Currency where everyone in the world receives an equal amount. Discuss.

[world-dollar]

Hi,

Just posting to ask what your thoughts are on the idea behind World Dollar (http://www.world-dollar.com/what-is-world-dollar/), i.e. to give money to all people equally? Will it secure massive, global acceptance by people, business, etc. in your view?

In your view, is this a fad, or the greatest threat to the status quo (debt-based fiat currencies) there has ever been? 10,000 WLD is now trading for 5.04 USD (or 0.01 BTC) on Ripple trade, which implies a total market cap of $35 billion, and the media is about to pick up on this.

Please let us know your thoughts. It would be great to hear from the bitcointalk community, and hopefully many of you are already claiming your World dollars and looking to trade.

Cheers,

Mark (World Dollar Foundation)

[1715100054]

1715100054

[1715100054]

1715100054

[Ximp]

I think World-Dollar will totally revolutionize the financial landscape as we know it. The team behind it is amazing and so connected! Soon the human race will reach a level 3 civilization because of the total equality that World-Dollar is sure to provide. I can't believe nobody tried this revolutionary and groundbreaking idea. Bravo, sir. Soon we will all be one and ascend to a higher plane.

[Propulsion]

I think World-Dollar will totally revolutionize the financial landscape as we know it. The team behind it is amazing and so connected! Soon the human race will reach a level 3 civilization because of the total equality that World-Dollar is sure to provide. I can't believe nobody tried this revolutionary and groundbreaking idea. Bravo, sir. Soon we will all be one and ascend to a higher plane.

They did, it was called socialism; it failed.

[kelsey]

Just posting to ask what your thoughts are on the idea behind World Dollar (http://www.world-dollar.com/what-is-world-dollar/), i.e. to give money to all people equally?

Instant fail the moment you use verified facebook accounts to claim (well among other ways to game),. you do know you can buy packets of 100-10000 verified fb accounts (that look as genuine as any, friends and all)?

[devphp]

Even if there existed a good method to distribute equally to everyone (this is not possible), a number of years later most of the money would still end up in the hands of a few, because all people don't have equal abilities to manage money. This idea is utopia.

[world-dollar]

I think World-Dollar will totally revolutionize the financial landscape as we know it. The team behind it is amazing and so connected! Soon the human race will reach a level 3 civilization because of the total equality that World-Dollar is sure to provide. I can't believe nobody tried this revolutionary and groundbreaking idea. Bravo, sir. Soon we will all be one and ascend to a higher plane.

They did, it was called socialism; it failed.

The objective is not to bring "total equality" to the world, what made you think that? The objective is to provide a currency that is virtually guaranteed global acceptance, due to the equal distribution, rather than equal outcomes. The political ideology behind this is libertarian, rather than socialist. We believe in a currency that is not subject to manipulation by central authorities, arbitrarily benefitting its producers (and typically, first recipients) at the expense of all others. Also, money needs to be a good serving as a medium of exchange, rather than being based on debt. To understand why a debt-based monetary system is fundamentally flawed, read this section: http://www.world-dollar.com/debt-based-monetary-system-debunked/

[world-dollar]

Just posting to ask what your thoughts are on the idea behind World Dollar (http://www.world-dollar.com/what-is-world-dollar/), i.e. to give money to all people equally?

Instant fail the moment you use verified facebook accounts to claim (well among other ways to game),. you do know you can buy packets of 100-10000 verified fb accounts (that look as genuine as any, friends and all)?

Kelsey, go ahead and try to game the system. Good luck. In virtually all cases of issued World dollars, Coin Autonomy (the first issuer) has also required a private ID, whether provided by Miicard or by a photocopy of another proof of ID (passport/ driving license/ ID card).

In addition, there is an insurance system in place, read this from http://www.coinautonomy.com :

What ensures that Coin Autonomy issues World dollars responsibly?
We are contractually bound by the agreement we signed with the World Dollar Foundation; we are fined 10,000 World dollars per every fake or duplicate claiming of World dollars discovered. This fine is payable to the World Dollar Foundation, who then proceed to destroy the 10,000 World dollars. If too many fake claims are discovered, we cannot continue to issue World dollars.

