How do no fee exchanges make money

[lomalio]

So I came across bitvc, it asks no fees.

I said they must make money from advertising. Now I haven't used it so I don't know.

However!! How can you make advertising money if the members use bots to trade? Bots do not visit webpages. It almost sounds too good to be true. No fees = bot heaven.

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[RodeoX]

Build up a user base and then run away with everyone's coins.

lol, that may be right. Or perhaps there are fees. For example they mean no fees on transactions, but a fee to deposit or withdraw.

[DubFX]

If there are really NO fees then it really screams something is wrong as the adiversments don't pay out that mutch.
They could easily run with user's  profits and that would cover all their expenses lol.

[lomalio]

Made by the guys at Huobi http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/28u7w2/bitvc_a_new_trading_platform_from_huobi/


Seems a bit too good to be true. Must be a catch somewhere.

[justforbtc]

BitVC is owned by HUOBI, the order book shown in BitVC are actually order book of HUOBI exchange. Thus, don't worry BitVC will run away with your money.

[DubFX]

BitVC is owned by HUOBI, the order book shown in BitVC are actually order book of HUOBI exchange. Thus, don't worry BitVC will run away with your money.

But wait...doesn't huobi have 0% fees also?

[lomalio]

BitVC is owned by HUOBI, the order book shown in BitVC are actually order book of HUOBI exchange. Thus, don't worry BitVC will run away with your money.

But wait...doesn't huobi have 0% fees also?

How does Huobi make money?

[Ayers]

Build up a user base and then run away with everyone's coins.

was the case of share coin and many other, some of them make some profit with coin named after them(like sharecoin) or vote

[iluvpie60]

So I came across bitvc, it asks no fees.

I said they must make money from advertising. Now I haven't used it so I don't know.

However!! How can you make advertising money if the members use bots to trade? Bots do not visit webpages. It almost sounds too good to be true. No fees = bot heaven.

hi! be wary. sometimes these sites will scam you and say they were created by someone who is trusted when it turns out they are lying.

gotta due your due diligence and loko things up!

sounds like a scam to me, dont send your coins to somewhere that even seems shady.

[lomalio]

Okay I sent them a small amount of BTC for trading. Amount that I can lose for experimentation. They seem to do rounding down to 4 decimals when depositing. So 0.000523 will become 0.0005. I don't know if that rounding is for display only, but I can't find any evidence that I still have it.

[counter]

I only use sites I've read positive reviews of my members of this forum so I can avoid being scammed.  This is something I've recently heard about and I like the sound of no fee's I worry how safe my coins are on the exchange.  I'd recommend that you don't leave coins on the exchange for lengthy amounts of time if your going to use the site.  I've read all types of complaints of funds getting tied up so I'd be very cautious of the amount of trading on a site that offers no fees until it has shown it is not scam.  

[Keyara]

So I came across bitvc, it asks no fees.

I said they must make money from advertising. Now I haven't used it so I don't know.

However!! How can you make advertising money if the members use bots to trade? Bots do not visit webpages. It almost sounds too good to be true. No fees = bot heaven.

Either a bucket shop where the exchange trade against their own customer. Or they are trying to capture the market first and charge small fee after reaching certain threshold. The same method whatsapp used before it is popular.

[bounst]

it's shady deal without a doubt.

[lyth0s]

I only use sites I've read positive reviews of my members of this forum so I can avoid being scammed.  This is something I've recently heard about and I like the sound of no fee's I worry how safe my coins are on the exchange.  I'd recommend that you don't leave coins on the exchange for lengthy amounts of time if your going to use the site.  I've read all types of complaints of funds getting tied up so I'd be very cautious of the amount of trading on a site that offers no fees until it has shown it is not scam.  

Well to be honest you should always worry about your bitcoins on someone else's private keys....always. Never store your bitcoins in any wallet but your own, otherwise you run the risk of getting "goxed" whether they intentionally run with  your bitcoins or they get hacked and they are gone.

Put coins/money on the exchange -> execute the desired exchange -> send coins back to your personal wallet. Even if you're a day trader, at the end of every day I'd still move all the coins off the exchange....as far as fiat goes, well that would be stuck until you execute another buy order.

[DubFX]

So I came across bitvc, it asks no fees.

I said they must make money from advertising. Now I haven't used it so I don't know.

