Bitcoin Forum
April 20, 2021, 04:58:24 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.21.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 1869 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874 1875 1876 1877 1878 1879 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918 [1919] 1920 1921 1922 1923 1924 1925 1926 1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 ... 2153 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3289400 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (2 posts by 0 user deleted.)
Hueristic
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2688
Merit: 1979


Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 12:40:01 PM
 #38361

Any way we can change the best case scenario from "stellar" to "supernova" or something else that doesn't share its name with another cryptocurrency?  I keep doubling over and laughing in the middle of reading comments!

First of all, I don't know how to qualify this post. I did some research and I've found that word used in the way you say only in 2016 and I think that you expect too much if you think that people will change their way of talking (especially such old posts) just because they make you laugh.

Second, the usual word for that is "moon". And no matter, really, since in a couple of years all the words we could use would already be taken by some - good or bad - coin. And what then, people will have to change all the posts and use no words, since they are coin names?

So.. yeah, great idea, keep it up!

It's a fucking Sig spammer.

Who are the genius who decided to fork the POW algo?

I applaud said genius (which was the community by the way) because when they forked the ASIC's to the curb the profitability went from a paltry $0.56 per kHs to the current $1.18 kH/s. Even with the depressed price it is still double the profitability.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/monero-mining_profitability.html#3m

https://bitinfocharts.com/monero
Why do you think it's a good thing when mining profitability is high?

Don't you think network security is a more important metric?

I don't think you understand that centralizing network hash with ASICs is detrimental to network security.

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
1618894704
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1618894704

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1618894704
Reply with quote  #2

1618894704
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1618894704
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1618894704

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1618894704
Reply with quote  #2

1618894704
Report to moderator
1618894704
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1618894704

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1618894704
Reply with quote  #2

1618894704
Report to moderator
1618894704
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1618894704

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1618894704
Reply with quote  #2

1618894704
Report to moderator
tokeweed
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2828
Merit: 1135


Life, Love and Laughter...


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 01:15:00 PM
 #38362

^  And whenever profitability is high, obv the miners follow anyway.  So I guess enjoy it while it lasts (not to mention Bitmain figuring out how to build ASIC's for the new mining algo all over again).

Anyway, what other CryptoNote based cryptos upgraded to CryptoNight V7?

███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█████████
████████████▀▀       ▀▀████
█████▀▀▀▀▀▀             ███
██████████    ▄█████▄    ██
██████████    ███████    ██
██████████    ▀█████▀    ██
█████▄▄▄▄▄▄             ███
████████████▄▄       ▄▄████
██▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
.
.ROLLBIT..
THE SOCIAL & PROVABLY FAIR
CRYPTO CASINO

                TWITTER     |     DISCORD               
●  Instant Deposits & Withdrawals
●  Rakeback & Level Up Bonuses
●  Live Customer Support
..PLAY NOW..
generalizethis
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1750
Merit: 1035


Facts are more efficient than fud


View Profile WWW
June 04, 2018, 02:14:07 PM
 #38363

I don't think you understand that centralizing network hash with ASICs is detrimental to network security.
I don't think you understanding anything about cryptocurrencies.

Have you heard about Bitcoin? It's the most secure crypto network, courtesy of ASICs.

It's scary that a decision so important was taken following a Reddit mob, or a secret committee of devs, with such a poor understanding of the matter.

Mining centralization hasn't made Bitcoin the most secure network, it's made it an easy target for China if they decide they want to disrupt the network--looking at hashing power in a vacuum is a pointless exercise as there are numerous factors that go into how secure a network is.

Also, the person you are addressing has forgotten more about cryptocurrencies than you know, or likely will ever know.

rinus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 361
Merit: 258


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 03:10:49 PM
 #38364

Maybe a stupid question, but did we see crypto at its best already? It went mainstream and now that everybody  heard about it, its like people have less interest in it. So could we say that it peaked already and that it’s foolish to wait and hold until we see 500 again?
Febo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2478
Merit: 1255



View Profile
June 04, 2018, 03:16:19 PM
 #38365

I don't think you understand that centralizing network hash with ASICs is detrimental to network security.
I don't think you understanding anything about cryptocurrencies.

Have you heard about Bitcoin? It's the most secure crypto network, courtesy of ASICs.

It's scary that a decision so important was taken following a Reddit mob, or a secret committee of devs, with such a poor understanding of the matter.

Mining centralization hasn't made Bitcoin the most secure network, it's made it an easy target for China if they decide they want to disrupt the network--looking at hashing power in a vacuum is a pointless exercise as there are numerous factors that go into how secure a network is.

Also, the person you are addressing has forgotten more about cryptocurrencies than you know, or likely will ever know.
I agreed, he has probably forgotten a lot more than I could.

I am happy to learn that Bitcoin isn't the most secure network because you say so. You are an invaluable source of knowledge.

Bitcoin developers would make Bitcoin ASIC resistant if they could.  But they cant since Bitcoin dont fork every half year to make needed upgrades.  Sooner or latter Monero will not be ASIC resistant anymore. Lets hope that will not be so soon and lets hope  ASIC market will mature until then.


Maybe a stupid question, but did we see crypto at its best already? It went mainstream and now that everybody  heard about it, its like people have less interest in it. So could we say that it peaked already and that it’s foolish to wait and hold until we see 500 again?

