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Author Topic: Re: GLBSE - TOS Discussion Thread.  (Read 1191 times)
El Cabron
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April 10, 2012, 01:35:21 AM
 #1

the server it runs on is based in the US

 Shocked

Yeah...

I will get out as soon as I can :/    I'm shocked so far the response I've gotten about setting up a new exchange. For everyone asking I'm going to quickly set up something for what I am operating now. But sooner or later something will be operational over tor. 100% anon, 100% regulation free. If there is anyone who can help me make this let me know. My team is backed up with other projects right now. Thanks.

Sorry El Cabron, you are banned from posting or sending personal messages on this forum.
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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622250.msg7030081#msg7030081
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Nefario
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April 10, 2012, 01:40:29 AM
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Yeah...

I will get out as soon as I can :/    I'm shocked so far the response I've gotten about setting up a new exchange. For everyone asking I'm going to quickly set up something for what I am operating now. But sooner or later something will be operational over tor. 100% anon, 100% regulation free. If there is anyone who can help me make this let me know. My team is backed up with other projects right now. Thanks.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75682.msg838527

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April 10, 2012, 01:48:01 AM
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Yeah...

I will get out as soon as I can :/    I'm shocked so far the response I've gotten about setting up a new exchange. For everyone asking I'm going to quickly set up something for what I am operating now. But sooner or later something will be operational over tor. 100% anon, 100% regulation free. If there is anyone who can help me make this let me know. My team is backed up with other projects right now. Thanks.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75682.msg838527
That server is located in the US as well.

Go ahead and try setting up an anoymous stock market over TOR and see how it will degrade into a cesspool for scammers because asset issuers cannot be trusted. Maybe you can convince the Silk Road owner to help you out. Grin

edit: Sorry for offtopic, could not resist.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
mila
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April 10, 2012, 02:00:05 AM
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i did not suggest starting a new exchange in .onion network, just move the existing one there to avoid issues with legal framework.

edit: Sorry for offtopic, could not resist.

how would you tell a mining company from a grow room from a distance?
they both burn electricity, if done smart, they are profitable
and the later can create bitcoin via the mentioned silk road.
just fake stats or don't publish them at all
and dividends can have material representation instead of a binary payout if needed
problem is they usually do not look for partners nor want a large web of trust
don't want to suggest that glbse could be to investors what silk road is to its users

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April 10, 2012, 02:10:49 AM
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Can a mod split this? It’s a really interesting discussion, and I want to continue. Reporting my post now.

1. At first, I agreed with you, but now I see how GLBSE makes price discovery and liquidity for shareholders possible. In giga’s case, his OTC sold bonds were clearly underpriced, and shareholders can already dump 1k or so into bids. It also makes dividend payment to lots of people easy.
2. Silk Road model will fail for GLBSE because anonymous asset issuers cannot be trusted for bigger/long-term operations. You spend 5 BTC on some weed vs. a few thousand on a shady venture. Guess which one will be more prone to scams?
3. You personally are not anonymous and law enforcement would own you regardless of TOR.

But do try this out, I want to see the range of scams it would attract and how you would deal with them.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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April 10, 2012, 02:14:34 AM
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Goat if you want to de-list and move off GLBSE, we will do everything in our power to be as helpful as we can.

If you can wait a couple of days I'll add the needed functionality to allow your shareholders to move their TYGRR* shares off in as easy and painless a fashion as possible.


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mila
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April 10, 2012, 02:19:13 AM
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Can a mod split this? It’s a really interesting discussion, and I want to continue. Reporting my post now.

You can't report your own post to the moderator, that doesn't make sense!
(at least I can't report mine ... / tried to have mine moved with your new thread ...)

I was thinking loud how to prevent OP ass from any kind of enforcement / intervention
best thing I could think of is plausible deny ability. not being anonymous to law enforcement
just making it hard to proof that it's A or B who is running the website.

edit
as for the legal framework, how is this different from a club or organization?
at last in UK bitcoin is not money, thus stuff denominated in bitcoin is not an investment vehicle?

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April 10, 2012, 02:22:24 AM
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Thank you for your offer Nefario! Will you let other operations do the same?

Of course, why not?

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April 10, 2012, 02:26:01 AM
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Thank you for your offer Nefario! Will you let other operations do the same?

afaik btcsyn issuer discussed the option to have dump of shareholders as a plan B if this site would go tits up and it was promised to assist with whatever data would be available to connect with shareholders
it was back then in 1.0 glbse without email, most probable scenario was to request public keys and numbers of shares held to be able to verify identity using the crypto part of old exchange and know the shares held in that account at the given moment

i have no fresh rumors from 2.0 glbse era.

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April 10, 2012, 03:03:17 AM
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Has anyone looked at the potential jail time Nefario faces if he is arrested? Or is it just a fine? I really do not know. Any lawyers around?


