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Author Topic: SolidCoin 3.0 (aka MicroCash) will have a daily fee for each address you have.  (Read 7988 times)
CoinHunter
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May 13, 2012, 12:49:36 AM
 #101

This guy is clearly being paid minimal wage because he can't spare less a cent a dayCheesy
It's a matter of principle. Evaporating cryptocurrency isn't a match for non-evaporating real cash imo. I mean, in a system advertising itself as free from a central authority, having someone removing stuff from your wallet like the government directly debiting taxes from your account, or like e-gold slowing draining accounts when they went rogue, it's fairly discrediting I think...

Yes and transaction fees aren't evaporating your cryptocurrency savngs in Bitcoin I guess? Apparently in the future Bitcoin fees are the only way anyone will make money mining. It's something heavily discussed and criticized.

Try SolidCoin or talk with other SolidCoin supporters here SolidCoin Forums
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k9quaint
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May 13, 2012, 12:51:27 AM
 #102

This guy is clearly being paid minimal wage because he can't spare less a cent a dayCheesy
It's a matter of principle. Evaporating cryptocurrency isn't a match for non-evaporating real cash imo. I mean, in a system advertising itself as free from a central authority, having someone removing stuff from your wallet like the government directly debiting taxes from your account, or like e-gold slowing draining accounts when they went rogue, it's fairly discrediting I think...

Yes and transaction fees aren't evaporating your cryptocurrency savngs in Bitcoin I guess? Apparently in the future Bitcoin fees are the only way anyone will make money mining. It's something heavily discussed and criticized.


That is right. Transaction fees are not evaporating my cryptocurrency savings in Bitcoin. I have not transferred them, every single satoshi is still in my possession. That is because I am saving them, not spending them.

Bitcoin is backed by the full faith and credit of YouTube comments.
CoinHunter
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May 13, 2012, 01:17:08 AM
 #103

This guy is clearly being paid minimal wage because he can't spare less a cent a day!  Cheesy
It's a matter of principle. Evaporating cryptocurrency isn't a match for non-evaporating real cash imo. I mean, in a system advertising itself as free from a central authority, having someone removing stuff from your wallet like the government directly debiting taxes from your account, or like e-gold slowing draining accounts when they went rogue, it's fairly discrediting I think...

Yes and transaction fees aren't evaporating your cryptocurrency savngs in Bitcoin I guess? Apparently in the future Bitcoin fees are the only way anyone will make money mining. It's something heavily discussed and criticized.


That is right. Transaction fees are not evaporating my cryptocurrency savings in Bitcoin. I have not transferred them, every single satoshi is still in my possession. That is because I am saving them, not spending them.

With Bitcoin there is no fixed transaction fee, miners can charge whatever they want. So if a miner charges you 100 BTC to send a transaction then you have to pay. Luke-jr is currently doing this with coiledcoin, so it's not a theoretical thing, it's actually happening. Anyone can mine but if you don't have enough power it could take you 5 years to mine a block and not be charged 100 BTC. So if your life savings are less than the transaction fee then it's essentially like losing your life savings if you ever wanted to actually spend them. This isn't true right now in Bitcoin,  but it could potentially happen because transaction fees in Bitcoin are not fixed.

If Bitcoin ever moves to the same protocol as MicroCash (which it probably needs to for performance reasons if its successful) then it will have to move to account fees also. Otherwise it could be spammed to death. So comparing two different protocols, they both have advantages and disadvantages. Obviously some people familiar with how Bitcoin works aren't too comfortable with the idea of daily account fees but there's no other alternative if you want to move to the same account protocol that MicroCash uses.

Try SolidCoin or talk with other SolidCoin supporters here SolidCoin Forums
Syke
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May 13, 2012, 03:12:26 AM
 #104

Yes and transaction fees aren't evaporating your cryptocurrency savngs in Bitcoin I guess?

