Alts killing each other and the flood of alts will strengthen LTC's position

[kelsey]

Well this is a possible scenario. You might even receive posts on this thread like 'I think coins X is great, it will be second to BTC'. One would say that here only because one is invested in that coin.
People are ignorant, well most members here are. 95-99% of the coins that have been released so far are useless, copycats and 'shitcoins'.
Why would a real investor go into something like that (if he has done proper research) when he could invest in an altcoin that is secure, fast enough and already established?

The empirical evident suggest that 100% of the coins released are totally useless. I have yet to see any coin other than bitcoin is being accepted anywhere or serve any purpose.

We most that accept btc accept ltc (oddly enough even doge). also similar could be said for btc v fiat.

[koryu]

people often forget, that you can actually use litecoin. it works ltc can be bought with fiat money, traded secure, and can be sold for fiat money. there is also no big loss in this circle, because ltc has enough volume even for huge transactions.

anyway it wont be easy for ltc to keep the #2 coin behind btc. all the altcoins poping up right now have some fancy feaures and gimmicks which may be useful in the next years or decades.
that's why ltc has to focus to be more simple than btc and more easy to use.

Please define "fancy features" and "gimmicks".

There are clear problems that Bitcoin has and there are projects who try to solve them, those are real issues:

1) Scaling (Which Cryptonite tries to address)
2) Privacy (Which XMR and DRK try to address; Stealthaddresses for example are easy to implement and have a real world value for every merchant, Bitcoin is conservative and limited op-return to 40 bytes and decided so far to leave it out of Bitcoin-QT but why doesn't Litecoin implement it at least? Why not at least improve the Bitcoin base?)
3) Centralisation
4) Userfriendlyness (Which XMR tries to address and prolly a lot of others)
5) Decentralised ways of trading smart contracts and co (Bitshares, NXT, Ethereum...)
6) PLACEHOLDER - there are prolly more.

So far Litecoin doesn´t even use the 0.9 branch of Bitcoin without any clear reason; why is that? It mitigates/limits important problems like the tx mallability issues (still not completly solved tho).

According to the Litecoin Devfund: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AnlrnfU-U6E-dGlKcXJTYXhLV3hPczF4bjVpTTBRTWc&output=html

There´s a balance of roughly 1800 LTC still, why don´t they get used to hire someone that tries to work on certain issues mentioned above? Or at least someone who ports over the current Bitcoin codebase.

If you take a look at the Github: https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin/commits/master-0.8

compared to Bitcoin and other projects it seems pretty much dead, most commits are just merged Bitcoin PRs anyway: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master

People say Bitcoin is slow on development and conservative, but well, daily commits and a ton of work is getting in there every single day. I can´t see the same for Litecoin which says itself that its silver to Bitcoins gold.

Feel free to flame me - but that´s how i see it.

i dont flame i am here to get more information and read different opinions

i see it from a different view. in the current phase of cryptocurrencies, they are used as store of value like metals, for daytrading and as payment method with low transactions costs. thats why i think the most important for an altcoin right now is to have enough volume that merchants could instant convert their alts into fiat. therefore its also important to have fiat trading pairs. its a pain to trade an alt into btc on one exchange then transfer the btc to another exchange to finally be able to get fiat.
so its more about adoption than about features. thats why i think litecoin stays #2 for now.

but I am not a litecoin promoter, it's a valid point that litecoin should use 0.9 branch and spend more time in development. Otherwise it will be hard for ltc to keep the #2 coin behind btc, like i said.

i used "fancy features" because i think people overrate some problems and features. specially privacy. anonymous payments are great for private money but if you are a legit merchant, why would you accept such a currency? you have to use one-time-adresses for each payment, or somebody to manage the support for all the payments missing an payment-message. How can a buyer prove he really sent the payment when he forgets the payment message? (i like how monero solved it with privacy levels, so you can turn off anonymity).

i dont say all altcoin features are useless, some will turn out to be great. but overall i see the problems you mentioned as flaws not as critical. i have full trust in the bitcoin devs that major issues can be fixed within bitcoin.

[othe]

i used "fancy features" because i think people overrate some problems and features. specially privacy. anonymous payments are great for private money but if you are a legit merchant, why would you accept such a currency?