However!! How can you make advertising money if the members use bots to trade? Bots do not visit webpages. It almost sounds too good to be true. No fees = bot heaven.

hi! be wary. sometimes these sites will scam you and say they were created by someone who is trusted when it turns out they are lying.

gotta due your due diligence and loko things up!

sounds like a scam to me, dont send your coins to somewhere that even seems shady.

"BitVc is a new trading platform which allows margin trading of Bitcoin and Litecoin. Like Huobi, there will be zero trading or withdrawal fees. BitVc is based on Huobi's API and will support BTC/LTC derivatives and financial instruments. Bitvc will be focused on margin trading, derivatives, and other financial instruments, while Huobi will continue to be mainly a spot trading platform. The API will be opened later for other developers to create applications on it. BitVc was created by the people behind Huobi, which has an impeccable security and performance record.

BitVc will feature a new product/service called Yubibao, which is an interest-bearing BTC/LTC account within BitVc. You can move your BTC/LTC into your Yubibao and withdraw into your normal account instantly and at any time. Yubibao gives risk-averse people a safe, easy way to put their coins to work for profit. Interest will be derived from traders who borrow to trade on margin. BitVc pools all the deposits in Yubibao and offers the same market rate to savers.

BitVc is currently in invitation-only mode, but you can send me a message if you want an invitation code. Your feedback would be much appreciated."

https://www.bitvc.com/

http://newsbtc.com/2014/06/16/chinese-bitcoin-exchange-huobi-launch-virtual-currency-based-derivatives-platform-bitvc/"

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/28u7w2/bitvc_a_new_trading_platform_from_huobi/

It was posted by Huobi so i doubt it's an scam, it's just their another exchange and you probably don't have to worry about scamming guys

[Fioraver]

killing all opponent with free fee, and then cut wool form users

[Bitwayup85]

There's obvisouly a problem there something is coming out right or correct. I'd check up on the end results of everything before hand

[sgk]

Okay I sent them a small amount of BTC for trading. Amount that I can lose for experimentation. They seem to do rounding down to 4 decimals when depositing. So 0.000523 will become 0.0005. I don't know if that rounding is for display only, but I can't find any evidence that I still have it.

Did you try trading those? Are you able to trade all 0.000523 or just 0.0005 BTC?

[ihuntbtc]

Maybe thanks to adviertisements.

[BeeTeeSea]

They let you nicely put your deposits there, then after a while they run with your deposits.

[itsAj]

I only use sites I've read positive reviews of my members of this forum so I can avoid being scammed.  This is something I've recently heard about and I like the sound of no fee's I worry how safe my coins are on the exchange.  I'd recommend that you don't leave coins on the exchange for lengthy amounts of time if your going to use the site.  I've read all types of complaints of funds getting tied up so I'd be very cautious of the amount of trading on a site that offers no fees until it has shown it is not scam. 

Well to be honest you should always worry about your bitcoins on someone else's private keys....always. Never store your bitcoins in any wallet but your own, otherwise you run the risk of getting "goxed" whether they intentionally run with  your bitcoins or they get hacked and they are gone.

Put coins/money on the exchange -> execute the desired exchange -> send coins back to your personal wallet. Even if you're a day trader, at the end of every day I'd still move all the coins off the exchange....as far as fiat goes, well that would be stuck until you execute another buy order.

This is very true. But it is even more so when you are entrusting your money to someone that is offering a deal that is really too good to be true. What they are in effect doing is providing a service for free while having no way to support the cost of their operations.

[Keyara]

killing all opponent with free fee, and then cut wool form users

They don't have to cut wool after their competitors are dead.

They can raise the fee slightly but keep it low enough to stop new competitor from entering the same business.

[botany]

killing all opponent with free fee, and then cut wool form users

They don't have to cut wool after their competitors are dead.

They can raise the fee slightly but keep it low enough to stop new competitor from entering the same business.

A new competitor with deep pockets could still undercut them.

[capoeira]

BitVc page is solw as hell. why??

and when does it get advanced order types like stop-loss?

[lomalio]

Okay I sent them a small amount of BTC for trading. Amount that I can lose for experimentation. They seem to do rounding down to 4 decimals when depositing. So 0.000523 will become 0.0005. I don't know if that rounding is for display only, but I can't find any evidence that I still have it.

