all other things being equal, this has a high potential for success. The risk is, IMO, somewhat understated, but I am fairly conservative, too. YMMV

(also, I don't recall where I read about an arb-bot being banned, and I could have been mistaken, or somehow jumbled that idea in along w/bitscalper - but I sure thought I read it somewhere...hmm - however, a properly executed bot will in fact add liquidity to the exchanges, rather than take it, so it should be welcomed, IMO)

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March 30, 2012, 06:54:26 AM
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Goat has 3 main things on GLBSE, TyGrr, TyGrr-Bank, and now TyGrr-Bot.  TyGrr has been around for a few months now and has consistently paid dividends. 

IIRC, there is also BIB.Goat, which is a debt issue, now significantly owned by Goat. (slick creative opportunistic financing really)

Now, when I suggested this was risky, I did not suggest that Goat was attempting to scam anyone in any way. I was really trying to more careful determine the real risk involve in investment because I like the general idea.

What znort987 says is dead on. Honestly, with copumpkin talking about credit default swaps, the risk in this project sounds more attractive. I tend to think it has a high potential for spectacular failure, which could extend the risk to Goat's other ventures (this is my main concern, Goat's overall risk & solvency) but now, if I could hedge that risk with CDSes, I'd really consider taking a plunge. The fact is, if Goat and his team can pull TyGRR-Bot off, it's likely to be the proverbial cash bull!

Goat looks like he's been successful in his ventures, and while I have my questions with this one, all other things being equal, this has a high potential for success. The risk is, IMO, somewhat understated, but I am fairly conservative, too. YMMV

(also, I don't recall where I read about an arb-bot being banned, and I could have been mistaken, or somehow jumbled that idea in along w/bitscalper - but I sure thought I read it somewhere...hmm - however, a properly executed bot will in fact add liquidity to the exchanges, rather than take it, so it should be welcomed, IMO)

Where did copumpkin say this?

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March 30, 2012, 07:02:40 AM
 #36

He did not bring up Goat in particular. He is selling a CDS based on imsaguy's projects.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74552.0

The general talk is here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74586.0


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March 30, 2012, 07:05:03 AM
 #37

Goat has 3 main things on GLBSE, TyGrr, TyGrr-Bank, and now TyGrr-Bot.  TyGrr has been around for a few months now and has consistently paid dividends. 

IIRC, there is also BIB.Goat, which is a debt issue, now significantly owned by Goat. (slick creative opportunistic financing really)

Now, when I suggested this was risky, I did not suggest that Goat was attempting to scam anyone in any way. I was really trying to more careful determine the real risk involve in investment because I like the general idea.

What znort987 says is dead on. Honestly, with copumpkin talking about credit default swaps, the risk in this project sounds more attractive. I tend to think it has a high potential for spectacular failure, which could extend the risk to Goat's other ventures (this is my main concern, Goat's overall risk & solvency) but now, if I could hedge that risk with CDSes, I'd really consider taking a plunge. The fact is, if Goat and his team can pull TyGRR-Bot off, it's likely to be the proverbial cash bull!

Goat looks like he's been successful in his ventures, and while I have my questions with this one, all other things being equal, this has a high potential for success. The risk is, IMO, somewhat understated, but I am fairly conservative, too. YMMV

(also, I don't recall where I read about an arb-bot being banned, and I could have been mistaken, or somehow jumbled that idea in along w/bitscalper - but I sure thought I read it somewhere...hmm - however, a properly executed bot will in fact add liquidity to the exchanges, rather than take it, so it should be welcomed, IMO)

Where did copumpkin say this?

He is selling them now :/  Has a thread somewhere.

And yes, there is some risk to this project but I doubt all money will be lost. Odds are if the bot does not work out most if not all of the money will be returned. To lose a lot of money doing this will take a massive herrp-a-derrp somewhere.

Small exchanges are also a source of risk. The closing down of Tradehill is a good example...

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March 30, 2012, 10:41:23 AM
 #38

Goat has 3 main things on GLBSE, TyGrr, TyGrr-Bank, and now TyGrr-Bot.  TyGrr has been around for a few months now and has consistently paid dividends. 

IIRC, there is also BIB.Goat, which is a debt issue, now significantly owned by Goat. (slick creative opportunistic financing really)


BIB.goat is a debt of Goat to me, and subsequently assigned to BIB and listed as BIB.goat. The majority of the holdings are still on the books of BIB. Goat is up to date in his repayment of this debt issue. Actually, he has consistently paid ahead of time.

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March 30, 2012, 12:21:28 PM
 #39

I'd be interested either purchasing or investing in the bot. What would you consider selling it for?
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March 30, 2012, 12:37:48 PM
 #40

I'd be interested either purchasing or investing in the bot. What would you consider selling it for?

I would only sell part of it. If you are really interested PM a bid. However I would expect it to be rejected.

Can you describe what part youd be selling and what dollar amount you would value it at?
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March 30, 2012, 12:47:07 PM
 #41

I'd be interested either purchasing or investing in the bot. What would you consider selling it for?

I would only sell part of it. If you are really interested PM a bid. However I would expect it to be rejected.

Can you describe what part youd be selling and what dollar amount you would value it at?