Now that is really shocking me.

Theres no freedom without privacy, simply thats why we need privacy.
Why wouldn´t a merchant accept such a currency? it stops people from tracking their sales.
Bitpay is actually a big fan of Stealthaddresses for example, they are perfect for merchants.
For example theres a psychiatrist in new york who already accepts Monero as a method of payment, simply because his customers have a good reason to stay anonymous, for the same reason doctors aren´t allowed to talk about their patients nor are lawyers allowed to talk about their clients.

There are people who need privacy more than others, especially in opressed countries (its up to you which countries you think are opressed).

you have to use one-time-adresses for each payment, or somebody to manage the support for all the payments missing an payment-message. How can a buyer prove he really sent the payment when he forgets the payment message? (i like how monero solved it with privacy levels, so you can turn off anonymity).

Not really.
In CN you make a new ring sig, using the same key image but different (random) data, thats only possible if you own the private key.
Then you can disclose the random number used to create the one time address.

Everone can check that the one time address i send money to can be created using the pubkey and intermediate random number.
Ideally you pack this into a payment protocol outside of the blockchain.

And for Donationaddresses/Charities who need a transparency they can simply publish their viewkey.

That the tooling currently doesn´t exist doesn´t mean it wont be implemented

[koryu]

i used "fancy features" because i think people overrate some problems and features. specially privacy. anonymous payments are great for private money but if you are a legit merchant, why would you accept such a currency?

Now that is really shocking me.

Theres no freedom without privacy, simply thats why we need privacy.
Why wouldn´t a merchant accept such a currency? it stops people from tracking their sales.
Bitpay is actually a big fan of Stealthaddresses for example, they are perfect for merchants.
For example theres a psychiatrist in new york who already accepts Monero as a method of payment, simply because his customers have a good reason to stay anonymous, for the same reason doctors aren´t allowed to talk about their patients nor are lawyers allowed to talk about their clients.

There are people who need privacy more than others, especially in opressed countries (its up to you which countries you think are opressed).

you have to use one-time-adresses for each payment, or somebody to manage the support for all the payments missing an payment-message. How can a buyer prove he really sent the payment when he forgets the payment message? (i like how monero solved it with privacy levels, so you can turn off anonymity).

Not really.
In CN you make a new ring sig, using the same key image but different (random) data, thats only possible if you own the private key.
Then you can disclose the random number used to create the one time address.

Everone can check that the one time address i send money to can be created using the pubkey and intermediate random number.
Ideally you pack this into a payment protocol outside of the blockchain.

And for Donationaddresses/Charities who need a transparency they can simply publish their viewkey.

That the tooling currently doesn´t exist doesn´t mean it wont be implemented

if you go to the doctor you could pay cash but yes, in some cases you want privacy.
but is it really important if you buy anything f.e. at amazon? they would have to use your workaround for each payment. it has to work fully automatically on an high amount of transactions every day.

[othe]

What workaround?

Of course that can be fully automated.

The most basic way to make that a total non-issue is to simply attach the payment id after the address and add a checksum, theres no chance u can miss that while copy pasting it into the wallet or clicking a payment link.

For your info, BTC also has a payment protocol: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0070.mediawiki
Well, Litecoin doesn´t seem intersted in such stuff at all.


And the FIAT/CASH argument, damn i wouldn´t be on bitcointalk nor would you if you were a fan of the FIAT system

To address the AMAZON argument, merchants don´t want to expose what they earn, so its not only a question if i would prefer it because they would do it too.

[cryptoknightt]

Absolutely, wishful thinking

You litecoin guys have fallen off the deep end, it will lose #2 by the end of the year, probably much much sooner. There are alot of great innovative coins out there and litecoin thinks it will survive doing nothing and going off of nothing but it's name. LOL

#Delusional

[defaced]

One thing I used to find refreshing about this community.

irl I'm a fulltime daytrader, on real world market forums (and in person) people don't speak the truth, in fact its mostly the opposite, if someones promoting a stock as the next best thing its likely they are trying to sell, and if they say a stock is a dog they are most likely trying to acquire.

when I first started trading cryptos, people where actually honest, most promoting what they believed in rather then what made them a quick buck, kinda one of the main reasons I spent the time in trading chats etc and most traders (say in cryptsy chat) where basically friends and helpful to each other (certainly the odd bif or 10).

now its changed seems the loudest mouths are just here (and in the chats) to bullshit and pump just too make fiat with no thought to the advancement of crytpos and what potentially could be achieved with cryptocurrencies.  

