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Author Topic: Is all this manipulation good for Bitcoin?  (Read 2704 times)
cafucafucafu
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September 02, 2014, 12:19:27 AM
 #1

Anyone looking at the charts will see whales pushing the price down again and again. Is this good for Bitcoin's PR?


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September 02, 2014, 12:28:34 AM
 #2

Nope, but that's how it is. It makes the people with money more money.

No market, however huge, is immune from this type of thing.

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September 02, 2014, 01:03:55 AM
 #3

Price going down doesn't mean manipulation.

Bulls have gotten ahead of itself, correction is healthy for bitcoin ecology system.

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September 02, 2014, 01:16:22 AM
 #4

This probably gives newbies a chance to enter the market at attractive valuations.  Smiley


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September 02, 2014, 04:06:12 AM
 #5

Price going down doesn't mean manipulation.

Bulls have gotten ahead of itself, correction is healthy for bitcoin ecology system.
This is true. I do think that the fact that many people often scream manipulation whenever the price of bitcoin falls is a sign that bitcoin does need a small amount of regulation to make sure everyone has a level playing field.

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September 02, 2014, 06:10:16 AM
 #6

Price going down doesn't mean manipulation.

Bulls have gotten ahead of itself, correction is healthy for bitcoin ecology system.
This is true. I do think that the fact that many people often scream manipulation whenever the price of bitcoin falls is a sign that bitcoin does need a small amount of regulation to make sure everyone has a level playing field.
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well yeah, why else would he be calling for regulation :p

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September 02, 2014, 09:56:05 AM
 #7

This probably gives newbies a chance to enter the market at attractive valuations.  Smiley
Yeah it does,I have bought a coin while it went down to 475 today.Might be it could have gone below that??
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September 02, 2014, 12:46:08 PM
 #8

why do you say it is manipulation if the price goes down?
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September 02, 2014, 01:23:36 PM
 #9

This probably gives newbies a chance to enter the market at attractive valuations.  Smiley
Yeah it does,I have bought a coin while it went down to 475 today.Might be it could have gone below that??

You could get it lower than that, if you wait for it to drop.... I was impatient... Last week I snagged one at $493+5 = $498

then when it dropped to $490...i bought another one for $495...only to have the market hit $470.... so Yeah....

Im gonna wait for it tank further or just sit tight!
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September 02, 2014, 02:16:02 PM
 #10

i don't think this is manipulation, the pump to 1200 was manipulation indeed, but now we are retuning to a normal value after that big pump
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September 02, 2014, 03:17:05 PM
 #11

The price stabalizes at the limited range between $470 to $530, is stable, which reflect the true value of BTC. There is nothing to do with manipulation. It is a good time to buy a little bit now.

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September 02, 2014, 03:22:08 PM
 #12

are there any signs there is a manipulation going on though? besides the fact the price is getting lower
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September 02, 2014, 06:07:38 PM
 #13

Anyone looking at the charts will see whales pushing the price down again and again. Is this good for Bitcoin's PR?

So, price going down is manipulation?

Don't seem to hear this kind of accusation when price is going up.
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September 02, 2014, 06:17:42 PM
 #14

No it's not good for bitcoins PR but then again it can be good for those who were late getting into bitcoin when the price goes down to be able to jump in and start investing if they wish. The only people it probably does not help is those who are trying to sell when the price goes down.
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September 02, 2014, 06:36:18 PM
 #15

Anyone looking at the charts will see whales pushing the price down again and again. Is this good for Bitcoin's PR?

If it is going down is good We will be able to buy more cheaper. Everyone will, so there will be way more bitcoin users. Smiley  is just a win-win situation.

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September 02, 2014, 06:45:00 PM
 #16

Manipulation can be good if it is going upward and raise awareness for the local.

It is bad when it is manipulated downward and the local might perceived it as pump and dump.
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September 02, 2014, 09:24:33 PM
 #17


lots of people interested in the market is good
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September 02, 2014, 09:41:47 PM
 #18

are there any signs there is a manipulation going on though? besides the fact the price is getting lower

Yes there are signs.

1, Every time the price get past a certain point, some dude/bot dumps a whole amount on a western exchange (usually bitfinex).
2, The price goes back up slowly (usually because of the Chinese).