No, it is not for sale. This is a silly discussion.

At any rate, if that discussion must happen, it's a discussion
worth having with your shareholders through a motion, I think Smiley


I believe they are bondholders, not shareholders.

Quote
We are now selling TyGrr-Bot bonds on GLBSE at the rate of 1BTC for 1 TyGrr-Bot bond

unless you are talking about the 3 actual shareholders that were mentioned earlier.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 30, 2012, 12:55:35 PM
 #42



When the famous popular ID collapse into a scamming scandal, I will review this post.


You don't need to go around thinking you are a bitcoin Superman trying to stop Lex Luther.  It is not that big of a deal.  If you trust Goat 100% then give him all your money.  If you don't trust at all then don't waste your time being worried about him.


What a fantastic mentor you are for telling me what to do. Thank you.

 But no.

You can summarize your opinion in a short pharze: shut up about Goat!

You have investment in the bill issued by the famous popular fairy and working-for-government-trustworthy ID, and the high rate of return very probably is coming from the capital investment from the people who came in later than than you, but not likely from the operation cash flow.

Any suspicious is a danger for your investment. A Ponzi scheme is vulnerable in nature, you know that. That is the reason why you  tell me shut up.

I guess you should follow the suggestion you gave yourself. you trust it, listen to it. If you don't, don't waste your time being worried about me.

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March 30, 2012, 01:14:40 PM
 #43



When the famous popular ID collapse into a scamming scandal, I will review this post.


You don't need to go around thinking you are a bitcoin Superman trying to stop Lex Luther.  It is not that big of a deal.  If you trust Goat 100% then give him all your money.  If you don't trust at all then don't waste your time being worried about him.


What a fantastic mentor you are for telling me what to do. Thank you.

 But no.

You can summarize your opinion in a short pharze: shut up about Goat!

You have investment in the bill issued by the famous popular fairy and working-for-government-trustworthy ID, and the high rate of return very probably is coming from the capital investment from the people who came in later than than you, but not likely from the operation cash flow.

Any suspicious is a danger for your investment. A Ponzi scheme is vulnerable in nature, you know that. That is the reason why you  tell me shut up.

I guess you should follow the suggestion you gave yourself. you trust it, listen to it. If you don't, don't waste your time being worried about me.


Actually I don't invest in IPOs or anything until I see a history of profits.  I am more worried about other risks of operation as described above rather than Goat's reputation right now.  Happy investing to you.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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March 30, 2012, 01:50:32 PM
 #44

If I were to sell I would talk with the two other shareholders. However I am sure the would say yes as it would have to be very worth our while for me to even talk with them. What we would sell is just a percent of future profits. We will not be sharing our code (unless you are highly trusted).

However, if anyone has a hole in their pocket they need to PM me.

Thanks.



pm sent
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March 31, 2012, 07:40:32 PM
 #45

@Goat:
So, is the trading bot already operational or are you waiting for all your initial shares being sold?
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March 31, 2012, 09:10:49 PM
 #46

@Goat:
So, is the trading bot already operational or are you waiting for all your initial shares being sold?

We expect to be fully operational in one week and expect to be paying dividends in 2 to 3 weeks.  This is not guaranteed.

Hasn't quiet been a week yet, but it doesn't seem like he is waiting for all the shares to sell.  Selling all of them would increase his ability to move more funds around, though.

Are you on track to be operational soon, Goat?

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March 31, 2012, 09:59:35 PM
 #47

I'm really liking all of the investing opportunities with your Goat. I've put all of my few measly coins into it, and I'm enjoying every bit of it. Now wouldn't be the time for you to just disappear though, just saying.

It is quite a way to capitalize on the discrepancies between btc-e and gox.

If you love me, you'd give me a Satoshi!
BTC - 1MSzGKh5znbrcEF2qTrtrWBm4ydH5eT49f
LTC - LYeJrmYQQvt6gRQxrDz66XTwtkdodx9udz
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April 02, 2012, 06:53:30 AM
 #48

When the famous popular ID collapse into a scamming scandal, I will review this post.


    - come back here and apologize publicly to goat in 6 months when it doesn't ?



OK

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April 03, 2012, 04:31:14 PM
 #49

this thread is becoming even more interesting.

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April 10, 2012, 02:39:20 AM
 #50

Still on track? Only two weeks in from OP but do you have an update on how things are going?
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April 10, 2012, 02:53:21 AM
 #51

Still on track? Only two weeks in from OP but do you have an update on how things are going?

It looks like there is a plan to delist from GLBSE and run independently.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76019.msg843038#msg843038

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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April 10, 2012, 03:04:33 AM
 #52

I will give you guys an update today. Starting a whole new exchange will be tricky and take time. However we will give the many people who want it a second option on how to invest that option. More soon. Thanks.

There is no reason why each company can't have its own exchange for its own shares.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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April 10, 2012, 03:20:18 AM
 #53

"If you are doing this triangular arbitrage how will you protect against slippage in the fiat currency exchange rate?"

We will not protect against slippage other than be relatively balanced in what we hold. Yen goes down dollars go up a small amount. The difference will be not noticeable.

If we do 2000 trades a day and make 50 cents a trade the 5$ we might lose in the currency slippage for the day wont really matter all that much.