That is right. Savings means it's not being transferred, therefore no fees. A wallet from 2009 will have exactly the same number of Bitcoins today and forever.

Quote from: CoinHunter
So if a miner charges you 100 BTC to send a transaction then you have to pay.

Wrong again. No miner can force a fee on any transaction. If a transaction doesn't meet a miner's fee requirement, then the transaction will simply be mined by someone else.

Buy & Hold
Etlase2
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May 13, 2012, 05:32:36 AM
 #105

If Bitcoin ever moves to the same protocol as MicroCash (which it probably needs to for performance reasons if its successful) then it will have to move to account fees also. Otherwise it could be spammed to death.

What is it, in your opinion, that is preventing bitcoin from being spammed to death right now? I'd really like to know.

Quote
So comparing two different protocols, they both have advantages and disadvantages. Obviously some people familiar with how Bitcoin works aren't too comfortable with the idea of daily account fees but there's no other alternative if you want to move to the same account protocol that MicroCash uses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

this must be RS posting now because I've never seen one person use so many fallacious arguments so regularly

localhost
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May 13, 2012, 06:16:00 AM
 #106

Kinda looks like a doubling every two years-ish, no?
Yeah, but they're not reaching the stores as fast as they used to... I still can't find any 4TB HD at my usually retailer, and the prices of 3TB HDs are still quite insane.

With Bitcoin there is no fixed transaction fee, miners can charge whatever they want. So if a miner charges you 100 BTC to send a transaction then you have to pay. Luke-jr is currently doing this with coiledcoin, so it's not a theoretical thing, it's actually happening. Anyone can mine but if you don't have enough power it could take you 5 years to mine a block and not be charged 100 BTC. So if your life savings are less than the transaction fee then it's essentially like losing your life savings if you ever wanted to actually spend them. This isn't true right now in Bitcoin,  but it could potentially happen because transaction fees in Bitcoin are not fixed.
Miners are also users. If they can't use their BTC (can't even withdraw them, actually) because the pools they use has fees far too high, they'll switch to others, obviously...

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sd
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May 13, 2012, 08:27:17 AM
 #107

With Bitcoin there is no fixed transaction fee, miners can charge whatever they want. So if a miner charges you 100 BTC to send a transaction then you have to pay. Luke-jr is currently doing this with coiledcoin, so it's not a theoretical thing, it's actually happening. Anyone can mine but if you don't have enough power it could take you 5 years to mine a block and not be charged 100 BTC. So if your life savings are less than the transaction fee then it's essentially like losing your life savings if you ever wanted to actually spend them. This isn't true right now in Bitcoin,  but it could potentially happen because transaction fees in Bitcoin are not fixed.

That's a terrible argument. You are advocating communist style price fixing because one individual may try profiteering. As you may have noticed price fixing didn't work in communist Russia or in communist Czechoslovakia. I have no personal experience of any other countries but suspect it doesn't work so well in North Korea either.

If you went to the shop and they tried to charge you two months wages for a loaf of bread would you pay it or walk out and go to another shop? There are very many miners running FPGA based rigs who have very low power bills and that number is growing every day. These rigs will be profitable many years after GPU mining can no longer pay the electricity bills. Each miner will accept whatever transaction fees they can get.

Coinhunter - You don't understand the economics here. The fixed fees per account are wrong-minded.
Kettenmonster
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May 13, 2012, 10:07:01 AM
 #108

... but it could potentially happen because transaction fees in Bitcoin are not fixed.
That's a terrible argument. ...
Sorry for objection sd, CoinHunter is giving anything but an argument.
Starting a syllogism in realis mood does not validate a reasoning by itself.
Plus you don´t reach him neither with your words nor your ideas.
His plan is the ideal currency, ideal in the sense he finds it perfect.

Now you can start to think about what makes him believe a currency is perfect.

