[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Hueristic]

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Is this bad or very bad for monero?

Neither, It has zero effect. We are all well aware of that project and whenever it finishes it still will not effect XMR. Patching a leaking boat will not make it float as long as a hull made of better materials.

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[dEBRUYNE]

...

Is this bad or very bad for monero?

Neither, It has zero effect. We are all well aware of that project and whenever it finishes it still will not effect XMR. Patching a leaking boat will not make it float as long as a hull made of better materials.

Interestingly I found out a few weeks ago (courtesy of TPTB_need_war) that Zerocash (Zcash) doesn't have such a thing as a viewkey. The first Wired article states:

But Zerocoin’s new AngelList page also notes that if necessary, the same zero-knowledge proof trick can also allow a zerocoin user to forego that privacy and choose to reveal proof that any individual transaction was his or hers—say, as a receipt for some zerocoin purchase. “We are adding *selective disclosure* to Bitcoin and Blockchain technologies,” the AngelList page reads. “Transaction metadata in the Blockchain is confidential by default but can be disclosed to specific parties. This allows the best of both worlds: both strong privacy and transparency on the Blockchain.”

Initially, this seems to be some kind of viewkey. However, I found out that this is actually some sort of key that one can reveal on a case by case basis, which Monero also has (the tx key).

Info about the tx key:

...
Whether Monero exists as a test bed for features that will be assimilated into bitcoin, or Monero will simply live as a parallel, opaque option to the transparent bitcoin chain, or perhaps just take over and leave bitcoin in the dust. All this will play out.
...

One of my favorite things about Monero is how it can exist as both opaque and transparent.  If I wish for an account to be transparent, I can simply expose my viewkey.

The view key is well known, but it can be a blunt instrument, since it reveals all payments for the entire lifetime of an account (including past and future). It is less known that you can disclose individual payments on a case by case basis, as needed:

In case Alice wants to prove she sent a transaction to Bob’s address she can either disclose r or use any kind of zero-knowledge protocol to prove she knows r (for example by signing the transaction with r)

In my opinion, this is a huge advantage for Monero.

[americanpegasus]

Interestingly I found out a few weeks ago (courtesy of TPTB_need_war) that Zerocash (Zcash) doesn't have such a thing as a viewkey. The first Wired article states:

In my opinion, this is a huge advantage for Monero.

 
 
The words 'huge advantage' are a gross understatement here.  This isn't just about taxation and legal compliance.  There are entire classes of necessary applications that cannot exist without a viewkey. 
 
For example, let's say you and I use Monero tokens to enable a digital contract that only we know about.  First of all, this is an unpondered Monero killer-app: irreversible private contracts that two entities can make without the need for anyone else to ever know. 
 
But it's the view key that makes this possible, because without that we would need to give someone access to the edit the underlying contract to prove it exists.  This is a huge nail in the coffin for Zerocash. 
 
Will it eventually exist and be useful for some things?  Yes.  But Monero will still be superior.

[dEBRUYNE]

Interestingly I found out a few weeks ago (courtesy of TPTB_need_war) that Zerocash (Zcash) doesn't have such a thing as a viewkey. The first Wired article states:

In my opinion, this is a huge advantage for Monero.

 
  
The words 'huge advantage' are a gross understatement here.  This isn't just about taxation and legal compliance.  There are entire classes of necessary applications that cannot exist without a viewkey.  
  
For example, let's say you and I use Monero tokens to enable a digital contract that only we know about.  First of all, this is an unpondered Monero killer-app: irreversible private contracts that two entities can make without the need for anyone else to ever know.  
  
But it's the view key that makes this possible, because without that we would need to give someone access to the edit the underlying contract to prove it exists.  This is a huge nail in the coffin for Zerocash.  
  
Will it eventually exist and be useful for some things?  Yes.  But Monero will still be superior.

That's kind of a poor example, because they kind of did that 2 days ago already:

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/02/26/zero-knowledge-contingent-payments-announcement/

A better example would be Company A that has to hand over all their transactions (expenditures, income/revenue, and perhaps balances of certain accounts) to an auditing firm (or the IRS) for a certain fiscal year.

Note: I know the viewkey only shows incoming transactions, but it is possible to show outgoing transactions (and thus balance) as well. In other words, the protocol allows this. It's a bit more different than we initially thought to the extent that it's not simply "give them a key and tell them to scan".

