[XMR] Monero Speculation

[c789]

I should know this by now, but I don't. How does one interpret the Poloniex "Market Depth" chart? Here's a pic of the current chart: http://imgur.com/a/9wdSU

• Going from the center to the left, the green ramps up and then becomes a vertical line. What does the the green vertical line signify?
• Where the green and red converge, that's the current price, right?
• Any other insights?

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[jwinterm]

I should know this by now, but I don't. How does one interpret the Poloniex "Market Depth" chart? Here's a pic of the current chart: http://imgur.com/a/9wdSU

• Going from the center to the left, the green ramps up and then becomes a vertical line. What does the the green vertical line signify?
• Where the green and red converge, that's the current price, right?
• Any other insights?

The green line is the sum of all buy orders in BTC, so when you see a big vertical step that is a very large order known as a buy wall. Red line is same but is the sum of all sell orders.

Other insights: people can put bids and sells up then pull them anytime, so it's not really a great indicator except to show how much liquidity there is close to the current price.

[KeyJockey]

Well if you are looking for an opportunity to get rich, I think Monero has decent odds for that...

The way I've decided to look at it is like this:  IF a bitcoin some day will be worth $1,000,000 each, then someone would need to amass at least 1,000 of them NOW to have a shot at becoming a billionaire.  The day has long passed for me to have had a shot at that from bitcoin (and I missed out on it but -- knowing my past -- I really *should* have been aware of BTC from the very earliest days! And, believe me, not a day goes by now, that I don't kick myself for that LOL)

However, if MONERO some day could be worth $1,000,000 each?  There's still a decent chance for a normal person like me to scrape together 1,000 of 'em.  I'm not there yet, but trying!  And it's still in the realm of possibility...

Also, I've never seen this noted elsewhere yet but since bitcoin's protocol only allows for 1 BTC to be divided to 8 decimal places, doesn't that kind of by design LIMIT one BTC to a maximum current equivalent $1,000,000 "purchasing power" currency value?  In other words, to retain the usual currency denomination of "dollars and cents" i.e. maximum division into 'hundredths'... one satoshi as a penny means 100 million 'em (i.e. 1.0 BTC) to make a maximum of $1 million.

But, Monero is divisible to TWELVE decimal places, right?  So with no further change to the current software, in theory ONE XMR could be able to support a current purchasing power valuation of 10 Billion dollars...?  (Am I getting that right re: decimal places, etc? 0.000000000001 as "one cent" means 0.000000000100 would be "a dollar"... and so 1.0 = Ten Billion )

As we've seen with the huge problem getting the block size variable changed in bitcoin's code... if it becomes necessary to further divide BTC beyond the eighth decimal place some day, I think it may very well collapse before that could be accomplished.  So in that case something like Monero would be ready and waiting to take over what's needed as-is, without any code change.

So just imagine: you may be a billionaire in the future just because you were smart (or lucky) enough to buy and HODL just a one-tenth, 0.10 XMR today!

[bobabouey2]

The bolded sure didn't stop vinyl, As a matter of fact They are still made today right?

And as to the market being limited to Videophiles, that was a direct result of the rest being priced out. Tell me how many VHS collectors there were and if they were priced competitively which do you think the majority would prefer? And of course better tech was found and adopted, THAT happens to every Tech there is. And yes once again Sony cost themselves with copywrite just like the Betamax. But as a simple recorded media storage device Laserdisc was leaps and bounds beyond any magnet tape consumer system, that just cannot be argued.

Oh yeah and yes it is a nice rally, just got a little more yesterday at 0.01236290   

Vinyl is a niche / hipster resurgence.  The recent resurgence doesn't even begin to compare with the growth of VHS / CD / DVD in their prime.  All three were among the fastest / largest consumer appliance adoptions in history.  And vinyl players are much simpler / smaller than laserdisc players.  And urning over a vinyl while smoking pot and drinking craft beer is less disruptive than having to do that while watching Jaws.

Pricing doesn't happen in a vacuum.  If more people perceived Laserdisc as superior to VHS, there would have been more first adopters, and then second adopters, and then the Laserdisc manufacturers would have more economies of scale and capital to invest in R&D to develop cheaper players.  Original video cassette players were also very expensive, but as people started to see the paradigm shift / mass consumer appeal, more competitors entered the market, more capital invested in factories, economies of scale, etc.

Quality in terms of mass consumer adoption is a subjective matter.  While Laserdisc may have had better image / sound quality, it turns out the qualities that were more compelling were: multi-function (time-shifting TV, ability to play recorded home videos with also originally expensive VHS cameras); lower cost of production (niche videos and PORN!); and relative durability. Cost followed these attributes.

