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Author Topic: Coinvest for 50.4 Ghash/s at 2500w? Any interest?  (Read 1708 times)
Mr. Piglet
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April 05, 2012, 06:51:06 AM
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Hello,

as some of you might know, ButterflyLabs offers a Rig box with 50.4 Ghash/second but it's a bit expensive and I happen to have some cheap hydroelectricity up here in Canada.

Anyone would be interested to invest with me? I'm thinking about either starting a traded company on GLBSE or asking ButterflyLab to come directly to this thread and handle the pooled investment directly.

Due to the large amounts involved, I'm willing to give out my personal info. I also have a registered personal business (IT) which will prove useful for deductions. I'm not making any claims of having experience in hosting equipment, just that I can deduct electricity/running cost from the revenue.

For those not familiar with how it works, it means I can take a revenue equivalent to operation costs (example 250$) and since I deduct operation costs (250$) it means I have a net revenue of 0$ so I don't pay taxes on that part. While as an individual, I would have to pay taxes on all money coming in on my account because it's considered revenue since I can't subtract any business expenses to lower it. (revenue = cash in - deductible business expenses). I'd therefore need no extra to cover taxes for covering the running costs.

If there's enough interest for multiple machines, I'd even be willing to rent a dedicated place to host them and integrate that into my business offerings. (mostly because it would draw a lot of power.

My share would be operations cost (electricity only (+ rent of space if there's enough interest)) +5% of remaining amount. Remaining would be shared based on your participation in the acquisition. I know managing equipment can be burdensome, and efficiency gains should more than offset the percentage.

The Rig has almost 21% more hashing power per $ which is already a big plus. Plus it's a whole lot more power efficient. Plus I get cheap electricity and manage everything.

Please contact me for more info/post here if you're interested or have additional suggestions. It is not yet an official proposal, just checking if there would be interest for that service.
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vampire
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April 05, 2012, 11:48:03 AM
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For those not familiar with how it works, it means I can take a revenue equivalent to operation costs (example 250$) and since I deduct operation costs (250$) it means I have a net revenue of 0$ so I don't pay taxes on that part. While as an individual, I would have to pay taxes on all money coming in on my account because it's considered revenue since I can't subtract any business expenses to lower it. (revenue = cash in - deductible business expenses). I'd therefore need no extra to cover taxes for covering the running costs.

That's not true. You can always file as a sole proprietorship and deduct expenses. 1040 Schedule C, if you're in US. If not then no clue.




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April 05, 2012, 06:05:28 PM
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I don't recall saying you couldn't register yourself as a sole proprietorship, just that I'm already registered.
Mr. Piglet
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April 06, 2012, 04:47:17 AM
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So, it doesn't seems like there's many enthusiasts in another mining operation although according to forum and GLBSE, shares sell out quite fast when offered. Really, no suggestions/interest?

Maybe the community would prefer if I went that way and made an IPO on GLBSE so my personal info is verified by a trusted third party?

I'd really like to know there's interest in it at least before making an official offer in the marketplace and posting all my information.
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April 06, 2012, 07:23:37 PM
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I'm Interested.
I've been thinking about doing something similar or wait to join someone who did.
I'm good for a couple of grand.

Hopefully more people will show interest.
Also, interested in more details on exactly how it would work.

Will I own a portion of the mining rig for its life span?
What percentage of its earning will be held back for "operating costs"?
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April 06, 2012, 09:48:24 PM
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Quote
My share would be operations cost (electricity only (+ rent of space if there's enough interest)) +5% of remaining amount
(at current rate, total would be under 10%)

The rest would be distributed based on your parts in it for it's lifespan. Or if i go the way of GLBSE IPO, until you sell your shares.
Cablez
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April 07, 2012, 01:27:48 PM
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FYI there is no full rig box anymore.  Only the mini-rig.   Smiley

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
Mr. Piglet
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April 09, 2012, 02:53:07 AM
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Eh, all the better, will require less investment to start with. Was worried reaching investment required would be too hard. Slightly more costy per mhash tho, but half the performance and half power consumption.
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April 12, 2012, 05:52:23 PM
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If the current price for BTC is 4.89 USD and the difficulty is at 1577913, what is the 6 months ROI, if BTC price is not going up.
What will be the cost per BTC you think you can mine with this rig.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
Mr. Piglet
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April 13, 2012, 08:58:44 PM
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You know... checking is easy...
http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
http://lorelei.kaverit.org/cgi/calc.py
http://bitcoinx.com/profit/

and I'm going to market forum now to offer.
EskimoBob
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April 13, 2012, 09:16:30 PM
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So, you have no idea how it is going to work out. Cool, let me send you £10K before you find someone else to invest. LOL! 
 

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
Mr. Piglet
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April 13, 2012, 10:54:24 PM
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I'm just saying you could put the Mini-Rig stats in one of them to calculate expected bitcoin generation. I'm not giving numbers because it can vary based on luck and difficulty/price change. There's never a precise income guaranteed with any mining operation.

I already proposed 90% of generated bitcoins based on your contribution. You short it out from expected bitcoins generated and the difficulty rise you personally expect if it's worth it or not.
EskimoBob
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April 14, 2012, 07:18:49 AM
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Can you publish your calculations? With actual numbers please.


While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
P4man
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April 14, 2012, 09:21:49 AM
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So, you have no idea how it is going to work out.
 

No one has. Unless you can predict future bitcoin value and difficulty. if you can do that, save yourself the trouble of mining and head straight  for bitcoinica.

The only thing you can do, is try to be more efficient than other miners, buy buying more efficient hardware and/or having cheaper electricity and other costs, then hope for the best. But no one knows for sure if mining will become lucrative or loss making in the next 12 months. If thats not something you want to gamble on, dont invest in mining. There is nothing the OP can do about it.

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April 14, 2012, 10:39:53 AM
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P4man, I am aware of all this but I can not do any calculations based on "have some cheap hydroelectricity up here in Canada" etc.
I like to see his numbers, calculation of cost per btc etc.
He must have those numbers or he is just full of shit and is fishing for a sucker. Forums here are full of scam artist with those absurd mining contracts and what not. The moment you ask for math... pufff.
If the cost of mined coin is considerably less than the market at the moment, we can talk. If it's not, forget it. If all the hopes are built on "price will go up eventually" then it's just another bull shit scam you see here every day. I can buy the coin form the market and  have a way better investment than a pile of hardware, somewhere in goo old Canada, in some unknown basement. Smiley
I like to see his calculations. If those calculations are wrong, he has no idea wtf he is doing and this is a BIG RED FLAG!

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
Mr. Piglet
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April 14, 2012, 06:59:17 PM
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If that would sooth you that much...

1250w = 1.25 kw

1.25 kw x 24h x 0.075$/kwh = $2.25/day (CAD) for electricity costs.

Now at current difficulty, 25200 mhash/s gives an approximate ฿16.06/day (฿481.8/30 days) to be shared among contributors.

25200 mhash/s divided by $15510 (with shipping) = 1.62 mhash/s
25200 mhash/s divided by 1250w = 20.16 mhash/w (or Joule which is 1w/s)
Compare that to GPUs or the Single: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison

Subject to change while the rig is delivered, especially exchange rate but in any case, it's a quite decent machine compared to traditional GPU rig.
Mr. Piglet
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April 17, 2012, 01:24:38 AM
 #17

IPO being prepared at GLBSE, locking topic.
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