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Author Topic: If Bitcoin is an experiment,...  (Read 4568 times)
elux
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April 02, 2012, 07:04:12 PM
 #61

If Bitcoin is an experiment, as Satoshi Nakamoto has advocated, then what are the real chances of it--Bitcoin proper (not some other crypto-currency)--truly becoming mainstream?
I think there is small possibility Bitcoin proper is used by a majority of people in some country somewhere in the world use it at least once a week to pay for things. I'd consider that mainstream success.

I think there's a tiny possibility Bitcoin will eventually become as popular as the dollar.

But I'm not very good at predicting the future, so you might want to consult you local fortune teller.


It would seem many, many orders of magnitude more likely that Bitcoin should rival Paypal, than that Bitcoin could rival the Dollar.

Bitcoin displacing Paypal makes a good yardstick for whether Bitcoin succeeds or fails in the mainstream .

The world needs to change very little for Bitcoin to die. The world needs to change profoundly for Bitcoin to replace the dollar.
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April 02, 2012, 07:18:38 PM
 #62

I think it would be more accurate to describe a democracy as proportional representation of opinions. Bitcoin is like a democracy with a minority government. The miners are simply casting votes that say "I should get all the Bitcoins!" And by a convoluted process, a ballot is drawn so that someone indeed gets all the Bitcoins roughly every 10 minutes.

How the reward is divided up has nothing to do with rules and forces no one to acknowledge someone's reward if they didn't follow the rules.

No, no, of course not. The current minimum difficulty and the algorithm for it is really just a "guideline".

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You are clueless about history and how the American republic looked like right after it's inception. It had 0, yes 0 "features" of a previous system, because there was no previous system. It's the last form of government, the last algorithm that was invented from almost a completely clean slate. People were actually nut just free, but sovereign and owned what they produced. Their privacy was sacred and they could do or own virtually anything that didn't hurt someone else. A far cry from today. What they have today is a gradually corrupted government into a fascist corporatism that evolved because while what little power that the original limited government had, there still was some power to be auctioned off, and guess what, special interest bought it all up and controls it today.

The only answer moving forward is not back to the same recipe for inevitable disaster but forward with something new and even more radical. No central government with no power to be auctioned off.

Btw I bet you don't even realize that you are a slave today and what it means to be a sovereign and truly free. I'm willing to bet money on it.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

And Bitcoin, if you didn't realize this, is a tool some slaves are trying to fight back against their masters.


Clearly the world revolves around America so quickly that it created a wormhole and some of its people fell into a parallel dimension... While there, they found that America was discovered by "random dudes", not British subjects or missionaries. It was "Terra Nullius" with no sign of American Indian life. And the American Revolutionary War was this really epic cheer-leading routine. Roll Eyes
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April 02, 2012, 07:19:19 PM
 #63

Do I have to fight Bitcoin if I don't want to use it? No.
Do I have to run from Bitcoin if I don't want to use it? No.    -> freedom, not slavery.

This doesn't affect the analogy. Bitcoin shares the weaknesses of a democracy. But it's not an enormous concern because it is not a government, it's a totally different thing. It would be better if it didn't have these weaknesses, but there is no other proven way that could make such a system work.

Does this also reflect the claim about democracy; that it's the best one that works despite its weaknesses? Yes. Does it mean anything at all? No, analogies don't work that way. So don't worry. Smiley
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April 02, 2012, 07:45:52 PM
 #64

Do I have to fight Bitcoin if I don't want to use it? No.
Do I have to run from Bitcoin if I don't want to use it? No.    -> freedom, not slavery.

This doesn't affect the analogy. Bitcoin shares the weaknesses of a democracy. But it's not an enormous concern because it is not a government, it's a totally different thing. It would be better if it didn't have these weaknesses, but there is no other proven way that could make such a system work.

Does this also reflect the claim about democracy; that it's the best one that works despite its weaknesses? Yes. Does it mean anything at all? No, analogies don't work that way. So don't worry. Smiley


That's right! Bitcoin is not a government therefor not a democracy. Bitcoin is actually an anarcho capitalist system in it's purest form. It's anarchy. Anarchy in practice does not mean anything goes. Anarchy in practice means spontaneous order and a society with some mandatory and consistent but voluntarily agreed to rules.

This idea that because people are working together and enforce certain voluntarily agreed to mandatory and consistent rules somehow this constitutes to the concept of a democracy is just plain wrong. FFS check your dictionaries.

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de·moc·ra·cy   [dih-mok-ruh-see]  Show IPA
noun, plural -cies.
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic  spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Bitcoin is a system. It has mandatory and consistent rules (they apply to everyone without exception). But participation is voluntary. HUGE DIFFERENCE from a democracy. Democracy is a form of government participation in which is not voluntary. You have no choice but to follow their rules. Being forced to run from your home or fight against violence is not what constitutes to a voluntary choice.

 

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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April 03, 2012, 09:31:06 AM
 #65

That's right! Bitcoin is not a government therefor not a democracy. Bitcoin is actually an anarcho capitalist system in it's purest form. It's anarchy. Anarchy in practice does not mean anything goes. Anarchy in practice means spontaneous order and a society with some mandatory and consistent but voluntarily agreed to rules.

This idea that because people are working together and enforce certain voluntarily agreed to mandatory and consistent rules somehow this constitutes to the concept of a democracy is just plain wrong. FFS check your dictionaries.

Quote
de·moc·ra·cy   [dih-mok-ruh-see]  Show IPA
noun, plural -cies.
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic  spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Bitcoin is a system. It has mandatory and consistent rules (they apply to everyone without exception). But participation is voluntary. HUGE DIFFERENCE from a democracy. Democracy is a form of government participation in which is not voluntary. You have no choice but to follow their rules. Being forced to run from your home or fight against violence is not what constitutes to a voluntary choice.

I bet a communist would say: "it's the perfect implementation of Marxism! A collectivist system under which everyone is treated equally. No exceptions!"

And a fascist would say: "it's the perfect Fascist monetary system! Only those who are truly worthy and capable of mining are allowed to do it. Primitives in faraway lands with no technological merit, cannot subvert the course of natural selection!"
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April 03, 2012, 11:55:49 AM
 #66

I bet a communist would say: "it's the perfect implementation of Marxism! A collectivist system under which everyone is treated equally. No exceptions!"

So how much hashing power you have, or access to what processing power, electricity cost, internet cost you have is equal for everyone? Btw a vital part of marxism is that people have NO CHOICE whether or not they want to be even part of the system..

And a fascist would say: "it's the perfect Fascist monetary system! Only those who are truly worthy and capable of mining are allowed to do it. Primitives in faraway lands with no technological merit, cannot subvert the course of natural selection!"

So those who merely running the client do not help keeping their copy of the public ledger honest? Btw a vital part of fascism is that people have NO CHOICE whether or not they want to be even part of the system..



Please. Those anologies make no sense what so ever, unless your goal was to troll me..  Roll Eyes

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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April 03, 2012, 02:53:10 PM
 #67

Please. Those anologies make no sense what so ever, unless your goal was to troll me..  Roll Eyes

I was trying to demonstrate that it's very easy to focus on a subset of Bitcoin's results, whether intended or accidental, and then liken them to one's preferred ideology.
hazek
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April 03, 2012, 04:29:48 PM
 #68

Please. Those anologies make no sense what so ever, unless your goal was to troll me..  Roll Eyes

I was trying to demonstrate that it's very easy to focus on a subset of Bitcoin's results, whether intended or accidental, and then liken them to one's preferred ideology.

And you failed.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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