Bitcoin Forum
March 19, 2024, 08:50:16 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 1866 1867 1868 1869 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874 1875 1876 1877 1878 1879 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 1915 [1916] 1917 1918 1919 1920 1921 1922 1923 1924 1925 1926 1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 ... 2191 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3312246 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (2 posts by 1+ user deleted.)
Febo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288



View Profile
May 29, 2018, 05:14:02 PM
 #38301

With regard to Tari, I understand the details of this project have still to be finalized and speculation on it is premature. That said, what I've read so far is that Tari is to 'built on top fo Monero' which has been taken to mean that Tari will be merged mined alongside Monero. In other words, that Tari will benefit from the security that the Monero network offers (should Monero miners decide to implement it).

Question: does Tari need permission from the Monero community to do this? If Tari wasn't being led by FP would this be an issue for the Monero community? Is there any cost to Monero from merge mining Tari? Is there any benefit to Monero from merge mining Tari?

Why, in other words, should the Monero community agree to this (assuming they have a say in the matter)? I don't have a position on it, just wondering if there are opposing perspectives on the issue.

That would be same as if Poloniex would need a permission of someone to list Monero. Or you would need someone's permission to use Monero or cake wallet would need permission of someone to make their wallet.

Those that will merge mine will I guess get tari. that will be their reason why they do it.

Benefit of monero blockchain is that monero blockchain will get more used. There will be more transactions and blocks more full and bigger and that will make transactions cheaper.   More transactions or Monero being more used will of course increase blockchain.



Good reply. But isn't there a difference between the Monero network being used (as in Tari) and Monero (the currency) being used?

Why and how. Monero transaction only works one way and is same for all. All who use it need to follow protocol. If you don't then your transaction will not be validated.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1710838216
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710838216

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710838216
Reply with quote  #2

1710838216
Report to moderator
1710838216
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710838216

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710838216
Reply with quote  #2

1710838216
Report to moderator
1710838216
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1710838216

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1710838216
Reply with quote  #2

1710838216
Report to moderator
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
May 29, 2018, 07:10:28 PM
 #38302

I can;t help but notice the same pattern we have seen for SO long in the price action for Monero...

A good flurry of buying, or even a big single purchase at market, and then a giant dump back to the floor from where we rose.

The last 24 hours on the 4 hour candle illustrates this perfectly.

smooth (OP)
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1197



View Profile
May 29, 2018, 08:27:23 PM
 #38303

In his recent report (can be found on reddit) Dr. Noether talks about the implementation of bulletproofs and how this might present a need for Monero to make changes to it's fee structure so the chain is not abused.

Which Dr. Noether? Wink

Anyway, the situation with BP is a bit different: BP are writing relatively little data, but imposing a (relatively) high cost on all nodes to verify the transactions. It is a bit like smart contracts and gas, but of course a narrower specific case.

Writing a lot of data to the chain (for example because you want to store your family photos for all time and are willing to pay a one-time fee for the privilege) is another side of the issue, and one that very few blockchains deal with all that well.

On the price speculation side, interesting moves today with cryptos in line with safe haven assets after the Italian melt down and associated Euro risk repricing. For the most part of the past couple of years cryptos have been behaving as a risk asset, not a safe haven.
DaveyJones
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 768
Merit: 505


View Profile
May 30, 2018, 06:22:34 AM
 #38304

Who are the genius who decided to fork the POW algo?

The community
Globb0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2674
Merit: 2053


Free spirit


View Profile
May 30, 2018, 10:40:52 AM
 #38305

We voted not to include you in the vote
tokeweed
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3892
Merit: 1403


Life, Love and Laughter...


View Profile
May 30, 2018, 11:04:23 AM
 #38306

Who are the genius who decided to fork the POW algo?

The community
Why I wasn't consulted?
How do you get to be a member of "the community"?
Where the vote was hosted?

It depends on how much coins your wallet holds.  If it isn't high enough, you don't get to be invited in the lodge and be taught the secret hand shake by the Grand Pony himself.

I too wasn't able to get in the lodge, but I had enough to be invited in the front yard and was taught the secret fist bump.

███████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████████
███▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀███████████
█████████████▀▀        ▀▀██████
██████▀▀▀▀▀▀              ▀████
██████████▀     ▄▄██▄▄     ▀███
██████████      ██████      ███
██████████▄     ▀▀██▀▀     ▄███
██████▄▄▄▄▄▄              ▄████
█████████████▄▄        ▄▄██████
███▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████
███████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████████
.
|
▄▄███████▄▄
▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄
▄███▀▄▄███████▄▄▀███▄
▄██▀▄█▀▀▀█████▀▀▀█▄▀██▄
▄██▄██████▀████░███▄██▄
███░████████▀██░████░███
███░████░█▄████▀░████░███
███░████░███▄████████░███
▀██▄▀███░█████▄█████▀▄██▀
▀██▄▀█▄▄▄██████▄██▀▄██▀
▀███▄▀▀███████▀▀▄███▀
▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
SSC NAPOLI
OFFICIAL EUROPEAN
BETTING PARTNER
|.ROLLBOTS.|
▄▄███████▄▄
▄███████████████▄
▄███████████████████▄
▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█████▄
▄█████████▀████████▀████▄
██████▄▄▄█████▄▄█████████
█████████████████████████
██████▀▀▀█████▀▀█████████
▀█████████▄████████▄████▀
▀██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█████▀
▀███████████████████▀
▀███████████████▀
▀▀███████▀▀
ROLLBIT COIN
TRADE RLB NOW!
|...PLAY NOW...
DaveyJones
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 768
Merit: 505


