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Author Topic: usury = not cool  (Read 4589 times)
Jon
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April 20, 2012, 03:50:06 PM
 #61

"Usury" is your right. If a man is willing to pay the interest on your loan and he does, I see no issue.

Any question is only one of preference. If a state enforces its preference of cheap loans, then I hope it enjoys its stagnant citizenry with little capital to work off of.

The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
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Jon
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April 20, 2012, 03:57:10 PM
 #62

The Objective Standard article illustrates that historically usury was frowned upon by religion, however, was in high demand by everyone, because without it economy doesn't work. This dichotomy is easily resolved when you understand that religion is wrong, and there is no conflict.   In fact, this is very simple to understand: when I lend money, I can not use it for some purpose of my own -- in other words, lending, is a kind of service for those who borrow. For that, they pay a fee. It is only natural for this fee to be a percentage of the sum, since I loose a proportional amount of opportunities when I lend more money out. There really is nothing complicated about it. The article talks about historical perspective, in depth, and I highly recommend reading it.

dogmatic/religious dribble


..efficiency has a cost...



The only "cost" is a lower cost of living. If you hate cheaper homes and cheaper food, then I assume you hate the idea of lower classes living an easier life.

The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
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April 20, 2012, 06:27:55 PM
 #63

I don't want children.

Humans have evolved past basic mating, my friend.

The Communists say, equal labour entitles man to equal enjoyment. No, equal labour does not entitle you to it, but equal enjoyment alone entitles you to equal enjoyment. Enjoy, then you are entitled to enjoyment. But, if you have laboured and let the enjoyment be taken from you, then – ‘it serves you right.’ If you take the enjoyment, it is your right.
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April 20, 2012, 06:38:33 PM
 #64

I don't want children.

Humans have evolved past basic mating, my friend.

OK

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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April 20, 2012, 10:02:52 PM
 #65

-----
...not sure why it seems to be tolerated here.  Please support IBB and
help put these thieves out of business ASAP!

(If there is some service you really need which IBB is not providing, I am
willing to work with them to make it happen, e.g. deposits, at
0% interest of course, chequing, whatever.)
-----

HKUQl1SRTIIVWEIiMfM0REEAWbAionmwSftaVOliUtzm/93Zm6iKklSr9z3oyawZon/LPSYu2tB+R0ViSj6dqD0=


It's "tolerated" here because the "usurers" provide a service that others do not, without coercion. We don't have thugs breaking bones, nor do we force people to borrow from us. Additionally, we let people borrow from us without judgment, which I'd imagine you might have trouble doing.

But if you must barge in and start calling honest people thieves (good way to make friends, by the way), would you care to elaborate on how you'd expect large loans to work in this environment? All moralistic "anti-usury" (i.e., interest) proposals I've seen have skirted the issue with fairly minor semantic differences that seem to miss the point. And the actual point is to act against one's own self-interest, so I'm not sure how you'll make that happen without a vengeful god standing menacingly over everyone, ensuring that rational self-interest is preserved with a threat of violence.

Rational Self Interest is operating within the rational and reasonable confines of the "Mutualist" principle(s). Anything operating above a sort of Mutualism is an attempt to profit at anothers expense thus is a form of irrationality as it creates or sews the seeds of societal conflict(s). In order words making enough money to cover expenses and a bit at the top for ones own survival is justifiable but to abuse the people's trust and amass an enormous degree of wealth while doing little to no work (not producing anything) is an exercise in Selfishness not Self Interest. Of course these are "moral" and "ethical" claims... and such ideals are subjective but I am quite sure an inter-subjective consensus can be formed and those who do not comply ostracized from participating in social and economical exchanges.

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April 21, 2012, 12:35:09 AM
 #66

nedbert9: Ayn Rand would argue with you -- capitalism is already moral (not only a convenience that seems to work). It is moral from basic principles.  And those morals go in contrast to the kind of morals that religion preaches.

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April 24, 2012, 04:46:57 AM
 #67

Um, why are people not borrowing money at 0% and then lending it out to tother people for more?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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April 24, 2012, 05:04:40 AM
 #68

Um, why are people not borrowing money at 0% and then lending it out to tother people for more?

The amount of money available at 0% doesn't really make that worthwhile, assuming we could even get the loans in the first place Smiley
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