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Author Topic: KnCMiner selling raw chips for $.15 / GH  (Read 5429 times)
J4bberwock
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August 18, 2014, 03:39:30 PM
 #21

I did the same thing asking of only documentation on pinout and protocol

And received an almost word for word reply.

They replied to me that "more information will become available from the website later today"

Maybe they got tired of getting emails asking for the datasheets.

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MrTeal
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August 18, 2014, 03:43:47 PM
 #22

I also got an email saying docs would be uploaded.
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August 18, 2014, 03:45:22 PM
 #23

BGA - fun to solder at home.
No open source board design.
No docs.

What happens if you put them in power chain? 13 chips should feed nicely from 12V PSU - I calculated 1877A of current @ 0.87V - can they handle this?
So far I saw only 1 successful design with high current chip - MrTeal's HF board!
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August 18, 2014, 04:00:43 PM
 #24

BGA - fun to solder at home.
No open source board design.
No docs.

What happens if you put them in power chain? 13 chips should feed nicely from 12V PSU - I calculated 1877A of current @ 0.87V - can they handle this?
So far I saw only 1 successful design with high current chip - MrTeal's HF board!

I also got a reply saying do a go public shortly.

If we go by their November boards with 8 DCDC modules @ 40A

That's 320A@0.8-0.9V or around 300W. Per board of one chip, that's only 25-50% of the power density of MrTeal's Hoppin Habs. But if it's worth doing, overdo it by 50+% for them overclocking people

So say 480A@0.8-0.9V or about 430W

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August 18, 2014, 04:34:02 PM
 #25

I meant to say it should be possible to chain them like BFY chips - the only concern is - could the chips handle that much current?
The idea is to keep the BOM as low as possible and not blow things up.
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August 18, 2014, 04:42:12 PM
 #26

BGA - fun to solder at home.
No open source board design.
No docs.

What happens if you put them in power chain? 13 chips should feed nicely from 12V PSU - I calculated 1877A of current @ 0.87V - can they handle this?
So far I saw only 1 successful design with high current chip - MrTeal's HF board!

I also got a reply saying do a go public shortly.

If we go by their November boards with 8 DCDC modules @ 40A

That's 320A@0.8-0.9V or around 300W. Per board of one chip, that's only 25-50% of the power density of MrTeal's Hoppin Habs. But if it's worth doing, overdo it by 50+% for them overclocking people

So say 480A@0.8-0.9V or about 430W
For 180 GH, unless you don't pay electricity, don't expect any ROI.
I hope they can run at something near 1W/GH or they are useless for most of us.
The point is what hashrate will we have @ 1W/GH

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Taugeran
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August 18, 2014, 05:38:46 PM
 #27

BGA - fun to solder at home.
No open source board design.
No docs.

What happens if you put them in power chain? 13 chips should feed nicely from 12V PSU - I calculated 1877A of current @ 0.87V - can they handle this?
So far I saw only 1 successful design with high current chip - MrTeal's HF board!

I also got a reply saying do a go public shortly.

If we go by their November boards with 8 DCDC modules @ 40A

That's 320A@0.8-0.9V or around 300W. Per board of one chip, that's only 25-50% of the power density of MrTeal's Hoppin Habs. But if it's worth doing, overdo it by 50+% for them overclocking people

So say 480A@0.8-0.9V or about 430W
For 180 GH, unless you don't pay electricity, don't expect any ROI.
I hope they can run at something near 1W/GH or they are useless for most of us.
The point is what hashrate will we have @ 1W/GH


True. Only time will tell.

but i can for sure say that the Line Item cost for the VRM can be significantly reduced. A quick look on digikey yielded these numbers:

the VRM used on Jupiter boards is MDT040A0X3-SRPHZ
with
  • a cost @QTY1 of 31.55+shipping
  • an extrapolated effiency of between 82-85% at maximum load of 40A

A better system can be yielded by replacing the 8 Ericsson modules with:
  • 12-16 IR3550 (2 IR3550 to replace each module, or 3 IR3550 to replace 2 modules)
  • 2 UCD9248 to monitor and control each individual phase/rail
  • supporting electronics: R,C,L

This would yield a system both lower in parts cost and Greater system effeciency, in the neighborhood of 87-92% efficient, thus lowering energy consumption, lowering the ripple currents & voltages to the asic(will help reduce HW errors, and Less stress on the components) and allowing for some great overclocking capabilities if the dies are able to (as was the case for the HF ASIC which was just starved for power until 'Teal got hold of it and fed it.)


this would reduce the BOM for the VRM from ~ 250USD to about 140USD

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August 19, 2014, 01:06:40 AM
 #28

I did the same thing asking of only documentation on pinout and protocol

And received an almost word for word reply.

