ISIS initially was supported by the west, to...

[tsoPANos]

bring down Assad in Syria.

http://guardianlv.com/2014/06/isis-trained-by-us-government/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-isis-islamic-terrorists-are-supported-by-the-us-israel-and-saudi-arabia/5396171

http://rt.com/op-edge/168064-isis-terrorism-usa-cia-war/

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html
In my opinion, the USA and many other western countries
funded the ISIS to stop Assad's rule on Syria. But it didn't end as expected.
While Assad managed to stay, ISIS expanded in Iraq and it suddenly became
a threat to the west.

I am really curious about your view on this.

[1715142693]

1715142693

[Chef Ramsay]

John McCain and his neocon-MIC brethren new damn well that whether or not these terrorists could topple Assad, they'd eventually be training and radicalizing others in the region while putting all these weapons in their hands. Eventually, something like this invasion in Iraq would happen and create more PR for the neocons to get more Americans or at least reclaim some of their lost republicans into accepting intervention again in Iraq. They know they can keep firing up these types of people and there's no shortage of them in the middle east. Note how they're always for using some type of military force all the time and whenever they can get the chance. Usually, behind the scenes they have the CIA slipping in the back door and funneling arms and training to gin up a situation. This has been happening for decades.

[kuroman]

Actually it is more complicated than that, currently IS or Islamic State (it's no more ISIS) is serving Assads interests from two perspectives :

-The first one is that it shifted the interest from Syria to Iraq
-The second one is that it is fighting other groups in Syria such as the Islamic Front (which is fighting Assad in Syria)
Although things are changing right now as Assad is using the the opportunity of the US air strike to do air strikes on his own on IS, to get back some of the cities that are under their control

Now was IS group, created trained and financed by the west? Yes but in indirect way, obviously groups that formed afterwards IS, got their support from the west and thing, but what happened in my opinion is that the support was not sufficient by a long shot and was cut after a while for political reasons, the fight with Assad become very long and winning wasn't visible as it, which triggered fights for leaderships withing the resistance and triggered and put an opportunity to the extreme extremism which is the IS.

What I don't understand is how the hell the US keeps making the same mistake over and over again and never learns from it was history, the situation in Iraq or Libya, or Afghanistan, is similar to what happened in Vietnam 40 years ago, after the US left Vietnam they've decided and thought that supporting south Vietnam was enough to get a grip an all territories except what happened was the total the opposite and this is exactly what's happening in those countries / region

[tsoPANos]

What I don't understand is how the hell the US keeps making the same mistake over and over again and never learns from it was history, the situation in Iraq or Libya, or Afghanistan, is similar to what happened in Vietnam 40 years ago, after the US left Vietnam they've decided and thought that supporting south Vietnam was enough to get a grip an all territories except what happened was the total the opposite and this is exactly what's happening in those countries / region

But today the situation is a little bit different.
The Americans prefer attacking by air and not by land.
That time, the Kurds are acting as their "far arm" in the area,
reducing the political (and economical) cost
of the US intervention

[countryfree]

You're going too far saying ISIS was supported by the West. Only a very limited group of people in the West have shown a little support in the early days of that movement. There are also some young unskilled and unemployed muslims who support ISIS all over Europe, but those people don't belong much to the West, despite they're living there.

I don't know much about how ISIS is funded, but I'm sure most of the money comes from the Persian Gulf.

[Spendulus]

You're going too far saying ISIS was supported by the West. ...

That's a bit like saying every serial killer was once supported by his mother....

[MichaelBliss]

Yeah it's not just your view, it's the truth plain as day.  We invent our own enemies so we can keep fighting endless war.   Checkout BBC's "The Power of Nightmares" if you already haven't.  ISIS is another rehash of the same old tactic.

http://vimeo.com/84414208

[bitsmichel]

Yes, the western government was supporting ISIS - until Russian media reports came out of 'ISIS man killing and eating Syrian heart organs' (including videos).
Russia and China didn't want an invasion to get of Assad - they preferred Assad over ISIS.

[hdbuck]

snowden latest scoop: ISIS supreme khalif al bagdadhi enrolled by CIA and trained by mossad...

