Comparing Anonymous Coins

[poornamelessme]

Isn't DarkWallet a coin join implementation? If that is correct then I think my assertation that Zerocash will be more anonymous than that is correct.

I haven't kept track of DarkWallet, but don't believe it's trustless at this point. Just saying if they do get it all fancy and trustless down the road, it'd make anonymous alts sort of pointless.

The only problem I have with Zerocash is that its devs seem to use a different timeframe than most in the cryptoworld use. By the time they actually make the thing, it may be too late.

[CoinHoarder]

Whenever ZeroCash is released I think it could be the best option as far as anonymity goes.

Otherwise, currently Darkcoin or Monero are probably your best bets.

Finally someone that isn't complaining/trolling both of these options.
Indeed ZeroCash is very good but we have yet to wait and see if they will deliver what they've promised.
For anyone that doubts Darkcoin they should do 8 rounds of anonymizing and see what happens.

I don't believe in the "one coin to rule them all" mentality. I think there are benefits of competing crypto currencies and cooperating crypto currencies with the same goals. Such as the Nxt/Bitshares rivalry and the Storj/Maidsafe cooperation.

[super3]

Whenever ZeroCash is released I think it could be the best option as far as anonymity goes.

Otherwise, currently Darkcoin or Monero are probably your best bets.

Finally someone that isn't complaining/trolling both of these options.
Indeed ZeroCash is very good but we have yet to wait and see if they will deliver what they've promised.
For anyone that doubts Darkcoin they should do 8 rounds of anonymizing and see what happens.

I don't believe in the "one coin to rule them all" mentality. I think there are benefits of competing crypto currencies and cooperating crypto currencies with the same goals. Such as the Nxt/Bitshares rivalry and the Storj/Maidsafe cooperation.

Storj dev here. Just trust me when I say cooperation is way better than competition.

[CoinHoarder]

Whenever ZeroCash is released I think it could be the best option as far as anonymity goes.

Otherwise, currently Darkcoin or Monero are probably your best bets.

Finally someone that isn't complaining/trolling both of these options.
Indeed ZeroCash is very good but we have yet to wait and see if they will deliver what they've promised.
For anyone that doubts Darkcoin they should do 8 rounds of anonymizing and see what happens.

I don't believe in the "one coin to rule them all" mentality. I think there are benefits of competing crypto currencies and cooperating crypto currencies with the same goals. Such as the Nxt/Bitshares rivalry and the Storj/Maidsafe cooperation.

Storj dev here. Just trust me when I say cooperation is way better than competition.

I agree, but some people just can't play together... it is sad to see all the fighting between Nxt and Bitshares.  

Honestly, it seems to be mostly Nxt attacking Bitshares, they have attacked Ethereum a lot in the past as well. Anyways... I think competition is better than no competition and no cooperation.

Isn't DarkWallet a coin join implementation? If that is correct then I think my assertation that Zerocash will be more anonymous than that is correct.

I haven't kept track of DarkWallet, but don't believe it's trustless at this point. Just saying if they do get it all fancy and trustless down the road, it'd make anonymous alts sort of pointless.

The only problem I have with Zerocash is that its devs seem to use a different timeframe than most in the cryptoworld use. By the time they actually make the thing, it may be too late.

I pretty much agree with you here. I mentioned this in another thread about anonymity, but I think for anon coins to survive in the long haul they need to have other features and/or advantages rather than simply just being anonymous. Otherwise the anon crypto currency's user base will be narrowed down to people that use it for nefarious purposes and people that understand the value of financial privacy, which will deeply affect volume and liquidity.

[Joshuar]

Whenever ZeroCash is released I think it could be the best option as far as anonymity goes.

Otherwise, currently Darkcoin or Monero are probably your best bets.

Finally someone that isn't complaining/trolling both of these options.
Indeed ZeroCash is very good but we have yet to wait and see if they will deliver what they've promised.
For anyone that doubts Darkcoin they should do 8 rounds of anonymizing and see what happens.

I don't believe in the "one coin to rule them all" mentality. I think there are benefits of competing crypto currencies and cooperating crypto currencies with the same goals. Such as the Nxt/Bitshares rivalry and the Storj/Maidsafe cooperation.

Storj dev here. Just trust me when I say cooperation is way better than competition.

I agree, but some people just can't play together... it is sad to see all the fighting between Nxt and Bitshares.  