Repeat ^


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September 03, 2014, 12:35:32 AM
 #19

Manipulation can be good if it is going upward and raise awareness for the local.

Manipulation is never good. Price manipulation upwards is usually followed by the manipulators cashing out.

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September 03, 2014, 05:58:02 AM
 #20

I won't be spending BTC at a loss (under $1250), so keep manipulating it down and no business will ever get mine.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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September 03, 2014, 07:32:55 AM
 #21

Anyone looking at the charts will see whales pushing the price down again and again. Is this good for Bitcoin's PR?

Thats not manipulation, just some whale sell a lot and some other whale buy a lot.

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September 03, 2014, 09:49:29 AM
 #22

I do think that the fact that many people often scream manipulation whenever the price of bitcoin falls is a sign that bitcoin does need a small amount of regulation to make sure everyone has a level playing field.

I disagree.  The bulk of the screams for manipulation are built on poor reasoning, a weak understanding of volatility and probability, and a cognative bias which attributes anything interesting as having come from some thinking agent (see the intellegent design argument).  This is not new to the community and indeed was more pernicious in the past with the whole "the manipulator" meme.

I'd say nothing needs to be done about this but if the screams are worrying, I'd recommend addressing the actual problem: the demons in peoples' minds.  At the very least, let us spend our energy advertising Bitcoin to professional day-traders, highlighting how some actors are pushing the price around in predictable ways.  Such "manipulators" are easy prey for a seasoned trader and these traders will help to reduce volatility and bring about swift price discovery.  They may even help to drive the amateur speculators and gamblers out of the market (good riddance) leading to even lower volatility.

Regulations will only make things worse as they will certainly raise the barrier to entry for new traders and/or trading platforms and may even make truly decentralised trading systems effectively illegal.  Less choice will only foster abuse and lead to a less level playing field.  The greater costs which must come with regulation would also be most unwelcome.
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September 03, 2014, 04:14:44 PM
 #23

Everything is a scam because money creates more money easily, but at least with BTC we don't have a super mega scam of Ben Bernakle tier.
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September 03, 2014, 06:15:53 PM
 #24

I won't be spending BTC at a loss (under $1250), so keep manipulating it down and no business will ever get mine.

This is a legit point of view. You need to stay calm and watch the market noise. Whales are trying to get feed cheap ass plankton as weak hands get shaken. The disruptive nature of BTC remains and the future is set in stone: BTC wins.

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September 03, 2014, 06:26:56 PM
 #25

Ethereum is the big whale selling for the last few weeks. They are simply cashing out and not "manipulating" the price down.

In fact, they are better off if the price stay high so they can sell more.
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September 03, 2014, 11:48:00 PM
 #26

Ethereum is the big whale selling for the last few weeks. They are simply cashing out and not "manipulating" the price down.

In fact, they are better off if the price stay high so they can sell more.

They did not raise bitcoins to benefit from price movements. They raised bitcoins so that development expenses can be paid. So I guess they have to sell at regular intervals.

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September 04, 2014, 01:25:37 AM
 #27

1. the longer the bitcoin price stays high the better for its core-value and volatility is very welcome for trading.
2. as long the difficulty double every 90 days and the price for a Hash is falling, the btc price level will stay stable on the high level we have now.
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September 04, 2014, 01:37:26 AM
 #28

production of BTC is knowned.
demand of buy, not.

price change over the month.
bitcoin is a real stock system with no interference of manipulation market.

very clear and lean statement. that should make your question obsolate, before you do more wrong questions and get into confusion without a straight thought and aim for conclusion.
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September 04, 2014, 05:56:02 AM
 #29

Investment banking in India is defined as  long-term source of support. In the case of public infrastructure, this may be revenues generated by the project, dedicated tax revenues or general resources of the sponsoring public sector entity
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September 04, 2014, 06:13:24 AM
 #30

Ethereum is the big whale selling for the last few weeks. They are simply cashing out and not "manipulating" the price down.

In fact, they are better off if the price stay high so they can sell more.

They did not raise bitcoins to benefit from price movements. They raised bitcoins so that development expenses can be paid. So I guess they have to sell at regular intervals.
This is true. Also the amount of bitcoin that they sold was very small when compared to the total amount of bitcoin traded on the market during the crash, and IMO had little/nothing to do with the price declines a few weeks ago.