The paining (sic!) is done with the QPainter class inside the paintEvent() method.
(source: my internet)
sd
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May 13, 2012, 10:47:00 AM
 #109

... but it could potentially happen because transaction fees in Bitcoin are not fixed.
That's a terrible argument. ...
Sorry for objection sd, CoinHunter is giving anything but an argument.
Starting a syllogism in realis mood does not validate a reasoning by itself.
Plus you don´t reach him neither with your words nor your ideas.
His plan is the ideal currency, ideal in the sense he finds it perfect.

Now you can start to think about what makes him believe a currency is perfect.


His motivations seem obvious to me, to market a rigged currency as a fair currency in order to fool people into using it. Like most people he simply wants to get rich at the expense of everyone else.

I know I can't change him, but I can educate people who are not asking the right questions of him.

Microcash is a scam. It's possible some people don't know that yet.
k9quaint
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May 13, 2012, 06:26:11 PM
 #110

With Bitcoin there is no fixed transaction fee, miners can charge whatever they want. So if a miner charges you 100 BTC to send a transaction then you have to pay. Luke-jr is currently doing this with coiledcoin, so it's not a theoretical thing, it's actually happening. Anyone can mine but if you don't have enough power it could take you 5 years to mine a block and not be charged 100 BTC. So if your life savings are less than the transaction fee then it's essentially like losing your life savings if you ever wanted to actually spend them. This isn't true right now in Bitcoin,  but it could potentially happen because transaction fees in Bitcoin are not fixed.

If Bitcoin ever moves to the same protocol as MicroCash (which it probably needs to for performance reasons if its successful) then it will have to move to account fees also. Otherwise it could be spammed to death. So comparing two different protocols, they both have advantages and disadvantages. Obviously some people familiar with how Bitcoin works aren't too comfortable with the idea of daily account fees but there's no other alternative if you want to move to the same account protocol that MicroCash uses.

It is happening in CoiledCoin, but not Bitcoin. Why? While you are technically correct, every miner on the planet could collude and charge 100BTC for every transaction. But since the miners are Bitcoin, you would have to say it is not collusion but a decision to enforce a new rule. Unlikely, but possible.

For the sake of argument, let us say that all of a sudden every transaction fee must be higher than 100BTC. As a result fewer people submit transactions to these miners and the transactions requests with fees under 100BTC begin to pile up. Pretty soon any miner (not in the 100BTC cabal) who finds a block stands to gain tremendously if they processed these rejected transactions. Market forces insure that it is worth someone's while to process transctions. While it is technically possible for the entire human race to suddenly no longer desire money, the Bitcoin protocol did not feel it need a special case to handle this.

I hope your 100BTC Myan apocalypse vision comes to pass, I stand to gain tremendously if suddenly every other human on the planet stops valuing money.  Cheesy

Bitcoin is backed by the full faith and credit of YouTube comments.
localhost
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May 13, 2012, 08:51:04 PM
 #111

I hope your 100BTC Myan apocalypse vision comes to pass, I stand to gain tremendously if suddenly every other human on the planet stops valuing money.  Cheesy
Meh, if they don't want money, why would they enforce crazy fees on transactions in the first place? Wink

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k9quaint
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May 13, 2012, 09:11:44 PM
 #112

I hope your 100BTC Myan apocalypse vision comes to pass, I stand to gain tremendously if suddenly every other human on the planet stops valuing money.  Cheesy
Meh, if they don't want money, why would they enforce crazy fees on transactions in the first place? Wink

Perhaps it is a dystopian future where the human race catches a virus that causes them to rage against cryptocurrencies.
But yeah, Coinhunter/RealSolid's entire supposition is flawed.  Wink

Bitcoin is backed by the full faith and credit of YouTube comments.
Kettenmonster
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May 14, 2012, 04:05:13 PM
 #113

...
Microcash is a scam. It's possible some people don't know that yet.

If so, we can safely say: We did our best, didn´t we?  Wink

The paining (sic!) is done with the QPainter class inside the paintEvent() method.
(source: my internet)
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