Yeah, that's a pass (not that I was going to anyways). Seriously though, why don't they do what the rest of the world does and offer at least partial documentation contingent on a proper NDA being in place?

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Taugeran
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August 19, 2014, 03:25:27 PM
 #29

!!!ALERT!!!

KnC "documentation" has been publicized. and by documentation i mean some grainy 600ish pixel wide photos




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August 19, 2014, 03:43:50 PM
 #30

!!!ALERT!!!

KnC "documentation" has been publicized. and by documentation i mean some grainy 600ish pixel wide photos

https://www.kncminer.com/pictures/product/big/5507_big.jpg
https://www.kncminer.com/pictures/product/big/5509_big.jpg
https://www.kncminer.com/pictures/product/big/5510_big.jpg

Is that it?
No documentation on the pcb design they have?
No in depth chip information?
Just those three pictures?

If so that is woeful.

Message me if you have any problems
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August 19, 2014, 04:05:55 PM
 #31

!!!ALERT!!!

KnC "documentation" has been publicized. and by documentation i mean some grainy 600ish pixel wide photos

https://www.kncminer.com/pictures/product/big/5507_big.jpg
https://www.kncminer.com/pictures/product/big/5509_big.jpg
https://www.kncminer.com/pictures/product/big/5510_big.jpg

Is that it?
No documentation on the pcb design they have?
No in depth chip information?
Just those three pictures?

If so that is woeful.

they've publicly said only documentation on the chip will be made available.

but to be honest i think this is only interim docs while they scramble to prepare the formal ones.

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tvasbn
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August 19, 2014, 04:31:14 PM
 #32

Hope that Mr. Teal find out more about the chips and the original KnC board, build his own version and see some 400Gh mining board at 200 USD Smiley ( like he did whit the HF Evo Boards)
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August 19, 2014, 04:33:09 PM
 #33

Hope that Mr. Teal find out more about the chips and the original KnC board, build his own version and see some 400Gh mining board at 200 USD Smiley ( like he did whit the HF Evo Boards)
I actually asked him earlier today on advice  for the power stages since he has more experience with the IR3550

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August 19, 2014, 05:09:45 PM
 #34

Hope that Mr. Teal find out more about the chips and the original KnC board, build his own version and see some 400Gh mining board at 200 USD Smiley ( like he did whit the HF Evo Boards)

But at 1.5 to 3W/GH, I don't think the market would appreciate even $0.5/GH. Assuming these can get turned around in a month, the rest of the market will be closing up on that price.

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August 19, 2014, 05:18:25 PM
 #35

I'm not going to read through the whole KnC thread, but my understanding is the FW is closed and no voltage adjustments are possible.
Is any hacked FW available, and has anyone made posted any information on max frequency and power draw at various voltages?
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August 19, 2014, 05:20:59 PM
Last edit: August 19, 2014, 06:12:17 PM by cedivad
 #36

this would reduce the BOM for the VRM from ~ 250USD to about 140USD
Are you saying that KNC likes to pay more? Edit, ok, it's because KNC likes to over engineer it.

The gerber files from HashFast Evo boards are free from months and yet by this point only peppermining manage the make a working board for the GoldenNonce 700Gh Chip.
I've never found them publicly. One doesn't really need to be a genius to take the blueprints from HF and make their boards. They are only expensive, but still almost competitive.

I'm also sure that HF would be happy to sell everyone chips at $0.2/GH.

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Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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August 19, 2014, 05:41:34 PM
 #37

I hope they can run at something near 1W/GH or they are useless for most of us.
The point is what hashrate will we have @ 1W/GH

Got my October Jupiter running at 535GH/s@550W (at the wall) for the last 2 months
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August 19, 2014, 05:47:01 PM
 #38

I hope they can run at something near 1W/GH or they are useless for most of us.
The point is what hashrate will we have @ 1W/GH

Got my October Jupiter running at 535GH/s@550W (at the wall) for the last 2 months
Is that with four chips?
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August 19, 2014, 05:52:42 PM
 #39

Is that with four chips?
Yes (can't be otherwise). 133GH/chip, if every chip requires $150-250 in VRMs alone it's out of the market already.

What happens if you put them in power chain? 13 chips should feed nicely from 12V PSU - I calculated 1877A of current @ 0.87V - can they handle this?
That's a lot of Amps. Is that the reason why it isn't being done? (or is it feasible?).

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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August 19, 2014, 05:57:07 PM
 #40

Is that with four chips?
Yes (can't be otherwise). 133GH/chip, if every chip requires $150-250 in VRMs alone it's out of the market already.

Which is why the chips have been sitting on the shelf and are being sold. KNC have the scale, all the design done and just need to press the button to have them made into more Jupiters, but they're not.

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