When music companies were getting killed by the ipod and other digital offerings, they also tried the "quality" argument.  They tried to point out that CDs were better quality than most digital offerings, and there was a brief attempt at "HD Audio."  But it turned out, the quality that mattered this time was cheapness and ubiquitous access.  The FLAC guys remained a niche.

PS - Re. the Sony patent I cited, that one didn't hurt them.  Together with Philips and other players, they created a patent licensing consortium where they bundled all the patents that were "essential" for CD production into a single offering that was available to any party who wanted to make CDs for a fixed cost, part of the "red book" standard.  So there is also a legal / cooperative aspect to why CDs and then DVDs became the global standard.

PPS - Seriously, don't dismiss the impact of porn.  The high capital costs to manufacture laserdiscs meant manufacturing was centralized among large companies.  Those companies didn't want to make dirty filthy porn movies.  But the ease of duplicating VHS cassettes meant smaller companies could easily enter the VHS porn market.  Porn is to media as drugs / illegal activities are to crypto.  Aha - I managed to turn the conversation back to Monero!

[Hueristic]

Vinyl is a niche / hipster resurgence.  The recent resurgence doesn't even begin to compare with the growth of VHS / CD / DVD in their prime.  All three were among the fastest / largest consumer appliance adoptions in history.  And vinyl players are much simpler / smaller than laserdisc players.  And urning over a vinyl while smoking pot and drinking craft beer is less disruptive than having to do that while watching Jaws.

Pricing doesn't happen in a vacuum.  If more people perceived Laserdisc as superior to VHS, there would have been more first adopters, and then second adopters, and then the Laserdisc manufacturers would have more economies of scale and capital to invest in R&D to develop cheaper players.  Original video cassette players were also very expensive, but as people started to see the paradigm shift / mass consumer appeal, more competitors entered the market, more capital invested in factories, economies of scale, etc.

Actually it does if you are the only copywrite holder, the barrier to entry was insanely high. I think I was making minimum wage of $2.80 then. Where could I get $850 for one movie? If they had taken a hit on the production and not tried to recoup all the R&D right off the bat they would have taken the vhs movie market. The quality was that far superior. Do you even remember watching one for the first time or were you not even there?

Quality in terms of mass consumer adoption is a subjective matter.  While Laserdisc may have had better image / sound quality, it turns out the qualities that were more compelling were: multi-function (time-shifting TV, ability to play recorded home videos with also originally expensive VHS cameras); lower cost of production (niche videos and PORN!); and relative durability. Cost followed these attributes.

None of this is true and VHS cameras were huge and too expensive for most.

When music companies were getting killed by the ipod and other digital offerings, they also tried the "quality" argument.  They tried to point out that CDs were better quality than most digital offerings, and there was a brief attempt at "HD Audio."  But it turned out, the quality that mattered this time was cheapness and ubiquitous access.  The FLAC guys remained a niche.

Thanks for the apples vs oranges argument.

PS - Re. the Sony patent I cited, that one didn't hurt them.  Together with Philips and other players, they created a patent licensing consortium where they bundled all the patents that were "essential" for CD production into a single offering that was available to any party who wanted to make CDs for a fixed cost, part of the "red book" standard.  So there is also a legal / cooperative aspect to why CDs and then DVDs became the global standard.

Of course it hurt them, are you really arguing that because they managed to get money in the future from patents is akin to owning the entire movie market of the time?

PPS - Seriously, don't dismiss the impact of porn.  The high capital costs to manufacture laserdiscs meant manufacturing was centralized among large companies.  Those companies didn't want to make dirty filthy porn movies.  But the ease of duplicating VHS cassettes meant smaller companies could easily enter the VHS porn market.  Porn is to media as drugs / illegal activities are to crypto.  Aha - I managed to turn the conversation back to Monero!

I did not dismiss it, I never addressed it as it is not relevant. Porn will be released on whatever media the masses are using.

I'm getting sick of this argument, my time is worth more to me than this is worth. If you don't agree with my veiws then that is fine. Just know you have not and cannot change mine on this subject.

BTW OS2 was far superior to windows and lost do to IBM overpricing at launch as well.

[bobabouey2]

If you don't agree with my veiws then that is fine. Just know you have not and cannot change mine on this subject.

If your views "cannot change", then I agree this conversation is not worth pursuing.  And that is fine.  Good night.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

BTW OS2 was far superior to windows and lost do to IBM overpricing at launch as well.

