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Author Topic: Libertarianism and interventionnism  (Read 3536 times)
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David Latapie
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August 30, 2014, 09:09:55 PM
 #61

Wow i knew your government was crazy but that's a special kind of crazy. Next they will be forbidding you to interbreed with people with the wrong skin color. Gotta preserve that french heritage. Cheesy

We can't see movie not translated in French, media have a number of French subsided "art" to diffuse, my government plan to prevent netflix from coming here. English class is with funny teacher to do nothing or speak about American history in French. Even in Paris nothing is write in English in the street...

And the more funny is the government funded agency that translate "e mail" to "courriel" or "hash tag" to "mot dièse" even if nobody use their fucking word.

And your far leftist or rightist say that English language is some imperialist conspiracy...
Subsidised art is one of the reason why the artistic culture in France is particularly vivid (especially cinema). We all know that art doesn't make you a linving (unless once you're dead... humm). Sure, they're many abuses but on this one, I won't follow you.
As for the English teacher, it really depends on the teacher. I've had great and not so great teacher.
And I find it completely normal that things are not written in English in Paris (btw, this is "written", not "write"). Highly touristic place have double or even quadruple translation, mostly like everywhere else in the non-English-speaking world.
Yeah, Académie française is an old lady that should take care of something else than trying to be young. Or it does, trying better.

For Jungian and Anon136: French-bashing is a pretty popular sport in France. Frenchmen (and Frenchwoman) are known to complaint a lot. Foreign citizens established in France often say "stop complaining, you don't know how lucky you are".
* David Latapie doesn't like French self-bashing.
(I did not intend to have it red, I forgot about this formatting option).

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Jungian
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August 30, 2014, 09:13:27 PM
 #62

Quote
(in fact, they were quite common, where noblemen had rights to brides).
This is an urban legend (Braveheart perpetuated it).

Thank you for pointing that out. Your link however does not state it's a total urban legend, but may have happened.
Anyway similar practices certainly happened.

"Instances of the practice have been observed elsewhere. As late as the nineteenth century, some Kurdish chieftains (khafirs) in Western Armenia benefited from "the right of the first night"- From the same link


If you agree with one, it's no moral reason why you shouldn't agree with the other as they imply the same thing. That people have no right to their own body and property.
As a transhumanist, I strongly agree.

So, if people don't own their bodies. Who does?
Do you also, following that train of logic, also think that they don't their actions and therefor can not be held responsible for it?

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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August 30, 2014, 09:18:42 PM
 #63

Ssubsidised art is one of the reason why the artistic culture in France is particularly vivid (especially cinema). We all know that art doesn't make you a linving (unless once you're dead... humm). Sure, they're many abuses but on this one, I won't follow you.

How do you know that this is the reasons? Subsidized culture is commonplace in many countries.

What you aresaying is that the french art culture produce things that are such in the nature that no one willingly pays for them and they have to be payed for by extracting money elsewhere and be made to please the bureaucrats who hand out the money.

Of course, the same people get very powerful and can influence the popular opinion that this is the "good art".

This of course also has the side effect of driving out competition from the market. If one type of art gets the money, this is where people flock instead of reinventing themselves to compete for the market share.

Quote
For Jungian and Anon136: French-bashing is a pretty popular sport in France. Frenchmen (and Frenchwoman) are known to complaint a lot. Foreign citizens established in France often say "stop complaining, you don't know how lucky you are".
* David Latapie doesn't like French self-bashing.

It's not just the french who suffer from this, let me tell you how bad it is in Sweden Wink

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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August 30, 2014, 09:20:11 PM
 #64

1.Ssubsidised art is one of the reason why the artistic culture in France is particularly vivid (especially cinema). We all know that art doesn't make you a linving (unless once you're dead... humm). Sure, they're many abuses but on this one, I won't follow you.

2.As for the English teacher, it really depends on the teacher. I've had great and not so great teacher.

3.And I find it completely normal that things are not written in English in Paris (btw, this is "written", not "write"). Highly touristic place have double or even quadruple translation, mostly like everywhere else in the non-English-speaking world.

4.Yeah, Académie française is an old lady that should take care of something else than trying to be young. Or it does, trying better.

1.Do we need to subside art ? Good for the libertarian vs interventionism debate  Wink But you know, art subside are a way politician give billion per year to their friend and often to produce movie nobody watch...

2.I go in an average countryside public school and English class was just fun time... It's not a secret French have a very bad level in English and most children go to public school...

3.You find normal it's forbidden by law ? Like movie ? And the anti-netflix crusade ?

4.This shit should be closed, language is a bottom up process... another libertarian debate  Wink

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August 30, 2014, 09:21:10 PM
 #65

If you agree with one, it's no moral reason why you shouldn't agree with the other as they imply the same thing. That people have no right to their own body and property.
Quote from: David Latapie
As a transhumanist, I strongly agree.
So, if people don't own their bodies. Who does?
I must have expressed myself badly. I strongly agree with you. My body is mine, not some god or whatever.