This system is not perfectly efficient but it will be more efficient than what is in the wild now if funded fully.




Do you have your bot hooked into fiat trading exchanges so you can exchange USD for EUR or RMB, ect?

At this time no. We can do this work by hand. No need to risk safety for speed in this case.

OK.  Triangular arbitration has a lot of potential with bitcoin.  Looking at exchanges that are denominated in the minor and exotic currencies shows that there is a lot of inefficiency in those markets.  The problem is the volume.

Since you will be exchanging fiat currencies by hand I assume you will not be doing triangular arbitrage as all three currency exchanges need to occur simultaneously or else you have a risk of price change.  It seems like you will be sticking with two-currency arbitrage and taking advantage of inefficiencies between bitcoin exchanges.  For more information on three or multi currency arbitrage you can read this pdf on the subject.

A way to hook in a bot is to use Interactive Brokers.  I unfortunately do not have the capital to open up an account with them, but their API is really nice.

stochastic, do you know of any other brokers who offer API's besides IB? I've been looking for a while but without much luck.

Hope it goes well for you goat. A more efficient market created by arbitrage means spreads and price differences across brokers should reduce.

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April 10, 2012, 03:28:45 AM
 #54


stochastic, do you know of any other brokers who offer API's besides IB? I've been looking for a while but without much luck.

Hope it goes well for you goat. A more efficient market created by arbitrage means spreads and price differences across brokers should reduce.

I guess that depends on if you want some third-party tools for the API or you want to develop the tools yourself.  Most forex places would have some kind of API but you have to dig around if you want some that are already integrated into third party exchange platforms.  I like IB because you can trade lots of different kinds of platforms.

http://www.forex.com/forex-api.html

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=programInterface

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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April 15, 2012, 04:16:58 AM
 #55

How did the final bits go? On track for a dividend payment Tuesday?
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April 20, 2012, 12:03:37 AM
 #56

Has live testing begun?

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April 24, 2012, 12:16:49 PM
 #57

Has live testing begun?

If dividends are not paid on Tuesday I will be giving the bond holders the 50 BTC bonus bounty I promised my team for getting it ready by then.

So, expect something.

We are in live testing and it is making live trades. However since we are not really able to offer you a dividend of any real amount I'm giving you the 50 BTC bounty.

Thank you for waiting and also, whoever is making the price in BTC so stable please stop it!  Wink

Is there a possibility that some secretly built arbitraging bots are already there, competing with yours?

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April 24, 2012, 12:35:25 PM
 #58

So how does this work? Is this trade bot public to use? Or is the only option to buy bonds from you? I've got some coinage I may be looking to invest somewhere if the return is decent.

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April 24, 2012, 01:30:45 PM
 #59

Has live testing begun?

If dividends are not paid on Tuesday I will be giving the bond holders the 50 BTC bonus bounty I promised my team for getting it ready by then.

So, expect something.

We are in live testing and it is making live trades. However since we are not really able to offer you a dividend of any real amount I'm giving you the 50 BTC bounty.

Thank you for waiting and also, whoever is making the price in BTC so stable please stop it!  Wink

Is there a possibility that some secretly built arbitraging bots are already there, competing with yours?
There are several known and secret arbitrage bots that's running with high volumes, this one is not the first and probably not the last Smiley
//DeaDTerra
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April 26, 2012, 07:34:54 AM
 #60

Thanks for keeping your promise and pay the 50bc as dividends. The question now is, what is the next deadline target you are setting for launch? 

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April 30, 2012, 10:43:58 PM
 #61

How will "Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account" impact when this security starts to return value to its shareholders?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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May 01, 2012, 02:29:36 AM
 #62

How will "Funds “frozen” in TyGrr-Bot’s MtGox account" impact when this security starts to return value to its shareholders?

Wow, I guess this is it. The post is so long, and Goat seems didn't provide the full information, So I would like to just point out a very simple contradiction:


1. Goat claimed that he would go to the court to defend himself.
2. Less than one month ago, Goat declined to deliver the ID verification on GLBSE b/c he worried about the legal issues for an America selling stocks on GLBSE.

So, Goat, are you prepared to tell the court what you're doing or not?

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May 01, 2012, 02:33:00 AM
 #63

seems like he's going to have to one way or another...

all could have been avoided by just sending the requested identification... but no... pfft...

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May 01, 2012, 02:57:44 AM
 #64


We now expect the funds to be given back shortly as the documents that have recently been requested are being sent to Mt. Gox.

Wires will no longer be sent from Gox and all funds will be taken out in the form of BTC.

We would like to remind everyone that the account was AML verified before funds were sent and that a Mt. Gox staff member approved all actions before we made them.

Sending more documents to Mt. Gox is not a problem for us. Going to Japan for court would have been extreme in our opinion.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78596.0

Thank you.
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May 01, 2012, 05:28:48 AM
 #65

So whats going to happen to your bot and all of your shareholders?

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May 01, 2012, 07:25:22 PM
 #66

So whats going to happen to your bot and all of your shareholders?

I assume in a day or so once they look over the new documents everything will be back to normal. This is not a big deal, but everyone should know about the issue.
Can't you still run the bot on other exchanges? I know Gox is the biggest, but you didn't have ALL the money there did you?

