[ANN] A public company will build a huge Bitcoin Mining Operation (ASIC).

[cypherdoc]

Good luck my friend.

"Do not fir Vladimir."

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[bitbonga]

Free research. Post your ideas here.

[Serge]

this is great news
people jumping gun too early, this is a huge undertaking and could take few years to execute. and this is just a beginning, a glimpse into the future developments around Bitcoin.

[jamesg]

this is great news
people jumping gun too early, this is a huge undertaking and could take few years to execute. and this is just a beginning, a glimpse into the future developments around Bitcoin.

6-9 months in the funding is ready to go.

[fuuka]

Why announce before you can even invest?  Or are even an entity that could be invested in?  Who is funding the initial research and dev?

If the first batch of ASICs comes back flawed, will there be enough capital to continue development?  What if it takes more tries than that?

Personal opinion:

Vague announcements like this only create uncertainty for everyone involved.  Is that how you really want to start a relationship with investors?  It either means that development has only just started (ie it will be a long time before any product) or it's a scam in some way.

[rjk]

Why announce before you can even invest?  Or are even an entity that could be invested in?  Who is funding the initial research and dev?

If the first batch of ASICs comes back flawed, will there be enough capital to continue development?  What if it takes more tries than that?

Personal opinion:

Vague announcements like this only create uncertainty for everyone involved.  Is that how you really want to start a relationship with investors?  It either means that development has only just started (ie it will be a long time before any product) or it's a scam in some way.

It's supposed to discourage the competitors and push them out of the market, but it certainly hasn't done so to Vladamir's project.

[molecular]

Good luck my friend.

"Do not fir Vladimir."

lol!

tell me when glbse shares are available

[Dusty]

To anyone complaining, if what Vladimir is doing is so lucrative, you'll have no trouble starting your own ASIC farm and taking a share of the market. If it's not, then what have you got to worry about.

You assume that Vladimir will be the only guy who ever mines on a massive scale. This isn't the banking sector, where GOVERNMENT FORCE prevents competition.

Free market cartels are unsustainable, because there is a great incentive for any participant to break from the cartel and undercut their competitors.

Damn state apologists make me sick!

+100

People nowadays is so used to government interventionism in every aspect of his life that is unable to just even understand how tough is free market competition for the sellers and how good can be for regular users.

For starters, just think on the massive risk these early investors will take with this project.
If it will fail, they will lose their money (not yours, like with government failures), if they'll succeed then a lot of other people will try to do better than them, investing their money (not yours).

And Bitcoin will thrive.

[cyberlync]

following

[bg002h]

Anyone who thinks vladimir's idea is a bad one must realize that of he doesn't do it, someone will. In fact, if no one try's hard to build powerful rigs, that is equivalent to bitcoin not being valuable (otherwise people would do hard things like design ASIC chips and assemble mining farms and companies to earn valuable bitcoins).

I think it is a good thing for bitcoin that people are treating them as valuable enough to work hard to mine them in a professional manner. Everyone should try to do what Vladimir is doing, instead of saying no one should work that hard to earn bitcoins (and hence implying that bitcoins aren't valuable enough to work really hard for).

I think this means bitcoin is moving from hobby to capitalism.

[P4man]

Some things dont quite add up. In one post you say you

We will be simply buying ASIC hardware from leading manufacturers and employ our scale and bargaining power to secure the best possible deal for our shareholders.

(Also note the plural, manufacturers).

In another you say:

Have you (or your partners/suppliers) designed the chip?

Yes, we have. We are in advanced stages of design testing and manufacturing process.

Which is it? If you are buying the chip, then so can anyone else, and I fail to see what your big competitive advantage would be.

If you designed the chip, or had it designed and you own the design, then you wouldnt have any suppliers to chose from or bargain with (its not like you are going to have any leverage over TSMC to fab it, you are going to have to beg to get a few dozen wafers!)  and the financial picture would look dramatically different.

In the latter case, its also completely unclear where you are. If you are doing design testing, I assume you havent taped out yet, and you are going to need a few million dollar to get that first mask set done and to get your first silicon several months from here - silicon which may or may not work.

Not saying that couldnt be worth investing in, but its a million times more risky than buying chips off the shelve, and Id be careful making bold claims about performance and efficiency if you havent even taped out yet.

[Vladimir]

P4man, great reading comprehension skills. Kudos to you!

 The first quote refers to long term plans. The second one refers to immediate plans (the first batch). Also to clarify, "We" refers to us and our subcontractors.

  However, your analysis of our (and our subcontractors) manufacturing options is not entirely accurate. At this stage I am not at liberty to disclose all the details publicly, unfortunately, and therefore I have to be fairly vague.

  What you have described does indicate pretty accurately the difficulties our would be competitors most likely will have to deal with, I must add.

  We still will have to take some risks associated with final stages of design/manufacturing ASIC chips and building mining rigs based on those. We are not buying core components off the shelves yet (obviously).

 Generally, greater risks bring greater rewards.

[P4man]

P4man, great reading comprehension skills. Kudos to you!

 The first quote refers to long term plans. The second one refers to immediate plans (the first batch). Also to clarify, "We" refers to us and our subcontractors.