Those were the days, -sigh-

[nutildah]

Absolutely, wishful thinking

You litecoin guys have fallen off the deep end, it will lose #2 by the end of the year, probably much much sooner. There are alot of great innovative coins out there and litecoin thinks it will survive doing nothing and going off of nothing but it's name. LOL

#Delusional

The market disagrees with this. Litecoin holds up better than the majority of all altcoins in times of crisis. Litecoin's market cap is much, much bigger than the next biggest alt. In terms of competition, Litecoin has already won as the #1 alt spot, hands down.

Its fun to predict things for the sake of sounding smart but you've got less than 4 months for LTC to lose 3/4 of its market cap. And Ripple has to remain the same in value (or go up).

[Lauda]

The empirical evident suggest that 100% of the coins released are totally useless. I have yet to see any coin other than bitcoin is being accepted anywhere or serve any purpose.

We most that accept btc accept ltc (oddly enough even doge). also similar could be said for btc v fiat.

Well yeah adoption can't be the only deciding factor, that's just wrong. I guess it has to be something that has a combination of features, speed, anonymity and adoption.
Bitcoin is most likely gonna stay on top for a long time if not forever. Most altcoins are relatively very young (even Bitcoin is). There are a few that offer nice features and anonymity, if they get some adoption over time they could move up.

[El Dude]

Chikun rising

[rikkejohn]

Eventually everyones' bound to get sick of the constant stream of crapcoins and as I already am they'll start narrowing the field they invest in (both time and finances).

Some seem to assume attacking litecoin (the lead alt) will help their coin, with some crazy obsession that some token very wrongly labelled 2nd (just based around being different to btc whether it be a big backward step or not) generation, must have 2nd spot on this coinmarketcap chart  

Instead of wasting valuable time attacking others work, why not use that time productively; promote that alt your obsessing over in a positive light, find business that will adopted your crypto, give something to your crypto community even if thats just moral support (like an occasional well done to your hard working dev).

I've been playing with alts for 18 months or so, and I have to agree with your post. There is too much risk with them, too many lies from the devs and none of them seem to last more than 1 pump if they are lucky.

So I'm back to BTC/LTC, No chance playing with any others with the exception of the odd one that is clearly being primed for a pump over a long-period of time.

[SLVR4ME]

Litecoin's position does NOT appear to be strengthening. In fact, it looks there's been a fundamental trend change in how litecoin rises and falls relative to bitcoin:

you're talking about price not value.

(quoted ur message too keep your point, deleted your chart as you've already posted that to another thread in this section).

I'm talking about both price and value. And how about just a link to the chart since you don't want the chart itself in your thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg8442609#msg8442609

I say pay attention to giving your crypto real value, real world useability and price will take care of itself. and personally I find litecoins real world useability, acceptance etc on the increase.

Charts hold very little meaning to me (and thats coming from a fulltime daytrader for over a decade).

I would love to see LTC recover from the last few months...only time will tell and no one has a crystal ball.
Real world useability is defo the most important thing.

If people dont understand something & cant use it easily, it will collect dust

[rikkejohn]

Absolutely, wishful thinking

You litecoin guys have fallen off the deep end, it will lose #2 by the end of the year, probably much much sooner. There are alot of great innovative coins out there and litecoin thinks it will survive doing nothing and going off of nothing but it's name. LOL

#Delusional

Actually, the last laugh is on you. Litecoin may well die, but not because of the reasons you gave. they apply to Bitcoin, too.

I suppose even a stopped clock appears to be correct twice a day, but it isn't correct.

People do not use currency because it is innovative. They use safe currencies, that are culturally acceptable and embedded within a system. A currency is a means of payment, not an exercise in "features".

People do not use fancy new shit unless they are very stupid or very clever, and have inside information.

[Mjbmonetarymetals]

Those who are slithering around trying to damage the reputation of other coins in an attempt to steal market share need to be weeded out as they are a cancer across the forums and Reddit, which is doing more damage to the CryptoCurrency sector than any government or external force.