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May 02, 2012, 07:18:25 AM
 #67

Awesome, does this mean the first "real" dividend payment will follow Tuesday?

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May 08, 2012, 08:16:13 AM
 #68

Another 50 coin dividend payout amongst all shares..

The bot not working yet?
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May 08, 2012, 08:20:39 AM
 #69

Goat mentioned in IRC yesterday that the dividend that came today would just be from BTC/USD trading, but the fact that it's 50BTC is odd.
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May 14, 2012, 09:46:12 PM
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Any news?
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May 14, 2012, 11:31:09 PM
 #71

Any news?

With the market being as stable as it is, I doubt there will be any until a little volatility comes back.

Is there a volatility chart somewhere? That'll give you a good indicator as to when you can expect some return from arbitrage.

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May 15, 2012, 02:38:39 AM
 #72

You should really be considering incorporating more than two currency pairs for this arbitrage.  There is plenty of opportunity with multiple currency arbitrage.  Such as USD -> RMB -> BTC -> USD

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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May 16, 2012, 04:26:57 AM
 #73


How goes it on the cash moving and bot operation?
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May 17, 2012, 03:33:02 AM
 #74

If anyone wants to see it in action (logs)

2012-05-15 17:21:14 $143.964659569053 $145.249864 29 $1.28520443094652 0.892722168616712% 2012-05-15 17:19:51 $24.8078978577366 $25.04148 5 $0.233582142263391 0.941563624628297% 2012-05-15 17:19:44 $24.8078978577366 $25.04148 5 $0.233582142263391 0.941563624628297% 2012-05-15 17:17:22 $4.95184347373661 $4.9985872438811 1 $0.0467437701444915 0.943967037577203% 2012-05-15 17:17:07 $9.89821362954383 $9.9894123470819 2 $0.0911987175380702 0.921365419572917% 2012-05-15 17:11:52 $4.94420003354383 $4.97078746903947 1 $0.0265874354956415 0.537749996263491% 2012-05-15 17:11:44 $4.94420003354383 $4.97078746903947 1 $0.0265874354956415 0.537749996263491% 2012-05-15 16:54:15 $163.472635105544 $164.293620142055 33 $0.820985036511047 0.502215576314035% 2012-05-15 16:46:05 $59.4383495895438 $59.7419373750212 12 $0.303587785477369 0.510760792609179% 2012-05-15 16:45:58 $59.4383495895438 $59.7419373750212 12 $0.303587785477369 0.510760792609179% 2012-05-15 16:44:08 $19.8062408215438 $19.9135541593294 4 $0.107313337785573 0.541815777928164% 2012-05-15 15:59:46 $4.94420003354383 $4.978586 1 $0.0343859664561723 0.695480891203459% 2012-05-15 15:59:37 $153.564607913544 $154.336166 31 $0.771558086456167 0.502432231579396% 2012-05-15 15:54:59 $173.380662297544 $174.25051 35 $0.869847702456127 0.501698223394345% 2012-05-15 15:54:51 $173.380662297544 $174.25051 35 $0.869847702456127 0.501698223394345% 2012-05-15 14:26:46 $4.96931940906195 $4.995886 1 $0.0265665909380477 0.534612262789979% 2012-05-15 14:26:35 $153.564607913544 $154.872466 31 $1.30785808645615 0.851666346970044% 2012-05-15 14:26:24 $173.380662297544 $174.85601 35 $1.47534770245611 0.850929788192997% 2012-05-15 14:26:04 $173.380662297544 $174.85601 35 $1.47534770245611 0.850929788192997%

Wish i knew what I was looking at.  Undecided
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May 17, 2012, 03:43:31 AM
 #75

It is not formatted really well...

But these are real trades, how much we made, how many btcs were involved and the margin of profit. it is set to be above .5% right now.

thanks

So is that showing you made 30 btc's in one day? When you say .5% what is that referring to exactly.

Looks awesome. 
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May 17, 2012, 03:55:46 AM
 #76

It is not formatted really well...

But these are real trades, how much we made, how many btcs were involved and the margin of profit. it is set to be above .5% right now.

thanks

So is that showing you made 30 btc's in one day? When you say .5% what is that referring to exactly.

Looks awesome. 

That is about 3 or 4 hours and no, not 30 BTC. I think more like 10 but also the dollar amount went up too.

It means that we need to make atleast .5% on the trade or we do not even bother.

Thx

(p.s. if anyone can make this data better to read it would be awesome!)



wow impressive.
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May 17, 2012, 04:05:27 AM
 #77