Again, those are products (based on similar tech). Everyone agrees that an inferior product with better marketing can be more commercially successful.

I think bobabouey2's point is that affordable pricing follows adoption. Early LCD panels are a good example.

But let's not pointlessly argue.

[GingerAle]

BTW OS2 was far superior to windows and lost do to IBM overpricing at launch as well.

Again, those are products (based on similar tech). Everyone agrees that an inferior product with better marketing can be more commercially successful.

I think bobabouey2's point is that affordable pricing follows adoption. Early LCD panels are a good example.

But let's not pointlessly argue.

No, instead, let pointfully recognize how friggin awesome Monero is.

I mean I still don't get peoples hurdle to it. Then again, I talk to people that don't get Bitcoin, so its not that far of  stretch to imagine that monero is impossible to understand.

I mean, how did the Internet become popular? Its a set of protocols, and the protocols provide information. People apparently love information. Can;t get enough of it.

Cryptocurrencies are different though. Its a similar breakthrough in protocol and ability - but much like the original software was possibly never imagined to do the things its doing now, wtf will monero be doing?

[iCEBREAKER]

Agree with TC here.

Why not save 2/3 of your extra money in silver and Bitcoin, while gambling the other 1/3 in Monero?

This provides a silver liquidity cushion for emergencies, so you don't have to sell any crypto (which is more of a PITA).   

[kurious]

February breakout...?

XMR looking feisty again 

[CryptoPH]

XMR/BTC is back on track!  

[kurious]

We just popped over Litecoin's market cap into no. 4 position...

[Johnny Mnemonic]

But let's not pointlessly argue.

No, instead, let pointfully recognize how friggin awesome Monero is.

I mean I still don't get peoples hurdle to it. Then again, I talk to people that don't get Bitcoin, so its not that far of  stretch to imagine that monero is impossible to understand.

I mean, how did the Internet become popular? Its a set of protocols, and the protocols provide information. People apparently love information. Can;t get enough of it.

Cryptocurrencies are different though. Its a similar breakthrough in protocol and ability - but much like the original software was possibly never imagined to do the things its doing now, wtf will monero be doing?

My prediction: KYC ultimately goes away. The internet is a giant meshnet like hyperboria, and web sites are hashed and served p2p (like IPFS or bitTorrent). This means all content is immutable and censorship free. All requests require a micro-payment sent to the seeder. Anyone can surf or stream for free as long as they also seed content to others for payment.

Could this be Monero's killer app? A decentralized, bitTorrent-like p2p network where leechers pay seeders to serve them content?

[starmman]

We just popped over Litecoin's market cap into no. 4 position...

Awesome news, I'm speculating/hoping that XMR will be 2nd or 3rd in respect to market cap by the end of the year.

[kurious]

We just popped over Litecoin's market cap into no. 4 position...

Awesome news, I'm speculating/hoping that XMR will be 2nd or 3rd in respect to market cap by the end of the year.

25% up from here (ish) takes us over Ripple, into 3rd.

Ethereum would take a hell of a lot more to top, an over 600% increase in price.

I will settle for a comfortable third. Second place is way down the line, only a collapse in sentiment for ETH along with a good rise in XMR would see this come to fruition.

[schnib]

Any reason for the price surge yet?

[kurious]

Two legs up, next one goes over 0.14 if the pattern repeats.

Should be inside 12 hours... Buy side needs to increase - it's still under 2K in spite of volume hike to daily 3K in volume (on Polo).

Less coins than usual in a drive up, but maybe there's more in wallets and on other exchanges now.  Supply on Polo is only just over 200K - but on exchange buy orders do not exceed this in purchasing power, which is usually the indicator of a rise coming.

Watching with interest.  Any positive news now will see a lot of green.

[bitwolf]

Any reason for the price surge yet?

It is always the same reason for every coin since the first mined bitcoin - S.P.E.C.U.L.A.T.I.O.N

[ikanunaki]

Any reason for the price surge yet?

http://blog.kraken.com/post/155126375697/kraken-launches-monero-trading

[Monerobuyer]

Kraken news was from January 2.

Is it dumb to buy more into this rally?

Who thinks this rally is taking us above 0.014?


There will come a point when Ethereum is still not functional and  sentiment will collapse. Ethereum doesn't even solve anything. I'm happy with the service Uber and air b n b and eBay provide. They don't steal my money the way the government does through inflation. When someone tries to rip me off on eBay, eBay refunds my money. Trusted third party in currency corrupts absolutely. Trusted third such as eBay, Uber etc is kept reliable/competitive by the marketplace (i.e. Lyft )....