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Author Topic: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy?  (Read 7977 times)
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April 09, 2012, 04:25:09 PM
 #41

Note however that watts / second is a unit of energy acceleration, which sounds terrifying!

Good point, fixed.

About the "maths" comment, I was mostly emphasizing that matthew didn't appear to be doing the math on his own and realize just how little stuff the x6500 came with that the average miner was going to have to purchase or supply. It is weird to see mathematics shortened in such a manner, though. Of course, this is coming from a silly American. Tongue

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April 09, 2012, 10:30:36 PM
 #42

I have no opinion on either side of this argument.

But one fact is 100% clear  to me.

Butterfly Labs Business Plan:


Sell Units for what Appears to be an amazing Price
Put a 4-5 week Shipping Time on Said Unit
Extend that 4-6 week shipping time to 6-12 week  Shipping time and Mine with Said Unit during the Duration of the Wait Period
Now Said Unit Provides Amazing Profits (and what appears to be an amazing low price to buyer)
____________________

cash in
I am awaiting for BFL singles myself and Like and Appreciate their Company myself
but to say they are not mining on these units as part of their business / profitability plan
is just plain denial

Holly Sheep Shit !
I never even thought about that......
Single TX Block Mystery Miner identified ? (I sure wish I would have read that thread now)

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April 09, 2012, 10:51:09 PM
 #43

Maybe look at the Bitforce FPGA (the $599 model as it's cheap,gives more than 820+Mhash/s and only uses 80W power) if you have the budget for it (like I hope to)

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April 10, 2012, 09:40:51 AM
 #44

The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit.  The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty.  Do the maths

Bitforce single:
830 megahash/second
80 watt
Heatsink + Fan
Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter
Price: $599 + $34 shipping = $633

Icarus miner: (discontinued)
380 megahash/second
20 watt
Heatsink + Fan
Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter
Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594

x6500:
400 megahash/second
17.2 watt
No Heatsink/No Fan
Comes with no Power adapter or USB cable
Price: $550 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping + $17.95 AC Adapter + $8.95 USB cable + ($20 Two Zalman FPGA heatsinks + $4.54 shipping) + ($2.49 90mm case fan + $6.29 shipping) = $623.62

Sources:
http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-ZM-NBF47-Northbridge-Flower-Heatsink/dp/B000ZSBVK0
http://www.amazon.com/90mm-Case-3-Pin-Connector-Black/dp/B004OFXXX8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333676747&sr=1-2

Did I do my "maths" right?

Actually, the X6500 is $565 without heatsinks, and $580 with heatsinks, which include fans.

The point of selling the X6500 as a bare bones unit is to make it as flexible as possible for people that want to figure out their own cooling and powering solution. This is especially important when buying multiple boards. Here's my own math, for two theoretical customers:

Single board customer:

X6500 with heatsinks (ordered from Cablesaurus.com):
$580 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping = $593.40

AC adapter:
taken from an old router = $0

USB cable:
who doesn't have millions of these? = $0

Total = $593.40

Multi-board customer:

10x X6500 with heatsinks (ordered directly from FPGA Mining LLC):
$550 x10 + $60 shipping = $5540

380W ATX PSU:
$45 + $4 shipping = $49

10-port USB hub:
$11 + $3 shipping = $14

10x USB cables:
$2.32 x10 = $23

Total = $5626 or $562.60 per board

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April 15, 2012, 05:27:52 PM
 #45

Actually, the X6500 is $565 without heatsinks, and $580 with heatsinks, which include fans.

The point of selling the X6500 as a bare bones unit is to make it as flexible as possible for people that want to figure out their own cooling and powering solution. This is especially important when buying multiple boards. Here's my own math, for two theoretical customers:

Single board customer:

X6500 with heatsinks (ordered from Cablesaurus.com):
$580 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping = $593.40

AC adapter:
taken from an old router = $0

USB cable:
who doesn't have millions of these? = $0

Total = $593.40

Multi-board customer:

10x X6500 with heatsinks (ordered directly from FPGA Mining LLC):
$550 x10 + $60 shipping = $5540

380W ATX PSU:
$45 + $4 shipping = $49

10-port USB hub:
$11 + $3 shipping = $14

10x USB cables:
$2.32 x10 = $23

Total = $5626 or $562.60 per board

Faire enough. I just didn't like the "holier than thou" attitude he had regarding them. You're right, the 6500 is an option for people that may want to look into powering via a power supply and may have their own usb cables/hub around for doing what they need.

To each their own, for sure. We definitely have a multitude of options available to us, and more all the time it looks like!

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April 19, 2012, 04:13:53 PM
 #46

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.

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April 19, 2012, 06:04:47 PM
 #47

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.


Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips.

Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

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April 19, 2012, 07:45:54 PM
 #48

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.


Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips.

Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.
Maybe it isn't. They have hinted at such.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 19, 2012, 07:58:42 PM
 #49

Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

Unlikely.  I am pretty certain of the chip they are using and without special pricing you are looking at $1400 for a pair of them.  Obviously BFL found a sweet deal and congrats to them but simply knowing the chip doesn't help you a whole lot.
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April 19, 2012, 09:20:10 PM
 #50

I now think the BFL chip is either:
- A custom-designed "super" FPGA, whose functional units have a bigger granularity than standard Xilinx/Altera FPGAs.
  Instead of "1 bit adder" think "8 bit adder".
or
- An array processor, for instance 32x32 (just making this up) 32-bit mini-CPUs.

According to their own words, they stumbled into Bitcoin mining, their original idea was supercomputing / cryptography applications.

In other words, I think they built an ASIC first and then stumbled into Bitcoin mining as their first volume application.
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April 21, 2012, 06:37:45 AM
 #51

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.

Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips.
Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

BFL's chip was identified. It is a Stratix III EP3SL200 or EP3SE260: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53530.msg720365#msg720365
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April 21, 2012, 01:41:20 PM
 #52

With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.

Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips.
Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip.

BFL's chip was identified. It is a Stratix III EP3SL200 or EP3SE260: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53530.msg720365#msg720365


Was this ever confirmed from another person working with Stratix chips?  I am not saying he's wrong but I was hoping there would have been a followup wave from other engineers confirming or denying such.
I myself can only take this at face value.  Undecided

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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April 23, 2012, 01:10:57 PM
 #53

Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy?

For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid.

ZTEX has a 2 year warranty.
I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line.



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April 23, 2012, 04:47:19 PM
 #54

ZTEX has a 2 year warranty.
I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line.

While I don't disagree with your logic, here's the problem the rest of us have given your logic. Why even mine when we can just buy coin and when the difficulty increases and more and more current GPU miners don't get as much coin the price rises to compensate?

I mean, we've seen the price of BTC hit a low in November/December of last year around $2, burst to $7, then now fall back down to $4 range and slowly but very gradually increase along with the difficulty. Does anyone really think that someone who owns hundreds of thousands of BTC is looking at the gradual increase and thinking it'd be a good idea to sell if they don't need it?

I think we're seeing the "hoarder effect", that is, there are always going to be some miners that refuse to sell any of their mined coin, even to recoup their investments.

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April 23, 2012, 08:32:31 PM
 #55

Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy?

For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid.

ZTEX has a 2 year warranty.
I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line.

Why is ordering a single right now stupid ? You think they are going to run away with the $$$ after they gained some reputation by selling the first batches at a loss Huh

That is highly unlikely IMHO. $20K is nothing for a business like BFL. I think they have a chance of making more money in the long run being legit than running now with your pocket change !
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April 24, 2012, 01:23:28 PM
 #56

For me it's defenetly Ztex 1.15y boards.... The two years Warranty, the good support by them and the availability is what I like to pay for.

Someday when I have a few BTC left I comsider buying one of those BFL Singles, just to get hands on Wink

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April 24, 2012, 05:58:32 PM
 #57

Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy?

For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid.

ZTEX has a 2 year warranty.
I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line.

Why is ordering a single right now stupid ? You think they are going to run away with the $$$ after they gained some reputation by selling the first batches at a loss Huh

That is highly unlikely IMHO. $20K is nothing for a business like BFL. I think they have a chance of making more money in the long run being legit than running now with your pocket change !


I'm not afraid to be scammed although they could update their website more often and give some real details about their company. In Europe companies has to put their business license number on their website. Let's forget all the fishiness and focus on the FPGA.

I can mine the price difference in four months with ZTEX board so I don't see why anyone would want to buy a single. This is assuming one would participate in a bulk order. $20k is too much for me. I don't want to wait four months. I will order some Singles/MiniRig from BFL when the lead times are better and true. Right now it's not a good option, at least not for me.
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April 24, 2012, 10:40:38 PM
 #58

The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit.  The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty.  Do the maths

Icarus miner: (discontinued)
380 megahash/second
20 watt
Heatsink + Fan
Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter
Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594



Did I do my "maths" right?

Icarus is avaible for bulk of 30 at 469$ each one

BTC: 1FHwwpjGubVr2JJsrd6QjGiUWWqt9PGvVx
LTC: LNbwFdAf4zn3FjGmnw6aknT82poY2YH3Q6
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April 27, 2012, 04:09:37 AM
 #59

The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit.  The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty.  Do the maths

Icarus miner: (discontinued)
380 megahash/second
20 watt
Heatsink + Fan
Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter
Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594



Did I do my "maths" right?

Icarus is avaible for bulk of 30 at 469$ each one

last I checked the last bulk order was over and done a while back on the icarus. I asked him to post a teaser of the Lancelot specs but he said we had to wait a little while longer.
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