Code:
5/15/2012 17:21:14 $143.96 $145.25 29 $1.29 0.89%
5/15/2012 17:19:51 $24.81 $25.04 5 $0.23 0.94%
5/15/2012 17:19:44 $24.81 $25.04 5 $0.23 0.94%
5/15/2012 17:17:22 $4.95 $5.00 1 $0.05 0.94%
5/15/2012 17:17:07 $9.90 $9.99 2 $0.09 0.92%
5/15/2012 17:11:52 $4.94 $4.97 1 $0.03 0.54%
5/15/2012 17:11:44 $4.94 $4.97 1 $0.03 0.54%
5/15/2012 16:54:15 $163.47 $164.29 33 $0.82 0.50%
5/15/2012 16:46:05 $59.44 $59.74 12 $0.30 0.51%
5/15/2012 16:45:58 $59.44 $59.74 12 $0.30 0.51%
5/15/2012 16:44:08 $19.81 $19.91 4 $0.11 0.54%
5/15/2012 15:59:46 $4.94 $4.98 1 $0.03 0.70%
5/15/2012 15:59:37 $153.56 $154.34 31 $0.77 0.50%
5/15/2012 15:54:59 $173.38 $174.25 35 $0.87 0.50%
5/15/2012 15:54:51 $173.38 $174.25 35 $0.87 0.50%
5/15/2012 14:26:46 $4.97 $5.00 1 $0.03 0.53%
5/15/2012 14:26:35 $153.56 $154.87 31 $1.31 0.85%
5/15/2012 14:26:24 $173.38 $174.86 35 $1.48 0.85%
5/15/2012 14:26:04 $173.38 $174.86 35 $1.48 0.85%

$1,531.04 $1,541.35 $10.31 0.69%


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May 17, 2012, 04:18:08 AM
 #78

Bought some bonds  Grin
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May 17, 2012, 11:17:40 AM
 #79

Code:
5/15/2012 17:21:14 $143.96 $145.25 29 $1.29 0.89%
5/15/2012 17:19:51 $24.81 $25.04 5 $0.23 0.94%
5/15/2012 17:19:44 $24.81 $25.04 5 $0.23 0.94%
5/15/2012 17:17:22 $4.95 $5.00 1 $0.05 0.94%
5/15/2012 17:17:07 $9.90 $9.99 2 $0.09 0.92%
5/15/2012 17:11:52 $4.94 $4.97 1 $0.03 0.54%
5/15/2012 17:11:44 $4.94 $4.97 1 $0.03 0.54%
5/15/2012 16:54:15 $163.47 $164.29 33 $0.82 0.50%
5/15/2012 16:46:05 $59.44 $59.74 12 $0.30 0.51%
5/15/2012 16:45:58 $59.44 $59.74 12 $0.30 0.51%
5/15/2012 16:44:08 $19.81 $19.91 4 $0.11 0.54%
5/15/2012 15:59:46 $4.94 $4.98 1 $0.03 0.70%
5/15/2012 15:59:37 $153.56 $154.34 31 $0.77 0.50%
5/15/2012 15:54:59 $173.38 $174.25 35 $0.87 0.50%
5/15/2012 15:54:51 $173.38 $174.25 35 $0.87 0.50%
5/15/2012 14:26:46 $4.97 $5.00 1 $0.03 0.53%
5/15/2012 14:26:35 $153.56 $154.87 31 $1.31 0.85%
5/15/2012 14:26:24 $173.38 $174.86 35 $1.48 0.85%
5/15/2012 14:26:04 $173.38 $174.86 35 $1.48 0.85%

$1,531.04 $1,541.35 $10.31 0.69%




If this 3 hours are an average case. Then TyGrr-Bot could make about 560$ in a week, that is about 112BTC. And as said by Goat:

We will pay out 50%  We think that's more than fair really.     

About estimated profit, hard to say. Depends on market conditions:/

The expected dividends will be about 56BTC each week.

We will need a much more volatile market to make it more impressive. Sad

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May 23, 2012, 08:03:13 AM
 #80

Still a consolation prize of 50BTC this week. Sad
Would you consider attaching your bot to more smaller exchanges, since their price might be more volatile? Thanks.
Also, any news on other currencies than USD/BTC?

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May 29, 2012, 11:01:37 PM
 #81

Still a consolation prize of 50BTC this week. Sad
Would you consider attaching your bot to more smaller exchanges, since their price might be more volatile? Thanks.
Also, any news on other currencies than USD/BTC?

bot has been working and we are on all of the exchanges. we just need some movement... also i am in tlaks with a large investor to try to convert some of the tygrr-bot bonds into something else, this will significantly increase the dividend potential if this works out.

i will keep you updated.

thanks

No dividends nor updates?
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June 05, 2012, 01:22:09 AM
 #82

For the love of God, pump some money into that bot right now! The difference between MtGox and Intersango is $0.36 / BTC!
Here's your volatility; would you like fries with that?

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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June 05, 2012, 04:18:59 AM
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For the love of God, pump some money into that bot right now! The difference between MtGox and Intersango is $0.36 / BTC!
Here's your volatility; would you like fries with that?

Not to mention all that BTCchina money last week.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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June 05, 2012, 07:05:46 PM
 #84

On the first page of the thread you said you would report daily volume and profit.  We're you planning on doing this daily?
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June 13, 2012, 03:46:40 PM
 #85

On the first page of the thread you said you would report daily volume and profit.  We're you planning on doing this daily?

Lol no, I have better things to do. We might set up a website that reports this in real time automatically now that we have some price movement. Let us hope this keeps up.

Thanks

Hey how is the arbitrage bot doing? I was kinda expecting dividends yesterday since there has been quite a bit of movement and you mentioned the bot was already active on all exchanges.

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June 13, 2012, 04:25:17 PM
 #86

On the first page of the thread you said you would report daily volume and profit.  We're you planning on doing this daily?

