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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3252416 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (2 posts by 2 users deleted.)
DaveyJones
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May 30, 2018, 05:33:59 PM
 #38381

We voted not to include you in the vote
Where have you voted? Who are the people who voted? What are the criteria to be able to do so?

I am serious here. When the fixed supply have been lifted, there were a debate and a vote.

Did the same process happen regarding this very important decision? Is there any kind of documentation of this process?

The whole thing is called consensus, everyone who doesn't or didnt agree now has XMO/XMC/XM-C, and as the whole eco-system decided that the fork will get consensus ( pools, exchanges all call the Non-Asic Chain XMR )

I guess the poll was a once in a lifetime thing for monero as the community was still small and there also were no other channels like there is nowadays.

There were debates all over reddit for weeks about it ( guess its reddit because there is the biggest part of the community now )
Thank you for the serious answer.

Due to inertie effect, whatever is merged in the Github repo of a protocol manage to gather consensus. So basically it's the monero devs who decided that Bitmain was evil and therefore that Monero should undergo a change of its security backbone? Who are the devs who were pro fork and the one who were against? Were there any demonstration of the dangerousness of the old POW or of the safety of a change?

Can we except other important decisions to be taken the same way in the future?

Thats not quite how it works, devs code thats right, but there is always back and forth with the community through different channels and plenty of people talking to each other, so if you wanted you could join this discussions too, in the github issues for example.

In case of the PoW Fork it also was a whole different scenario if you read the monero whitepaper - the whitepaper states "that monero should have an egalitarian proof of work" so it's kinda the social contract that should be "obeyed". So CPU and GPU's are egalitarian as everyone who owns a computer has one, meanwhile not everyone owns ASIC's and they also have rather small batches that is far from commodisation and especially players like Bitmain showed in the past that they mine their tech first and dominate PoWs before giving it to the public...

tl;dr PoW change was an obvious/essential move as "egalitarian" is part of the social contract
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May 30, 2018, 08:48:52 PM
 #38382

Overall the change in mining algorithm was a really good call.  I actually remember most talks before was about bot mining.  Now is obvious why. Asic miners owners were pushing that agenda that bot miners are controlling most of  hash power. I pretty much believed them.

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May 30, 2018, 11:43:28 PM
 #38383

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.
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May 31, 2018, 07:01:06 AM
 #38384

anyone of you guys think we hit the bottom regarding btc value of xmr?
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May 31, 2018, 07:26:22 AM
 #38385

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.

"egalitarian" is a fundamental philosophical principal. Monero must be ASIC-resistant forever. I have to ask devs - whether it is possible to include timestamp dependencies directly into PoW algorithm? Or in general, could PoW entangle some bits from the outer world, that ASIC to stay impossible without regular forks (typically twice a year) to make ASIC impossible?
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May 31, 2018, 07:32:49 AM
 #38386

anyone of you guys think we hit the bottom regarding btc value of xmr?

If one answers why altcoins (I've checked XMR,ZEC,Dash) fall against BTC last days, while BTC itself in flat or Bart's head?

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May 31, 2018, 07:39:10 AM
 #38387

I went long on XMR  because I think that the weekly supppet which was tested multiples times will end up holding. The suppprt is in the $150 area or so. This is basically the exact same setup as Litecoin but in the $110 range.

I believe that we will at least retest the descending wedge and I will take partial profits there and hold incase it ends up breaking when FOMO is activated and it ends up going to like $500 later in the year.





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May 31, 2018, 12:58:18 PM
 #38388

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.

But Zooko has looked into Jihan's heart and seen the light and love!

https://forum.z.cash/t/so-i-had-a-videochat-with-jihan-wu/29379

Quote
I said that a large fraction — maybe 60% or so — of the XMR hashrate had disappeared from XMR and switched to XMO, and asked if that was Bitmain’s mining operation. He immediately replied “No, it was not us. We released the Monero miner right after the samples.”

For what it is worth, I didn’t get the feeling that he was lying about this. I felt like he was telling the truth. I asked him again if they had been doing any Monero mining with ASICs, because it really seemed like someone must have been, and he said something like that he saw the theory that there was a large-scale stealth ASIC miner, and that he hadn’t had time to look into it to tell if it was real or just a hypothesis, but that in any case it wasn’t them. Again, he sounded sincere to me.
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May 31, 2018, 01:04:13 PM
 #38389

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.

"egalitarian" is a fundamental philosophical principal. Monero must be ASIC-resistant forever. I have to ask devs - whether it is possible to include timestamp dependencies directly into PoW algorithm? Or in general, could PoW entangle some bits from the outer world, that ASIC to stay impossible without regular forks (typically twice a year) to make ASIC impossible?


Egalitarian and ASICs are not diametrically opposed forever.  Once ASICs become commoditized like GPUs there would be much less need to defend against the centralization ASICs can currently cause.

A big player like Samsung, or others would be useful here.

Of course theat could also mean changint eh hash to something more "standard".

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May 31, 2018, 01:34:44 PM
 #38390

I think monero will have a better run this year than last year and i hope my investment on it will be worthy for my money. I believe in monero because of its usage and popularity and i speculate that it will reach 500$ this year.
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May 31, 2018, 02:35:32 PM
 #38391

So what are people implying here?

That's ASIC owners were also the coin pumpers and manipulators?