[americanpegasus]

That's kind of a poor example, because they kind of did that 2 days ago already:

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/02/26/zero-knowledge-contingent-payments-announcement/

A better example would be Company A that has to hand over all their transactions (expenditures, income/revenue, and perhaps balances of certain accounts) to an auditing firm (or the IRS) for a certain fiscal year.

Note: I know the viewkey only shows incoming transactions, but it is possible to show outgoing transactions (and thus balance) as well. In other words, the protocol allows this. It's a bit more different than we initially thought to the extent that it's not simply "give them a key and tell them to scan".

 
  
My understanding was that this allowed someone to buy information with Bitcoin without trusting someone else, but how could it be used to enable private contracts?  What other unique structures and apps can we imagine that are only enabled via a viewkey (so that zerocoin cannot host such things).  Let's think outside of legal compliance.

[dEBRUYNE]

MAAM #5: "Monero Ask Anything Monday"!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4877ew/maam_5_monero_ask_anything_monday/

[TechorMarketing]

MAAM #5: "Monero Ask Anything Monday"!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4877ew/maam_5_monero_ask_anything_monday/

MAAM makes Monday my favorite day of the Monero week! The participation levels seem to keep rising.

[Hueristic]

MAAM #5: "Monero Ask Anything Monday"!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/4877ew/maam_5_monero_ask_anything_monday/

MAAM makes Monday my favorite day of the Monero week! The participation levels seem to keep rising.

That's because the deeper you dig into it the better it gets. Nothing hidden and the best team imaginable with the best goal.

[dEBRUYNE]

:-)

https://mobile.twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/704113681219624960

[generalizethis]

:-)

https://mobile.twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/704113681219624960

How much did Fluffy have to drink?

[BTKC]

:-)

https://mobile.twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/704113681219624960

How much did Fluffy have to drink?

Prob a lot but i would too. Overall, i love monero for what it tries to be & for what btc failed to be, digital cash. After btc its the best digital asset ive ever come across. long live XMR & BTC

[TrueCryptonaire]

The down moves are very sticky. Looks like Monero wants to rise like a cork.

 
 
From one trader to another, it is not easy.  You cannot rely on anything anyone says.  What you *can* do is send your 'troops' (coins) into battle either long or short.  This is the market equivalent of uncovering the 'fog of war' and calling someone's bluff in poker.  The resistance you encounter on either side will tell you the truth of the matter.  Unfortunately, this information is not without cost, as you will have to cover or buy back in soon after your gambit. 
 
I will share this with you: in the past weeks I have dumped a little as a test, just to see how fragile our upward movement is.  After all, if you are trying to acquire, you don't want to make a big fuss about it and drive up the price - right?  I can confirm there is strong acquisition going on independent of any other market indicators and hype. 
 
Of course don't take this as trading advice; just my personal observations.
 

I corrected the issue. I said yesterday it will go down. It didn't significiantly (I was expecting some heavy dumping). Therefore I bidded it back to 0.002, and it costed only like 1.5 btc or so.
Obviously it is possible it will go down from here, but the longer it takes the less possible it will be. It looks to me that the lowering emission is doing good job for Monero as there are only approximately 10 000 XMR issued on daily basis.
I am expecting the days when Monero will be traded at same volumes as Etherium. Those days will probably bring Monero to heights of the Moon or even Pluto to its own orbit. The reason is there are not that many coins around in shaky hands of day traders.

[XMRpromotions]

Have a great week everyone. Every day that passes Monero gets stronger. Together we have the chance to build a financial privacy hub that can help people worldwide.

[primer-]

https://mobile.twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/704113681219624960

What a loser..

[DaveyJones]

https://mobile.twitter.com/fluffyponyza/status/704113681219624960

What a loser..

show a picture of your face so we can judge you too ... internet hero ... ridicolous

[bclcjunkie]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-26/why-hedge-fund-manager-who-made-killing-subprime-buying-bitcoin

the guy has a pretty good foresight and probably unaware of privacy centric crypto like monero. so this article paints one of the most bullish and potentially probable case scenarios in favor of monero... i say that because china is going to come hard on money changers and all other traditional ways of money laundering techniques to stop capital flight including probably outlawing metals and even tracing bitcoin blockchain. so i'd say accumulate as much as you can because with steadily maturing code base, unbeatable privacy, speedy wallet and user friendly gui i think we should be ready when this baby truly takes off...

