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Author Topic: Electric utilities are blowing cost of energy theft out of proportion  (Read 843 times)
sana8410
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September 01, 2014, 05:56:31 PM
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Looking into the matter further, I am seeing a lot of similarities between software piracy and electricity "theft".

When you look at the amount of electricity flowing in those power wires up in the sky, this is what it might look like. Of course, utility companies are itching to sell more power during the low use.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-year-1.969837

It looks like cost of theft is blown way out of proportion as a justification for their rates and war on drugs. Unlike theft of durable goods, they aren't always real cost.

If you tag along a paying customer on a bus without paying the fare and you get off with him, they will claim you "cost" them the fare, but the incremental cost is so small that it is not measurable. It is along the same idea as someone downloading a software cost the developer their asking retail price.

The above is only true if it was completely full and you caused a fare paying customer to get turned away.

"BC Hydro says the theft of electricity — mostly from marijuana grow operations — now costs $100 million every year.

Hydro spokesperson Cindy Verschoor said that's a significant increase from the estimated $30-million revenue loss from electricity theft in 2006, the last time Hydro calculated the loss."

So, who is it really costing if they're only sipping from HYDRO's power during low usage? Especially if they're tapping into medium voltage with their own transproducer without taking away capacity from anyone. I somehow doubt the hydro's paying anyone for the use of water and it's not actually costing them anything for the kWh taken. This is as opposed to plugging into someone's generator and causing the throttle to open up more and consume more gas that they have to pay for.

A convincing tattle meter protest YouTube video that gets a large number of hydro's customer to set the thermostat in the house to switch on at exactly 6PM, switch on every thing in the house for 5 minutes from 6PM to 6:05PM and shift as much of power use to between 5 and 7PM while avoiding use between 10PM and 4AM in will cost them a lot more than all the theft

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-year-1.969837

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdet...han-you-think/

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September 01, 2014, 06:51:59 PM
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There is a finite amount of electricity produced. Therefor if someone used electricity but does not pay for it then the electric company needed to pay to produce the electricity but did not receive revenue for it. 
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September 01, 2014, 07:11:02 PM
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(A lot of rubbish to try to justify free-loading on other peoples' resources)

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September 01, 2014, 08:55:59 PM
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What if the bus is full (in your analogy), someone not paying for a bus fare would prevent a paying customer from getting on the bus and well paying.

The same concept is true with electricity. If the electric company is selling all the electricity it is providing then it will not sell it to someone who is paying for the product.
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September 01, 2014, 11:12:32 PM
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While I do think electric companies are an unregulated malfeasance that involves cronyism with state officials I don't think your bus analogy is a good one.  In you analogy the freeloader would be hitching up his RV to the back end of the bus for a cross country tow.

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September 01, 2014, 11:53:53 PM
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While I do think electric companies are an unregulated malfeasance that involves cronyism with state officials I don't think your bus analogy is a good one.  In you analogy the freeloader would be hitching up his RV to the back end of the bus for a cross country tow.
Electric and utility companies are actually among the most regulated companies in the US. As a result their margins are very thin and have very little room for error when it comes to running their business. Any losses (caused by theft or otherwise) would very much affect their ability to continue staying in business.
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September 02, 2014, 10:05:33 AM
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The oil and gas cartel blow most things out of proportion so long as it enables them to rape the consumer ..just like the liberals do with 'climate change', "War on Women' etc.

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September 02, 2014, 10:34:04 AM
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This is a drop in the bucket that they are making a mountain out of
Sounds like another way to scam people out of money by making units that they can then tack on to the prices they sell at and maybe even get a cutback from the company that produces them.
Whatever did happen to smart meters?

ALSO HAH Cutback and Fire Hazard!
Letter: Smart meters may be cause of some house fires

http://www.kelownacapnews.com/opinion/letters/273483131.html

To the editor:

It’s a shame that Fortis BC has not even blinked at the findings of the government of Saskatchewan that smart meters are causing fires. Saskatchewan has since recalled all the province’s smart meters after multiple fires, and the city of Medicine Hat, Alberta has placed a moratorium on any future smart meters.

The spin doctors working for BC Hydro and other utilities are explaining this away as being due to a particular meter manufacturer; however, smart meter fires have been reported all over the world and with virtually no difference in the manufacturers.

BC Hydro has done a good job of covering up fires being caused by their meters since they have been installed over the last few years. Just recently, a responding firefighter told CHEK news in Langford B.C. (Sooke Lake) that the hydro meter was on fire when they responded to a house fire call. BC Hydro has since denied the meter was the cause.

Hardly surprising.

With Fortis BC about to install smart meters in Kelowna, can we expect the same spin if and when the installations result in house fires? Fortis BC should do like Medicine Hat and institute a moratorium.

Sources cited:

http://www.cheknews.ca/fire-sooke-lake-road/

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September 02, 2014, 12:24:33 PM
 #9

Looking into the matter further, I am seeing a lot of similarities between software piracy and electricity "theft".