View Profile
May 30, 2018, 11:44:59 AM
Merited by BldSwtTrs (1)
 #38307

We voted not to include you in the vote
Where have you voted? Who are the people who voted? What are the criteria to be able to do so?

I am serious here. When the fixed supply have been lifted, there were a debate and a vote.

Did the same process happen regarding this very important decision? Is there any kind of documentation of this process?

The whole thing is called consensus, everyone who doesn't or didnt agree now has XMO/XMC/XM-C, and as the whole eco-system decided that the fork will get consensus ( pools, exchanges all call the Non-Asic Chain XMR )

I guess the poll was a once in a lifetime thing for monero as the community was still small and there also were no other channels like there is nowadays.

There were debates all over reddit for weeks about it ( guess its reddit because there is the biggest part of the community now )
Febo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288



View Profile
May 30, 2018, 12:33:24 PM
 #38308

Who are the genius who decided to fork the POW algo?

The community
Why I wasn't consulted?
How do you get to be a member of "the community"?
Where the vote was hosted?


There was a lot of talks about mining in last years. Github, reddit this forum. When you have ideas you should just tell them.  Github is main place for you.


So basically it's the monero devs who decided that Bitmain was evil and therefore that Monero should undergo a change of its security backbone?

Be the developer. Be active on any questions that interest you and reply with your better suggestion.  That is only way. No one will hear you if you will not say. 
garytheasshole
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 105


Chosŏn Minjujuŭi Inmin Konghwaguk


View Profile WWW
May 30, 2018, 12:35:14 PM
 #38309

We voted not to include you in the vote
Where have you voted? Who are the people who voted? What are the criteria to be able to do so?

I am serious here. When the fixed supply have been lifted, there were a debate and a vote.

Did the same process happen regarding this very important decision? Is there any kind of documentation of this process?

The whole thing is called consensus, everyone who doesn't or didnt agree now has XMO/XMC/XM-C, and as the whole eco-system decided that the fork will get consensus ( pools, exchanges all call the Non-Asic Chain XMR )

I guess the poll was a once in a lifetime thing for monero as the community was still small and there also were no other channels like there is nowadays.

There were debates all over reddit for weeks about it ( guess its reddit because there is the biggest part of the community now )
Thank you for the serious answer.

Due to inertie effect, whatever is merged in the Github repo of a protocol manage to gather consensus. So basically it's the monero devs who decided that Bitmain was evil and therefore that Monero should undergo a change of its security backbone? Who are the devs who were pro fork and the one who were against? Were there any demonstration of the dangerousness of the old POW or of the safety of a change?

Can we except other important decisions to be taken the same way in the future?

https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/blob/master/whitepaper/whitepaper_annotated.pdf

Scroll down to 2.2 The Proof-of-Work function
And yes, hopefully there will be default decisions like this in the future, it shouldn't even be up for debate if we should embrace asics or not, I see this as a patch rather than a game changer.

DaveyJones
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 768
Merit: 505


View Profile
May 30, 2018, 05:33:59 PM
 #38310

We voted not to include you in the vote
Where have you voted? Who are the people who voted? What are the criteria to be able to do so?

I am serious here. When the fixed supply have been lifted, there were a debate and a vote.

Did the same process happen regarding this very important decision? Is there any kind of documentation of this process?

The whole thing is called consensus, everyone who doesn't or didnt agree now has XMO/XMC/XM-C, and as the whole eco-system decided that the fork will get consensus ( pools, exchanges all call the Non-Asic Chain XMR )

I guess the poll was a once in a lifetime thing for monero as the community was still small and there also were no other channels like there is nowadays.

There were debates all over reddit for weeks about it ( guess its reddit because there is the biggest part of the community now )
Thank you for the serious answer.

Due to inertie effect, whatever is merged in the Github repo of a protocol manage to gather consensus. So basically it's the monero devs who decided that Bitmain was evil and therefore that Monero should undergo a change of its security backbone? Who are the devs who were pro fork and the one who were against? Were there any demonstration of the dangerousness of the old POW or of the safety of a change?

Can we except other important decisions to be taken the same way in the future?