Lol no, I have better things to do. We might set up a website that reports this in real time automatically now that we have some price movement. Let us hope this keeps up.

Thanks

Hey how is the arbitrage bot doing? I was kinda expecting dividends yesterday since there has been quite a bit of movement and you mentioned the bot was already active on all exchanges.

Yeah keep us updated man.  This is actually one of my favorite ideas on the glbse
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June 13, 2012, 07:06:05 PM
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The price for buying every Bitcoin is rising. harder and harder for Goat and Pirate40 to pay as high as previous to everyone, if Goat has sold big chunk of bitcoin before this rally.

The GLBSE is going to be in a "bear market"  in denomination of bitcoin( though it may be bull market if you convert the price into USD)

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June 13, 2012, 07:26:27 PM
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Also, for anyone who wondered, HorseRider likes to troll Goat's posts (and now that I said this here, probably mine).
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June 13, 2012, 07:46:20 PM
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Also, for anyone who wondered, HorseRider likes to troll Goat's posts (and now that I said this here, probably mine).

I find HorseRider's comments contrarian and informative.  Not everyone should be rooting for the home team.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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June 13, 2012, 07:52:35 PM
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Also, for anyone who wondered, HorseRider likes to troll Goat's posts (and now that I said this here, probably mine).
I find HorseRider's comments contrarian and informative.  Not everyone should be rooting for the home team.
In this case, they may be, and for the record, I don't hold TyGrr-Bot.  See the post history for said HorseRider.  Unless it has been deleted, you will understand why I felt compelled to point this out.
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June 13, 2012, 08:09:39 PM
 #91

Also, for anyone who wondered, HorseRider likes to troll Goat's posts (and now that I said this here, probably mine).
I find HorseRider's comments contrarian and informative.  Not everyone should be rooting for the home team.
In this case, they may be, and for the record, I don't hold TyGrr-Bot.  See the post history for said HorseRider.  Unless it has been deleted, you will understand why I felt compelled to point this out.

I have read them all, I also called HorseRider a troll before but then I got a PM from them and HorseRider seemed truly concerned.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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June 15, 2012, 11:44:00 PM
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Hope your bot is working, volitile times on the horizon hopefully
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June 16, 2012, 01:13:14 AM
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I can not wait to see the results for the past two weeks of trading! I run a very simple bot, no where near what arb trading can produce, on just Gox and this week has been heavenly.

We will see a real dividend payment this week, right Goat? Not a 50 btc hand out and a pat on the head. Bots been running since May 23rd on all exchanges.

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June 17, 2012, 05:54:33 AM
 #94

I can not wait to see the results for the past two weeks of trading! I run a very simple bot, no where near what arb trading can produce, on just Gox and this week has been heavenly.

We will see a real dividend payment this week, right Goat? Not a 50 btc hand out and a pat on the head. Bots been running since May 23rd on all exchanges.
Same

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June 19, 2012, 06:27:48 PM
 #95

Uhmm, more info for your shareholders?

Where is this world leading us? Our Thai worker is in Cambodia enjoying some holidays and we, the western shareholders, waiting submissively for some news?
Now i understand all the euro/dolar problems Grin

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June 22, 2012, 05:50:38 AM
 #96

Looking forward to news.

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June 22, 2012, 01:17:39 PM
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If we decide to keep the shares, do we get a portion of the profits if the bot is sold?
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June 22, 2012, 01:28:09 PM
 #98

If we decide to keep the shares, do we get a portion of the profits if the bot is sold?

No, I personally do not even get a portion of the profits if the bot is sold. This was a team effort and the tech side of the team kept all rights to the bot but I know they want to sell to cover lost time assuming its a fair bid. They did a massive amount of work.

Also keep in mind this is a bond and not a stock in a company.



Doh, that's right it is a bond.  Ok
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June 22, 2012, 01:30:21 PM
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So you wanted to trade 100% secure arbitrages only (like when there's an offer for 1 BTC @ 5 USD on A and someone sells 1 BTC for 4.90 USD on B) but still were "outbotted" by others and/or only traded close to the exchange's fee margins? From the logs you posted it seems like the bot would snipe any trade possibility above 0.5% (which would likely be the MtGox fee), so a lot of fees are to be expected.

To be honest, this should have been communicated earlier - you claimed to:
Trade more currencies than only USD trades (EUR<-->BTC<-->EUR for example still has some nice arbitrage opportunities from time to time) - which was one of the reasons why I liked the idea (more liquidity in shallow markets)
Have 0 or highly reduced fees on some exchanges
We will report the daily volume and the profit. We will not report each trade.

In the end of may you said:
we are much closer to limiting the number of outstanding shares that will have dividends paid. we will take away 5000 if all goes well.
So by that time you probably already knew about the issues, as this was probably this big investor choosing the 1% + 1% route.

What I'd like to hear:
Volume of trades so far in USD and BTC
Exchanges the bot is/was active on
Fees you'd currently have to pay on these exchanges, if you re-enabled this bot right now
Amount of USD + BTC on each of these exchanges' accounts
Why did you do USD --> BTC --> USD and not the other way round, so you end up with more BTC with all trades?