No


        ▄▄▀▀▀▄▄
     ▄▄▀▄▄███▄▄▀▄▄
  ▄▄▀▄▄█████████▄▄▀▄▄
▄▀▄▄█████ ██▄▄▄▄▀██▄▄▀▄
█ ██████ ▄ █████ ████ █
█ █████ ▄█▄ ██ ▄█████ █
█ ████ ▄███▄ ██ █████ █
█ ███ ▄█████▄ ██ ████ █
▀▄▀▀█▄███████▄██▄██▀▀▄▀
  ▀▀▄▀▀█████████▀▀▄▀▀
     ▀▀▄▀▀███▀▀▄▀▀
        ▀▀▄▄▄▀▀

       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
   ▄▄▀▀       ▀▀▄▄
  █               █ ▄
 █   █▀▄ ▀█▀ ▀█▀   █ ▀▄
 █   █▀▄  █   █    █  ▀▄
  █  ▀▀   ▀   ▀   █    █
▄▀ ▄▄           ▄▀    ▄▀
 ▀▀  ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀      ▀▄
        ▀▄▄      ▄▄▀▀▄▄▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀▀

                      ▄▄▄
  ▄█▄              ▄███████▄
  ▀████▄▄         ██████▀██████▀
    ▀▀▀████▄▄     ███████████▀
    ▀██▄███████▄▄███████████
     ▄▄▄▀██████████████████
      ▀████████████████████
▀█▄▄     ▀████████████████
  ▀████████████████▀█████
    ▀████████████▀▄▄███▀
       ▀▀██████████▀▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀

               ▄▄   ▄▄
              ▄▀ ▀▀█  █
             ▄▀     ▀▀
         ▄▄▄▄█▄
     ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄
 ▄▀▄▀              ▀▄▀▄
█  █   ▄█▄    ▄█▄   █  █
 ▀█    ▀█▀    ▀█▀    █▀
  █                  █
   █   ▀▄      ▄▀   █
    ▀▄   ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▄▀
      ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████████▄▄
 ▄██████████████████████████▄
▄████████████████████████████▄
██████████ ▀▀█████████████████
██████████     ▀▀█████████████
██████████         ▀▀█████████
██████████         ▄▄█████████
██████████     ▄▄█████████████
██████████ ▄▄█████████████████
▀████████████████████████████▀
 ▀██████████████████████████▀
   ▀▀████████████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄██▀▀             ▀▀██▄
▄██              ▄▄   ██▄
██        ▄▄▄▄▄  ▀▀    ██
██      ▄▀     ▀▄      ██
██     █         █     ██
██     █         █     ██
██      ▀▄     ▄▀      ██
██        ▀▀▀▀▀        ██
▀██                   ██▀
 ▀██▄▄             ▄▄██▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄█████████████████████▄
▄██████████████▀▀███████▄
████████████▀▀    ███████
█████████▀▀   ▄   ███████
██████▀▀     █    ███████
████▀       █     ███████
█████▄▄   ▄█      ███████
████████ ██▄      ███████
▀████████ ▀▄███▄▄███████▀
 ▀█████████████████████▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

  ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 █████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████▀    ███████
██████████  ▄██████████
██████████  ███████████
████████      ▄████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
 █████████████████████
  ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████▄▄
 ▄█████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀█████▄
▄████▀  ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀  ▀████▄
████▀                ▀████
███▀                  ▀███
███       ▄    ▄       ███
██▀      ███  ███      ▀██
██       ▀█▀  ▀█▀       ██
██▄     ▄        ▄     ▄██
▀██▄     ▀▀▄▄▄▄▀▀     ███▀
 ▀███▄▄▄▄▄▄████▄▄▄▄▄▄███▀
   ▀▀████████████████▀▀
Febo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2478
Merit: 1255



View Profile
June 04, 2018, 04:22:50 PM
Last edit: June 04, 2018, 04:41:14 PM by Febo
 #38366

I don't think you understand that centralizing network hash with ASICs is detrimental to network security.
I don't think you understanding anything about cryptocurrencies.

Have you heard about Bitcoin? It's the most secure crypto network, courtesy of ASICs.

It's scary that a decision so important was taken following a Reddit mob, or a secret committee of devs, with such a poor understanding of the matter.

Mining centralization hasn't made Bitcoin the most secure network, it's made it an easy target for China if they decide they want to disrupt the network--looking at hashing power in a vacuum is a pointless exercise as there are numerous factors that go into how secure a network is.

Also, the person you are addressing has forgotten more about cryptocurrencies than you know, or likely will ever know.
I agreed, he has probably forgotten a lot more than I could.

I am happy to learn that Bitcoin isn't the most secure network because you say so. You are an invaluable source of knowledge.

Bitcoin developers would make Bitcoin ASIC resistant if they could.  But they cant since Bitcoin dont fork every half year to make needed upgrades.  Sooner or latter Monero will not be ASIC resistant anymore. Lets hope that will not be so soon and lets hope  ASIC market will mature until then.
The fact that Bitcoin devs cannot fork Bitcoin to change a core feature on a whim is one reason why Monero will never compete against Bitcoin on the monetary use case.

The fact that the devs can change the POW on Monero is a fucking disgrace and strongly diminish its long term expected value. I look forward to see their next unilateral change of a core protocol feature.

No the fact that this is possible is because Monero had forks every 6 months and until that will go on will be possible.  Why that is possible, because Monero developers are not afraid of anyone to keep old fork alive as many other coins developers are.


BldSwtTrs if you like ASIC mined Monero you have it. It dont have few important upgrades but there it is. Support it and make it grow and donate or hire their developers to develop it further or at least copy/paste new Monero code there.   You can do it. But all this is sort of offcopic here then.   Dont say something is disgrace, just do it better and show the way with example.