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/24/376378/baghdadi-mossadtrained-saudifunded/

[Spendulus]

Yeah it's not just your view, it's the truth plain as day.  We invent our own enemies so we can keep fighting endless war.   Checkout BBC's "The Power of Nightmares" if you already haven't.  ISIS is another rehash of the same old tactic.

http://vimeo.com/84414208

Then every murderer is the fault of the police departments. 

[MichaelBliss]

Yeah it's not just your view, it's the truth plain as day.  We invent our own enemies so we can keep fighting endless war.   Checkout BBC's "The Power of Nightmares" if you already haven't.  ISIS is another rehash of the same old tactic.

http://vimeo.com/84414208

Then every murderer is the fault of the police departments. 

No, that doesn't follow what I said at all.  Check out the film I linked, it's quite good.

[Tusk]

Yeah it's not just your view, it's the truth plain as day.  We invent our own enemies so we can keep fighting endless war.   Checkout BBC's "The Power of Nightmares" if you already haven't.  ISIS is another rehash of the same old tactic.

http://vimeo.com/84414208

Great video Michael, the lunatics have taken over the asylum, and are drinking their own excrement!   

[spazzdla]

Rome started to debase their coins with shit metals...

Merica is currently playing the same game...  When you can no longer fund your army with an infinite amount of money people you killed and tortured see an opening..  May the gods have mercy on us.

[Spendulus]

Yeah it's not just your view, it's the truth plain as day.  We invent our own enemies so we can keep fighting endless war.   Checkout BBC's "The Power of Nightmares" if you already haven't.  ISIS is another rehash of the same old tactic.

http://vimeo.com/84414208

Then every murderer is the fault of the police departments. 

No, that doesn't follow what I said at all.  Check out the film I linked, it's quite good.

Yes, it does follow explicitly what you said.

If there were not murderers, we wouldn't need police departments, so to expand the bureaucracy of police departments, some number of bad guys are needed, and need to be glamorized.

Unfortunately, only low IQ people fall for this logic.  Reality is that there really are really bad guys.  Maybe they shouldn't be given media time, and maybe they shouldn't be used as justification for government agencies, sure.

History is interesting if you don't fall for the latest conspiracy theory.

[bryant.coleman]

I had posted about ISIS before.

What happened in Afghanistan is repeating itself in Syria-Iraq. In Afghanistan, the Americans gave Stinger missiles and other advanced weaponry to the Taliban rebels, along with shiploads of money. When the Taliban finished their fight with the Russians, they turned back on their original sponsors.

The only difference here is that the Americans never directly supported the ISIS. The support was delivered through their allies (Saudis, Qataris.etc).

[Tusk]

Yeah it's not just your view, it's the truth plain as day.  We invent our own enemies so we can keep fighting endless war.   Checkout BBC's "The Power of Nightmares" if you already haven't.  ISIS is another rehash of the same old tactic.

http://vimeo.com/84414208

Then every murderer is the fault of the police departments.  

No, that doesn't follow what I said at all.  Check out the film I linked, it's quite good.

Yes, it does follow explicitly what you said.

If there were not murderers, we wouldn't need police departments, so to expand the bureaucracy of police departments, some number of bad guys are needed, and need to be glamorized.

Unfortunately, only low IQ people fall for this logic.  Reality is that there really are really bad guys.  Maybe they shouldn't be given media time, and maybe they shouldn't be used as justification for government agencies, sure.

History is interesting if you don't fall for the latest conspiracy theory.

Yes there are always going to be bad individuals, however they are few and relatively far between and thus do not pose a treat to society as a whole. The real threat the world faces are the psychopathic politicians who use fearmongering to suppress our ability to reach out to one another and transcend this spiralling lunacy of hatred we see in the world. This is all a product institutional failure that has escalated into the vortex of irrational judgement by those in authority. So ironical far from protecting society they themselves have become its greatest threat.      

[Spendulus]

Yeah it's not just your view, it's the truth plain as day.  We invent our own enemies so we can keep fighting endless war.   Checkout BBC's "The Power of Nightmares" if you already haven't.  ISIS is another rehash of the same old tactic.

http://vimeo.com/84414208

Then every murderer is the fault of the police departments.  

No, that doesn't follow what I said at all.  Check out the film I linked, it's quite good.