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August 30, 2014, 09:22:03 PM
 #66

If you agree with one, it's no moral reason why you shouldn't agree with the other as they imply the same thing. That people have no right to their own body and property.
Quote from: David Latapie
As a transhumanist, I strongly agree.
So, if people don't own their bodies. Who does?
I must have expressed myself badly. I strongly agree with you. My body is mine, not some god or whatever.

Ah, good! I thought you disagreed with me.

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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August 30, 2014, 09:26:09 PM
Last edit: September 03, 2014, 12:02:28 PM by David Latapie
 #67

3.You find normal it's forbidden by law ?
No. I would find it normal OTOH, that it is mandatory to have a French version and probably also that the French version is prominent.
Now that I think about it, French airports have huge ads in English.

4.This shit should be closed, language is a bottom up process... another libertarian debate  Wink
No debate here, you're preaching the choir Smiley
Although I must say I also am a proponent of the linguistic relativity (better known as the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis) and a proponent of diversity.

that is fascinating. i had no idea about any of this. thanks for teaching me a little bit about your culture.
Well, this is actually pretty widespread out of US and not France-specific at all. US citizen Andrew Tannenbaum (Minix, the inspiration for Linux) said this when he announced that he is behind electoral-vote.com: "I live abroad and you don't have a clue how bad a reputation the US in the world." (I could not google the exact quote).

If you agree with one, it's no moral reason why you shouldn't agree with the other as they imply the same thing. That people have no right to their own body and property.
Quote from: David Latapie
As a transhumanist, I strongly agree.
So, if people don't own their bodies. Who does?
I must have expressed myself badly. I strongly agree with you. My body is mine, not some god or whatever.

Ah, good! I thought you disagreed with me.
Just found this Smiley
http://anarcho-transhumanism.net/what-is-anarcho-transhumanism/

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August 30, 2014, 09:31:38 PM
 #68

1.No. I would find it normal OTOH, that it is mandatory to have a French version and probably also that the French version is prominent.
Now that I think about it, French airports have huge ads in English.

2.No debate here, you're preaching the choir Smiley
Although I must say I also am a proponent of the linguistic relativity (better known as the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis) and a proponent of diversity.

1.Why have a mandatory French version ? Translation cost money, it reduce the amount of movie French can see. So you don't want Netflix or French TV purpose English movies ?

2.I'm an language utilitarianist, i admire what the north Europe country do to teach English very young to their children so they are fine with the modern world.

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August 30, 2014, 09:32:52 PM
 #69


This is what really attracts me to anarchism (although I feel that label may be more a burden. The idea that you don't need to bring in violence where it's unwarranted doesn't need a big name like that). You do not need to subscribe to any ideology or ideas other than that you own your own body (and by extension have right over what that body create). To me, it doesn't matter if you want to work in a commune or top-down big corp.

All ideas are free to flourish or fail on their own merits and people will subscribe to what suits them best.

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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August 30, 2014, 09:37:07 PM
 #70


2.I'm an language utilitarianist, i admire what the north Europe country do to teach English very young to their children so they are fine with the modern world.

Mostly, it's an unintentional consequence of being a small country. For example, with such a small market, we couldn't afford to put voice actors on every movie. Instead they were released with subtitles. This proved a great learning experience because you hear the actors and read what they say at the same time.

Getting to interact with a foreign language in a positive and voluntary is how you learn a new language, not by forcing the kids to sit in front of a white board for hours trying to bend grammar. So I wouldn't credit the school system much for this.

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
David Latapie
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August 30, 2014, 09:44:44 PM
 #71

1.Why have a mandatory French version ? Translation cost money, it reduce the amount of movie French can see. So you don't want Netflix or French TV purpose English movies ?
I'm baffled you even ask, this is France. We can be proud of our history and our language, And don't tell me if would not negatively impact the French language. Your question is a loaded question. I don't know the story about Netflix, but this is France, you speak French. Of course you should be encouraged to know a second language (EU policy is three languages per European citizen).

This reminds me of the famous picture of a pupil asking his teacher "why is it bad to kill people?" and the teacher being unable to answer. I am in the same position there.

2.I'm an language utilitarianist, i admire what the north Europe country do to teach English very young to their children so they are fine with the modern world.
I agree with this but they still have their own language first and foremost.

Language is symbol, (sumbolon, "what which unites", opposed diabolon what which divides - and now this explains a lot of things about the Devil in the Bible). A nation (different from "a country") is united by something that transcend petty opposition. A language is such a thing.

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August 30, 2014, 09:45:41 PM
 #72

1.Mostly, it's an unintentional consequence of being a small country. For example, with such a small market, we couldn't afford to put voice actors on every movie. Instead they were released with subtitles.

2.This proved a great learning experience because you hear the actors and read what they say at the same time.

3.Getting to interact with a foreign language in a positive and voluntary is how you learn a new language, not by forcing the kids to sit in front of a white board for hours trying to bend grammar. So I wouldn't credit the school system much for this.

1.I know, being a small country with a language that nobody will ever learn if you don't torture him help a lot. And in your country people don't fear the world and want to learn what happen everywhere more than here i think.