Why would Nefario end up in jail? Is the hammer manufacturer liable for damages if a house built with his product collapses? Of course not. GLBSE is a tool, nothing more.

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April 10, 2012, 03:49:32 AM
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Only comes into play if the government starts treating BTC as equal to reserve currency. I think they'd at least need to pass a law or publish an executive branch legal finding. IMO, it's the tax man you have to worry about.

Now if anyone involved in this maintains a financial certification or title, that might change their personal risk situation.
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April 10, 2012, 04:28:55 AM
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Now if anyone involved in this maintains a financial certification or title, that might change their personal risk situation.

Not quite sure what you mean.

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April 10, 2012, 05:52:53 AM
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Now if anyone involved in this maintains a financial certification or title, that might change their personal risk situation.

Not quite sure what you mean.

all sorts of fiduciary licensed personnel like auditors, accountants, actuaries, licensed financial counselors ...
and maybe traders as well. they have somewhere probably a clause about code of conduct and must comply in private with the stuff that they do professionally. if they get caught playing with bitcoins, depending what kind of game, they might be in trouble

this is how I understood the 'financial certification'
i think there are too many and not applicable to all of them but there might be overlaps (with consequences for folks involved)
but they would know best or at least better

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April 10, 2012, 07:05:18 AM
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Exactly what I was referring to mila, some people are subject to conduct codes through various titles, professional memberships, or regulatory rules. It's important to keep in mind obligations can suddenly "stretch" if something is getting a lot of bad publicity.
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April 10, 2012, 07:18:09 AM
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Exactly what I was referring to mila, some people are subject to conduct codes through various titles, professional memberships, or regulatory rules. It's important to keep in mind obligations can suddenly "stretch" if something is getting a lot of bad publicity.

Having worked for a regulator for awhile I would say this is a definite concern for some people.

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April 10, 2012, 07:46:57 AM
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Exactly what I was referring to mila, some people are subject to conduct codes through various titles, professional memberships, or regulatory rules. It's important to keep in mind obligations can suddenly "stretch" if something is getting a lot of bad publicity.

Having worked for a regulator for awhile I would say this is a definite concern for some people.

but (how) should it be included in TOS? i mean it's their personal responsibility to check what they're doing and to comply with their commitments and work induced constraints
(and i noticed them they know what they can / can not do and act accordingly)

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April 10, 2012, 08:00:07 AM
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Exactly what I was referring to mila, some people are subject to conduct codes through various titles, professional memberships, or regulatory rules. It's important to keep in mind obligations can suddenly "stretch" if something is getting a lot of bad publicity.

Having worked for a regulator for awhile I would say this is a definite concern for some people.

but (how) should it be included in TOS? i mean it's their personal responsibility to check what they're doing and to comply with their commitments and work induced constraints
(and i noticed them they know what they can / can not do and act accordingly)

I'd say that would fall under 4 and 5 of our current terms. It's not our responsibility to ensure they are complying with whatever regs, and its up to them to be aware of the risks of using the platform, which loss of professional standing would fall under in my opinion.

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April 10, 2012, 08:40:18 AM
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Does GLBSE comply with the Securities Exchange Act Of 1934? Since the server is inside the USA it seems that it should from my limited understanding. Can one of the lawyers representing GLBSE get on here and let us know their thoughts?



if sgornick is in this thread he might have some relevant information with regard to the recent US Crowdfunding bill. (I haven't paid much attention, just that it seems <1M$ can be raised from the public as of early April, without certain securities constraints.)

As nefario is working for bitcoinconsultancy, why isn't glbse.com running in the same datacenter as momentoVPS(sp?)/intersango


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April 10, 2012, 09:03:44 AM
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So far bitcoin has not been explicitly regulated, so legally it kind of falls in “monopoly money” or “play money” category. There are many games that emulate otherwise illegal activity. If we explicitly state that scamming is admissible on GLBSE, than owners and operators are legally covered. However, I do not think this is what creators of GLBSE have envisioned.

Honestly, I am surprised that something like GLBSE works at all. It is just that when an honest entrepreneur lists an asset on GLBSE it is mixed with shady schemes under same roof. In effect buyers expect enormous return on investment. Hence, good assets are sold cheep. This should lead to negative selection; people who can create and operate a successful venture will avoid GLBSE because they do not want their dividends to be averaged out with nonexistent dividends from scammers. Pretty much it will leave mostly scammers and people who cannot gain funding in any other way (e.g. funding for illegal ventures).

The only way to get to scammers is to physically get hold on them. It is necessary because network identities are cheep when compared with amounts that cross GLBSE (eg. on coming IPOs want to rise 1400 BTC or even 10000 BTC).

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April 10, 2012, 01:36:16 PM
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100% anon, 100% regulation free. If there is anyone who can help me make this let me know. My team is backed up with other projects right now. Thanks.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75054.0
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