        ▄▄▀▀▀▄▄
     ▄▄▀▄▄███▄▄▀▄▄
  ▄▄▀▄▄█████████▄▄▀▄▄
▄▀▄▄█████ ██▄▄▄▄▀██▄▄▀▄
█ ██████ ▄ █████ ████ █
█ █████ ▄█▄ ██ ▄█████ █
█ ████ ▄███▄ ██ █████ █
█ ███ ▄█████▄ ██ ████ █
▀▄▀▀█▄███████▄██▄██▀▀▄▀
  ▀▀▄▀▀█████████▀▀▄▀▀
     ▀▀▄▀▀███▀▀▄▀▀
        ▀▀▄▄▄▀▀

       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
   ▄▄▀▀       ▀▀▄▄
  █               █ ▄
 █   █▀▄ ▀█▀ ▀█▀   █ ▀▄
 █   █▀▄  █   █    █  ▀▄
  █  ▀▀   ▀   ▀   █    █
▄▀ ▄▄           ▄▀    ▄▀
 ▀▀  ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀      ▀▄
        ▀▄▄      ▄▄▀▀▄▄▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀▀

                      ▄▄▄
  ▄█▄              ▄███████▄
  ▀████▄▄         ██████▀██████▀
    ▀▀▀████▄▄     ███████████▀
    ▀██▄███████▄▄███████████
     ▄▄▄▀██████████████████
      ▀████████████████████
▀█▄▄     ▀████████████████
  ▀████████████████▀█████
    ▀████████████▀▄▄███▀
       ▀▀██████████▀▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀

               ▄▄   ▄▄
              ▄▀ ▀▀█  █
             ▄▀     ▀▀
         ▄▄▄▄█▄
     ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄
 ▄▀▄▀              ▀▄▀▄
█  █   ▄█▄    ▄█▄   █  █
 ▀█    ▀█▀    ▀█▀    █▀
  █                  █
   █   ▀▄      ▄▀   █
    ▀▄   ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▄▀
      ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████████▄▄
 ▄██████████████████████████▄
▄████████████████████████████▄
██████████ ▀▀█████████████████
██████████     ▀▀█████████████
██████████         ▀▀█████████
██████████         ▄▄█████████
██████████     ▄▄█████████████
██████████ ▄▄█████████████████
▀████████████████████████████▀
 ▀██████████████████████████▀
   ▀▀████████████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄██▀▀             ▀▀██▄
▄██              ▄▄   ██▄
██        ▄▄▄▄▄  ▀▀    ██
██      ▄▀     ▀▄      ██
██     █         █     ██
██     █         █     ██
██      ▀▄     ▄▀      ██
██        ▀▀▀▀▀        ██
▀██                   ██▀
 ▀██▄▄             ▄▄██▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄█████████████████████▄
▄██████████████▀▀███████▄
████████████▀▀    ███████
█████████▀▀   ▄   ███████
██████▀▀     █    ███████
████▀       █     ███████
█████▄▄   ▄█      ███████
████████ ██▄      ███████
▀████████ ▀▄███▄▄███████▀
 ▀█████████████████████▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

  ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 █████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████▀    ███████
██████████  ▄██████████
██████████  ███████████
████████      ▄████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
 █████████████████████
  ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████▄▄
 ▄█████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀█████▄
▄████▀  ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀  ▀████▄
████▀                ▀████
███▀                  ▀███
███       ▄    ▄       ███
██▀      ███  ███      ▀██
██       ▀█▀  ▀█▀       ██
██▄     ▄        ▄     ▄██
▀██▄     ▀▀▄▄▄▄▀▀     ███▀
 ▀███▄▄▄▄▄▄████▄▄▄▄▄▄███▀
   ▀▀████████████████▀▀
Globb0
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2576
Merit: 2019


Free spirit


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 06:08:43 PM
 #38367

Send me your useless Monero if you like. Now you realise how worthless it is.




.freebitcoin.       ▄▄▄█▀▀██▄▄▄
   ▄▄██████▄▄█  █▀▀█▄▄
  ███  █▀▀███████▄▄██▀
   ▀▀▀██▄▄█  ████▀▀  ▄██
▄███▄▄  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▄▄██████
██▀▀█████▄     ▄██▀█ ▀▀██
██▄▄███▀▀██   ███▀ ▄▄  ▀█
███████▄▄███ ███▄▄ ▀▀▄  █
██▀▀████████ █████  █▀▄██
 █▄▄████████ █████   ███
  ▀████  ███ ████▄▄███▀
     ▀▀████   ████▀▀
BITCOIN
DICE
EVENT
BETTING
WIN A LAMBO !

.
            ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄██████████████████████████████████▄▄▄▄
▀██████████████████████████████████████████████▄▄▄
▄▄████▄█████▄████████████████████████████▄█████▄████▄▄
▀████████▀▀▀████████████████████████████████▀▀▀██████████▄
  ▀▀▀████▄▄▄███████████████████████████████▄▄▄██████████
       ▀█████▀  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▀█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.PLAY NOW.
Shnikes101
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 255
Merit: 109


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 06:23:39 PM
 #38368

0.12.2.0 tagged for release. https://github.com/monero-project/monero/releases/tag/v0.12.2.0

The reddit fam are thinking with this release a more official announcement of ledger support will occur.
May add a little today on the pure hope that ledger support isn't fully priced in. Assuming that affects price at all.
SolarStorm
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 81
Merit: 10


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 07:49:46 PM
 #38369

Maybe a stupid question, but did we see crypto at its best already? It went mainstream and now that everybody  heard about it, its like people have less interest in it. So could we say that it peaked already and that it’s foolish to wait and hold until we see 500 again?

