[XMR] Monero Speculation

[luigi1111]

In NoodleDoodle's performance commit he noted a benchmark of 2.5ms/tx on i7-2600. That's 400 tx/sec on a 2011 desktop. A reasonably priced current-gen server (say dual-Xeon 10-core CPUs) is probably several times faster so close to 5K/sec, but I don't know the exact numbers. There is more optimization available still (we aren't using the most optimized elliptic curve asm library available from Bernstein for example, just his sort-of-optimized C library).

With the move to ringCT, it will probably be different (though some of the differences will offset, such as having fewer outputs/tx), and we will have to reevaluate.

Sweet!   

When I tell people about this good news during my Monero evangelizing, how do I explain why our sig_ops are so much faster than Old Grandpa Bitcoin's?

As I understand it (not a cryptographer), there is some inherent performance benefit to the curve25119-based cryptography (or maybe to implementing it on real hardware), but I don't know the magnitude nor how close either implementation is to optimized enough for that to matter.

In reality I think raw signature verification performance is really one of the least important scalability concerns in practice, currently, and both implementations are reasonably optimized once libsecp256k1 is integrated into Bitcoin Core (already done, but I think not released yet).

In addition to any inherent ed25519/curve25519/EdDSA advantages, Bitcoin also presently has this "bytes hashed" problem that scales quadradically with size and number of sig_ops (or something; I've not studied it in depth). SW "fixes" this. I say "fixes" because it really doesn't solve the potential DoS problem with larger blocks at all as long as old style transactions are still allowed. Monero transactions (currently) do not have this issue; the bytes used for signature checking is only hashed once per Tx, no matter how many signatures there are.

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[jehst]

Better crypto market i.e. capital flowing into the space instead of a bunch of coins competing with each of other for the same scraps, each getting excited when it moves up a few spots on CMC, then disappointed when the pump ends and and some other coin becomes the favorite flavor of the day.

I totally agree that we're seeing a zero-sum churn. Litecoin bubbled last year. Now Ethereum. Before it was Bitshares. People are getting excited by nothing is really happening.  The coins are all jockeying for position and no new value is being created.

We are really waiting for a resurgence in cryptocurrency as a whole. Monero just needs to stay on the list and maintain reasonable liquidity and a reasonable economy. When the time comes (if it comes), then XMR will get what's coming to it.

[GingerAle]

Better crypto market i.e. capital flowing into the space instead of a bunch of coins competing with each of other for the same scraps, each getting excited when it moves up a few spots on CMC, then disappointed when the pump ends and and some other coin becomes the favorite flavor of the day.

I totally agree that we're seeing a zero-sum churn. Litecoin bubbled last year. Now Ethereum. Before it was Bitshares. People are getting excited by nothing is really happening.  The coins are all jockeying for position and no new value is being created.

We are really waiting for a resurgence in cryptocurrency as a whole. Monero just needs to stay on the list and maintain reasonable liquidity and a reasonable economy. When the time comes (if it comes), then XMR will get what's coming to it.

Right so the question is what brings capital. Cryptocurrencies have 2 primary "offerings": 1) decentralized currency 2) trustless remittance.

In the short term, I see #2 being the most realistic use of the technology. Once banks figure out that their permissioned blockchains are useless, they will need to assess the capacity, strength, and offerings of the existing open networks. The will obviously be attracted to use bitcoin due to its incredible security (hashrate, nodecount), but they will be turned off by its transparency and lack of capacity. Due to marketing etc., they will probably research at least 3-4 other networks before coming to Monero, which offers both limitless capacity and transactional privacy, but doesn't have a very robust network.

Unfortunately for us moonshot dreamers, the use of a cryptocurrency network as remittance backbone does not require any change in valuation. I.e., if big mega bank group decided to use monero as its remittance backbone, they could all just agree that 1 monero  = 10 million USD for their own record keeping purposes. So when Bank A sends 1 monero to Bank B, Bank B's record keeper will just "oh yeah Bank A just sent us 10 million USD". Its all just a unit of account. What that unit of account represents is up to the ones using the unit of account.

The valuation would change, however, if they require a lot of resources - i.e., a lot of these units of account. Because thats what monero (or any cryptocurrency) is... an ability to record in the ledger. So perhaps if big mega banks remittance backbone requires lots and lots of actual blockchain use (A sent to B and then B shaved 10% and sent 90% to C and C sent to D yada yada yada).

