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Author Topic: [GLBSE] BDK -- LIQUIDATING UNDER NEGATIVE EQUITY PROVISION --  (Read 18605 times)
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May 30, 2012, 12:10:55 PM
 #101

Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.
I was reading this, thinking, maybe I'll give it a look, but then
Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.
thought again.
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May 30, 2012, 12:28:36 PM
 #102

Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.

Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.

If that is the way you speak to someone of Nefario's standing in the community  I wonder what you speak to your customers like. There is no need to descend into a slanging match.



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May 30, 2012, 01:11:40 PM
 #103

Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.

Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.

Not a good way to win customers.

Anyways I own some rebate shares.  Really don't feel like using 2 exchanges oh well

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May 30, 2012, 03:08:29 PM
 #104

Kludge: Maybe it's time you splurged the hefty sum of 20 bitcoin to move over to the one exchange that actually works. By "actually works" I mean charges 1/4 as much per transaction as GLBSE does, is down an infinity percent less and in general has an infinity percent fewer issues, troubles, problems, defects and so forth.

Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records). I will make you precisely one offer to buy the thing from you, so you get to actually make some money for all your effort over the past year, as misguided and mismanaged as it may have been, rather than have to walk away from a worthless wreck (like Zou Thong/Amir&co have with Bitcoinica). If you have half the maturity you should have to be involved in all this you will take this offer seriously, and consider your options carefully. Feel free to make contact via pm or in #bitcoin-otc-eu.

I suspect you'd get a lot more usage of your exchange (I would certainly use it) if you didn't consistently slander Nefario/GLBSE. Regardless of perceived qualifications, most people don't like working with, and excuse my bluntness, jerks.

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May 30, 2012, 03:26:15 PM
 #105

shit
Fuck you and your exchange. Here is a nice example of some fail, in case anyone wants to know how not to make a website:



Do you seriously expect each and every trader to create a json encoded query in order to buy or sell or essentially do anything at all? Points for security though obscurity, anyway.

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May 30, 2012, 04:49:44 PM
 #106

Anyway... BDK & BDK.BND won't require an immediate switch. There will be a soft deadline when Hermes has trade features implemented. Investors are encouraged to verify holdings and switch by that time, but dividends will still be paid normally to GLBSE holders. Since we need to release something in really an alpha stage, investors will likely only get a type of report page for a few days to a week or two. Then we'll have graphs, ability for users to trade on the market, stats on trades, etc. Once we're confident we at least have a competitive product, a hard deadline will be set (aiming for one to two months). This hard deadline is when I'll stop paying GLBSE security-holders. It's my understanding REBATE and Zip.A will also be going this route.

Since it's seeming too expensive to get our securities on GLBSE relisted and an easy-transfer feature implemented for Issuers (and their investors), verification will consist of all security-holders transferring their shares/bonds to the Issuer. In my case, that means I need your bonds and shares transferred to Kluge on GLBSE. Once I verify, I re-issue you shares on Hermes. Please don't do this until we have something functional up for Hermes, or you may not be able to collect dividends next Monday.


For BDK investors: BDK operations will continue normally, though I'm trying to sell off my GLBSE securities somewhat more quickly to ensure my funds & securities aren't "locked," BDK is not having any cashflow problems, and AFAIK, I've come to an agreement with everyone who pre-paid for June BDK shares. All CD-holders will be able to be paid on schedule, and dividends will continue to be paid to those due without issue. Two people wanted to keep their reservation and will be issued shares on Hermes, one person wanted a refund to roll into a larger CD. The offer is open to everyone who reserved BDK shares in June -- just tell me by June 1st and know Hermes shares may not be tradeable for up to three weeks, though dividends will be able to be paid.

Additionally, BDK/IOU will not be held liable for the Kronos bond deal since GLBSE cancelled the Kronos.BND IPO. Both Kronos & IOU/BDK are in agreement on this. Kronos has been delayed by a week or two, the bond will be delayed for a similar amount of time, and since we've had to launch so many services way ahead of schedule, the bond offering will likely be significantly larger than originally planned. However, this did give us a chance to re-do the bond offering, and there were already many actions I took which I regretted. In the future, it'll hopefully be able to pay a fixed amount of interest.


