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Author Topic: Cheapest electricity in the world  (Read 20637 times)
Endgameuser
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April 10, 2012, 02:30:04 AM
 #21

So the suggestions are kazakstan, cuba, mexico, ukraine, norway, iceland. That's interesting, because only two of those are in the wikipedia page on electricity pricing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#Price_comparison

Out of these, iceland and norway seem the most suitable for westerners interested in bitcoin mining when you consider safety and language barriers.
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Endgameuser
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April 10, 2012, 02:36:52 AM
 #22

Iceland and Ukraine price it at $0.04 per Kw, in Iceland you benefit from cold environment too so no cooling costs.

Too bad the language is very different from English in those countries Cheesy

English is widely spoken as a second language in both norway and iceland
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April 10, 2012, 06:53:40 AM
 #23

So the suggestions are kazakstan, cuba, mexico, ukraine, norway, iceland. That's interesting, because only two of those are in the wikipedia page on electricity pricing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#Price_comparison

Out of these, iceland and norway seem the most suitable for westerners interested in bitcoin mining when you consider safety and language barriers.

How reliable are these power sources though? I can't imagine them being very stable.

benjamindees
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April 10, 2012, 07:01:12 AM
 #24

Apparently smart meters in Puerto Rico have been giving away pretty cheap electricity lately.

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
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April 10, 2012, 07:03:46 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing
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April 10, 2012, 07:25:15 AM
 #26

Have you considered solar power? You could create a free to run miner that only runs during the day.

It's not free - you have to invest and maintain the solar power ....

not to mention solar panels aren't very efficient
Endgameuser
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April 11, 2012, 06:30:41 AM
 #27

So the suggestions are kazakstan, cuba, mexico, ukraine, norway, iceland. That's interesting, because only two of those are in the wikipedia page on electricity pricing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#Price_comparison

Out of these, iceland and norway seem the most suitable for westerners interested in bitcoin mining when you consider safety and language barriers.

How reliable are these power sources though? I can't imagine them being very stable.

I guess it depends on the country, but i'm pretty sure iceland and norway have stable power. Although there is the occasional volcanic eruption in iceland to make things interesting
ice_chill
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April 11, 2012, 09:44:12 AM
 #28

Why wouldn't they be stable ? the countries are developed economies, the land is not very big so power lines don't have to stretch too long and it is 240v.
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April 12, 2012, 03:46:54 AM
 #29

I have seen solar panels with up to a 25 year warranty and the average life expectancy is 20-40 years. So solar power may be your best route. However in the US you can rent an apartment or Office with all bills paid and Mine as much as you want.
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April 12, 2012, 03:50:41 AM
 #30

FPGA's and eventually ASIC's, will make electricity costs irrelevant to mining.

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
wulala123
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April 12, 2012, 07:39:29 AM
 #31

Come to my country, electricity is free through various means.

wow, your country is really very good. I am attracted by your country.
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April 12, 2012, 12:52:27 PM
 #32

FPGA's and eventually ASIC's, will make electricity costs irrelevant to mining.

No it won't.  For example 100 GH/s on mini rigs is ~5KW.  That is going to be a sizable cost electrical bill.   As the average mining farm grows larger and network grows larger the zero sum aspect comes into play.

I would say for the next 18-24 months power costs won't matter much but on a long enough time horizon they will.  Remember GPU are about 10x as efficient (in MH/W) then CPU were.  So when GPU mining first hit the network power costs really didn't matter either but all that "cheap" MH drove up difficulty.

FPGA/ASICS will do the same thing eventually.
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April 12, 2012, 01:05:34 PM
 #33

I'm thinking of moving to 100% green sourced renewable electricity - http://www.goodenergy.co.uk/ - for my GLBSE listed mining company "Red Star Mining", "RSM" it only costs £0.135kWh thereby massively reducing the company's carbon footprint.

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April 12, 2012, 01:10:11 PM
 #34

FPGA's and eventually ASIC's, will make electricity costs irrelevant to mining.

No it won't.  For example 100 GH/s on mini rigs is ~5KW.  That is going to be a sizable cost electrical bill.   As the average mining farm grows larger and network grows larger the zero sum aspect comes into play.

I would say for the next 18-24 months power costs won't matter much but on a long enough time horizon they will.  Remember GPU are about 10x as efficient (in MH/W) then CPU were.  So when GPU mining first hit the network power costs really didn't matter either but all that "cheap" MH drove up difficulty.

FPGA/ASICS will do the same thing eventually.

For your given example of 100 GH/s on mini rigs (which is not the most power efficient rig), the purchase investment is around 60k.
So, for 3600 KWH a month (5KWH x 24 x 30 days), cost with 5 cents power is $180/mo., and $720/mo. with a 20 cents power cost.
That is a yearly cost over initial investment of 3.6% and 14.4% respectively. Shipping and customs duties may exceed by far that 10.8% difference.
And ASIC's will be 10x to 100x more power efficient.