Honestly, it seems to be mostly Nxt attacking Bitshares, they have attacked Ethereum a lot in the past as well. Anyways... I think competition is better than no competition and no cooperation.

Isn't DarkWallet a coin join implementation? If that is correct then I think my assertation that Zerocash will be more anonymous than that is correct.

I haven't kept track of DarkWallet, but don't believe it's trustless at this point. Just saying if they do get it all fancy and trustless down the road, it'd make anonymous alts sort of pointless.

The only problem I have with Zerocash is that its devs seem to use a different timeframe than most in the cryptoworld use. By the time they actually make the thing, it may be too late.

I pretty much agree with you here. I mentioned this in another thread about anonymity, but I think for anon coins to survive in the long haul they need to have other features and/or advantages rather than simply just being anonymous. Otherwise the anon crypto currency's user base will be narrowed down to people that use it for nefarious purposes and people that understand the value of financial privacy, which will deeply affect volume and liquidity.

Agreed, but out of all the features that some altcoins have, Privacy is the most important for obvious reasons. I believe once these anon coins(Monero and Dark) have the anon/privacy features down pat, then other things could/should be incorporated in based around making the coin as secure as possible/improving/making it user friendly, etc.

[CoinHoarder]

Agreed, but out of all the features that some altcoins have, Privacy is the most important for obvious reasons. I believe once these anon coins(Monero and Dark) have the anon/privacy features down pat, then other things could/should be incorporated in based around making the coin as secure as possible/improving/making it user friendly, etc.

That sounds like a good plan, I guess we are on the same page.

I think most people don't understand how big a problem privacy is in the larger crypto currencies, and the privacy implications that come along with that. It is nice to see that some people "get it", as there are many non nefarious reasons to want to protect your privacy!! This (making anonymous crypto currencies or crypto currencies more anonymous) is not only about protecting our privacy, but also about protecting the people that don't understand that.

I can't really keep up with all the various projects as I'm interested in too many. There are a lot of great projects going nowadays, it is pretty exciting!

[Lauda]

I pretty much agree with you here. I mentioned this in another thread about anonymity, but I think for anon coins to survive in the long haul they need to have other features and/or advantages rather than simply just being anonymous. Otherwise the anon crypto currency's user base will be narrowed down to people that use it for nefarious purposes and people that understand the value of financial privacy, which will deeply affect volume and liquidity.

Indeed I guess that's why DRK has Dark Tor planned. I'm sure that if they came up with such an idea that they can come up with much more.
Anonymity can not at any time be the only feature that a coin has to provide. That can't hold out for long just like you've said.
It will be interesting what happens after RC5 and one day after Dark Tor (hopefully) gets released.

[CoinHoarder]

I pretty much agree with you here. I mentioned this in another thread about anonymity, but I think for anon coins to survive in the long haul they need to have other features and/or advantages rather than simply just being anonymous. Otherwise the anon crypto currency's user base will be narrowed down to people that use it for nefarious purposes and people that understand the value of financial privacy, which will deeply affect volume and liquidity.

Indeed I guess that's why DRK has Dark Tor planned. I'm sure that if they came up with such an idea that they can come up with much more.
Anonymity can not at any time be the only feature that a coin has to provide. That can't hold out for long just like you've said.
It will be interesting what happens after RC5 and one day after Dark Tor (hopefully) gets released.

I agree Dark Tor sounds pretty neat. One thing has me worried though... Are they planning on charging people to use it? I'm not sure that's going to work out too well considering TOR is free. I think I saw a poll about this yesterday.. Something like "how much would you pay for it?" I voted for nothing, and it was well in the lead, I imagine that option beat out all the others by a large margin.

RC5 is a newer iteration of Dark Send or what??

[Lauda]

I agree Dark Tor sounds pretty neat. One thing has me worried though... Are they planning on charging people to use it? I'm not sure that's going to work out too well considering TOR is free. I think I saw a poll about this yesterday.. Something like "how much would you pay for it?" I voted for nothing, and it was well in the lead, I imagine that option beat out all the others by a large margin.

RC5 is a newer iteration of Dark Send or what??

Well they were discussing it because the costs would be higher for MN owners than they are now. I mean people could be using a ton of bandwidth for free. RC5 is the upcoming 'major' update to DRK. It will consist mostly out of fixes and upgrades to the anonymity from what I know. Maybe even Kristov Atlas will be finished with his audit after which soon DRK will be going open source.