Cheers,

Ben

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May 30, 2012, 05:22:54 PM
 #107

Update added to OP:

"UPDATE: BDK & BDK.BND have been "limited" by GLBSE staff because we planned on launching a competing service in 2-3 months. Since we are no longer able to fund-raise on GLBSE, the June offering is partially canceled in that I can no longer post an open-market order. Those who reserved shares are welcome to either honor their reservation and have shares issued on Hermes, knowing Hermes will likely not have trade functionality for 2-3 weeks, or you can cancel your reservation. I am not accepting new reservations. As well, an alpha version of Hermes will be released within a few days, which all GLBSE-"limited" securities will be transferring to. This includes Zip.A, REBATE, BDK, and BDK.BND.

Dividends will still be paid to GLBSE security-holders while we figure out how we'll handle a transfer. Please ask if you need any updates, clarifications, or have questions. I'm talking to ten people at a time, and forgetting what information I've given and what information I still need to give publicly. Sorry, and thanks for bearing with me.
"

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May 30, 2012, 07:06:49 PM
 #108

Just to be a real pain in the arse, but in the spirit of a) your openness and b) the concerns regarding the security of btc-related ventures, would you consider making your exchange source available (say, on github) for review and possible collaboration?

That would be really nice, almost a must. And don't forget to take a look into Open Transactions as a possible backend, or at least as a great inspiration for functionality and features.
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May 30, 2012, 07:17:24 PM
 #109

^ & ^^ - I'll make the suggestion to JRO when I call him this morning with everything which's happened in the past few hours. Though I've been the most publicly-talkative about this because I was still holding onto hope I could do a June 2nd IPO (there's still a sliver of hope for this, and for doing it on GLBSE) and wanted to prevent panic-sells (*mostly* succeeded, though there've certainly been some panic sells), I'm not majority stake-holder in Hermes nor do I do any dev work. I can pass stuff like this on to the dev team and JRO, but I'm no programmer and though I like the idea of open-source projects (frankly, I don't believe in absolute rights at all, especially not "IP rights"), don't know if it's the best route to go forward - so it's probably very good I'm not the person with the final say on how to go forward.  Wink  Smiley

Appreciate the suggestions. Will provide an update when I have one.

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May 30, 2012, 11:01:43 PM
 #110

There has been no suggestion at all that glbse will "lock" you out of your account. That is simply FUD and not how Nefario operates.




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May 30, 2012, 11:09:07 PM
 #111

There has been no suggestion at all that glbse will "lock" you out of your account. That is simply FUD and not how Nefario operates.
He has already "limited" all securities related to me & JRO without warning and not because of a ToS violation, even though some of those assets have almost no impact on Hermes funding at all. That said, I just put some more money into GLBSE securities, so obviously, I'm not too worried anymore.

For those questioning whether or not there was a ToS violation, this is from #bitcoin-assets:
(10:15:18 AM) DeaDTerra: What's the reason BDK is being limited?
(10:15:19 AM) nefario: the limited assets were being used to fund a competitor to GLBSE
(10:15:28 AM) nefario: AND they were attempting to pinch our customers

After I posted that, I asked Nefario straight-up if he'd lock me out of GLBSE accounts entirely and he said no. I'm satisfied, and apologize for saying that (though it was a real concern at the time). It was just a heat-of-the-moment comment.

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Nefario
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May 31, 2012, 10:26:43 AM
 #112

There has been no suggestion at all that glbse will "lock" you out of your account. That is simply FUD and not how Nefario operates.





This is not the first time Nefario has locked someone out of their account :/



No one has been locked out of their account.

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To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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May 31, 2012, 12:23:30 PM
 #113

There has been no suggestion at all that glbse will "lock" you out of your account. That is simply FUD and not how Nefario operates.





This is not the first time Nefario has locked someone out of their account :/



No one has been locked out of their account.