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May 31, 2018, 02:41:16 PM
 #38392

So what are people implying here?

That's ASIC owners were also the coin pumpers and manipulators?

No, more like that if they can mine 10 times more then any other miner fro same electricity cost they will push out all other miners. They coin lose support. And ofcourse is super vulnerable to 51% attacks.

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May 31, 2018, 03:26:38 PM
 #38393

I think monero will have a better run this year than last year and i hope my investment on it will be worthy for my money. I believe in monero because of its usage and popularity and i speculate that it will reach 500$ this year.


if it only reaches 500 wouldn’t that mean it didn’t have as good a run?
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May 31, 2018, 04:38:03 PM
 #38394

I think monero will have a better run this year than last year and i hope my investment on it will be worthy for my money. I believe in monero because of its usage and popularity and i speculate that it will reach 500$ this year.


if it only reaches 500 wouldn’t that mean it didn’t have as good a run?


How much is Monero now?   What % increase would it have then to reach $500.  What do you think? Is that a good run or not?  Probably it depends of person. LOL   Ask your neighbours what do they think.

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phishead
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May 31, 2018, 07:19:00 PM
 #38395

I think monero will have a better run this year than last year and i hope my investment on it will be worthy for my money. I believe in monero because of its usage and popularity and i speculate that it will reach 500$ this year.


if it only reaches 500 wouldn’t that mean it didn’t have as good a run?


How much is Monero now?   What % increase would it have then to reach $500.  What do you think? Is that a good run or not?  Probably it depends of person. LOL   Ask your neighbours what do they think.

Considering most normal people think in the context of stock markets and could relate to a "good run" being 10-15% for the year in their 401(k)'s; people would be absolutely dumbfounded why you would even ask if a +200% ROI in a year is a "good run".  Cryptocurrency markets hardly make sense to me still to this day.


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Monero
XMR Open Alias: phishead@xmr.id
"I just opened a 2004 barolo in your and all the devs honour"  eyejay:  Decemeber 22nd, 2016
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May 31, 2018, 07:42:57 PM
 #38396

So what are people implying here?

That's ASIC owners were also the coin pumpers and manipulators?




Some points:

- Hashrate was DOMINATED by "unknown" players last year and up to the HF.
- This was often attributed to botnets.
- 2 manufacturers produced CN ASICS around the time of this increase
- The moment the hashing alg was changed >60% hashrate disappeared.
- Three versions of the old chain were created (XMC, XMO, XMsomethingelse)
- Much of the displaced hashrate seemed to go to these chains.

It has been suggested that tBitmain created the ASICS, burned them in for a while (what?  6 months? lol)  And thten put them on the market.

It has been suggested that Bitmain (or some other ASIC manufacturer) created one or more of the "classic" chains to continue to be mined by ASICS.

It seems Zooko met with Jihan Wu and determined by feels that Jihan had nothing to do with the extra hashrate or the forks.
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May 31, 2018, 08:35:38 PM
 #38397

It is better let the price find a realistic point from where the community is able to absorb the coins.
Personally I am not quit supporting Monero but I am not a buyer at the moment neither since I do not see it realistic to be able to absorb the emitted the coins
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May 31, 2018, 10:11:09 PM
 #38398

I think monero will have a better run this year than last year and i hope my investment on it will be worthy for my money. I believe in monero because of its usage and popularity and i speculate that it will reach 500$ this year.


if it only reaches 500 wouldn’t that mean it didn’t have as good a run?


How much is Monero now?   What % increase would it have then to reach $500.  What do you think? Is that a good run or not?  Probably it depends of person. LOL   Ask your neighbours what do they think.

Considering most normal people think in the context of stock markets and could relate to a "good run" being 10-15% for the year in their 401(k)'s; people would be absolutely dumbfounded why you would even ask if a +200% ROI in a year is a "good run".  Cryptocurrency markets hardly make sense to me still to this day.


Yes I would understand that once Monero will be $500, there will be some people not happy with the price, since out of 100000 shitcoins there will always be one that will outperform. But now when price is 3 times lower.  How could you not be happy with 3 times increase of your wealth. Is just not a question at all.

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MinersRus
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June 01, 2018, 03:58:57 AM
 #38399

Who are the genius who decided to fork the POW algo?

I applaud said genius (which was the community by the way) because when they forked the ASIC's to the curb the profitability went from a paltry $0.56 per kHs to the current $1.18 kH/s. Even with the depressed price it is still double the profitability.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/monero-mining_profitability.html#3m

https://bitinfocharts.com/monero
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June 01, 2018, 06:16:37 AM
 #38400

I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.

If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.

That doesn't matter at all it has be be decentralized to stay trustless. Having a trusted overlord is not acceptable either.


Egalitarian and ASICs are not diametrically opposed forever.  Once ASICs become commoditized like GPUs there would be much less need to defend against the centralization ASICs can currently cause.

A big player like Samsung, or others would be useful here.

Of course theat could also mean changint eh hash to something more "standard".



Interesting thought, maybe someday but I think it will always be something like a extension (I.E. AES-NI) as opposed to a complete asic. If you add a asic to another circuit (like a phone) then it is no longer a Pure Asic. Where the line is drawn can be fuzzy like in a GPU, does having cuda (or the other thousands of instructions not specific to just displaying an image) make it no longer application specific?


“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
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