Did you try trading those? Are you able to trade all 0.000523 or just 0.0005 BTC?

all trading is in 4 decimal places only. so no i cant trade those other digits. when i withdrew the full amount, i didn't get those rightmost digits too. so it means they take that amount for themselves when they deposit.  also they take  0.0001 "network fee" for withdrawals.

still better than bter where coins used to just disappear.

[Full Spectrum]

Maybe the exchange converts a certain portion of Bitcoin into Fiat, this way they can use it for investment purposes... heck, Coinapult's LOCKS system is based on a similar concept.

But the only way we can know is to start a run on the exchange, but who'd want to do that?

[wasserman99]

Maybe the exchange converts a certain portion of Bitcoin into Fiat, this way they can use it for investment purposes... heck, Coinapult's LOCKS system is based on a similar concept.

But the only way we can know is to start a run on the exchange, but who'd want to do that?

If they did this then they would have exchange rate risk because they would lose money in the event that bitcoin would increase in value verses what they sold the coins for.

I think that any exchange that does not charge any kind of trading fee is almost certain to be scamming in some way and customers will almost certainly end up loosing money.

[justforbtc]

BitVC is owned by HUOBI, the order book shown in BitVC are actually order book of HUOBI exchange. Thus, don't worry BitVC will run away with your money.

But wait...doesn't huobi have 0% fees also?

How does Huobi make money?

I believe they charge you to withdraw your money.

Bank card withdrawal
fee 0.3% - 0.5%, cash credited within 24 hours

Providing loans to users for leverage trading as well

[justforbtc]

BitVc page is solw as hell. why??

and when does it get advanced order types like stop-loss?

You should contact support to report the case. The site is accessed very fast in China. I think you can use VPN with China server to resolve to your problem.

[capoeira]

BitVc page is solw as hell. why??

and when does it get advanced order types like stop-loss?

You should contact support to report the case. The site is accessed very fast in China. I think you can use VPN with China server to resolve to your problem.

today it's better, about 5-6 seconds to load market + orderbook

do you anything about if they plan to make advanced orders like stops available?

[dothebeats]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

[capoeira]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

[galbros]

Build up a user base and then run away with everyone's coins.

I always assume Run Away with the Coins^TM is the plan when there are no fees.  I was actually glad when coinedup added fees, only to mostly close like a month later.

Businesses have costs and have to meet them somehow.  Though I agree with the posters who talk about other fees, e.g. withdrawal or advertising.  In short, if you are not paying a fee you are not the customer, you are a product.

[Ayers]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

[transient858]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

BTC-China is trying to reverse the trend of losing market share to okcoin.

Don't think customer will head back as okcoin offer more features.

[itsAj]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

[scryptasicminer]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

[wasserman99]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

Whatsapp is an instant messaging tool/app. The costs associated with this are much less then what are associated with running an exchange. I would also not be surprised if there is some level of advertisements when users run this app (I have not personally used it so I don't know one way or another). Exchanges on the other hand do not have ads.

Also once an exchange has market share it will likely lose market share if/when it's prices become uncompetitive as many traders have accounts at many exchanges and it would not be difficult to move from one exchange to another.

[capoeira]

most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing

only that this doesn't exist in free market.

[itsAj]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

I don't think whatsapp is actually charging "0" to their users as they are pushing advertisements which they are receiving revenue from. The exchanges are not doing this. To say that something like whatsapp is "free" is really misleading.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Build up a user base and then run away with everyone's coins.

Sounds about right, the other way is sponsorships and advertising but that usually comes when a service has a large dedicated userbase or some venture capital funding to back them up in order to attract new users.
That said its always best to be cautious.

[arbitrage001]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

I don't think whatsapp is actually charging "0" to their users as they are pushing advertisements which they are receiving revenue from. The exchanges are not doing this. To say that something like whatsapp is "free" is really misleading.

Whatsapp will start charging fee next year I believe. Now that they have network effect and people are basically stucked with all their contacts using it, they will need to pay fee to continue using it.

[titulng]

Maybe thanks to adviertisements.

too naive 

[capoeira]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

I don't think whatsapp is actually charging "0" to their users as they are pushing advertisements which they are receiving revenue from. The exchanges are not doing this. To say that something like whatsapp is "free" is really misleading.