But it has happened in the past.
You basically announced your GLBSE’s email account password in public, as seen in this message: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75047.msg831580#msg831580

I was the one who immediately reported your post to have it deleted.

PS: I am looking forward to your "100% free market" p2p stock exchange which avoids the pitfalls of centralization. Although I am of the conviction that decentralized markets are inefficient and therefore will not be the use of choice, it is probably easier to accomplish than a p2p currency exchange which has to handle external fiat money.

Apologies for the offtopic, Kluge.

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May 31, 2012, 10:47:00 PM
 #114

    I'll have June profit guesstimates out tomorrow. Still not sure how BDK IPO will be handled. We may get everything resolved by the end of tomorrow, allowing me to make a market sell on GLBSE and issue shares to those who've paid for their reservation, so the IPO will occur as scheduled.

    Another note -- "Monthly Growth" doesn't include the amount received for selling BDK. I haven't spent much time thinking of how to account for both funds raised, and the variable amount due to shareholders when the time comes for a buyback in 8-18 months. The buyback amount due is not included as a liability, nor is the amount I've raised from BDK offerings recorded. I'll have that corrected by next month's report, and go back, fix old I/O reports. This report is not necessarily final and may change by the end of today in ~5 hours (I'm not expecting it to).

May Summary

Monthly Profit - ฿878.65BTC
Income - ฿991.96
  • Loan interest - ฿580.57
  • Gratuities - ฿2
  • Securities Dividends - ฿143.5
  • Equities sold at a gain - ฿256.29
  • Misc - ฿9.6
Outgo - ฿113.31
  • CD/BDK.BND dividends - ฿83.56
  • Misc - ฿29.75

Other Info
Assets - 10,082.98 ($52,330.64)
  • Loans (excl. default)   - ฿1,079.63
  • Equities - ฿8,713.35
  • Cash-on-Hand - ฿290.00
Liabilities - 4,986.21 ($25,878.45)
  • BTC100 Pledge   - ฿10.07
  • IBB Pledge - ฿0.46
  • BTC Deposits - ฿1,952.51
  • USD Deposits - ฿385.36
  • Shareholder Div. - ฿1.91
  • BDK.BND - ฿2,635.90
Equity - ฿5,096.76 ($26,452.19)
Operator Personal Expenditure - ฿9.94
BDK Growth for Month of March (profit - shareholder dividends - operator personal expenditure) - ฿829.17

Full details @ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ao892S4MOoDZdGZSbjJVd1ZTbFVLZE5aRE95bE91NVE&gid=18 (one last note -- Hermes funding will likely be rolled into funding for Kronos as a bond) (quit adding [/list] at the end of my post, SMF) (one post-last note -- The Q2 report in the spreadsheet will start displaying values as soon as I start the June I/O report tomorrow -- I'll use the current BTC per USD value while I don't have a Q2 end number so you can get more stats)

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June 01, 2012, 04:36:52 PM
 #115

BDK's been unrestricted. The IPO will continue as scheduled with a few minor time changes.

The IPO will be at 21:00 UTC tomorrow, on 6/2. Reservations must be paid for by 15:00 UTC tomorrow. Any shares not paid for by 15:00 UTC will be sold at a fixed price of .185BTC/share to anyone interested until 18:00 UTC. Beyond that, the 1,000 shares reserved for IPO (+ any pre-IPO shares not sold) will be offered on the open market as usual @ .185/share. If there are more bids above .185 than shares available, the shares will be sold at the highest bidder. If there are not enough bids @ .185 or above, the shares will be reserved until a later offering.

Currently, there are 700 pre-IPO shares which were decided not to remain reserved. These 700 shares can be reserved for a price of .18/unit.

I'll have profit guesstimates up within a couple hours. It will not be nearly as nice as May (initial eyeballing suggests 100-500BTC monthly profit). Lot of large deposits paid this month, and we're starting off with ~-84BTC profit to pay depositors.


ETA: BDK.BND and all JRO securities are still restricted AFAIK.