Of course the first offering, as a decentralized currency, runs the hurdle of completely unrealistic implementation where it is actually needed. I remember reading it somewhere, that cryptocurrencies were developed in the countries that need it the least - countries with a relatively stable and/or functioning government issued currency system. The people that truly need a decentralized currency system are the ones in countries with whackadoodle governments meddling poorly with the monetary system. The question is, of course, how to get cryptocurrency infrastructure into these places.

but im just saying things people already know. I guess I like to see myself type? (the equivalent of hear myself speak).

[DieJohnny]

everything has been bubbling but XMR.... why is XMR such an ugly duckling....?

Shouldn't XMR be beating Dash... but Dash volume is respectable, XMR volume is heading into Megacoin, Quark territory, shameful.

Explain

[generalizethis]

everything has been bubbling but XMR.... why is XMR such an ugly duckling....?

Shouldn't XMR be beating Dash... but Dash volume is respectable, XMR volume is heading into Megacoin, Quark territory, shameful.

Explain

I pretty much have the same question. Although I do hold a bit of hope for Monero. It has just always been in the back of my mind, just a feeling.

Meanwhile dashguy's wondering why Bitcoin Devs slam Evan's (genius?) tech, why they don't have a video game, and why their marketcap has stagnated....

[Shrikez]

Bears win another round.

woohoo... 

[RyanLiang]

Bears win another round.

woohoo... 

I think the whales are just accumulating, so they keep the price below around $0.5. After they have enough, the price will go higher.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Bears win another round.

woohoo...  

I think the whales are just accumulating, so they keep the price below around $0.5. After they have enough, the price will go higher.

Whales accumulating is always an excuse of bearish trend. Accumulating whales = bagholders.

[slapper]

Hard fork on the way, bugs still being squashed, RingCT news PnD'd, BTC price rise ...the trolls factor everything.

[Shrikez]

Bears win another round.

woohoo...  

I think the whales are just accumulating, so they keep the price below around $0.5. After they have enough, the price will go higher.

Whales accumulating is always an excuse of bearish trend. Accumulating whales = bagholders.

Guess it was you who shorted the 15 k earlier today. I always wondered why you don't take your trading games to coins with higher volumes.

[TrueCryptonaire]

Bears win another round.

woohoo...  

I think the whales are just accumulating, so they keep the price below around $0.5. After they have enough, the price will go higher.

Whales accumulating is always an excuse of bearish trend. Accumulating whales = bagholders.

Guess it was you who shorted the 15 k earlier today. I always wondered why you don't take your trading games to coins with higher volumes.

Nope.
I have no open interests in the market.
I was lucky however to get lent some coins for 2 days at 0.0001 %, however, the amount I've lent is so minimal that I am embarrassed to reveal it. I wish the coin dust is worth something in the long run.

[saddambitcoin]

Monero is meant to be used, not bought and held to be sold for a higher price. If you want to support Monero, all the work that is being done, then use it. Spend it on things. Then if you enjoy the privacy that comes with it, buy back the coins you spent.

[iCEBREAKER]

Monero is meant to be used, not bought and held to be sold for a higher price. If you want to support Monero, all the work that is being done, then use it. Spend it on things. Then if you enjoy the privacy that comes with it, buy back the coins you spent.

Why not both?  People who hlod keep the price up, which gives more economic power to spenders and creates an incentive for merchant acceptance.

But yes, it's time for Monero's 'alpaca socks' phase where we demonstrate its utility as a p2p payment medium.

I'll be making a 'Monero Comic and Coin' thread selling collectibles.  Watch for it Soon^TM.   

[dEBRUYNE]

Monero is meant to be used, not bought and held to be sold for a higher price. If you want to support Monero, all the work that is being done, then use it. Spend it on things. Then if you enjoy the privacy that comes with it, buy back the coins you spent.

There is room for both. Afterall, Monero has to grow in order to allow more expensive transactions on the network. Imagine buying a million dollar house with Monero, you would need nearly 20% of the supply to buy it.

[smooth]

Monero is meant to be used, not bought and held to be sold for a higher price. If you want to support Monero, all the work that is being done, then use it. Spend it on things. Then if you enjoy the privacy that comes with it, buy back the coins you spent.

