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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation  (Read 3180183 times)
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Last of the V8s
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December 04, 2018, 09:09:10 PM
 #40041

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.
Did I miss something?
Not sure that quoting their own definitions is valid.
Just so is the case with Bitcoins and markets : it makes perfect sense for the currency itself to be decentralized. It makes absolutely no sense at all for the marketplace to be decentralized. In fact, a decentralized market is about as much a market as a deenginized car is a car. The market is precisely where economic agents come together, that's what it does, it centralizes trade. Further, it is sensible for the currency itself to be as trustless as possible, and thus mechanisms that implement trustlessness are a net gain in that field. A market can never exist at all without trust, and so mechanisms that purportedly implement "trustlessness" are nothing but clunk in this field.
Take bisq and their arbitration process: trust and centralisation around the 2 fellows.
Or their software: you have to trust whatever is on their repository unless you've read and agree with every line of the code, because as we were reminded recently, 'open source' does not get nearly enough eyes on it.

I do not accept segwit outputs as payment, nor send them.
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December 04, 2018, 09:37:22 PM
 #40042

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.
Did I miss something?
Not sure that quoting their own definitions is valid.
Just so is the case with Bitcoins and markets : it makes perfect sense for the currency itself to be decentralized. It makes absolutely no sense at all for the marketplace to be decentralized. In fact, a decentralized market is about as much a market as a deenginized car is a car. The market is precisely where economic agents come together, that's what it does, it centralizes trade. Further, it is sensible for the currency itself to be as trustless as possible, and thus mechanisms that implement trustlessness are a net gain in that field. A market can never exist at all without trust, and so mechanisms that purportedly implement "trustlessness" are nothing but clunk in this field.
Take bisq and their arbitration process: trust and centralisation around the 2 fellows.
Or their software: you have to trust whatever is on their repository unless you've read and agree with every line of the code, because as we were reminded recently, 'open source' does not get nearly enough eyes on it.

Do you have evidence that the software doesn't work as advertised? Presuming all opensource software doesn't work as advertised is shrugging the community's responsibility to vet software, which may be fine for you, but in the case of a decentralized exchange would be disastrous--even if it just the exchange getting caught, as unlike you, most people want the exchange to actually be decentralized and would cease using it if it was revealed as otherwise.

How does their arbitration process work? If it isn't being used, or even better, can't be used in most circumstances, I don't think many would have a problem with it. Like most things in technology, decentralization is spectrum, so unless there's a single point of failure, I'd say it's still decentralized--especially if the majority of the processes are out of anyone's hands once they issue their order.

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December 04, 2018, 11:08:17 PM
 #40043

Potential flaws exist in most systems - even in Bitcoin, where exchanges in particular are hardly flawless, I think the effort to offer decentralised exchange is at the very least worthwhile.  

Superficially it looks better than buying drugs on the street - so I guess in the absence of evidence, I must do my own research and find out if there is evidence of absence (of security of transactions) in my own case.

Unless anyone else with any credibility has an account of an issue actually personally experienced.

我想要火箭和火车
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December 05, 2018, 12:55:00 AM
Last edit: December 06, 2018, 05:42:43 PM by Febo
 #40044

As I understood a month ago when I listened 3 interviews and podcasts about BisQ they said that when there is a case of dispute, then solving that is still centralized and is done  by original developers. They dont trust anyone else. But that they plan to solve that in future differently.  They lack of developers to move forward as fast as they would love to.  Although Monero had so much volume they could not put all their focus into Monero fiat pair integration. They even made a bounty for people to help them. Propose how to integrate Monero wallet into Bisq https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/issues/1863

As I see this is that we now have v0.9.0.  When we will get to v1.0.0  , that will mean that we got somewhere. It could take long time. But we cant have super huge expectations before that happens.

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[/]
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December 06, 2018, 01:47:44 PM
 #40045

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353


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December 06, 2018, 02:13:17 PM
Last edit: December 06, 2018, 02:42:08 PM by tokeweed
 #40046

^  You mean those two random people on the Twitters with fake followers drawing random lines on an XMR chart?  Any 4 year old can do that.  Lmao.

Edit:  Skillz.


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December 06, 2018, 02:57:12 PM
 #40047

Great! You know how to do it to. You're the man!  Cool

^  You mean those two random people on the Twitters with fake followers drawing random lines on an XMR chart?  Any 4 year old can do that.  Lmao.

Edit:  Skillz.



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December 06, 2018, 02:58:27 PM
Merited by Kryptowerk (1)
 #40048

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.
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December 06, 2018, 03:11:59 PM
 #40049

I am hoping for a day and indeed a time when bitcoin will not have any influence on monero price in the cryptocurrency market.  I think monero is capable of holding it's own.  The value of monero should be derive from it's use cases!