I suggest at the very least the ignore button is a good start.

[aa]

Those who are slithering around trying to damage the reputation of other coins in an attempt to steal market share need to be weeded out as they are a cancer across the forums and Reddit, which is doing more damage to the CryptoCurrency sector than any government or external force.

I suggest at the very least the ignore button is a good start.

That's exactly my sentiment. If a coin's worth is so little that it can only gain share by having its "community" constantly attack other coins, how can it ever hope to gain acceptance for more than a fraction of a moment?

It's funny to come back a year later and see all these people I've put on my ignore list. It only takes seeing a few of their recent posts to realize why it was I originally put them on ignore. It seems that people never change.

[othe]

Those who are slithering around trying to damage the reputation of other coins in an attempt to steal market share need to be weeded out as they are a cancer across the forums and Reddit, which is doing more damage to the CryptoCurrency sector than any government or external force.

I suggest at the very least the ignore button is a good start.

That's exactly my sentiment. If a coin's worth is so little that it can only gain share by having its "community" constantly attack other coins, how can it ever hope to gain acceptance for more than a fraction of a moment?

It's funny to come back a year later and see all these people I've put on my ignore list. It only takes seeing a few of their recent posts to realize why it was I originally put them on ignore. It seems that people never change.

Thats how Litecoin users do it at an example of rikkejohn: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=751095.0

Oh yes, you guys are so much better.

[rikkejohn]

Those who are slithering around trying to damage the reputation of other coins in an attempt to steal market share need to be weeded out as they are a cancer across the forums and Reddit, which is doing more damage to the CryptoCurrency sector than any government or external force.

I suggest at the very least the ignore button is a good start.

That's exactly my sentiment. If a coin's worth is so little that it can only gain share by having its "community" constantly attack other coins, how can it ever hope to gain acceptance for more than a fraction of a moment?

It's funny to come back a year later and see all these people I've put on my ignore list. It only takes seeing a few of their recent posts to realize why it was I originally put them on ignore. It seems that people never change.

Thats how Litecoin users do it at an example of rikkejohn: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=751095.0

Oh yes, you guys are so much better.

Not very clever, given I am not part of the "LTC community". So it makes no sense to imply I am.

If you want to know my position, I think BTC has the best chance of long-term success. LTC has a decent chance, but i am not convinced enough to argue for it in BTC terms. Practically speaking it is to better use, but then Earthcoin is easier to use than LTC, so there is not so much mileage to take from that argument.

But I said something bad about Monero, so you better misrepresent me a few more times.

[othe]

You are part of the LTC community, so am i, i am on #litecoin since years and hold a chunk.
You are giving LTC trading advises so yes, you clearly are.

My post had the sole intention to show Kelsey who started this topic but seems to be a very correct person that the LTC community isn´t better than others.
Black sheeps are everywhere, people like you who have invested and need to trashtalk other peoples hard work.

Its not wise to throw a stone when sitting in a glasshouse.

[J1mb0]

Some seem to assume attacking litecoin (the lead alt) will help their coin

There you go. LTC was the first ALT so it is easy prey for FUDSTERS. Having said that - the LTC devs did themselves no favours by their glacial development whilst holding large reserves of a coin with a $billion market cap. You have noone to blame but the LTC devs for LTC demise.  

[rikkejohn]

You are part of the LTC community, so am i, i am on #litecoin since years and hold a chunk.
You are giving LTC trading advises so yes, you clearly are.

My post had the sole intention to show Kelsey who started this topic but seems to be a very correct person that the LTC community isn´t better than others.
Black sheeps are everywhere, people like you who have invested and need to trashtalk other peoples hard work.

Its not wise to throw a stone when sitting in a glasshouse.

Are you some kind of nutter? I am not part of the LTC community. Mentioning LTC does not mean i am involved with its promotion.

I have LTC, which i have bought between the 0.0085 to 0.012 range. I will sell it for BTC when it reaches a certain price,

I belong to myself, and if i was supporting a community, it would be small, with an honest developer. I can think of one of those off hand.

Please stop responding to my posts unless you have an interesting or clever point to make.