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June 22, 2012, 01:57:28 PM
 #100

What a shame! This is by far the most interesting GLBSE asset I hold :-(

If the bot goes for anything above 0.5% and the fees are 0.5%, why not have the bot go for anything above 1%? Sure that'd be less trades, but less fees too. Just a thought from the uninitiated.


If you are sure the bot works as it should (maybe with some tweaking), I really hope we can stick to the contract (without freebies). However:

Trying to tell bankers why I need these accounts and why I need to constantly send money back and forth was not really productive. After looking into it the only real way for me to do this on any sort of scale (at a reasonable fee) was to become a registered business somewhere. Seeing how the bot was not making much money, and that the costs to do this would be massive we thought it was a bad idea.

How could we have option 3 at all?

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June 22, 2012, 02:32:59 PM
 #101

Thank you for the explanation.


The biggest fee we have is moving USD around from exchange to exchange not the trading fees.

Why do you have to move the USD? If you'd convert to BTC and move those, then convert to USD at the other exchange, how much would we lose doing that? I understand the risk of the price moving in between the 6 confirmations, but surely it'd be less than a bank transfer?

Ack, I don't know, just really would like to see this going...

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June 22, 2012, 02:33:09 PM
 #102

So we have to choose one of the options you gave us?

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June 22, 2012, 02:40:00 PM
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Well, if you _really_ trust Goat, option 1 is of course the best. This might be best handled by opening (or reusing) a different asset and accepting shares from Tygrr.bot to be traded for these.

If you don't trust him, a loss of 10% or even less is not that tragic (depending on when you bought the bot bonds), so it would make sense to have option 1 opened for the people who trust Goat and the rest gets paid (let's say in the beginning of August) 0.9 or more (depending on Bitcoinica) BTC as dividend. Should Bitcoinica still be something that oyu might recover, he can keep the bonds outstanding to share holders, then when the bitcoinica money comes issue a final dividend, buy back for 1 Satoshi and close it down for good.

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June 22, 2012, 02:53:26 PM
 #104

If you want option two then you need to either trade me the shares for .9 BTC now or send me the shares and get put on a waiting list for .95 or whatever it is (based on bitcoinica giving us back our funds) when you want to cash out.

I would like to take the offer of 0.9 per share. How would I go about doing this?

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June 22, 2012, 02:56:47 PM
 #105

I'll take the .9 per share now. Can I just PM you my address, or would you just look at who transferred the asset back to you then transfer the BTC to them using GLBSE?
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June 22, 2012, 02:57:34 PM
 #106

Add me to the .9 option too.

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June 22, 2012, 03:23:34 PM
 #107

How long does the offer last for?
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June 22, 2012, 03:28:59 PM
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Arbitrage is a tough game. You need to be big, fast, have lots of money, and able to move money quickly. And picking up nickels in front of a moving steam roller is always dangerous.

You can't win if you don't play. But you can't play if you lose all your chips.
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June 22, 2012, 03:32:20 PM
 #109

I will make it clear when the offer is no longer good and give a weeks notice.
Thanks. Do you know if your (i.e. the bot's) Bitcoinica claim was assessed as accurate yet?
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June 22, 2012, 03:47:00 PM
 #110

Okay here are the maths...

7326 total shares sold minus 700 for bitcoinica = 6626 left for us to pay out.

6626 / 7326 = .9044499

I have placed a bid on GLBSE for 300 shares at that price. I will place more tomorrow (going to bed soon).

Keep in mind if bitcoincia pays us tomorrow there is no way I can send you back the extra .05 BTC. This donation will be put towards my losses if you want to do it this way.

Thank you.


Sold. Thanks for offering this solution. This was my favorite GLBSE bond and I'm sad to see it go. 

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June 22, 2012, 04:05:13 PM
 #111

Looks like my spidey senses have been off in the timing of my last few investments.  Lol

Oh well glad we could get out with a small loss and goat didnt disappear in cambodia Smiley
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June 22, 2012, 04:19:57 PM
 #112

Disappointing Sad

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June 22, 2012, 06:48:09 PM
 #113



The first is a non guaranteed bond paying back 1% of capital and 1% interest each week. This bond will last for 100 weeks. A large shareholder of 5000 plus shares already took this path.


Am I right in understanding the first option?  

Every week you receive 2% of remaining capital, and capital is decreased by 1%.

First week 0.02, second 0.0198, 0.0196...

My calculations show 0.5BTC in 30 weeks, 0.9 BTC in 61, and 1.26 in the full 100 weeks.  Did I get this right?

PS: Kudos, I think you are handling this very professionally.
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June 22, 2012, 08:47:31 PM
 #114

About 95% of the trading profit went to pay fees...

Did you not account for the fees when you ran the trading simulation before running the bot in the real world?

Quote
We suspect the intersango bot gets information from the intersango exchange before our bot. Also since they do not have to pay the fees (or at least one side) we are at a disadvantage.

Welcome to the world of unregulated exchanges.  Hopefully soon we can get a P2P exchange.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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June 23, 2012, 12:20:31 AM
 #115

What of the dividend that was not paid while you withheld important financial information from your investors? Instead you held us all in suspense telling us you have important information to tell us.
You are welcome for the large negative interest group loan. Sorry it didn't work out. Glad to read you aren't blaming this on someone else.