When you look at the amount of electricity flowing in those power wires up in the sky, this is what it might look like. Of course, utility companies are itching to sell more power during the low use.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-year-1.969837

It looks like cost of theft is blown way out of proportion as a justification for their rates and war on drugs. Unlike theft of durable goods, they aren't always real cost.

If you tag along a paying customer on a bus without paying the fare and you get off with him, they will claim you "cost" them the fare, but the incremental cost is so small that it is not measurable. It is along the same idea as someone downloading a software cost the developer their asking retail price.

The above is only true if it was completely full and you caused a fare paying customer to get turned away.

"BC Hydro says the theft of electricity — mostly from marijuana grow operations — now costs $100 million every year.

Hydro spokesperson Cindy Verschoor said that's a significant increase from the estimated $30-million revenue loss from electricity theft in 2006, the last time Hydro calculated the loss."

So, who is it really costing if they're only sipping from HYDRO's power during low usage? Especially if they're tapping into medium voltage with their own transproducer without taking away capacity from anyone. I somehow doubt the hydro's paying anyone for the use of water and it's not actually costing them anything for the kWh taken. This is as opposed to plugging into someone's generator and causing the throttle to open up more and consume more gas that they have to pay for.

A convincing tattle meter protest YouTube video that gets a large number of hydro's customer to set the thermostat in the house to switch on at exactly 6PM, switch on every thing in the house for 5 minutes from 6PM to 6:05PM and shift as much of power use to between 5 and 7PM while avoiding use between 10PM and 4AM in will cost them a lot more than all the theft

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-year-1.969837

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdet...han-you-think/
Stop trying to justify theft. If you use a service, you need to pay for it or get permission.Also it's annoying as fuck that canadians call electricity hydro.

sana8410
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September 02, 2014, 02:31:53 PM
 #10

Looking into the matter further, I am seeing a lot of similarities between software piracy and electricity "theft".

When you look at the amount of electricity flowing in those power wires up in the sky, this is what it might look like. Of course, utility companies are itching to sell more power during the low use.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-year-1.969837

It looks like cost of theft is blown way out of proportion as a justification for their rates and war on drugs. Unlike theft of durable goods, they aren't always real cost.

If you tag along a paying customer on a bus without paying the fare and you get off with him, they will claim you "cost" them the fare, but the incremental cost is so small that it is not measurable. It is along the same idea as someone downloading a software cost the developer their asking retail price.

The above is only true if it was completely full and you caused a fare paying customer to get turned away.

"BC Hydro says the theft of electricity — mostly from marijuana grow operations — now costs $100 million every year.

Hydro spokesperson Cindy Verschoor said that's a significant increase from the estimated $30-million revenue loss from electricity theft in 2006, the last time Hydro calculated the loss."

So, who is it really costing if they're only sipping from HYDRO's power during low usage? Especially if they're tapping into medium voltage with their own transproducer without taking away capacity from anyone. I somehow doubt the hydro's paying anyone for the use of water and it's not actually costing them anything for the kWh taken. This is as opposed to plugging into someone's generator and causing the throttle to open up more and consume more gas that they have to pay for.

A convincing tattle meter protest YouTube video that gets a large number of hydro's customer to set the thermostat in the house to switch on at exactly 6PM, switch on every thing in the house for 5 minutes from 6PM to 6:05PM and shift as much of power use to between 5 and 7PM while avoiding use between 10PM and 4AM in will cost them a lot more than all the theft

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-year-1.969837

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdet...han-you-think/
Stop trying to justify theft. If you use a service, you need to pay for it or get permission.Also it's annoying as fuck that canadians call electricity hydro.
I agree. They need to stop presenting what they "would've earned" in what was stolen if they sold at their retail price as a justification when pleading rate hike permissions.

The cost is the difference in what they spent minus what they would have spent if the theft didn't happen at all.

When someone shop lifts something, what the store paid to get the item is the loss. A theft $20 bill from cash register doesn't cost the same as something they retail for $20 but got for $5 from wholesaler.

Pretty much a lot of their power is made from hydroelectric, so that's why they call it "hydro".

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DrG
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September 03, 2014, 07:58:24 AM
 #11

While I do think electric companies are an unregulated malfeasance that involves cronyism with state officials I don't think your bus analogy is a good one.  In you analogy the freeloader would be hitching up his RV to the back end of the bus for a cross country tow.
Electric and utility companies are actually among the most regulated companies in the US. As a result their margins are very thin and have very little room for error when it comes to running their business. Any losses (caused by theft or otherwise) would very much affect their ability to continue staying in business.

They may be regulated but regulation does not equal enforcement.  The securities industry in incredibly regulated and yet this kind of happy horseshit happens:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStreet/story?id=6471863

Look up DWP in Los Angeles - they are embezzling millions of dollars.  It has gone missing and the county and city officials won't investigate it because they all have campaign contributions.

Their margins are thin my but.  They have some of the highest paid administration in the country and pensions not seen in any industries.

SCE/PGE is more or less in bed with CPUC in California.

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