Crypto is by far not mainstream yet. In comparison we are in the era that the steam engine was invented, and while everyone in the village had heard about one because gossip travels fast, nobody ever had seen one let alone used one. The interest will faint away until someone actually enters the village with a steam powered engine.

The time that more than just a handful of people are going to realize that this steam powered noisy thing is more than just  a rumor and they see how useful it actually is, is still before us. I believe the 'facebook moment' of crypto will come once people can earn crypto in mobile phone games.
mymenace
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1596
Merit: 1061


Smile


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 08:14:36 PM
 #38370

So what are people implying here?

That's ASIC owners were also the coin pumpers and manipulators?




Some points:

- Hashrate was DOMINATED by "unknown" players last year and up to the HF.
- This was often attributed to botnets.
- 2 manufacturers produced CN ASICS around the time of this increase
- The moment the hashing alg was changed >60% hashrate disappeared.
- Three versions of the old chain were created (XMC, XMO, XMsomethingelse)
- Much of the displaced hashrate seemed to go to these chains.

It has been suggested that tBitmain created the ASICS, burned them in for a while (what?  6 months? lol)  And thten put them on the market.

It has been suggested that Bitmain (or some other ASIC manufacturer) created one or more of the "classic" chains to continue to be mined by ASICS.

It seems Zooko met with Jihan Wu and determined by feels that Jihan had nothing to do with the extra hashrate or the forks.

Butterfly Labs

Wonderful story, one of the first of its kind with a few others around then

Asic hardware and hardware mining companies need full transparency to determine legitmacy, unlike what you would expect in the gold market

Explains how it all works.
https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/23/6833047/bitcoin-conspiracy-theorists-vindicated-as-ftc-shuts-down-butterfly-labs



How to play the market

just play the scam (in other words all markets have a collective that can dump at any time - fiat, stocks, gold, crypto)
follow the whales, buy the dip

its a buy the dip scheme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0akBdQa55b4


Grin
ozkraut
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 522
Merit: 266


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 10:01:09 PM
 #38371

I don't think you understand that centralizing network hash with ASICs is detrimental to network security.
I don't think you understanding anything about cryptocurrencies.

Have you heard about Bitcoin? It's the most secure crypto network, courtesy of ASICs.

It's scary that a decision so important was taken following a Reddit mob, or a secret committee of devs, with such a poor understanding of the matter.

Mining centralization hasn't made Bitcoin the most secure network, it's made it an easy target for China if they decide they want to disrupt the network--looking at hashing power in a vacuum is a pointless exercise as there are numerous factors that go into how secure a network is.

Also, the person you are addressing has forgotten more about cryptocurrencies than you know, or likely will ever know.
I agreed, he has probably forgotten a lot more than I could.

I am happy to learn that Bitcoin isn't the most secure network because you say so. You are an invaluable source of knowledge.

Bitcoin developers would make Bitcoin ASIC resistant if they could.  But they cant since Bitcoin dont fork every half year to make needed upgrades.  Sooner or latter Monero will not be ASIC resistant anymore. Lets hope that will not be so soon and lets hope  ASIC market will mature until then.
The fact that Bitcoin devs cannot fork Bitcoin to change a core feature on a whim is one reason why Monero will never compete against Bitcoin on the monetary use case.

The fact that the devs can change the POW on Monero is a fucking disgrace and strongly diminish its long term expected value. I look forward to see their next unilateral change of a core protocol feature.

Did you buy one by any chance? Seem a bit sore there. Hueristic's comments are spot on. Its not just about hash. Its about distributed hash. So the overall hash needs to be weighted by the participants in the network. Look what the 51%ers have done to a number of coins lately. Being dynamic on your algo moves from the MAD doctrine to the SAD one. These being 'mutually assured destruction' to 'singularly assured destruction'.  ASICS would be fine if they were a commodity and all miners would easily have access. Maybe one day but until then....

Monero - Wir sind die Leute vor denen uns unsere Eltern gewarnt haben!
airdrophunter
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 100


The Exchange for EOS Community


View Profile
June 04, 2018, 11:13:56 PM
 #38372

Since i joined in this forum, it was only then that i know about some of alternate coins that is flying in colors and Monero is one of them. It almost reached 500$ mark before it went down. I speculate that when bitcoin will have an ATH this year, Monero will also have a new price high too.

|   EOS Exchange   |▌       The Exchange for the EOS Community!       |   EOSex   |
                          ICO: 15th October to 20th November  |  Free EXP Tokens: Join Bounty!                          
Whitepaper                 ANN Thread                 Telegram                 Twitter                 Mobile
Febo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2478
Merit: 1255



View Profile
June 05, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
Merited by Globb0 (2)
 #38373

Since i joined in this forum, it was only then that i know about some of alternate coins that is flying in colors and Monero is one of them. It almost reached 500$ mark before it went down. I speculate that when bitcoin will have an ATH this year, Monero will also have a new price high too.