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
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April 12, 2012, 01:35:14 PM
 #35

For your given example of 100 GH/s on mini rigs (which is not the most power efficient rig), the purchase investment is around 60k.
So, for 3600 KWH a month (5KWH x 24 x 30 days), cost with 5 cents power is $180/mo., and $720/mo. with a 20 cents power cost.
That is a yearly cost over initial investment of 3.6% and 14.4% respectively. Shipping and customs duties may exceed by far that 10.8% difference.
And ASIC's will be 10x to 100x more power efficient.

That is a 10% difference in operating costs.  Over say 3 years the higher energy cost operator will pay 30% more for the same amount of BTC.  The revenue on mining will always follow the costs of the lowest cost operators.  Everyone else will be under margin pressure.   That 10% is likely as "good as it gets" for high electrical cost miners.  The electrical cost is a lower % of total lifetime cost because capital cost of FPGA are so high.   In time ASICS will drive down the capital cost making electrical portion larger.

ASICs have higher NRE and negligible marginal unit costs (possibly as low as $10 per GH/s in 100K unit qtys).  An entity which has paid the NRE has already sunk millions of dollars.  The best thing for them to do is keep the retail price low so they can sell the maximum number of units driving out all competitors.  This is one reason why we only have 2 CPU major makers in the world (and AMD is barely clinging on).

With capital costs being a lower % of lifetime operating costs electrical rates once again become important.  Margins on mining will continue to contract as mining consolidates to lowest cost operators and the risk of Bitcoin failure declines.  The days of 500% ROI are never coming back.  If you gross profit margins (excluding operating costs like electricity is 30% then the difference between 4% and 15% electrical cost becomes much more

Like I said upthread this is on a much longer timeline.  In the next year or two as low cost GPU miners (like myself) cling on and becomes the marginal operators margins are likely to remain elevated to a point where a 30% difference in cost is negligible.  As GPU miners get pushed out and difficulty goes higher high cost FPGA miners become the new marginal miner in the same situation that high cost GPU miners are in today.

Kranke
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April 12, 2012, 08:55:33 PM
 #36

Wind. All the cost is upfront and the longer it runs the cheaper it gets.
Build yourself a nice 2kw unit with vertical helix blades and you only need a 40' tower.
Dan The Man
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April 13, 2012, 12:40:51 PM
 #37

Quebec is pretty cheap because of all the hydro. Iceland is also cheap because of geothermal. But the cost of living there and getting equipment there is much higher.

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May 04, 2013, 10:23:42 PM
 #38

Our electricity here is pretty expensive [San Jose, California], we pay close to $0.40/kW. With solar at around $2500/kw you may want to consider that.

Life: 10 years
Cost: $2500/kW
Assumed Maintenance: $500/kW
Total Cost: $3000/kW

Sun Light (Assumed): ~6 hours/day 330 days/year = 2000kW/year = (assuming your "ridiculous electricity" is $0.30/kW) $600/year so solar will basically half your cost based on those assumptions.
 
MadHasher
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May 04, 2013, 11:07:05 PM
 #39

FPGA's and eventually ASIC's, will make electricity costs irrelevant to mining.

This is not true.
MadHasher
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May 04, 2013, 11:15:27 PM
 #40

FPGA's and eventually ASIC's, will make electricity costs irrelevant to mining.

No it won't.  For example 100 GH/s on mini rigs is ~5KW.  That is going to be a sizable cost electrical bill.   As the average mining farm grows larger and network grows larger the zero sum aspect comes into play.

I would say for the next 18-24 months power costs won't matter much but on a long enough time horizon they will.  Remember GPU are about 10x as efficient (in MH/W) then CPU were.  So when GPU mining first hit the network power costs really didn't matter either but all that "cheap" MH drove up difficulty.

FPGA/ASICS will do the same thing eventually.

For your given example of 100 GH/s on mini rigs (which is not the most power efficient rig), the purchase investment is around 60k.
So, for 3600 KWH a month (5KWH x 24 x 30 days), cost with 5 cents power is $180/mo., and $720/mo. with a 20 cents power cost.
That is a yearly cost over initial investment of 3.6% and 14.4% respectively. Shipping and customs duties may exceed by far that 10.8% difference.
And ASIC's will be 10x to 100x more power efficient.


You sir, no not what you're talking about. You're showing more than 8% different in production costs and say that is irrelevant?!?

It doesn't matter how much ASICs cost as long as they're priced with not much margin from production costs from factory, since then you know that you'll probably value the hardware for 4 or 5 years in production. ASIC process shrink as slowed down a lot and when Bitcoin ASICs are close to the technological limitations, 4x the cost in electric power will make the difference between profit and loss. 100GH/s will soon the equivalent of someone mining with their gaming PC currently, not enough to make decent money each month.

When regular, professional mining operations turn use what you could amount to 1 or 2 TH/s, your $540 per month become $5000 or $10000.

I'm speechless at the amount of people who think that the prices being paid for ASICs currently (and what they mine per day) can hold for long.
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