2.But in your country this is not forbidden by law, so i still blame my government  Cheesy

3.Sure, was so happy to learn English (it's not finish yet), but i started late and i would prefer have more serious English class here like in everywhere else in Europe. English is 2 hours a week from 14 to 18 then one hour a week. Here school program are build by a central authority and they apply in every public school. I have hear you have more education freedom than us.

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August 30, 2014, 09:54:50 PM
 #73

1.I'm baffled you even ask, this is France. We can be proud of our history and our language, And don't tell me if would not negatively impact the French language. Your question is a loaded question.

2.I don't know the story about Netflix, but this is France, you speak French.

1.Yes, this is France, the country that created human right (and then they inspired the US constitution amendment), was one of the more libertarian country before WW1, was a great empire and one of the most competitive country of the world for a long time but now people fear so much the future... I'm proud of the history of France but the actual trend is very bad, we go to an Argentina scenario.

There isn't "good language", the good language is the language people want to speak.

2.Netflix story was pretty priceless, netflix don't want to subside French movie so ISP won't include the netflix service and only people who can build an HTPC will use netflix.

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August 30, 2014, 10:26:02 PM
Last edit: September 03, 2014, 12:03:48 PM by David Latapie
 #74

This proved a great learning experience because you hear the actors and read what they say at the same time.
We have subtitles too. For a large amount of movies, you can choose between dubbed (with original voice off, not like in Spain) or subtitled - French subtitles or original language subtitles. I prefer original language subtitles and I agree this is a great experience both for enjoying the movie and for learning the language.

like in everywhere else in Europe. English is 2 hours a week from 14 to 18 then one hour a week. Here school program are build by a central authority and they apply in every public school. I have hear you have more education freedom than us.
Please stop bashing. I've been in several European countries, I talked with people routinely working in English with non natives. And I can tell you this: we are pretty well positionned when it comes to speak English.

But a Frenchman who doesn't complain is not really a Frenchman Smiley "Les Français sont râleurs". Even the American say that we are "judgemental" (always eager to complain).

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August 31, 2014, 09:15:54 AM
 #75

Nope ! And i'm proud to be critical toward my government  Wink

Ranked 35th out of 60 in this year's EF EPI, France’s English proficiency skills are declining, according to data gathered on over 150,000 French adults between 2007 and 2012. France is one of only eight countries whose proficiency scores have dropped by more than two points, although in absolute terms the decline is slight. What makes the situation more remarkable is that most of Europe has either improved or already demonstrates consistently high English proficiency. France currently has the weakest English skills in Europe.

http://www.ef.edu/epi/spotlight/france/

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August 31, 2014, 09:21:49 AM
 #76

This proved a great learning experience because you hear the actors and read what they say at the same time.
We have subtitles too. For a large amount of movies, you can choose between dubbed (with original voice off, not like in Spain) or subtitled - French subtitles or original language subtitles. I prefer original language subtitles and I agree this is a great experience both for enjoying the movie and for learning the language.

This has probably changed around the world now, but I think we got the head start when this was the norm for every movie. I doubt there were movies in the French cinema 30 years undubbed right?

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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August 31, 2014, 10:16:04 AM
 #77

Nope ! And i'm proud to be critical toward my government  Wink

Ranked 35th out of 60 in this year's EF EPI, France’s English proficiency skills are declining, according to data gathered on over 150,000 French adults between 2007 and 2012. France is one of only eight countries whose proficiency scores have dropped by more than two points, although in absolute terms the decline is slight. What makes the situation more remarkable is that most of Europe has either improved or already demonstrates consistently high English proficiency. France currently has the weakest English skills in Europe.

http://www.ef.edu/epi/spotlight/france/
Thanks, I learnt something.

This has probably changed around the world now, but I think we got the head start when this was the norm for every movie. I doubt there were movies in the French cinema 30 years undubbed right?
No idea, would be worth investigating.

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August 31, 2014, 06:55:26 PM
 #78

Just a sidenote, not the main topic of this thread, but this:

The idea that you can have a legal entity that is other then the persons who commit the deeds is laughable at best.

There is actually a very big benefit from the fact that a company is a separate legal entity. For example, this means that the shareholders of the company aren't personally responsible a loan their company takes. If the company cannot pay back the loan, it will go bankrupt, but the shareholders don't have to personally pay it.

Now, of course some will abuse the system (e.g. take loans which they do not intend to repay). This is a risk the lender takes, and will adjust the interest rate of the loan to reflect this risk.

As long as the majority of people act honorably, the system is beneficial. Why? It allows people to take more risk, so it is easier to start a new company, to try out different ideas. Thus we have more startups and enterpreneurs. A lot of ideas (=companies) fail even if risk-taking is encouraged. You can't often know in advance if an idea is good or not.

When people do criminal things, of course those people need to be personally responsible for that, and not the company. But that is a separate issue.

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September 01, 2014, 06:46:13 PM
 #79

It's ok to intervene sometimes, because in such a system humans search 100%profit.
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September 01, 2014, 07:00:08 PM
 #80

It's ok to intervene sometimes, because in such a system humans search 100%profit.

So 90% profit is ok ? How do we count that ? no sense.

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