I'll take the 0.9 BTC for my 30 some shares, I'll PM you the details later.

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June 23, 2012, 03:55:05 AM
 #116

325 more bids for shares are up at GLBSE for people wanting to get out of this at .09044499   I will keep placing them as they empty. Once Bitcoinica pays us back we will move that up to just over .95

@ Stochastic   We did account for the fees but we had massive up and down swings and the different exchanges were all over the place. There was a lot more money to be made. For whatever reason the market is much more sane/level and we suspect it will keep going this way. Our options were fold and take the hit or keep going with something we no longer had much faith with.

@ RaggedMonk  I have not worked it all out but looking at it very quickly I think you are right. Also thank you for your support.

@ Red Emerald   We very much agree Sad


Thank you.



Maybe you're thinking too big, and should just stick to 2 exchanges or something. Smiley
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June 23, 2012, 11:02:32 AM
 #117

Hey Chaang,

I've been following for a while with interest, I too am interested in all the bots out there. I'm not sure if intersango has their own arb bot. I suspect not as it is a conflict of interest (admittedly the only people who would know are the team members). There are a couple of scalping bots on intersango as there is effectively a 'liquidity rebate' which will give you a very low fee if you provide liquidity.

I believe they are performing whats known in the stock market as 'front running'. Its illegal on the real stock market, however its not hard to do in bitcoin as the gox price usually dictates the direction. Given the correct maths, its easy for them to scalp high volume at a small profit each time.

Good scalping will essentially help arb the market naturally.

I admire your efforts Chaang.

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June 23, 2012, 10:31:11 PM
 #118

If I want to convert to the bond, how do I go about it?
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June 24, 2012, 08:15:11 AM
 #119

Thanks for the prompt replies Goat.
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June 24, 2012, 06:47:28 PM
 #120

Who's buying at 1.04 and 1.05?

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June 24, 2012, 06:52:01 PM
 #121

Who's buying at 1.04 and 1.05?
Someone who's about to create a whole lot of volatility?

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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June 24, 2012, 06:55:03 PM
 #122

Who's buying at 1.04 and 1.05?

Someone who knows something we don't

 Huh
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June 30, 2012, 11:30:24 AM
 #123

I'd like to participate in the 1% weekly bond. I only have 40 though Smiley

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June 30, 2012, 09:18:01 PM
 #124

goat,

You just have given us an example how hard and risky with doing business, which make me doubt with why and how you can pay out interest so high and so much. If someone borrow 20btc and return 22btc in a month, this may be realisitic and reasonable, but I do not think it is reasonable at the scale you are running.

You're doing business with Bitcoin, which cannot be printed by central banks. It is difficult to earn them, I think.

Except this arb program, can you give us a disclosure about the bitcoin exchange rate risk you involed in other business. How will you be effected if the Bitcoin exchange rate against fiat money countinues this rally.

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July 09, 2012, 03:22:39 AM
 #125

Any update on the weekly 1% bond?

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July 15, 2012, 08:27:36 AM
 #126

Okay here are the maths...

7326 total shares sold minus 700 for bitcoinica = 6626 left for us to pay out.

6626 / 7326 = .9044499

I have placed a bid on GLBSE for 300 shares at that price. I will place more tomorrow (going to bed soon).

Keep in mind if bitcoincia pays us tomorrow there is no way I can send you back the extra .05 BTC. This donation will be put towards my losses if you want to do it this way.

Thank you.




43.6585 BTC was received.

Thanks.


Because Zhou sent us some coin I am going to move up the bid price on GLBSE to .91

As soon as we get more funds from Bitcoinica / Intersango I will pass them along.

Also I talked to Donald about out account being "accurate" yet not being paid out. It seems Patrick held the coin and refused to send them out. He vetoed the other guys work. This was about 4 days before the last hack. However now that Patrick has quit and Intersango is going to get sued who knows what will happen.

I will be setting up that 1% bond on GLBSE this week.

Thanks all.


Glad you got some funds back.  IMO, the problem is that there are too many opinions in Bitcoinica.  It is one reason I don't like to work with groups of people and prefer to create things alone.  New ideas are implemented at a crawl and one person thinks the other person is in charge of things.  A better solution of whoever was in charge of Bitcoinica would have been to not give a percentage of ownership, but do a percentage of profits.  That way there is a clear person in charge yet talented workers have incentive to grow the company.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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August 17, 2012, 06:12:51 PM
 #127

Other people involved are my partner the coder and someone who helps him.

Is one of them the guy who ran bitscalper ?

Good question and lulz no!



I know it's an old post, but I thought i would bump this up, because of this post :

With Bitscalper I was never sure or not if it was a scam or just fail security. It is starting to look like this as well.

However I would like to know why this guy has bitscalpers source code. Only MinningBudy and myself other than bitscalper got it.

Some more clarification would be great.

From this post

Hum, so you're talking about 3 people in your team for TyGrr-Bot... And only 3 people including bitscalper had the bitscalper source code...
Well, I guess my question was indeed good, and you were lying...

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August 21, 2012, 11:19:40 AM
 #128

Has the bond been setup? How do I exchange my tygrr-bot shares with the bond?
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