 
That makes no sense at all. So you plan to first develop your own chip in the "short term", for the first batch, while the long term plan is to buy off the shelve chips?  Did you mix up first and second quote?

If you mixed them up, Im going to assume the short term plan is to buy Largecoin chips (or more likely, appliances),  and the plans to develop your own chip are just that, plans. In the short run, I also wonder what kind of bargaining power you think you will have over Largecoin, assuming they are legit, since they will most likely have a monopoly on bitcoin asics for quite some time. Not too mention the fact you just declared you want to compete with them.

Anyway, not sure how much information you are willing to give potential investors, but no offense, with what you posted here so far, Id have to think long and  hard about investing all of one bitcoin in your businessplan.

[Vladimir]

No I have not mixed the quotes. First we use custom chips, then eventually when other manufacturers join the fry we continue as a bitcoin mining company buying the best possible hardware from the best possible supplier.

The company I am talking about itself is focusing not on ASIC manufacturing (we have subcontractors for that) but on mining and on being public company and being listed on public exchanges eventually and attracting to bitcoin financial resources that would not touch it due to lack of legal ways to do so on "large" scale.

Thank you for suggestion of thinking more about the business plan. I'll consider this. But you should understand that I am tied by NDA's and can say only so much. I am being vague not from lack of business plan, but because I can say only so much.

I, however, can disclose that Largecoin is not our subcontractor or supplier and we have no plans of buying anything from them. Not until they can produce significantly better product, at least.

not sure how much information you are willing to give potential investors

I am not talking here with potential investors. Just informing the public about our plans. At this time any serious talks with qualified potential investors are done in private and under NDA's.

[P4man]

No I have not mixed the quotes. First we use custom chips,

Well, in that case you are not getting my 1 BTC.

Seriously, developing an ASIC costs at least hundreds of thousands of dollars, producing a mask set is in the millions. But once you have that (and ignoring all the rest), producing the actual chips only costs you like a few dozen dollar each, if that.

If your plan is to invest millions in your own chip, only to toss that away soon after and buy chips from other companies who obviously price their chips to recoup their invested millions, well, then, someone needs to go back to the drawing board.

If you are saying someone else is developing that ASIC, then you will have close to zero leverage over them, and calling them subcontractor is deceiving; its a supplier. Either you pay for and own the design and mask set, or you dont. Which is it?

[Vladimir]

P4man, thank you for your questions. I will try to make things as clear as I possibly can. However, I may not be able to
answer any specific follow up questions or make any further public statements just yet.

We have a long term strategic partnership with a private subcontractor that is building mining hardware for us.
The leverage we have is of a contractual nature and it grants us a number of advantages as compared to what general
public or our competitors may or may not get access to eventually.

This is the foundation of our competitive advantage. Additionally, we expect to be the first to the market with
this technology, we also expect to provide a natural and low risk bitcoin investment route within traditional legal frameworks
for those who are now outside of bitcoin economy.

[P4man]

I understand you may not be able to give all details, but the fundamentals of your business plan still arent clear to me.

Am I right saying the IP, chip design (and mask set, assuming there is one yet?) belong to a third party supplier ?

See, the difference between owning the IP (and bearing the associated development costs and risks), regardless if the work is done in house or by a contractor, versus buying a product from a supplier who owns the IP and mask, and took the brunt of the risk, is rather crucial. One is a high risk/high potential multi million dollar venture, the other is not, or at least not necessarily.

[terrytibbs]

I understand you may not be able to give all details, but the fundamentals of your business plan still arent clear to me.

Am I right saying the IP, chip design (and mask set, assuming there is one yet?) belong to a third party supplier ?

See, the difference between owning the IP (and bearing the associated development costs and risks), regardless if the work is done in house or by a contractor, versus buying a product from a supplier who owns the IP and mask, and took the brunt of the risk, is rather crucial. One is a high risk/high potential multi million dollar venture, the other is not, or at least not necessarily.

+1

[disclaimer201]

Having read the entire thread I don 't understand what its purpose is other than some kind of scam. It doesn't look or sound professional to me and I think it's only to spread fear and confusion. I highly doubt many people will trust any money with this "public" company. If I had the ability to pull something like this off the hell would I do to announce it in some forum. I'd also not look for real investors here apart from suckers to screw over.

If MM is still around (see solominer thread) and screwing with the network I'm all for changing the protocol in order to protect Bitcoin. If >51% are held by a single entity even if Bitcoin would still be able to operate technically the experiment is over. Most people will abandon it and abandon promoting it before it is has become anywhere near mainstream. If this development is inevitable, as some here say, bitcoins doom may be inevitable. Bitcoin will need a wide userbase to support it for quite some time. Even speculators would quickly look for a new game (after having shorted BTC to death).

Seriously people. This is shit. "Tainted coins", MM's empty blocks, now this ASIC monopoly threat, do you honestly expect people will invest more into a project that gets riskier day by day???

To Vlad, good luck. If you succeed, you will make a lot of people lose a lot of money. It's not your fault though. It's the way economics work.

Here's a quote from the late 19th century:

"It is always sound business to take any obtainable net gain, at any cost and at any risk to the rest of the community."
Thorstein Veblen

[Vladimir]

If you succeed, you will make a lot of people lose a lot of money.

I know. They, however, will not be able to claim that they have not received a fair and advance warning.