[world-dollar]

Even if there existed a good method to distribute equally to everyone (this is not possible), a number of years later most of the money would still end up in the hands of a few, because all people don't have equal abilities to manage money. This idea is utopia.

As said in previous post, there is no intention for there to be equal outcomes . This is not a socialist project. Socialism does not actually treat all people equally. It is a very widespread belief that inequalities in money balances are justifiable; it is free, voluntary exchange of goods and services that we value, derived by productive efforts.

This is why we only issue 10,000 World dollars to everyone once, rather than more than once. An equal outcomes standard is a very poor basis for a monetary system, and so we took care to avoid it. Money is, after all, a tool of capitalism, being a tool of trade in a system with private property rights. In a totally pure socialist/ communist system, there would actually be no need for money at all.

Regarding the other point you raised, what makes you think it is impossible to distribute to everyone equally? You think it is impossible to identify people?

[devphp]

So what's the purpose of this enterprise then if not an attempt for socialism? Do you know that people only value what they have to work for and airdropping money on them does no good?

Well, it's impossible to distribute equally, if only because 5 bln people out of 7 living on the Earth don't have access to Internet.

[clemahieu]

It doesn't seem technically feasible regardless of philosophical goals.  Figuring out if someone on the web is a human or a bot is hard enough, I haven't heard of a proposed scheme to figure out if someone's a unique human.

On their site it looks like they're distributing via an email address and one email address does not map to one human.  I couldn't find any technical details about how they plan to distribute.

Edit:
It looks like they also uniquely map to social media accounts which leaves out a large portion of people who don't have them and doesn't address the difficulty of finding shell social media accounts.

[world-dollar]

So what's the purpose of this enterprise then if not an attempt for socialism? Do you know that people only value what they have to work for and airdropping money on them does no good?

Well, it's impossible to distribute equally, if only because 5 bln people out of 7 living on the Earth don't have access to Internet.

It is not at all an attempt at socialism. I think many of you need to look up the word "socialism" to see what it actually means. It is an economic system  characterised by social ownership of the means of production. Nothing about World Dollar suggests there should be social ownership, rather than private ownership, of the means of production. Also, you should take a look at what the World Dollar website has to say on this topic (http://www.world-dollar.com/what-is-world-dollar/):

What is the problem with using Equal Outcomes as the basis for issuing money?

Money balance inequalities derived by means of free exchange can be justified. One profits from offering valuable goods and services, derived by productive efforts, to one's fellow human beings. Money subject to an equal outcomes standard would result in those with relatively lower money balances benefiting at the expense of those with relatively higher money balances. 

Money subject to an equal outcomes standard would, therefore, be widely rejected, principally because it does not truly treat people equally, as per the equal opportunity standard.

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Regarding "airdropping" money (same source):

What is the Problem With Profiting From Money Production?

First, it should be understood that the market economy works under any nominal quantity of money and associated price level. It is a myth that a growing economy needs a growing supply of money. Any changes in the demand for money can be met by changes in its price (i.e. purchasing power), meaning any additional supply of money is in itself totally unnecessary.

The problem with profiting from money production, then, is that the money producer necessarily benefits at the expense of the rest of society. The production of money is not really a valuable service in itself, making it somewhat perverse that it should be so lucrative. This is contradictory to what is usually the case in the market economy, wherein one profits from offering valuable goods and services.

This is not to say that it is impossible for money with profiting money producers to be valuable, particularly if the fair "process" of the free market is involved, meaning no-one is artificially blocked from producing the money. It is just to say that it may struggle to compete with the level of social acceptance that comes with absolute equal treatment, meaning no-one is left feeling with a sense of injustice (from "losing out" to the money producer).

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Regarding it being "impossible" to distribute equally, the fact that many people do not have access to the internet now does not mean that they will not have access to the internet in future. In addition, it could technically be issued in "paper" form in the meantime; if someone applies to the network (http://www.world-dollar.com/the-network/) with a good idea and operational plan for this, they will be approved.

[world-dollar]

It doesn't seem technically feasible regardless of philosophical goals.  Figuring out if someone on the web is a human or a bot is hard enough, I haven't heard of a proposed scheme to figure out if someone's a unique human.

On their site it looks like they're distributing via an email address and one email address does not map to one human.  I couldn't find any technical details about how they plan to distribute.