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December 06, 2018, 04:21:14 PM
 #40050

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.
Did I miss something?
Not sure that quoting their own definitions is valid.
Just so is the case with Bitcoins and markets : it makes perfect sense for the currency itself to be decentralized. It makes absolutely no sense at all for the marketplace to be decentralized. In fact, a decentralized market is about as much a market as a deenginized car is a car. The market is precisely where economic agents come together, that's what it does, it centralizes trade. Further, it is sensible for the currency itself to be as trustless as possible, and thus mechanisms that implement trustlessness are a net gain in that field. A market can never exist at all without trust, and so mechanisms that purportedly implement "trustlessness" are nothing but clunk in this field.
Take bisq and their arbitration process: trust and centralisation around the 2 fellows.
Or their software: you have to trust whatever is on their repository unless you've read and agree with every line of the code, because as we were reminded recently, 'open source' does not get nearly enough eyes on it.

Do you have evidence that the software doesn't work as advertised? Presuming all opensource software doesn't work as advertised is shrugging the community's responsibility to vet software, which may be fine for you, but in the case of a decentralized exchange would be disastrous--even if it just the exchange getting caught, as unlike you, most people want the exchange to actually be decentralized and would cease using it if it was revealed as otherwise.

How does their arbitration process work? If it isn't being used, or even better, can't be used in most circumstances, I don't think many would have a problem with it. Like most things in technology, decentralization is spectrum, so unless there's a single point of failure, I'd say it's still decentralized--especially if the majority of the processes are out of anyone's hands once they issue their order.

He is correct that all software should be considered suspect unless it is vetted by a source you trust. Trusted in some ghost community is just as bad as trusting in microshaft. All it takes is one infiltrated library. Remember when I was asking all those questions about ZeroMq? Also you rrmeber I was saying from day 1 that json was an attack vector and should be removed from the local software and was pretty much laughed at and it turned out i was correct.

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December 06, 2018, 04:36:30 PM
 #40051

Only thing I know about bisq is it's run by these 2 blokes.
Never heard a bad thing about them.
It's not a 'decentralised exchange', and thank goodness for it, because that wouldn't make any sense.
Did I miss something?
Not sure that quoting their own definitions is valid.
Just so is the case with Bitcoins and markets : it makes perfect sense for the currency itself to be decentralized. It makes absolutely no sense at all for the marketplace to be decentralized. In fact, a decentralized market is about as much a market as a deenginized car is a car. The market is precisely where economic agents come together, that's what it does, it centralizes trade. Further, it is sensible for the currency itself to be as trustless as possible, and thus mechanisms that implement trustlessness are a net gain in that field. A market can never exist at all without trust, and so mechanisms that purportedly implement "trustlessness" are nothing but clunk in this field.
Take bisq and their arbitration process: trust and centralisation around the 2 fellows.
Or their software: you have to trust whatever is on their repository unless you've read and agree with every line of the code, because as we were reminded recently, 'open source' does not get nearly enough eyes on it.

Do you have evidence that the software doesn't work as advertised? Presuming all opensource software doesn't work as advertised is shrugging the community's responsibility to vet software, which may be fine for you, but in the case of a decentralized exchange would be disastrous--even if it just the exchange getting caught, as unlike you, most people want the exchange to actually be decentralized and would cease using it if it was revealed as otherwise.

How does their arbitration process work? If it isn't being used, or even better, can't be used in most circumstances, I don't think many would have a problem with it. Like most things in technology, decentralization is spectrum, so unless there's a single point of failure, I'd say it's still decentralized--especially if the majority of the processes are out of anyone's hands once they issue their order.

He is correct that all software should be considered suspect unless it is vetted by a source you trust. Trusted in some ghost community is just as bad as trusting in microshaft. All it takes is one infiltrated library. Remember when I was asking all those questions about ZeroMq? Also you rrmeber I was saying from day 1 that json was an attack vector and should be removed from the local software and was pretty much laughed at and it turned out i was correct.

Oh you're right, but that doesn't mean you just accuse devs of lying when you haven't gone through and even looked yourself. You're speaking for community's safety, I'm speaking for the dev's reputation.

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December 06, 2018, 06:33:49 PM
 #40052

Oh you're right, but that doesn't mean you just accuse devs of lying when you haven't gone through and even looked yourself. You're speaking for community's safety, I'm speaking for the dev's reputation.

Yeah,there is always a measure of trust if you do not do the code review yourself. The main thing is for you to decide what level of trust is acceptable.

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December 06, 2018, 09:36:28 PM
 #40053

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.