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June 01, 2012, 05:27:47 PM
 #116

June 2012 Net Profit Expectations
Optimistic estimate: 400BTC
Reasonable estimate: 100BTC
Pessimistic estimate: -150BTC
(Guesstimated weekly dividend payouts -- June 4th - 0BTC/share, June 11th - .00063BTC/share, June 18th - .00018BTC/share, June 25th - .00036BTC/share)


Week-by-week estimates assuming I somehow lose the ability to find new opportunity
Wk1 (May28-Jun4) - 90BTC income, 155BTC outgo (Assuming negative shareholder dividend, this shareholder "debt" will not rollover)
Wk2 (Jun4-Jun11) - 100BTC income, 30BTC outgo
Wk3 (Jun11-Jun18) - 110BTC income, 90BTC outgo
Wk4 (Jun18-Jun25) - 70BTC income, 30BTC outgo

Total: 370 income, 305 outgo, 65 profit (shareholders will likely receive dividends as if there were 130BTC profit as wk1 losses will not rollover). Additionally, the money I have in Hermes ($20k worth) will likely be rolled over into Kronos debt which may begin paying by the end of the month and would be expected to pay ~50-100BTC if so. Otherwise, July will be a much more profit-favorable month. Seeing these fairly low numbers for June - if you'd like a refund on shares you've prepaid for, or would like to cancel your reservation, I'd be happy to accommodate! Though, the price for BDK will never, in the future, be as cheap as they are now - so if you're going long-term or mid-term, I do believe BDK would still be a great investment.


Cheers,

Ben


ETA: OP updated with shares remaining

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June 01, 2012, 07:04:44 PM
 #117

Only 200 pre-IPO shares remaining for reservation.


Cheers,

Ben

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June 01, 2012, 07:17:28 PM
 #118

Only 200 pre-IPO shares remaining for reservation.


Cheers,

Ben
Aaaand there they go.

Will give a 5h, 1h, and 5m warning tomorrow for IPO. Cheers!

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June 02, 2012, 04:15:38 PM
 #119

The IPO will be at 21:00 UTC tomorrow, on 6/2. Reservations must be paid for by 15:00 UTC tomorrow. Any shares not paid for by 15:00 UTC will be sold at a fixed price of .185BTC/share to anyone interested until 18:00 UTC. Beyond that, the 1,000 shares reserved for IPO (+ any pre-IPO shares not sold) will be offered on the open market as usual @ .185/share. If there are more bids above .185 than shares available, the shares will be sold at the highest bidder. If there are not enough bids @ .185 or above, the shares will be reserved until a later offering.
~5h warning

All pre-IPO shares have been paid for, so only 1k will be sold at IPO time in ~5h.


Cheers,

Ben

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June 02, 2012, 06:48:01 PM
 #120

I have few questions.

IPO: An initial public offering (IPO) or stock market launch, is the first sale of stock by a company to the public.

Why do you keep calling it IPO? You do not offer any stock to investors. To me it looks like you are borrowing money for your operations without giving up a slice of your company. Those are not bonds either, because you are not offering a fixed return from the investment.

Quote
...These shares are non-voting and do not represent equity

Why do you keep calling it "shares"? Shares usually mean share of stock aka slice of a company's equity. Shares of what? Share of outstanding loans with no guaranteed interest nor maturity date? As I understand, you are not required to buy them back so you can just lift your hat and "say thank you". Did I misunderstood something?

Quote
Until after August 2nd, I will be issuing up to 5,000 shares on the second day of each month. Up to 4,000 of those shares can be pre-purchased early. The remaining 1,000 will be sold on the open market through an ask order at the IPO price I determine before-hand. ...

Every time I offer profit shares to the public, equity and (ideally) dividends increase. Each month, this means 4.5% of BDK's profits are more valuable than the previous month's.

 Huh What you are saying is when this "soup" gets watered down every month, a spoonful of it will be worth more? This makes no sense at all.
Every month you ask for more money to pay out dividends to previous owners of "buttons" and make it look like the value of those "buttons" has gone up?

If I have misunderstood how this works, please explain in more detail.
Thank you

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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