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Author Topic: [GLBSE] current hashpower prices  (Read 4901 times)
brendio
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April 16, 2012, 01:08:59 AM
 #21

Interesting that BFSL has the best $/hash?
Not all the assets in the list are exactly comparable though. The bonds should be relatively comparable. Price differences might reflect perceived counterparty risk, although not sure that is the case.

Assets like FPGA.CONTRACT and BFLS represent an ownership share in the underlying hardware, whereas the pure mining bonds do not. Is that worth something, given that hardware could be sold if mining becomes unprofitable?

In contrast, the pure bonds do not incur running costs (as they are factored into the price). The mining companies differ in the way they handle costs, so that needs to be taken into account in any comparison.

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Sukrim
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April 16, 2012, 01:19:15 AM
 #22

There is definitely something needed on GLBSE that shows how many shares really were sold/transfered and how many shares the issuer still has in posession to determine how much money was coming in at an IPO. This is information that might be quite useful to determine if one should invest somewhere or not...

This can usually be seen in the coupon or dividend payments. The list will show the value of each dividend / coupon and the number of bonds / shares that were paid.
I haven't issued dividends on GLBSE 2.0 yet, is there more than 1 way to do so? I could imagine at least "pay every share I don't own" and "pay every share" to be useful depending on the ownership situation. It might be the case that only payments to shares you don't own yourself get logged though...

This would mean that until the 14th of April BITBOND has sold exactly 6000 shares so far. total IPO would then be 5000*0.6 + 1000*0.625 = 3625 BTC divided by 6000 shares = 0.60416666...BTC/share

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April 16, 2012, 03:38:07 AM
 #23

JLP-BMD has 8,001 issues, but only 4,427 shares sold...
So it should look more like 0.7590 MHash/share, giving JLP-BMD a 0.2754 BTC per MHash bid and a 0.3161 BTC per MHash ask. (0.209 BTC Bid/0.2399 BTC Ask)

We also had 2 IPO prices, first we sold 2,205 shares for 0.1 BTC, and now we've sold 2,222 shares for 0.25 BTC, I'm not sure how you want to play with that one...
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April 16, 2012, 04:39:40 AM
 #24

I haven't issued dividends on GLBSE 2.0 yet, is there more than 1 way to do so? I could imagine at least "pay every share I don't own" and "pay every share" to be useful depending on the ownership situation. It might be the case that only payments to shares you don't own yourself get logged though...
There's only an option for "pay every share I don't own", although I've lobbied multiple times for "pay every share" and/or "pay given amount per share". Because of this, I transfer all new bonds to my main account and sell them from there. So it will always look like all bonds were sold, but you can generally determine how many were sold based on the asks.

Not entirely sure this table is a fair comparison: some of these things are bonds, other are shares.

For example : a cognitive share encompasses ownership of a bunch of FPGA cards
*and* its hashing power whereas a PURE share entitles you just to the hashing power
and nothing else.
It almost sounds like you're suggesting a share at a given hashrate is superior to a bond, where as far as I can see it's the opposite (though that depends on what factors exactly you take into consideration, fees and elec costs on one hand and optimization on the other). With shares multiple risks are passed on to investors, such as mining variance, downtime, hardware failures, and single-sided liquidation. With a bond the issuer absorbs all risks, so the price should be higher. The ownership of hardware is moot for most companies because they do not offer trading shares for hardware.

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kakobrekla
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April 16, 2012, 10:19:53 AM
 #25

Agreed. Its almost impossible to count for all the differences. This is just a general overview and one should do research on his own, before investing, but its not far off.

I added this to the first post, so I don't get sued.

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April 16, 2012, 11:26:30 AM
 #26

Quote
We also had 2 IPO prices, first we sold 2,205 shares for 0.1 BTC, and now we've sold 2,222 shares for 0.25 BTC, I'm not sure how you want to play with that one...

Don't take this the wrong way, but as a general principle whenever you say the bolded text you're in fact saying "I've created an accounting nightmare which can't probably be unwound". The whole idea of financial management is to never have to say that.

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April 16, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
 #27

Well, you could state for each operation how many shares were sold in the IPO and how many BTC the operator got for this in total. If they expand (like PUREMINING) the average price for shares @IPO shifts then - but it might still give an overview on how large the operation is and where the starting point for current prices used to be.

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kakobrekla
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April 17, 2012, 12:50:16 AM
 #28

TyGrr pays 100% PPS on 12G. IPO was 3 Bitcoin or $10. Whatever was higher at the time.

The only costs/fee that will be taken is a 5% fee on weekly profit to the CEO (Chaang Noi) for running the operation. Profit will be the value of all coins mined minus electric costs.
(taken from: http://tygrr.com/tygrr-tech/)


Correct me if im wrong, but you have 5% fee beside elec. costs. That more like 95%, if. Smiley

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April 17, 2012, 12:56:16 AM
 #29

TyGrr pays 100% PPS on 12G. IPO was 3 Bitcoin or $10. Whatever was higher at the time.