Yes, it does follow explicitly what you said.

If there were not murderers, we wouldn't need police departments, so to expand the bureaucracy of police departments, some number of bad guys are needed, and need to be glamorized.

Unfortunately, only low IQ people fall for this logic.  Reality is that there really are really bad guys.  Maybe they shouldn't be given media time, and maybe they shouldn't be used as justification for government agencies, sure.

History is interesting if you don't fall for the latest conspiracy theory.

Yes there are always going to be bad individuals, however they are few and relatively far between and thus do not pose a treat to society as a whole. The real threat the world faces are the psychopathic politicians who use fearmongering to suppress our ability to reach out to one another and transcend this spiralling lunacy of hatred we see in the world. This is all a product institutional failure that has escalated into the vortex of irrational judgement by those in authority. So ironical far from protecting society they themselves have become its greatest threat.      

I don't have any problem with this method of explanation of the simple tendency toward fascism as being dangerous to society. 

It's important not to carry it too far, though, and suggest that threats are made up.  Some are, some are not.

In the USA, in 2009 and 2010, the Tea Party was widely propagandized as as being a threat.  Those were lies.

[Scoremaster]

More like waswas

[Spendulus]

cuz of obama

Actually, yes.  He has taken numerous actions that increased the strength of Muslim insurgency groups at the expense of democratic or secular governments.

[DodoB]

Makes sense. ISIS is supported by Saudi Arabia to destabilize its Shia enemies.

[solid12345]

The US didn't invent 1,000 years of Sunni/Shia hatred.

Personally I think the conspiracy theories about the US creating ISIS is just mainstream Muslims embarrassed to admit they have a problem with their jobless and goal-less youth being indoctrinated and radicalized by fundamental clerics who can offer them something better than hanging out on the street corner all day.

Think about it, if you are a 20 year-old Arab kid whose been raised your whole life to believe the "Zionist entity" and the "Great Satan" is responsible for why you don't have a job or an education, what else is there to do but pick up an AK-47 and go join a Jihad adventure?

And in a society where women are secluded or covered, for a young male there is some mighty sexual frustration built up and being given free reign to rape and loot is a psychological release from daily repression.

[spiceminer15]

You're going too far saying ISIS was supported by the West. Only a very limited group of people in the West have shown a little support in the early days of that movement. There are also some young unskilled and unemployed muslims who support ISIS all over Europe, but those people don't belong much to the West, despite they're living there.

I don't know much about how ISIS is funded, but I'm sure most of the money comes from the Persian Gulf.

they had official government support when they were fighting assad.

[hdbuck]

You're going too far saying ISIS was supported by the West. Only a very limited group of people in the West have shown a little support in the early days of that movement. There are also some young unskilled and unemployed muslims who support ISIS all over Europe, but those people don't belong much to the West, despite they're living there.

I don't know much about how ISIS is funded, but I'm sure most of the money comes from the Persian Gulf.

they had official government support when they were fighting assad.

Mc Cain chillin with al Baghdadi.



 

[Lohoris]

The US didn't invent 1,000 years of Sunni/Shia hatred.

Personally I think the conspiracy theories about the US creating ISIS is just mainstream Muslims embarrassed to admit they have a problem with their jobless and goal-less youth being indoctrinated and radicalized by fundamental clerics who can offer them something better than hanging out on the street corner all day.

Think about it, if you are a 20 year-old Arab kid whose been raised your whole life to believe the "Zionist entity" and the "Great Satan" is responsible for why you don't have a job or an education, what else is there to do but pick up an AK-47 and go join a Jihad adventure?

And in a society where women are secluded or covered, for a young male there is some mighty sexual frustration built up and being given free reign to rape and loot is a psychological release from daily repression.

Much true.

If you want to solve a problem you have to fix its root, it's almost pointless to hit the symptoms.

[DhaniBoy]

there is some sort of conspiracy made ​​by US, to create an organization called ISIS that is aimed at pitting Muslims in the middle east. US can make the opinion that Muslims are terrorists that are killing not only non-Muslims but also Muslims, so that the muslims movement can be controlled and can not evolve ... hopefully all movement of Muslims to be aware of the dangers of this conspiracy, so that they can unite to fight this conspiracy