Only if we will have new BTC ATH this year Smiley


It seems we are finally at Ledger support. Lithium Luna 0.12.2 for CLI is finally here: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/releases/tag/v0.12.2.0   I am not sure, but I guess we will soon see some Ledger announcements now, or maybe I have no ideas  Roll Eyes



        ▄▄▀▀▀▄▄
     ▄▄▀▄▄███▄▄▀▄▄
  ▄▄▀▄▄█████████▄▄▀▄▄
▄▀▄▄█████ ██▄▄▄▄▀██▄▄▀▄
█ ██████ ▄ █████ ████ █
█ █████ ▄█▄ ██ ▄█████ █
█ ████ ▄███▄ ██ █████ █
█ ███ ▄█████▄ ██ ████ █
▀▄▀▀█▄███████▄██▄██▀▀▄▀
  ▀▀▄▀▀█████████▀▀▄▀▀
     ▀▀▄▀▀███▀▀▄▀▀
        ▀▀▄▄▄▀▀

       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
   ▄▄▀▀       ▀▀▄▄
  █               █ ▄
 █   █▀▄ ▀█▀ ▀█▀   █ ▀▄
 █   █▀▄  █   █    █  ▀▄
  █  ▀▀   ▀   ▀   █    █
▄▀ ▄▄           ▄▀    ▄▀
 ▀▀  ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀      ▀▄
        ▀▄▄      ▄▄▀▀▄▄▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀▀

                      ▄▄▄
  ▄█▄              ▄███████▄
  ▀████▄▄         ██████▀██████▀
    ▀▀▀████▄▄     ███████████▀
    ▀██▄███████▄▄███████████
     ▄▄▄▀██████████████████
      ▀████████████████████
▀█▄▄     ▀████████████████
  ▀████████████████▀█████
    ▀████████████▀▄▄███▀
       ▀▀██████████▀▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀

               ▄▄   ▄▄
              ▄▀ ▀▀█  █
             ▄▀     ▀▀
         ▄▄▄▄█▄
     ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄
 ▄▀▄▀              ▀▄▀▄
█  █   ▄█▄    ▄█▄   █  █
 ▀█    ▀█▀    ▀█▀    █▀
  █                  █
   █   ▀▄      ▄▀   █
    ▀▄   ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▄▀
      ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████████▄▄
 ▄██████████████████████████▄
▄████████████████████████████▄
██████████ ▀▀█████████████████
██████████     ▀▀█████████████
██████████         ▀▀█████████
██████████         ▄▄█████████
██████████     ▄▄█████████████
██████████ ▄▄█████████████████
▀████████████████████████████▀
 ▀██████████████████████████▀
   ▀▀████████████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄██▀▀             ▀▀██▄
▄██              ▄▄   ██▄
██        ▄▄▄▄▄  ▀▀    ██
██      ▄▀     ▀▄      ██
██     █         █     ██
██     █         █     ██
██      ▀▄     ▄▀      ██
██        ▀▀▀▀▀        ██
▀██                   ██▀
 ▀██▄▄             ▄▄██▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄█████████████████████▄
▄██████████████▀▀███████▄
████████████▀▀    ███████
█████████▀▀   ▄   ███████
██████▀▀     █    ███████
████▀       █     ███████
█████▄▄   ▄█      ███████
████████ ██▄      ███████
▀████████ ▀▄███▄▄███████▀
 ▀█████████████████████▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

  ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 █████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████▀    ███████
██████████  ▄██████████
██████████  ███████████
████████      ▄████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
 █████████████████████
  ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████▄▄
 ▄█████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀█████▄
▄████▀  ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀  ▀████▄
████▀                ▀████
███▀                  ▀███
███       ▄    ▄       ███
██▀      ███  ███      ▀██
██       ▀█▀  ▀█▀       ██
██▄     ▄        ▄     ▄██
▀██▄     ▀▀▄▄▄▄▀▀     ███▀
 ▀███▄▄▄▄▄▄████▄▄▄▄▄▄███▀
   ▀▀████████████████▀▀
CryptoPH
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 161
Merit: 100

<3 Crypto


View Profile
June 05, 2018, 08:24:28 AM
 #38374

I don't think you understand that centralizing network hash with ASICs is detrimental to network security.
I don't think you understanding anything about cryptocurrencies.

Have you heard about Bitcoin? It's the most secure crypto network, courtesy of ASICs.

It's scary that a decision so important was taken following a Reddit mob, or a secret committee of devs, with such a poor understanding of the matter.

Mining centralization hasn't made Bitcoin the most secure network, it's made it an easy target for China if they decide they want to disrupt the network--looking at hashing power in a vacuum is a pointless exercise as there are numerous factors that go into how secure a network is.

Also, the person you are addressing has forgotten more about cryptocurrencies than you know, or likely will ever know.
I agreed, he has probably forgotten a lot more than I could.

I am happy to learn that Bitcoin isn't the most secure network because you say so. You are an invaluable source of knowledge.

Bitcoin developers would make Bitcoin ASIC resistant if they could.  But they cant since Bitcoin dont fork every half year to make needed upgrades.  Sooner or latter Monero will not be ASIC resistant anymore. Lets hope that will not be so soon and lets hope  ASIC market will mature until then.
The fact that Bitcoin devs cannot fork Bitcoin to change a core feature on a whim is one reason why Monero will never compete against Bitcoin on the monetary use case.

The fact that the devs can change the POW on Monero is a fucking disgrace and strongly diminish its long term expected value. I look forward to see their next unilateral change of a core protocol feature.

No the fact that this is possible is because Monero had forks every 6 months and until that will go on will be possible.  Why that is possible, because Monero developers are not afraid of anyone to keep old fork alive as many other coins developers are.