True words. It's like an equation with at least 5 unknown variables. If we place (random) values / make assumptions in three of them, leaving only two "unknowns" we can come up with a graph that shows some possible outcomes.
Right now anyone claiming to know what's gonna happen next is (at least slightly) delusional. Just my opinion.
Even great projects with high quality code, constant development and true innovation have a good chance to suffer in short/midterm from a crash of traditional markets. Hopefully it won't happen, but it seems quite likely.

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December 06, 2018, 09:44:40 PM
 #40054

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.

Well those are good sings.

But what do you think about this?
https://breakermag.com/when-wall-street-financializes-bitcoin-who-benefits/

Most people are unable to make difference between paper BTC and real BTC. But blockchain can. So we need actual use of BTC on real shopping.
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December 06, 2018, 09:52:40 PM
 #40055

Damn why Monroe is not growing, he still didn’t show ToTheMoon in relation to the cue ball, it seems to me that in 2019 he can show us this, but he will have to suffer, in general, the network is one of the most promising.

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December 06, 2018, 09:55:59 PM
 #40056

Damn why Monroe is not growing, he still didn’t show ToTheMoon in relation to the cue ball, it seems to me that in 2019 he can show us this, but he will have to suffer, in general, the network is one of the most promising.

The master would be sad to see you following an ALT I think. Wink
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December 06, 2018, 09:56:54 PM
 #40057

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.

Well those are good sings.

But what do you think about this?
https://breakermag.com/when-wall-street-financializes-bitcoin-who-benefits/

Most people are unable to make difference between paper BTC and real BTC. But blockchain can. So we need actual use of BTC on real shopping.

The real difference here is gold settlement is the lynchpin for paper gold to work.

If you HOLD YOUR PRIVATE KEYS.  They can't make fake bitcoin out of them.
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December 06, 2018, 10:31:59 PM
 #40058

I'm not spreading FUD, but has anyone seen this price projection?

XMR @ <0.007 BTC

https://twitter.com/ezbrahBTC/status/1070664392876875777
https://twitter.com/MeatTC_/status/1020783981925732353



Currently I am having a hard time seeing these isolated charts.  So much is happening in crypto/finance right now.

Ethereum imploding and reaching the technical wall so many of us saw coming.
BCH melting down.
BSV being propped up by a billionaire or two.
The era of forks slowing.
The era of blockchain attacks is heating up (e.g. vertcoin attack)
What is beginning to look like 2008-2009 scenario in world markets. (Global reset possible)

So these things just don't move in isolation.

Well those are good sings.

But what do you think about this?
https://breakermag.com/when-wall-street-financializes-bitcoin-who-benefits/

Most people are unable to make difference between paper BTC and real BTC. But blockchain can. So we need actual use of BTC on real shopping.

The real difference here is gold settlement is the lynchpin for paper gold to work.

If you HOLD YOUR PRIVATE KEYS.  They can't make fake bitcoin out of them.

I am not sure what mean "paper gold work"? But I know it works for the TPTB but not for the people.

If you HOLD YOUR PRIVATE KEYS.  They can't make fake bitcoin out of them.

Thats hard for people to understand, until they want to buy something with the paper gold. Blockchain says no. So thats why we need real world BTC shopping.

Do those paper bitcoin all ready exitst? And if so, what is the effect on BTC price? And what about the BTC futures?
Febo
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December 07, 2018, 01:35:49 AM
Last edit: December 07, 2018, 01:51:29 AM by Febo
 #40059

The other day I read a post on reddit that in Switzerland someone installed ATMs that offers Monero. At that time I thought is a new ATM. But just realized they installed General Bytes ATM. The most often Monero ATM.  Back then also counted that there are 121 Monero ATMs worldwide now. What is doubled number from few months ago when I started counting them.  Beside, Japan and South Korea there is new also in Saudi Arabia and Belgium. I probably missed a country. Anyway now i went to check what kind of ATMs that offers Monero exist. And I got this:


DOBI ATM  - have installed ATM in countries - Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, USA
Bitcoin D.A.V.E.  -"- Chile , USA
BitAccess -"- USA, Canada, Croatia, Denmark, Netherland, UK
Bitnovo -"- Spain
Trovemat -"- USA, CZ, Russia
Criptomat  -"- Ukraine
General Bytes  -"- everywhere  (55 Monero ATMs)

Bitcoin Teller -"- Australia, Vietnam, Rus, SA, Spain, USA. Italy Austria, Canada.

Bitcoin Teller is not real ATM but just a program they run on computers and a person sells you Monero or buy it from you.


So overall 7 different ATMs + this Bitcoin Teller thingy.

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December 07, 2018, 09:07:00 AM
 #40060

Monero is weighted 1% in the Morgan Creek Bitwise Digital Asset Index:
https://digitalassetindexfund.com/
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