Whatsapp will start charging fee next year I believe. Now that they have network effect and people are basically stucked with all their contacts using it, they will need to pay fee to continue using it.

they will lose 90% of the users. there are many free alts, like the 20x better Skype

[routecrypto]

Probably the zero fee exchanges earn through the banner ads on the website, I can't see other ways.

[Mightycoin]

Probably the zero fee exchanges earn through the banner ads on the website, I can't see other ways.

Or may be not they are just investing to gain costumers and later they charge when you start using on usual basis.They might even have some other ideas in mind like scamming just waiting for a big deal

[itsAj]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

I don't think whatsapp is actually charging "0" to their users as they are pushing advertisements which they are receiving revenue from. The exchanges are not doing this. To say that something like whatsapp is "free" is really misleading.

Whatsapp will start charging fee next year I believe. Now that they have network effect and people are basically stucked with all their contacts using it, they will need to pay fee to continue using it.

I am sure that it would be very easy to get contact information (likely phone numbers) of people that are regularly communicated with via whatsapp. As a result charging no fees will do nothing for them long term except get a bunch of accounts that will never be used once a fee is implemented.

[scryptasicminer]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

I don't think whatsapp is actually charging "0" to their users as they are pushing advertisements which they are receiving revenue from. The exchanges are not doing this. To say that something like whatsapp is "free" is really misleading.

Whatsapp will start charging fee next year I believe. Now that they have network effect and people are basically stucked with all their contacts using it, they will need to pay fee to continue using it.

they will lose 90% of the users. there are many free alts, like the 20x better Skype

Not everyone want to deal with inconvenient of keeping more than one application to keep track of all the clients.

The fee of $1 per year will not make business type switch.

[itsAj]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

I don't think whatsapp is actually charging "0" to their users as they are pushing advertisements which they are receiving revenue from. The exchanges are not doing this. To say that something like whatsapp is "free" is really misleading.

Whatsapp will start charging fee next year I believe. Now that they have network effect and people are basically stucked with all their contacts using it, they will need to pay fee to continue using it.

they will lose 90% of the users. there are many free alts, like the 20x better Skype

Not everyone want to deal with inconvenient of keeping more than one application to keep track of all the clients.

The fee of $1 per year will not make business type switch.

The business types are not their target market. They are trying to appeal to the masses. I would think that most of their base would never consider paying anything. If they tried to charge anything then their users might do something crazy like...who knows.....talk to others in person.

[desticy]

killing all opponent with free fee, and then cut wool form users

They don't have to cut wool after their competitors are dead.

They can raise the fee slightly but keep it low enough to stop new competitor from entering the same business.

A new competitor with deep pockets could still undercut them.

yes, market capitalization of bitcoin is still too small

[wasserman99]

It's impossible for an exchange to profit without implementing service fees to the users who use their service. Maybe there are fees, though not transaction fees that we are used to. Withdrawal fees must be present in there. I doubt that it will be feasible for them to continue such a service, unless there are some things going on in the background that most of know nothing about. :O

BTC-China has 0 fees like for a year or so

how they make money then? voting?, alscene is dead voting is pretty much useless now

I really don't think they can make money. They also are not a charity and do not accept donations. I think that most reasonable people can draw the conclusion that they are doing something that they should not be doing as it makes no sense for them to charge 0 fees and still be able to stay in business.

Whatsapp charge 0 fee to capture market share first. These exchanges are probably doing the same.

I don't think whatsapp is actually charging "0" to their users as they are pushing advertisements which they are receiving revenue from. The exchanges are not doing this. To say that something like whatsapp is "free" is really misleading.

Whatsapp will start charging fee next year I believe. Now that they have network effect and people are basically stucked with all their contacts using it, they will need to pay fee to continue using it.

they will lose 90% of the users. there are many free alts, like the 20x better Skype

I agree. There are simply too many free ways to be able to communicate for anyone to be willing to pay anything of monetary value. People would likely be willing to look at asks in order to pay for chat like services.

The issue with exchanges is that ad revenue would likely not pay for the expenses associated with running an exchange so this would really not be an option.

[Hustle2survive]

Whatsapp uses the classic ask for a bit in a huge userbase = big money scheme.

[Damnyo]

I guess they get legitimate amounts from ads on the sides.