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Author Topic: Introducing Bitbills!  (Read 28914 times)
dirtflower
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May 09, 2011, 06:17:58 PM
 #21

Are you concerned about the legal ramifications of this?  It seems the one reason Liberty Dollar got in trouble was ""Liberty Dollars" are meant to compete with the circulating coinage (currency) of the United States and such competition consequently is a criminal act.[15] "  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

Liberty Dollars were coins and did have some reasonableness to actual currency, which was part of the problem.  However we can debate on the forums all day about the differences but at the end of the day the feds might see this as competing currency.  

On the other hand are they more of a gift card / pre-paid visa card?  These are obviously legal.  

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BCEmporium
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May 09, 2011, 06:37:49 PM
 #22

I don't know... If I've to point something at this project would be the due to paper money to be outdated.
However there's a "visceral need" of many people to can "hold currency", it's a "mental thing". So let everybody be happy
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May 09, 2011, 07:15:43 PM
 #23

Good job!  Now if these could be ordered and paid with Credit Card...  (Only for fixed amounts, subject to availability, extra fees apply)  that would be awesome!

Which leads me to wonder (tangentially), What are those organizations accepting Bitcoin donations planning to do with them?  Sit on them or cash them out?  If they really wanted cash and accept Bitcoin for anonymity (or because its cool) then it seems they have a problem some enterprising businessman could solve.  Seems it would be a nice, wholesome source of Bitcoins (for those not running an exchange) that wish to sell them...    Classic win-win.

Linux, separating the wheat from the shaft.
EvanR
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May 09, 2011, 07:22:13 PM
 #24

Credit cards would introduce way more complexity to the service and condemn llama to waste his time with cc fraud.
EvanR
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May 09, 2011, 07:23:33 PM
 #25

I also want to say that this is one of the most awesome bitcoin projects ever. Watch out for arbitrary rulings against you by the US government or some other government.
kgo
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May 09, 2011, 07:35:23 PM
 #26

This is awesome!  Ordering some as soon as I get home.
Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza
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May 09, 2011, 08:56:05 PM
 #27

Cheesy Ordering as soon as I can!
BitterTea
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May 09, 2011, 09:09:50 PM
 #28

This is so cool, I'm ordering one of each right now!

I only wish you didn't use MyBitcoin. I've had payments eaten by their service before when my transaction did not get broadcast before the payment address was reused. So I'm transferring the amount to MyBitcoin and then paying directly with my account. Sad
Ian Maxwell
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May 09, 2011, 10:07:07 PM
 #29

Ah, you beat me to it!  Smiley  I was going to do something like this, but I was waiting for my semester to end before I threw any real resources at it.

Do you maintain any record of the private keys on the cards you issue? I really hope the answer is no---I'm not worried about you stealing, but I am worried about you being stolen from. (EDIT: I see you answered this, sorry!) If the card has the only copy of the key, bitbills ought to be as secure as Bitcoin itself.

Another question: are you interested in enlisting local distributors? If I can't be the Bank of Bitcoin, being its first employee might be nice.

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bitanarchy
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May 09, 2011, 10:26:26 PM
 #30

Great idea. I just ordered some cards.
As a guarantee of the security of your cards, will you, at some point in time, compensate for bitcoins that were withdrawn from addresses of cards that were not tampered with? :-)
BitterTea
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May 09, 2011, 10:33:37 PM
 #31

Another question: are you interested in enlisting local distributors? If I can't be the Bank of Bitcoin, being its first employee might be nice.

I would definitely be interested in this as well, or perhaps just ordering in bulk. One idea I had was to use the 1 BTC cards as a tip for delivery drivers and such.
Terpie
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May 09, 2011, 10:44:53 PM
 #32

Another question: are you interested in enlisting local distributors? If I can't be the Bank of Bitcoin, being its first employee might be nice.

I would definitely be interested in this as well, or perhaps just ordering in bulk. One idea I had was to use the 1 BTC cards as a tip for delivery drivers and such.