There is room for both. Afterall, Monero has to grow in order to allow more expensive transactions on the network. Imagine buying a million dollar house with Monero, you would need nearly 20% of the supply to buy it.

Just look back at that network effect graph I posted a month or so ago. All these things work together.

[GingerAle]

Monero is meant to be used, not bought and held to be sold for a higher price. If you want to support Monero, all the work that is being done, then use it. Spend it on things. Then if you enjoy the privacy that comes with it, buy back the coins you spent.

Why not both?  People who hlod keep the price up, which gives more economic power to spenders and creates an incentive for merchant acceptance.

But yes, it's time for Monero's 'alpaca socks' phase where we demonstrate its utility as a p2p payment medium.

I'll be making a 'Monero Comic and Coin' thread selling collectibles.  Watch for it Soon^TM.   

I'm selling Monero node / mining related hardware: http://nodebox.link/

I'm thinking of dropping the basic kit to $75 with a 500 gb HD.

[Days]

everything has been bubbling but XMR.... why is XMR such an ugly duckling....?

Shouldn't XMR be beating Dash... but Dash volume is respectable, XMR volume is heading into Megacoin, Quark territory, shameful.

Explain

When I started looking into altcoins XMR was around .00105 & Dash was .0061  Now it's .00128 XMR & .0128 Dash....Dash team went places in different countries and doing massive PR while the only PR that Monero did is spamming bitcointalk threads with an online game that most of us do not understand or care about and making useless threads by it's supporters.

Let alone the slow development that goes with XMR developers with no clear time limit or even a time guess from the developers, even if they tell us we will be finishing (insert what ever they are developing now) in 2017 this gives people something to look forward to at least.

[dEBRUYNE]

everything has been bubbling but XMR.... why is XMR such an ugly duckling....?

Shouldn't XMR be beating Dash... but Dash volume is respectable, XMR volume is heading into Megacoin, Quark territory, shameful.

Explain

When I started looking into altcoins XMR was around .00105 & Dash was .0061  Now it's .00128 XMR & .0128 Dash....Dash team went places in different countries and doing massive PR while the only PR that Monero did is spamming bitcointalk threads with an online game that most of us do not understand or care about and making useless threads by it's supporters.

Let alone the slow development that goes with XMR developers with no clear time limit or even a time guess from the developers, even if they tell us we will be finishing (insert what ever they are developing now) in 2017 this gives people something to look forward to at least.

You did that for convenience (and to make it look worse) didn't you? DASH price is around 0.011, which is far away from the price you stated. Bear in mind that all the XMR contributors added way more code in the last 1-2 years than the DASH contributors did.

That's nonsense as well, see for instance the GUI -> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/2476/the-official-qt-gui-project

At worst it will be finished within the next 6 months, but it will probably be finished way earlier.

[Days]

everything has been bubbling but XMR.... why is XMR such an ugly duckling....?

Shouldn't XMR be beating Dash... but Dash volume is respectable, XMR volume is heading into Megacoin, Quark territory, shameful.

Explain

When I started looking into altcoins XMR was around .00105 & Dash was .0061  Now it's .00128 XMR & .0128 Dash....Dash team went places in different countries and doing massive PR while the only PR that Monero did is spamming bitcointalk threads with an online game that most of us do not understand or care about and making useless threads by it's supporters.

Let alone the slow development that goes with XMR developers with no clear time limit or even a time guess from the developers, even if they tell us we will be finishing (insert what ever they are developing now) in 2017 this gives people something to look forward to at least.

You did that for convenience (and to make it look worse) didn't you? DASH price is around 0.011, which is far away from the price you stated. Bear in mind that all the XMR contributors added way more code in the last 1-2 years than the DASH contributors did.

That's nonsense as well, see for instance the GUI -> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/2476/the-official-qt-gui-project

At worst it will be finished within the next 6 months, but it will probably be finished way earlier.

My bad meant to write it .0112 and not 0.012 still big difference when u compare it to XMR price?

Adding lines in you're code does not mean it is quality code. It is enough for them to spam threads with useless content I don't want them to spam lines in their coding specially when it does not make sense.

[bitebits]

I don't want them to spam lines in their coding specially when it does not make sense.

Then you are in the right place kid.

Monero is doing the job properly. No hyping, just coding and making Monero more awesome everyday. Quality will sell itself, it only takes a little longer for people to find out and realize the value of that fact. No rushing required, instead try to support wherever you can.