... while China is doing everything in its power to not give the impression that it is panicking, the truth is that it is one viral capital outflow report away from an outright scramble to enforce the most draconian capital controls in its history, which - as every Cypriot and Greek knows by now - is a self-defeating exercise and assures an ever accelerating decline in the currency, which authorities are trying to both keep stable while also devaluing at a pace of their choosing. Said pace never quite works out.
 
So what happens then: well, China's propensity for gold is well-known. We would not be surprised to see a surge of gold imports into China, only instead of going to the traditional Commodity Financing Deals we have written extensively about before, where gold is merely a commodity used to fund domestic carry trades, it ends up in domestic households. However, while gold has historically been the best store of value in history and has outlasted every currency known to man, it is problematic when it comes to transferring funds in and out of a nation - it tends to show up quite distinctly on X-rays.
 
Which is why we would not be surprised to see another push higher in the value of bitcoin: it was earlier this summer when the digital currency, which can bypass capital controls and national borders with the click of a button, surged on Grexit concerns and fears a Drachma return would crush the savings of an entire nation. Since then, BTC has dropped (in no small part as a result of the previously documented "forking" with Bitcoin XT), however if a few hundred million Chinese decide that the time has come to use bitcoin as the capital controls bypassing currency of choice, and decide to invest even a tiny fraction of the $22 trillion in Chinese deposits in bitcoin (whose total market cap at last check was just over $3 billion), sit back and watch as we witness the second coming of the bitcoin bubble, one which could make the previous all time highs in the digital currency, seems like a low print.
 
Yes, bitcoin may be slowly but surely leaving the domain of the libertarian fringe, but in exchange it is about to be embraced as the most lucrative and commercial "blockchained" way to capitalize on what may soon become the largest capital outflow in history...

[wpalczynski]

Check out Local Bitcoin activity in China.  Its  through the roof.

https://coin.dance/charts

[TrueCryptonaire]

If some entity/entities decide to invest 1 billion usd into XMR, and let's assume only 10 % of Moneros are possible to get at any money (most will be held in cold storages as nobody is selling in need of money but for the urgency to help the Moneroless society around). Then, 1 000 000 000 usd / 1 844 500 xmr = 542 usd/xmr.
I think 10 % availability rate is pretty realistic as there are some selling taking place when the price rises. At current prices only a fraction is traded, and even the same coin is probably traded several times within a day back and forth.

[aminorex]

What other unique structures and apps can we imagine that are only enabled via a viewkey

Any function which depends on knowledge of transactions but not on control of transactions.  Usually this involves providing privileged information to an independent party, and such cases can always be deemed a form of compliance verification, but the verifying party need not be a governmental regulator.  

If I give money to a minor child, I would like to provide accountability, but may prefer to delegate authority.  (Certainly I wish to protect the privacy of the child from bad actors.)  

In some custodial accounts, a similar delegation structure may be required by law.  The viewkey would improve this by adding verification of the performance of the custodian.

If I delegate authority to an employee or contractor, I can't expense the full amount if I retain control of the funds.  A viewkey system allows me to verify performance but expense early.  

I suppose that a viewkey could be used in a single-authority escrow arrangement. Client and vendor can verify the presence of the funds but only the agent has the ability to transmit.  2-of-3 signature systems are preferred however.

Lines of credit are typically conditional on the performance and capability of the debtor.  Given your viewkey, I can measure your ability to support debt service. An operating concern might provide a viewkey to a trusted auditor or credit reporting agency, e.g. in order to gain a certification of creditworthiness without public exposure of accounts.

Economic/sociological studies might be enabled by volunteers providing their viewkeys to researchers.

Quota limits for shared funds.  The pooled funds are partitioned out to individual wallets, and collective accountability maintained by the use of viewkeys shared with all members of the group.  Adding multisig would enable pullback of funds in cases of defection.

All of which are just minor variations on the obvious.  I am sure that there are actual clever innovations waiting for discovery.

[aminorex]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-26/why-hedge-fund-manager-who-made-killing-subprime-buying-bitcoin

the guy has a pretty good foresight and probably unaware of privacy centric crypto like monero. so this article paints one of the most bullish and potentially probable case scenarios in favor of monero... i say that because china is going to come hard on money changers and all other traditional ways of money laundering techniques to stop capital flight including probably outlawing metals and even tracing bitcoin blockchain. so i'd say accumulate as much as you can because with steadily maturing code base, unbeatable privacy, speedy wallet and user friendly gui i think we should be ready when this baby truly takes off...

+1e9, this.