That's actually a fantastic idea. Although the bitbills should contain information on the back telling the holder where they can check the exchange rate in their local currency and where to get where information on how to redeem. From there, these can be used as a form of soft payment and as a marketing tool.
Anonymous
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May 09, 2011, 10:54:50 PM
 #33

Are you concerned about the legal ramifications of this?  It seems the one reason Liberty Dollar got in trouble was ""Liberty Dollars" are meant to compete with the circulating coinage (currency) of the United States and such competition consequently is a criminal act.[15] "  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

Liberty Dollars were coins and did have some reasonableness to actual currency, which was part of the problem.  However we can debate on the forums all day about the differences but at the end of the day the feds might see this as competing currency.  

On the other hand are they more of a gift card / pre-paid visa card?  These are obviously legal.  

Looks like a visa card to me. I see no difference between this and the gift cards I see hanging at the post office.

Would be interesting if you got some cardstock and made an actual birthday card and laminated them so youd need to cut the plastic open to get at the bitcoins. Good way to send bitcoins to your mum.
 
Another idea - bitcoin easter eggs with a usb key inside a chocolate egg. To get to it you have to eat the egg.  Cheesy
kgo
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May 09, 2011, 11:19:59 PM
 #34

I just placed an order and everything went fine, but you'll probably save yourself a lot of email busy work if you (1) email out a confirmation that the deal happened, and (2) Provide an order status page.
llama
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May 09, 2011, 11:29:10 PM
 #35

Great idea. I just ordered some cards.
As a guarantee of the security of your cards, will you, at some point in time, compensate for bitcoins that were withdrawn from addresses of cards that were not tampered with? :-)

In the exceedingly rare case that you open a card and find that it does not have value (or you find a counterfeit), PLEASE let me know; I'd like you to send it to me for investigation. If I believe you (and I probably will), I will reimburse you the value of the card. Also, I have a 50 btc reward out if anybody can demonstrate a method for surreptitiously accessing the private key.

This is so cool, I'm ordering one of each right now!

I only wish you didn't use MyBitcoin. I've had payments eaten by their service before when my transaction did not get broadcast before the payment address was reused. So I'm transferring the amount to MyBitcoin and then paying directly with my account. Sad

I'm considering writing custom payment processing. An order status page / confirmation system is also in the works.
After production scales in the next week or so, I'll begin talking to people who are interested in buying in bulk, selling on commission, reselling, etc. In the slightly longer term, there are also some new products in the works!

UPATE ON SHIPPING:
Thanks to everyone who bought cards. I'm on track to mail the cards out WEDNESDAY. Sorry for the brief delay. Once production scales, cards will be sent more promptly. I'll definitely keep you all updated on your order status!

barbarousrelic
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May 10, 2011, 01:16:17 AM
 #36

Brilliant idea. One question, how durable is the hologram? Is there any possibility of it being accidentally rubbed off during the course of normal circulation?

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
ataranlen
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May 10, 2011, 01:17:40 AM
 #37

Anyone who trys to fake one of these cards in the US is subject to a Felony  Shocked

I'm no Lawyer, but thats what I gather from US code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 > §482-§483

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llama
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May 10, 2011, 01:26:35 AM
 #38

Brilliant idea. One question, how durable is the hologram? Is there any possibility of it being accidentally rubbed off during the course of normal circulation?

The holograms are durable to begin with, and then they're embedded in the plastic, so there's very little concern about them coming off with wear. In our testing, the biggest mode of failure has been cracking of the plastic. We've decided to use a higher-grade plastic that should eliminate this problem.

As a result of the plastic upgrade, the first cards should be in the mail Thursday.

PwrLeveld
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May 10, 2011, 01:27:12 AM
 #39

Anyone who trys to fake one of these cards in the US is subject to a Felony  Shocked

I'm no Lawyer, but thats what I gather from US code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 > §482-§483

Source
But from what I have gathered is that bitcoins can not be a currency and is rather a digital good.
That would make these cards a physical representation of a digital good and thereby not a bank note.
Anonymous
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May 10, 2011, 01:35:16 AM
 #40

Anyone who trys to fake one of these cards in the US is subject to a Felony  Shocked

I'm no Lawyer, but thats what I gather from US code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 25 > §482-§483

Source
But from what I have gathered is that bitcoins can not be a currency and is rather a digital good.
That would make these cards a physical representation of a digital good and thereby not a bank note.

Paypal and Apple seem to think bitcoin is a currency. If you think the US gov wont call it that you are dreaming.
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