BldSwtTrs if you like ASIC mined Monero you have it. It dont have few important upgrades but there it is. Support it and make it grow and donate or hire their developers to develop it further or at least copy/paste new Monero code there.   You can do it. But all this is sort of offcopic here then.   Dont say something is disgrace, just do it better and show the way with example.


BitcoinCash was created with disagreement on core features...
Shall I look forward on MoneroCash? Cool

CryptoPH
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 161
Merit: 100

<3 Crypto


View Profile
June 05, 2018, 08:26:09 AM
 #38375

Since i joined in this forum, it was only then that i know about some of alternate coins that is flying in colors and Monero is one of them. It almost reached 500$ mark before it went down. I speculate that when bitcoin will have an ATH this year, Monero will also have a new price high too.

Crossing $500 mark will aim at new ATH, up to psychological resistance of $1000, I guess.  Cool

Febo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2478
Merit: 1255



View Profile
June 05, 2018, 10:27:36 AM
 #38376

I don't think you understand that centralizing network hash with ASICs is detrimental to network security.
I don't think you understanding anything about cryptocurrencies.

Have you heard about Bitcoin? It's the most secure crypto network, courtesy of ASICs.

It's scary that a decision so important was taken following a Reddit mob, or a secret committee of devs, with such a poor understanding of the matter.

Mining centralization hasn't made Bitcoin the most secure network, it's made it an easy target for China if they decide they want to disrupt the network--looking at hashing power in a vacuum is a pointless exercise as there are numerous factors that go into how secure a network is.

Also, the person you are addressing has forgotten more about cryptocurrencies than you know, or likely will ever know.
I agreed, he has probably forgotten a lot more than I could.

I am happy to learn that Bitcoin isn't the most secure network because you say so. You are an invaluable source of knowledge.

Bitcoin developers would make Bitcoin ASIC resistant if they could.  But they cant since Bitcoin dont fork every half year to make needed upgrades.  Sooner or latter Monero will not be ASIC resistant anymore. Lets hope that will not be so soon and lets hope  ASIC market will mature until then.
The fact that Bitcoin devs cannot fork Bitcoin to change a core feature on a whim is one reason why Monero will never compete against Bitcoin on the monetary use case.

The fact that the devs can change the POW on Monero is a fucking disgrace and strongly diminish its long term expected value. I look forward to see their next unilateral change of a core protocol feature.

No the fact that this is possible is because Monero had forks every 6 months and until that will go on will be possible.  Why that is possible, because Monero developers are not afraid of anyone to keep old fork alive as many other coins developers are.


BldSwtTrs if you like ASIC mined Monero you have it. It dont have few important upgrades but there it is. Support it and make it grow and donate or hire their developers to develop it further or at least copy/paste new Monero code there.   You can do it. But all this is sort of offcopic here then.   Dont say something is disgrace, just do it better and show the way with example.


BitcoinCash was created with disagreement on core features...
Shall I look forward on MoneroCash? Cool

Yes it was, but was not a fork by the core developers like Monero fork twice a year. They will not do it as ETH would not do it or ZCash.


        ▄▄▀▀▀▄▄
     ▄▄▀▄▄███▄▄▀▄▄
  ▄▄▀▄▄█████████▄▄▀▄▄
▄▀▄▄█████ ██▄▄▄▄▀██▄▄▀▄
█ ██████ ▄ █████ ████ █
█ █████ ▄█▄ ██ ▄█████ █
█ ████ ▄███▄ ██ █████ █
█ ███ ▄█████▄ ██ ████ █
▀▄▀▀█▄███████▄██▄██▀▀▄▀
  ▀▀▄▀▀█████████▀▀▄▀▀
     ▀▀▄▀▀███▀▀▄▀▀
        ▀▀▄▄▄▀▀

       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
   ▄▄▀▀       ▀▀▄▄
  █               █ ▄
 █   █▀▄ ▀█▀ ▀█▀   █ ▀▄
 █   █▀▄  █   █    █  ▀▄
  █  ▀▀   ▀   ▀   █    █
▄▀ ▄▄           ▄▀    ▄▀
 ▀▀  ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀      ▀▄
        ▀▄▄      ▄▄▀▀▄▄▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀▀

                      ▄▄▄
  ▄█▄              ▄███████▄
  ▀████▄▄         ██████▀██████▀
    ▀▀▀████▄▄     ███████████▀
    ▀██▄███████▄▄███████████
     ▄▄▄▀██████████████████
      ▀████████████████████
▀█▄▄     ▀████████████████
  ▀████████████████▀█████
    ▀████████████▀▄▄███▀
       ▀▀██████████▀▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀

               ▄▄   ▄▄
              ▄▀ ▀▀█  █
             ▄▀     ▀▀
         ▄▄▄▄█▄
     ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄
 ▄▀▄▀              ▀▄▀▄
█  █   ▄█▄    ▄█▄   █  █
 ▀█    ▀█▀    ▀█▀    █▀
  █                  █
   █   ▀▄      ▄▀   █
    ▀▄   ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▄▀
      ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████████▄▄
 ▄██████████████████████████▄
▄████████████████████████████▄
██████████ ▀▀█████████████████
██████████     ▀▀█████████████
██████████         ▀▀█████████
██████████         ▄▄█████████
██████████     ▄▄█████████████
██████████ ▄▄█████████████████
▀████████████████████████████▀
 ▀██████████████████████████▀
   ▀▀████████████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄██▀▀             ▀▀██▄
▄██              ▄▄   ██▄
██        ▄▄▄▄▄  ▀▀    ██
██      ▄▀     ▀▄      ██
██     █         █     ██
██     █         █     ██
██      ▀▄     ▄▀      ██
██        ▀▀▀▀▀        ██
▀██                   ██▀
 ▀██▄▄             ▄▄██▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄█████████████████████▄
▄██████████████▀▀███████▄
████████████▀▀    ███████
█████████▀▀   ▄   ███████
██████▀▀     █    ███████
████▀       █     ███████
█████▄▄   ▄█      ███████
████████ ██▄      ███████
▀████████ ▀▄███▄▄███████▀
 ▀█████████████████████▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

  ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 █████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████▀    ███████
██████████  ▄██████████
██████████  ███████████
████████      ▄████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
 █████████████████████
  ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████▄▄
 ▄█████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀█████▄
▄████▀  ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀  ▀████▄
████▀                ▀████
███▀                  ▀███
███       ▄    ▄       ███
██▀      ███  ███      ▀██
██       ▀█▀  ▀█▀       ██
██▄     ▄        ▄     ▄██
▀██▄     ▀▀▄▄▄▄▀▀     ███▀
 ▀███▄▄▄▄▄▄████▄▄▄▄▄▄███▀
   ▀▀████████████████▀▀
Hueristic
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2688
Merit: 1979


Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it


View Profile
June 05, 2018, 12:46:25 PM
 #38377

0.12.2.0 tagged for release. https://github.com/monero-project/monero/releases/tag/v0.12.2.0

The reddit fam are thinking with this release a more official announcement of ledger support will occur.
May add a little today on the pure hope that ledger support isn't fully priced in. Assuming that affects price at all.

Great to see but yeah, it's already priced in. You never know though a P&D may follow but I will bet against a major floor raise. Although I think we turned the corner on the slide so this is indeed great news.

The fact that Bitcoin devs cannot fork Bitcoin to change a core feature on a whim is one reason why Monero will never compete against Bitcoin on the monetary use case.

The fact that the devs can change the POW on Monero is a fucking disgrace and strongly diminish its long term expected value. I look forward to see their next unilateral change of a core protocol feature.

No the fact that this is possible is because Monero had forks every 6 months and until that will go on will be possible.  Why that is possible, because Monero developers are not afraid of anyone to keep old fork alive as many other coins developers are.


BldSwtTrs if you like ASIC mined Monero you have it. It dont have few important upgrades but there it is. Support it and make it grow and donate or hire their developers to develop it further or at least copy/paste new Monero code there.   You can do it. But all this is sort of offcopic here then.   Dont say something is disgrace, just do it better and show the way with example.


Either your feeding a troll or he is ignorant of so many basic concepts have fun catching him up to date. Wink

So what are people implying here?

That's ASIC owners were also the coin pumpers and manipulators?




Some points:

- Hashrate was DOMINATED by "unknown" players last year and up to the HF.
- This was often attributed to botnets.
- 2 manufacturers produced CN ASICS around the time of this increase
- The moment the hashing alg was changed >60% hashrate disappeared.
- Three versions of the old chain were created (XMC, XMO, XMsomethingelse)
- Much of the displaced hashrate seemed to go to these chains.

It has been suggested that tBitmain created the ASICS, burned them in for a while (what?  6 months? lol)  And thten put them on the market.

It has been suggested that Bitmain (or some other ASIC manufacturer) created one or more of the "classic" chains to continue to be mined by ASICS.

It seems Zooko met with Jihan Wu and determined by feels that Jihan had nothing to do with the extra hashrate or the forks.

Butterfly Labs

Wonderful story, one of the first of its kind with a few others around then

Asic hardware and hardware mining companies need full transparency to determine legitmacy, unlike what you would expect in the gold market

Explains how it all works.
https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/23/6833047/bitcoin-conspiracy-theorists-vindicated-as-ftc-shuts-down-butterfly-labs



How to play the market

just play the scam (in other words all markets have a collective that can dump at any time - fiat, stocks, gold, crypto)
follow the whales, buy the dip

its a buy the dip scheme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0akBdQa55b4



The bolded is not true at all, butterfly labs failed because of the monolithic structure of the chip which in turn caused a cascading effect making them non competitive. Their delays and capitol bleeding were all do to TDP, A company that has the resources to build something in the background like bitmain did, has no need of transparency and neither does intel, AMd, samsung or a host of other manufacturers.

Hah, O wait I see your problem, it's your reading comprehension. From your article, they didn't fail because of transparency at all in providing hardware. The real failure was they were unable to compete by the time they shipped.

Quote
As pointed out in court filings Butterfly Labs made last night, Butterfly Labs has shipped more than $33 million in products to customers and voluntarily granted refunds approximating $17 million to customers for cancelled orders. Butterfly Labs was literally is in the midst of shipping out completed products to fulfill the remaining millions of dollars of orders on our books and issuing requested refunds, when the FTC effectively closed the doors of Butterfly Labs without any chance to be heard in court.



Since i joined in this forum, it was only then that i know about some of alternate coins that is flying in colors and Monero is one of them. It almost reached 500$ mark before it went down. I speculate that when bitcoin will have an ATH this year, Monero will also have a new price high too.

I believe you are correct sir.


“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
Katashi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 250


CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!


View Profile
June 05, 2018, 01:20:50 PM
 #38378

I guess monero lost it's stronghold for now, from top 5 it losses it's position to now 12 i guess. I believe the blame is on the devs itself because of there are no upcoming news or further developments as of now. I guess it is time for the devs to come up with something new that may convince it's previous and new investors. Not just another community hype but a progress that will make XMR a promising coin for the future.