The only costs/fee that will be taken is a 5% fee on weekly profit to the CEO (Chaang Noi) for running the operation. Profit will be the value of all coins mined minus electric costs.
(taken from: http://tygrr.com/tygrr-tech/)


Correct me if im wrong, but you have 5% fee beside elec. costs. That more like 95%, if. Smiley

Then, there is a small bonus for Namecoin mining. Not sure what that would bring it out at.

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April 17, 2012, 01:05:33 AM
 #30

Thanks, will publish new numbers in a min.

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April 17, 2012, 01:13:47 AM
 #31

To avoid further mess and try to stay relevant, last IPO price is the IPO price.


15.4



16.4
sorted by 1mh cost ask, grouped by type.






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April 17, 2012, 01:16:46 AM
 #32

PureMining is 1 MH/s/bond.

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April 17, 2012, 01:21:04 AM
 #33

PureMining is 1 MH/s/bond.

Correct, i got confused with the new relase of 2000 shares and order of 13 bfl singles. Obviously only 2gh of that is going to shareholders. My bad. Lemme fix it right up.

EDIT: Fixed, pic back up.

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April 17, 2012, 02:30:52 AM
 #34

JLP-BMD has 8,001 issues, but only 4,427 shares sold...
So it should look more like 0.7590 MHash/share, giving JLP-BMD a 0.2754 BTC per MHash bid and a 0.3161 BTC per MHash ask. (0.209 BTC Bid/0.2399 BTC Ask)

We also had 2 IPO prices, first we sold 2,205 shares for 0.1 BTC, and now we've sold 2,222 shares for 0.25 BTC, I'm not sure how you want to play with that one...

Rebumping because it hasn't been fixed yet...
kakobrekla
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April 17, 2012, 02:50:23 AM
 #35


Rebumping because it hasn't been fixed yet...


Sorry, I think this should be it.

To avoid further mess and try to stay relevant, last IPO price is the IPO price.

16.4


Now you are placed above BFLS.

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April 17, 2012, 09:16:03 AM
 #36

Looking at actual dividends you are far from being the best value, don't worry... Wink

Electricity costs seem to be a major factor in your case.

I suggest having a "total dividends per MH/s paid in Q1 2012 (Jan/Feb/Mar)" (only on GLBSE 2.0) and a "total dividends per MH/s paid in Q2 2012 (Apr/May/Jun)" column, this will maybe show the far lower profit of shares vs. bonds better.

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April 17, 2012, 02:57:54 PM
 #37

And this
05:22.50    ( `MBot ) [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ BFLS ] [ 2 @ 1.475 = 2.950000 BTC ]
05:22.52    ( `MBot ) [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ BFLS ] [ 2 @ 1.5 = 3.000000 BTC ]
05:23.48    ( `MBot ) [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ BFLS ] [ 25 @ 2.0 = 50.000000 BTC ]

places COGNITIVE above BFLS. Also notice huge drop on the cognitive bid. Ask didnt move much.

17.4



for tygrr the dividend includes name coin bonus and we already took out the cost of electric. i do not understand the note at the end.

The calculation takes into account your 5% fee (which is essentially 95%pps).
What it doesn't take into account is electricity fees (as your contract on the site says - or did that change?) and any NMC bonuses.

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April 18, 2012, 01:27:12 AM
 #38

I suggest having a "total dividends per MH/s paid in Q1 2012 (Jan/Feb/Mar)" (only on GLBSE 2.0) and a "total dividends per MH/s paid in Q2 2012 (Apr/May/Jun)" column, this will maybe show the far lower profit of shares vs. bonds better.
Even better, though harder to obtain, would be total net earnings  per MH/s for each quarter. This would take into account that some pay out most of their earnings to shareholders, whereas other hold some back for growth (and hopefully increased earnings in the future, reflected in increased share price). If you just count dividends paid, those paying 100 % will look much better than those withholding, say, 50% for reinvestment in more hashing power.

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April 18, 2012, 10:11:41 AM
 #39

This is a number that's nearly impossible to obtain, as some of these bonds and shares are worded quite vaguely (example? BMMO has a fee of "currently" 0.003 BTC/month/share).

I'm in the process of calculating the 100% PPS values for each month, once the second difficulty shift in the end of April (or beginning of May?) is done, I'll calculate "theoretical PPS" values per bond/share according to their payouts.
Please not that there will be some variance, as some pay out only every 2 weeks and others pay out every few days (PUREMINING vs. YABMC), but subsequently compounded calculations for quarter, half and full years over the time should decrease this.

As most were struggling in March with dividends and some didn't exist back there, I don't want to give out preliminary results. Wait for the end of April for that or do the calculations yourself - it's quite interesting (example: in Q1 1 MH/s should have earned you a few satoshis less than 0.0671)!

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April 18, 2012, 07:16:51 PM
 #40

Todays update...

YABMC has sold IPO shares and is trading above that, GIGA looks best bang for the buck for the moment again.

18.4

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