[CoinHoarder]

I agree Dark Tor sounds pretty neat. One thing has me worried though... Are they planning on charging people to use it? I'm not sure that's going to work out too well considering TOR is free. I think I saw a poll about this yesterday.. Something like "how much would you pay for it?" I voted for nothing, and it was well in the lead, I imagine that option beat out all the others by a large margin.

RC5 is a newer iteration of Dark Send or what??

Well they were discussing it because the costs would be higher for MN owners than they are now. I mean people could be using a ton of bandwidth for free. RC5 is the upcoming 'major' update to DRK. It will consist mostly out of fixes and upgrades to the anonymity from what I know. Maybe even Kristov Atlas will be finished with his audit after which soon DRK will be going open source.

Cool, I need to go do some research on RC5.

I agree it could use a lot of bandwidth and cost users that support the network, but TOR is supported by volunteers... it is hard to compete with free if your service is not free itself. I just can't imagine it taking market share from TOR if you need to pay to use it. I guess that is just my opinion/speculation though.

[Joshuar]

I agree Dark Tor sounds pretty neat. One thing has me worried though... Are they planning on charging people to use it? I'm not sure that's going to work out too well considering TOR is free. I think I saw a poll about this yesterday.. Something like "how much would you pay for it?" I voted for nothing, and it was well in the lead, I imagine that option beat out all the others by a large margin.

RC5 is a newer iteration of Dark Send or what??

Well they were discussing it because the costs would be higher for MN owners than they are now. I mean people could be using a ton of bandwidth for free. RC5 is the upcoming 'major' update to DRK. It will consist mostly out of fixes and upgrades to the anonymity from what I know. Maybe even Kristov Atlas will be finished with his audit after which soon DRK will be going open source.

Cool, I need to go do some research on RC5.

I agree it could use a lot of bandwidth and cost users that support the network, but TOR is supported by volunteers... it is hard to compete with free if your service is not free itself. I just can't imagine it taking market share from TOR if you need to pay to use it. I guess that is just my opinion/speculation though.

I suppose masternodes could pay to support the network.

I could definitely imagine it taking some users from TOR, paid or not, especially that TOR is partly funded by the U.S Government..

[CoinHoarder]

I suppose masternodes could pay to support the network.

I could definitely imagine it taking some users from TOR, paid or not, especially that TOR is partly funded by the U.S Government..

You have a point there. It may work as a paid service, and some fear that TOR has already been compromised by the NSA. I don't personally believe this.. I think they can compromise a small amount of traffic but for the most part they can't. However, DarkTOR can suffer from the same, no? By the government setting up DarkTOR nodes themselves?

Another way to look at it being free would be as a marketing strategy... Having free DarkTOR can be a way of stealing the black market business from Bitcoin. As of now most of the deep web is largely still using Bitcoins, so you could look at it as a marketing strategy. It would create perhaps more of a demand and reason to use Darkcoin over Bitcoin, as they don't seem to be too particularly worried about it at the moment.

Kind of like Dropbox offers free service up to a certain amount of Mb, or Teamviewer offers free personal use and charges for business use. It is good to introduce people to the technology/company and purchase other services.

[Lauda]

Cool, I need to go do some research on RC5.

I agree it could use a lot of bandwidth and cost users that support the network, but TOR is supported by volunteers... it is hard to compete with free if your service is not free itself. I just can't imagine it taking market share from TOR if you need to pay to use it. I guess that is just my opinion/speculation though.

If you read up on the recent news regarding TOR, there isn't that much trust in it anymore. Yeah it's good that it is free, but seems like it has flaws.
Is it really much to pay 10 or 20 cents a day for something as Dark Tor. Go over to the forums of DRK and start reading then.

[Joshuar]

I suppose masternodes could pay to support the network.

I could definitely imagine it taking some users from TOR, paid or not, especially that TOR is partly funded by the U.S Government..

You have a point there. It may work as a paid service, and some fear that TOR has already been compromised by the NSA. I don't personally believe this.. I think they can compromise a small amount of traffic but for the most part they can't. However, DarkTOR can suffer from the same, no? By the government setting up DarkTOR nodes themselves?

Another way to look at it being free would be as a marketing strategy... Having free DarkTOR can be a way of stealing the black market business from Bitcoin. As of now most of the deep web is largely still using Bitcoins, so you could look at it as a marketing strategy. It would create perhaps more of a demand and reason to use Darkcoin over Bitcoin, as they don't seem to be too particularly worried about it at the moment.