Thats not quite how it works, devs code thats right, but there is always back and forth with the community through different channels and plenty of people talking to each other, so if you wanted you could join this discussions too, in the github issues for example.

In case of the PoW Fork it also was a whole different scenario if you read the monero whitepaper - the whitepaper states "that monero should have an egalitarian proof of work" so it's kinda the social contract that should be "obeyed". So CPU and GPU's are egalitarian as everyone who owns a computer has one, meanwhile not everyone owns ASIC's and they also have rather small batches that is far from commodisation and especially players like Bitmain showed in the past that they mine their tech first and dominate PoWs before giving it to the public...

tl;dr PoW change was an obvious/essential move as "egalitarian" is part of the social contract
Febo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288



View Profile
May 30, 2018, 08:48:52 PM
 #38311

Overall the change in mining algorithm was a really good call.  I actually remember most talks before was about bot mining.  Now is obvious why. Asic miners owners were pushing that agenda that bot miners are controlling most of  hash power. I pretty much believed them.
infofront
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2618
Merit: 2754


Shitcoin Minimalist


View Profile
May 30, 2018, 11:43:28 PM
 #38312

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.
guesswho1234
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 155
Merit: 100


View Profile
May 31, 2018, 07:01:06 AM
 #38313

anyone of you guys think we hit the bottom regarding btc value of xmr?
florida.haunted
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 241
Merit: 125


View Profile
May 31, 2018, 07:26:22 AM
 #38314

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.

"egalitarian" is a fundamental philosophical principal. Monero must be ASIC-resistant forever. I have to ask devs - whether it is possible to include timestamp dependencies directly into PoW algorithm? Or in general, could PoW entangle some bits from the outer world, that ASIC to stay impossible without regular forks (typically twice a year) to make ASIC impossible?
florida.haunted
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 241
Merit: 125


View Profile
May 31, 2018, 07:32:49 AM
 #38315

anyone of you guys think we hit the bottom regarding btc value of xmr?

If one answers why altcoins (I've checked XMR,ZEC,Dash) fall against BTC last days, while BTC itself in flat or Bart's head?

adaseb
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3696
Merit: 1698



View Profile
May 31, 2018, 07:39:10 AM
 #38316

I went long on XMR  because I think that the weekly supppet which was tested multiples times will end up holding. The suppprt is in the $150 area or so. This is basically the exact same setup as Litecoin but in the $110 range.

I believe that we will at least retest the descending wedge and I will take partial profits there and hold incase it ends up breaking when FOMO is activated and it ends up going to like $500 later in the year.

.BEST..CHANGE.███████████████
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
███████████████
..BUY/ SELL CRYPTO..
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
May 31, 2018, 12:58:18 PM
 #38317

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.

But Zooko has looked into Jihan's heart and seen the light and love!

https://forum.z.cash/t/so-i-had-a-videochat-with-jihan-wu/29379

Quote
I said that a large fraction — maybe 60% or so — of the XMR hashrate had disappeared from XMR and switched to XMO, and asked if that was Bitmain’s mining operation. He immediately replied “No, it was not us. We released the Monero miner right after the samples.”

For what it is worth, I didn’t get the feeling that he was lying about this. I felt like he was telling the truth. I asked him again if they had been doing any Monero mining with ASICs, because it really seemed like someone must have been, and he said something like that he saw the theory that there was a large-scale stealth ASIC miner, and that he hadn’t had time to look into it to tell if it was real or just a hypothesis, but that in any case it wasn’t them. Again, he sounded sincere to me.
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3738
Merit: 5127


Whimsical Pants


View Profile
May 31, 2018, 01:04:13 PM
 #38318

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.

"egalitarian" is a fundamental philosophical principal. Monero must be ASIC-resistant forever. I have to ask devs - whether it is possible to include timestamp dependencies directly into PoW algorithm? Or in general, could PoW entangle some bits from the outer world, that ASIC to stay impossible without regular forks (typically twice a year) to make ASIC impossible?


Egalitarian and ASICs are not diametrically opposed forever.  Once ASICs become commoditized like GPUs there would be much less need to defend against the centralization ASICs can currently cause.

A big player like Samsung, or others would be useful here.

Of course theat could also mean changint eh hash to something more "standard".

sergey_vass
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 10


View Profile
May 31, 2018, 01:34:44 PM
 #38319

I think monero will have a better run this year than last year and i hope my investment on it will be worthy for my money. I believe in monero because of its usage and popularity and i speculate that it will reach 500$ this year.
Globb0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2674
Merit: 2053


Free spirit


View Profile
May 31, 2018, 02:35:32 PM
 #38320

So what are people implying here?

That's ASIC owners were also the coin pumpers and manipulators?


Pages: « 1 ... 1866 1867 1868 1869 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874 1875 1876 1877 1878 1879 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 1915 [1916] 1917 1918 1919 1920 1921 1922 1923 1924 1925 1926 1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 ... 2191 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!