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
                     .██████████████████████████████████.
                  -█████████████████████████████████████████
               -███████████████████████████████████████████████
           .-█████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .      .████████████████████████████████████████████████.

       .       .██████████████████████████████████████████████
       .    ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
           .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████
              .████████████████████████████████████████████████
                   ████████████████████████████████████████
                      ██████████████████████████████████
                          ██████████████████████████
                             ████████████████████
                               ████████████████
                                   █████████
YoBit InvestBox| 
BUY X10 AND EARN 10% DAILY
🏆
Hueristic
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2688
Merit: 1979


Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it


View Profile
June 05, 2018, 01:38:03 PM
Merited by infofront (1)
 #38379

I guess monero lost it's stronghold for now, from top 5 it losses it's position to now 12 i guess. I believe the blame is on the devs itself because of there are no upcoming news or further developments as of now. I guess it is time for the devs to come up with something new that may convince it's previous and new investors. Not just another community hype but a progress that will make XMR a promising coin for the future.

Orrrr, maybe it's designed to be money and not a investment opportunity as in if you read any of the literature?

But you can always get a bunch of redditors to back Mcafee and you'll get a quick pump to exit on.

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
Febo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2478
Merit: 1255



View Profile
June 05, 2018, 01:43:05 PM
 #38380

XMR is being added to Huobi???

https://twitter.com/BitMartian/status/1003985430273028096


If this is true it is big. Huobi is last big exchange without Monero.  I believe you can withdraw small daily amounts even when not verified account.  Like blast from the past.


        ▄▄▀▀▀▄▄
     ▄▄▀▄▄███▄▄▀▄▄
  ▄▄▀▄▄█████████▄▄▀▄▄
▄▀▄▄█████ ██▄▄▄▄▀██▄▄▀▄
█ ██████ ▄ █████ ████ █
█ █████ ▄█▄ ██ ▄█████ █
█ ████ ▄███▄ ██ █████ █
█ ███ ▄█████▄ ██ ████ █
▀▄▀▀█▄███████▄██▄██▀▀▄▀
  ▀▀▄▀▀█████████▀▀▄▀▀
     ▀▀▄▀▀███▀▀▄▀▀
        ▀▀▄▄▄▀▀

       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
   ▄▄▀▀       ▀▀▄▄
  █               █ ▄
 █   █▀▄ ▀█▀ ▀█▀   █ ▀▄
 █   █▀▄  █   █    █  ▀▄
  █  ▀▀   ▀   ▀   █    █
▄▀ ▄▄           ▄▀    ▄▀
 ▀▀  ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀      ▀▄
        ▀▄▄      ▄▄▀▀▄▄▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀▀

                      ▄▄▄
  ▄█▄              ▄███████▄
  ▀████▄▄         ██████▀██████▀
    ▀▀▀████▄▄     ███████████▀
    ▀██▄███████▄▄███████████
     ▄▄▄▀██████████████████
      ▀████████████████████
▀█▄▄     ▀████████████████
  ▀████████████████▀█████
    ▀████████████▀▄▄███▀
       ▀▀██████████▀▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀

               ▄▄   ▄▄
              ▄▀ ▀▀█  █
             ▄▀     ▀▀
         ▄▄▄▄█▄
     ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄
 ▄▀▄▀              ▀▄▀▄
█  █   ▄█▄    ▄█▄   █  █
 ▀█    ▀█▀    ▀█▀    █▀
  █                  █
   █   ▀▄      ▄▀   █
    ▀▄   ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▄▀
      ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████████▄▄
 ▄██████████████████████████▄
▄████████████████████████████▄
██████████ ▀▀█████████████████
██████████     ▀▀█████████████
██████████         ▀▀█████████
██████████         ▄▄█████████
██████████     ▄▄█████████████
██████████ ▄▄█████████████████
▀████████████████████████████▀
 ▀██████████████████████████▀
   ▀▀████████████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄██▀▀             ▀▀██▄
▄██              ▄▄   ██▄
██        ▄▄▄▄▄  ▀▀    ██
██      ▄▀     ▀▄      ██
██     █         █     ██
██     █         █     ██
██      ▀▄     ▄▀      ██
██        ▀▀▀▀▀        ██
▀██                   ██▀
 ▀██▄▄             ▄▄██▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄█████████████████████▄
▄██████████████▀▀███████▄
████████████▀▀    ███████
█████████▀▀   ▄   ███████
██████▀▀     █    ███████
████▀       █     ███████
█████▄▄   ▄█      ███████
████████ ██▄      ███████
▀████████ ▀▄███▄▄███████▀
 ▀█████████████████████▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

  ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 █████████████████████
███████████████████████
███████████▀    ███████
██████████  ▄██████████
██████████  ███████████
████████      ▄████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
██████████  ███████████
 █████████████████████
  ▀▀███████████████▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████▄▄
 ▄█████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀█████▄
▄████▀  ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀  ▀████▄
████▀                ▀████
███▀                  ▀███
███       ▄    ▄       ███
██▀      ███  ███      ▀██
██       ▀█▀  ▀█▀       ██
██▄     ▄        ▄     ▄██
▀██▄     ▀▀▄▄▄▄▀▀     ███▀
 ▀███▄▄▄▄▄▄████▄▄▄▄▄▄███▀
   ▀▀████████████████▀▀
Pages: « 1 ... 1869 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874 1875 1876 1877 1878 1879 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918 [1919] 1920 1921 1922 1923 1924 1925 1926 1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 ... 2153 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!