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September 04, 2014, 03:01:45 PM
 #31

What we see now as big manipulations will be seen as market noise in years.
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September 04, 2014, 03:07:48 PM
 #32

So what just happened? price went up from $470 to $495 like in few sec..

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September 04, 2014, 04:04:57 PM
 #33

So what just happened? price went up from $470 to $495 like in few sec..

It lasted for 3 days at $470 levels... A breakout was bound to happen.  Tongue

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September 05, 2014, 08:04:18 PM
 #34

I won't be spending BTC at a loss (under $1250), so keep manipulating it down and no business will ever get mine.

I can dig it and well said.  This is why I'm bullish even right now.  People just don't get this is how weak hands are taken out of the game.  Even though it happens time and time again.  It almost makes me want to scream "hello this is nothing new and we've been here before, open your eyes"!!
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September 05, 2014, 08:22:39 PM
 #35

there is no manipulation currently possible in bitcoin (assuming the exchange doesn't blatantly steal people's money but that's not called manipulation but outright theft).
unlike gold there is no such thing as paper bitcoin, if you sell bitcoin then you sell bitcoin, no way to sell future contracts for bitcoins you don't have to push the price down.

there is nothing wrong with whales selling bitcoin, its their right to do with it whatever they want.
every whale no matter how big will eventually run out of bitcoin to sell and will have to buy/earn them back to sell again.
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September 06, 2014, 01:45:30 AM
 #36

It's a inevitable phase that bitcoin has to go through. If after this BTC is still alive... We'll see the moon
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September 06, 2014, 04:00:19 AM
 #37

I think in future there will be some kind of price control alliance like OPEC in bitcoin world

Those large mining farms and miner producer, they combined together command over 90% of the hash power of the network, thus they could easily make an agreement of never sell below certain price to support the exchange rate, just like OPEC countries control the oil price. This is very important for their business, since if the price going all the way down, their business will be hit hardest

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September 06, 2014, 06:15:43 AM
 #38

I think in future there will be some kind of price control alliance like OPEC in bitcoin world

Those large mining farms and miner producer, they combined together command over 90% of the hash power of the network, thus they could easily make an agreement of never sell below certain price to support the exchange rate, just like OPEC countries control the oil price. This is very important for their business, since if the price going all the way down, their business will be hit hardest
With OPEC and oil, the world generally will consume 90%+ of the oil produced every day. As a result there is very little excess capacity in the oil market.

Bitcoin on the other hand is impossible to "consume" you either hold it or you spend it. When you spend it someone else can do the same.

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September 06, 2014, 07:36:38 AM
 #39

I don't think the decline related to manipulation of price. If the whale pushed down the price, the face value of their BTc holding would be scraped a lot.
The reason is that as more merchants take BTCayment, the more selling the merchants dump BTC payment to cash fiat in the exchange.

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September 06, 2014, 08:44:12 AM
 #40

I think manipulations are inevitable at this early stage. The crypto currency industry is like a Wild West right now. Maybe when more serious investment companies will join the market, any manipulations on a large scale will be difficult.

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September 06, 2014, 03:15:54 PM
 #41

You want free unregulated market or no? then deal with it.
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September 06, 2014, 03:45:10 PM
 #42

I think manipulations are inevitable at this early stage. The crypto currency industry is like a Wild West right now. Maybe when more serious investment companies will join the market, any manipulations on a large scale will be difficult.

The price volatility (maybe caused by market manipulation) is what attracts a lot of people to bitcoin.  Wink

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September 08, 2014, 12:34:59 PM
 #43

You want free unregulated market or no? then deal with it.

just chill with it
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September 08, 2014, 03:18:03 PM
 #44

Its just whales doing their thing, thanks to free market.
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September 08, 2014, 06:44:47 PM
 #45

Just a side effect of an unregulated, free market. Enjoy.
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September 09, 2014, 05:39:16 AM
 #46

Just a side effect of an unregulated, free market. Enjoy.

I am enjoying. Thanks whales!

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September 16, 2014, 07:44:33 AM
 #47

Is the instabilization happening now are caused by this?
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September 18, 2014, 06:12:16 AM
 #48

Is the instabilization happening now are caused by this?

BTC price dropped again today. Should we sell? Or what?
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