Edit:
It looks like they also uniquely map to social media accounts which leaves out a large portion of people who don't have them and doesn't address the difficulty of finding shell social media accounts.

It is perfectly feasible. Identity verification already plays a prominent role in the use of nearly all financial services today. There does not need to be 100% accuracy, 99.9% is fine, so long as there is a system that enforces that the issuer guilty of having issued World dollars in the case of fake/ duplicate claiming is liable for damages. It is effectively an insurance system. All issuers have to sign a contract to this extent with the World Dollar Foundation. We're going to provide more details to the public about how this works in due course, but for now this overview (and details on Coin Autonomy's website) should be sufficient.

There is no distribution via email address. Coin Autonomy, our first issuer, typically requires a private ID (Miicard, Passport, Driving License, ID card), with Miicard being in conjunction with a public ID (Facebook, Linkedin, etc.).

There is nothing exceptional, technically speaking, for how ID verification works for now. Perhaps the most reliable, advanced way would be biometrics (unique biological identifiers such as fingerprints, DNA etc.), but this would no doubt touch a nerve to those angry or even outraged by this invasion of privacy. However, it is clear that if there are clear convenience benefits to be had from biometric technology, then people will start using them. A case in point is the iPhone 5S’ fingerprint scanner feature (called ‘Touch ID’ by Apple). Despite being released after information about the NSA’s various surveillance programs were first disclosed, most industry insiders and reviewers were cautious but welcomed the introduction of Touch ID, as it should encourage more people to securely lock their iPhones and increase acceptance of biometric verification technologies. In fact, the security of Touch ID was a bigger concern than privacy issues as it was proven to be possible to bypass its security features and gain unauthorised access to the phone. If technologies such as this becomes more widespread and secure in the future, then this could be another way of verifying ID.

[Ultros]

The cost of distribution (verifying identity, preventing corruption) is so high even the most elaborated dictatorships never succeed to make a proper one. It's an utopia, and a bad one, since equality is not a guaranty for fairness. I don't see anything in your system that decrease that cost or make the purpose more attractive.

[world-dollar]

The cost of distribution (verifying identity, preventing corruption) is so high even the most elaborated dictatorships never succeed to make a proper one. It's an utopia, and a bad one, since equality is not a guaranty for fairness. I don't see anything in your system that decrease that cost or make the purpose more attractive.

The cost of distribution is generally low, but it must be understood that we do not forbid private issuers from charging people for using their services. This is free, voluntary exchange. Yes, it diverges away from absolute equal issuance, but if people are happy to accept this in order to receive their World dollars, there is no problem. If people don't want to pay, they might want to wait, as it is expected that the cost of distribution will fall and quality of distribution will rise in the long run (in line with the competitive nature of the World Dollar network). Alternatively, issuers may operate on a non-profit (or even, charitable) basis.

However, it is expected that that a large proportion of issuers will actually also be responsible for the payments platforms that people use, and so they can subsidise the cost of issuing with the idea that they can instead profit from e.g. charging commissions on transactions. Indeed, we are close to finalising a deal with a mobile payments company that wishes to operate on this basis.

There is nothing "utopian" about this, and it is impossible to argue that there could possibly be a "fairer" standard for money, a social convention, than "equal" distribution. Not understanding this is the single biggest factor that has let down bitcoin, badly. And this is precisely why it should not come as any surprise to you that World Dollar will go way, way beyond what Bitcoin has managed to achieve (if it has not done so already - the market appears to be pricing World Dollar at 6x the market cap of Bitcoin).

[world-dollar]

Out of interest, is there anyone on bitcointalk who has any positive thoughts about World Dollar?

In particular, we need more people to join the World Dollar Foundation (http://www.world-dollar.com/the-foundation/), or to contribute their services to the World Dollar Network (http://www.world-dollar.com/the-network/)

Please note that my earlier comments on bitcoin were not meant as a criticism of it. Bitcoin has been an important breakthrough, and as free market money (as opposed to fiat money) it does have voluntary acceptance by the market, and can indeed continue to be valuable, even if World Dollar ends up having a greater global impact.

Cheers,

Mark (Member of World Dollar Foundation)