Kind of like Dropbox offers free service up to a certain amount of Mb, or Teamviewer offers free personal use and charges for business use. It is good to introduce people to the technology/company and purchase other services.

To think of it, that would be a very good marketing strategy. It's true that the deep web mostly uses Bitcoins, but with a service like DarkTOR or Iris(that seems to be a popular name on the drk thread), it's likely that sites on the deep web would migrate to darkcoin's version of TOR, especially since Darkcoin has anonymous sending, with that altogether creating large demand for Darkcoin.

[rikkejohn]

anonymity is only desirable if you need to be anonymous.

However, the coins we are discussing are really just schemes to make money. I'd be surprised if much money was spent on them to launder or pay for assassins.

In truth, they are a fad, and the technology behind them is only interesting insofar as it is the best that people could come up with.

I don't think any will survive, with the possible exception of DRK. However, DRK seems to be following in the footsteps of Doge.

So we're left with BTC and LTC.

Actually, I'm surprised the SHA3 coins don't get more interest. Like the X coins, they are multi-algo, they just don't pretend to be made for James Bond or the criminal underworld.

Laughable.

[Lauda]

-snip-
I don't think any will survive, with the possible exception of DRK. However, DRK seems to be following in the footsteps of Doge.

Following the footsteps of Doge? Let's examine this.
Doge was based on a meme and didn't offer any real features and had a ridiculous supply.
DRK is not based on a meme nor does it have such a supply. DRK promised and delivered anonymity (Darksend+).
Exactly why is it following the footsteps of Doge? Because the price is down? Because the market was manipulated?

[Joshuar]

-snip-
I don't think any will survive, with the possible exception of DRK. However, DRK seems to be following in the footsteps of Doge.

Following the footsteps of Doge? Let's examine this.
Doge was based on a meme and didn't offer any real features and had a ridiculous supply.
DRK is not based on a meme nor does it have such a supply. DRK promised and delivered anonymity (Darksend+).
Exactly why is it following the footsteps of Doge? Because the price is down? Because the market was manipulated?

I would just ignore him. Recently I've seen a bunch of troll posts by rikkiejohn....


Bitcoin's privacy is low-level compared to even a credit card's...Once you are connected to an address, or series of address, your entire transaction history in in the open for All to see. Altcoins like Monero and Darkcoin that are serious contenders for privacy is a Need, not a want.

[rikkejohn]

-snip-
I don't think any will survive, with the possible exception of DRK. However, DRK seems to be following in the footsteps of Doge.

Following the footsteps of Doge? Let's examine this.
Doge was based on a meme and didn't offer any real features and had a ridiculous supply.
DRK is not based on a meme nor does it have such a supply. DRK promised and delivered anonymity (Darksend+).
Exactly why is it following the footsteps of Doge? Because the price is down? Because the market was manipulated?

to answer your questions, it is following Doge in terms that it was a high performer for a number of months, and is now starting to look like a coin being slowly dumped.

And the supply of coins is irrelevant, given there is no law stating you must buy 1 minimum.

All that matters is interest. If there is interest the coin will be a success for a short period of time before it nosedives, in common with every other altcoin.

There are possibly two ways out of that predicament:

1. The coin becomes adopted by the public to some degree (like BTC has just about achieved and LTC appeared to be achieving only to fall back)
2. The coin is technologically so advanced or the idea is incredibly marketable outside of the cryptoworld that a venture capitalist grabs all rights to it, and pays the developer some money.

I don't see any coins out there that come close. The possible exception was Ripple, but it was badly managed and the team involved was not equipped to take it to the big league.

The rest are just ... waiting  ... to ...die

[CoinHoarder]

This thread went downhill fast.. we were having such a good conversation before.

[newjack]

Well, I've found this thread incredibly helpful, and the DarkTor thing everyone is intrigued by does seem pretty cool. I must admit at one point I was attracted by the possibility of "investing" in the various coins, but the more I thought about it the less concerned I was. I have a bit of a background in gold and silver. There are a lot of scams in that field I admit, however, having an alternative currency that arguably is a buffer to inflation or just creates an alternative commerce route is the real potential gift of altcoins it seems to me. And frankly the more mainstream acceptance BitCoin gets, the less able it is to do the things that I need it to do.